Guest guest Posted August 18, 2007 Report Share Posted August 18, 2007 I discovered that... As the Base Reality, I have No Choice....... I AM that I AM. As a fully identified, conditioned individual, I have No Choice....... I am just a predictable biological machine bound to 'react' to external input and stimuli in predictable, consistent manner based on my past conditioning. However, as an individual with Present Awareness of my Reality Beyond the conditioned self - I have a Choice. I have choice to use or not use my conditioning, to serve or not serve my conditioning, to feed or not my conditioning... to simply watch, examine and understand my conditioning... and, to create new 'conditioning'. Because, 'conditioning' is my friend, my assistant, conditioning frees me from having to decide each though, feeling and action at conscious level. And, when a conditioning is no longer useful, I can change it as long as I am Fully Aware of my Reality beyond full conditioned, 'memory based' self. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2007 Report Share Posted August 19, 2007 .. > > > However, as an individual with Present Awareness > of my Reality Beyond the conditioned self - I have a Choice. > > I am sorry but I don't believe you.Nothing human or divine ever has a choice.THINGS HAPPEN. Z Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 20, 2007 Report Share Posted August 20, 2007 Nisargadatta , " tom " <jeusisbuen wrote: > > . > > > > > > However, as an individual with Present Awareness > > of my Reality Beyond the conditioned self - I have a Choice. > > > > > I am sorry but I don't believe you. 'To believe' or 'to not believe'... is your choice. 'To examine' or 'to not examine'... is your choice. 'To test' or 'to not test'... is your choice. 'To consider and honestly inquire' or 'not'... is your choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 20, 2007 Report Share Posted August 20, 2007 Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " <adithya_comming wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " tom " <jeusisbuen@> wrote: > > > > . > > > > > > > > > However, as an individual with Present Awareness > > > of my Reality Beyond the conditioned self - I have a Choice. > > > > > > > > I am sorry but I don't believe you. > > 'To believe' or 'to not believe'... is your choice. > > > 'To examine' or 'to not examine'... is your choice. > > 'To test' or 'to not test'... is your choice. > > 'To consider and honestly inquire' or 'not'... is your choice. if it has beeh chosen that you should belive than do so. if not...not it's not like you have a coice in the matter. ..b b.b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 20, 2007 Report Share Posted August 20, 2007 Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " <adithya_comming wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " tom " <jeusisbuen@> wrote: > > > > . > > > > > > > > > However, as an individual with Present Awareness > > > of my Reality Beyond the conditioned self - I have a Choice. > > > > > > > > I am sorry but I don't believe you. > > 'To believe' or 'to not believe'... is your choice. > > > 'To examine' or 'to not examine'... is your choice. > > 'To test' or 'to not test'... is your choice. > > 'To consider and honestly inquire' or 'not'... is your choice. > You say that to believe or not is my choice--have you ever watched yourself believe somthing?Where is the choice in that? The feeling of belief APPEARS, COMES UP, from nowhere seemingly and that is your believing. Same with the other two items.For heaven's sake, man, look a little! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2007 Report Share Posted August 21, 2007 Nisargadatta , " tom " <jeusisbuen wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " > <adithya_comming@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " tom " <jeusisbuen@> wrote: > > > > > > . > > > > > > > > > > > > However, as an individual with Present Awareness > > > > of my Reality Beyond the conditioned self - I have a Choice. > > > > > > > > > > > I am sorry but I don't believe you. > > > > 'To believe' or 'to not believe'... is your choice. > > > > > > 'To examine' or 'to not examine'... is your choice. > > > > 'To test' or 'to not test'... is your choice. > > > > 'To consider and honestly inquire' or 'not'... is your choice. > > > > You say that to believe or not is my choice--have you ever watched > yourself believe somthing? Yes. > Where is the choice in that? What you mean by 'where'? Choice is at the same place as it alawys is - in me. > The feeling of belief APPEARS, COMES UP, > from nowhere I haven't see 'feeling of belief' come from 'nowhere'. I have seen it mostly come from - 'prior conditioning', from what I have heard, read, experienced. I can " choose " to believe. And, if see a 'belief', I can also " choose " to question it, examine, understand it, see it, inquire into it - and, I have done so many times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2007 Report Share Posted August 21, 2007 Nisargadatta , " tom " <jeusisbuen wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " > <adithya_comming@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " tom " <jeusisbuen@> wrote: > > > > > > . > > > > > > > > > > > > However, as an individual with Present Awareness > > > > of my Reality Beyond the conditioned self - I have a Choice. > > > > > > > > > > > I am sorry but I don't believe you. > > > > 'To believe' or 'to not believe'... is your choice. > > > > > > 'To examine' or 'to not examine'... is your choice. > > > > 'To test' or 'to not test'... is your choice. > > > > 'To consider and honestly inquire' or 'not'... is your choice. > > [...] > For heaven's sake, man, > look a little! Do you think I have a 'choice' to do so ?;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2007 Report Share Posted August 21, 2007 Hey Swami, did you also " choose " your enlightenment? Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " <adithya_comming wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " tom " <jeusisbuen@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " > > <adithya_comming@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " tom " <jeusisbuen@> wrote: > > > > > > > > . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However, as an individual with Present Awareness > > > > > of my Reality Beyond the conditioned self - I have a Choice. