Guest guest Posted June 9, 2007 Report Share Posted June 9, 2007 Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn wrote: > > > > > A mystical experience has to be experienced by something separate from > > that experience....It has to be stored within the memory of a > psycho-soma. > > > > " All there is is consciousness " comes up over and over in mystical > > literature. > > > > Actually it is a meaningless concept. > > > > If everything is one thing.....nothing could exist. > > > > The phrase is a conceptual pointing. > > > > It is futile to search within the conceptual overlay for the source of > > that overlay. > > > > Even the word " consciousness " is part of the overlay and therefore > > meaningless. > > > > There a consciousnesing out of which the world dream emerges......but > > it can only see its products.......It can never see itself......... > > > > > > It is what's seeing. > > > > > > > > Ain't that a kick in the ass? > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > There is another perspective here, toombaru. > > I agree that a description of a mystical experience is > something of an oxymoron... indeed, the term > " nondual experience " is an oxymoron as I see it. Even > " bliss " is not legitimately nondual in my view. > To experience bliss is to be invested in a perspective > of false-self. > > That being said, however, there can be writing that > arises that needn't be attributed to a particular > subject or even point-of-view. Some of what is called > mystical writing *could be* such. In such writing > there may be subjects and objects in the language itself, > but that can not be taken to evidence a dualist > thought process behind the writing. > > Given the above, an expression such as " all is consciousness " > could conceivably arise without it being an expression/ > desription of an experience by an experiencer. > > Indeed, I believe one can find such statements made by > Nisargadatta. > > Statements such as " all is consciousness " coming from > one such as Nisargadatta should not be taken as absolute > statements of what-is-the-case in my view. Whatever he > said was always to a particular person or persons, and > was uttered as a teaching tool for consideration in that > particular context. > > It seems rather dubious that there could ever be any > absolute true statements anyway. Afterall, aren't we > just massaging each other's brains with these utterances > we pass back and forth? > > > Bill > Hi Bill, There is within conceptual thought a process in which something is observed and then given a name. For instance " The Law of Gravity " . Objects can be observed to fall time after time when dropped. The path of the planets can be predicted using the " Law of Gravity " . But is not the " Law of Gravity " that causes the objects to fall. In truth the actual cause of the falling in not understood anymore then before it had a name. " Electricity " and " magnetism " are observed and their behavior is measured and given names. This naming process leads to the erroneous conclusion that " gravity " , electricity and magnetism are understood. The same thinking is applied to " consciousness " . And in the statement " all there is is consciousness " is as meaningless as saying " all there is is.....(any-thing)..... " That being said.....there is this recurring unspeakable completeness that seems to wants expression.......but scampers off whenever we attempt to corral it with names. I don't know what it is.........but I know it when I see it. LOL When are you coming to the coast? Patricia has broken wide open. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 10, 2007 Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@> wrote: > > > > > > > > A mystical experience has to be experienced by something separate from > > > that experience....It has to be stored within the memory of a > > psycho-soma. > > > > > > " All there is is consciousness " comes up over and over in mystical > > > literature. > > > > > > Actually it is a meaningless concept. > > > > > > If everything is one thing.....nothing could exist. > > > > > > The phrase is a conceptual pointing. > > > > > > It is futile to search within the conceptual overlay for the source of > > > that overlay. > > > > > > Even the word " consciousness " is part of the overlay and therefore > > > meaningless. > > > > > > There a consciousnesing out of which the world dream emerges......but > > > it can only see its products.......It can never see itself......... > > > > > > > > > It is what's seeing. > > > > > > > > > > > > Ain't that a kick in the ass? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > There is another perspective here, toombaru. > > > > I agree that a description of a mystical experience is > > something of an oxymoron... indeed, the term > > " nondual experience " is an oxymoron as I see it. Even > > " bliss " is not legitimately nondual in my view. > > To experience bliss is to be invested in a perspective > > of false-self. > > > > That being said, however, there can be writing that > > arises that needn't be attributed to a particular > > subject or even point-of-view. Some of what is called > > mystical writing *could be* such. In such writing > > there may be subjects and objects in the language itself, > > but that can not be taken to evidence a dualist > > thought process behind the writing. > > > > Given the above, an expression such as " all is consciousness " > > could conceivably arise without it being an expression/ > > desription of an experience by an experiencer. > > > > Indeed, I believe one can find such statements made by > > Nisargadatta. > > > > Statements such as " all is consciousness " coming from > > one such as Nisargadatta should not be taken as absolute > > statements of what-is-the-case in my view. Whatever he > > said was always to a particular person or persons, and > > was uttered as a teaching tool for consideration in that > > particular context. > > > > It seems rather dubious that there could ever be any > > absolute true statements anyway. Afterall, aren't we > > just massaging each other's brains with these utterances > > we pass back and forth? > > > > > > Bill > > > > Hi Bill, > > > There is within conceptual thought a process in which something is > observed and then given a name. > > For instance " The Law of Gravity " . > > Objects can be observed to fall time after time when dropped. > > The path of the planets can be predicted using the " Law of Gravity " . > > But is not the " Law of Gravity " that causes the objects to fall. > > In truth the actual cause of the falling in not understood anymore > then before it had a name. > > " Electricity " and " magnetism " are observed and their behavior is > measured and given names. > > This naming process leads to the erroneous conclusion that " gravity " , > electricity and magnetism are understood. > > The same thinking is applied to " consciousness " . > > And in the statement " all there is is consciousness " is as meaningless > as saying " all there is is.....(any-thing)..... " oh yeah... but as said it is not making statements that stand as absolute truths that is meaningful, but saying something such as, " All there is is this electricity that moves between us, " (or whatever) in a *particular context* such that the parties are on a " wavelength " with that. > That being said.....there is this recurring unspeakable completeness > that seems to wants expression.......but scampers off whenever we > attempt to corral it with names. > > I don't know what it is.........but I know it when I see it. Yeah... I just saw it ) > > LOL > > > > When are you coming to the coast? Funny you ask, as was just thinking about the possibility today... because I am very much into painting again (had been doing software for most of this last year). > > Patricia has broken wide open. > Mee too > > > toombaru > Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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