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am sorry but I don't believe you. > > > > > > 'To believe' or 'to not believe'... is your choice. > > > > > > > > > 'To examine' or 'to not examine'... is your choice. > > > > > > 'To test' or 'to not test'... is your choice. > > > > > > 'To consider and honestly inquire' or 'not'... is your choice. > > > > > > > You say that to believe or not is my choice--have you ever watched > > yourself believe somthing? > > Yes. > > > > Where is the choice in that? > > What you mean by 'where'? > Choice is at the same place as it alawys is - in me. > > > > > The feeling of belief APPEARS, COMES UP, > > from nowhere > > I haven't see 'feeling of belief' come from 'nowhere'. > I have seen it mostly come from - 'prior conditioning', > from what I have heard, read, experienced. > > I can " choose " to believe. > > And, if see a 'belief', I can also " choose " > to question it, examine, understand it, > see it, inquire into it - and, I have done so many times. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2007 Report Share Posted August 21, 2007 Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge wrote: > > Hey Swami, did you also " choose " your enlightenment? I am not sure if you are addressing me by " Swami " ? If that question if for me. No, I didn't choose my enlightenemnt - at least, not consciously. There are many things in my life and about my life that I haven't chosen consciously. I am not implying an absolute, total choice - I see no possiblity for such a thing. I have seen that everything in nature is bound by its *limits* and NATURE. Regards, ac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2007 Report Share Posted August 21, 2007 > [...] > > > For heaven's sake, man, > > look a little! > > > Do you think I have a 'choice' to do so ?;) > Choice is a funny thing. Either you see though it or you don't.It is not a matter of intelligence.Or education.It happens.Maybe while you are sitting quiet. Z Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2007 Report Share Posted August 21, 2007 Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " <> > You say that to believe or not is my choice--have you ever watched > > yourself believe somthing? > > Yes. > > > > Where is the choice in that? > > What you mean by 'where'? > Choice is at the same place as it alawys is - in me. > > > > > The feeling of belief APPEARS, COMES UP, > > from nowhere > > I haven't see 'feeling of belief' come from 'nowhere'. > I have seen it mostly come from - 'prior conditioning', > from what I have heard, read, experienced. > > I can " choose " to believe. > > And, if see a 'belief', I can also " choose " > to question it, examine, understand it, > see it, inquire into it - and, I have done so many times. > When you say " Prior conditioning " , what is that? Ar ethere certain thought that come up with little tags on them that say, " Prior Contditioning " ? Or are they all just thoughts.Coming on their own with no by your leave from " you " at all. And if you question, examine, understand, or inquire into them, all those acts depend on thoughts that come up just like the the thoughts they are supposed to examine , question, etc. It is all just happening, man, sit back and enjoy the show. Z Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2007 Report Share Posted August 22, 2007 [...] > It is all just happening, man, sit back > and enjoy the show. Z Do I have the 'choice' to just sit back and enjoy the show ?;) Do I have a 'choice' to be different than what I am? Do I have choice to do something different than what I do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2007 Report Share Posted August 22, 2007 In my experience... If I TRULY believed there is 'no choice', 'I' would cease to exist... as a separate mind. The very existence me[ego, 'separate mind'] is based on the belief in choice. If I TRULY didn't believe in Choice, Total Acceptance, Total Forgiveness will naturally result... as it occurs in the 'sleep', when 'I' am not 'awake' to have a 'say'. If I TRULY didn't believe in Choice, I can't hold a grudge, a complain against someone or something because to have a complain, a grudge requires me to believe that they had a 'choice' to be/do/think/act/behave differently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2007 Report Share Posted August 22, 2007 In my experience, to have an 'ego' [separate mind] is to believe in choice. to be angry on someone or something, to hold a grudge, a complain is to believe in choice... now matter how 'subtle', how 'hidden', how 'unconscious' that belief might be. Complete dropping of the belief in choice would include dropping the ability to hold grudges and complains. Forgiveness and peace would become natural, effortless... because the 'lack of peace' requires the presence of two voices - first voice is always present - second voice is based on the belief in choice. The lack of peace is dependent on the belief that the Reality 'could have been' different! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2007 Report Share Posted August 22, 2007 In my experience, only time, I don't believe in choice is... when 'I' am sleeping. While 'I' am asleep, I get dreams - pleasant dreams, scary dreams. Dreams come, dreams go. I enjoy pleasant dreams. I suffer scary dreams - yet, 'I' don't think that I have choice to change them, my only choice is to wake up. When 'I' wake up... belief in choice too Wakes up. When, 'I' wake up, then, too I get dreams [thoughts] - but, now I think I can change them, I think I can do something with them, 'I' make comments on them, 'I' like or dislike them, 'I' want or not want them... When 'I' am awake... I automatically think I have a 'choice' over thoughts [dreams] that I get. Belief in 'I' = Belief in Will = Belief in Choice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2007 Report Share Posted August 22, 2007 Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " <adithya_comming wrote: > > > In my experience, only time, I don't > believe in choice is... when 'I' am sleeping. > > > While 'I' am asleep, I get dreams - > pleasant dreams, scary dreams. > Dreams come, dreams go. > > I enjoy pleasant dreams. > I suffer scary dreams - yet, > 'I' don't think that I have choice > to change them, my only choice is to wake up. > > > > When 'I' wake up... belief in choice too Wakes up. > > When, 'I' wake up, then, too I get > dreams [thoughts] - but, now I think I can > change them, I think I can do > something with them, 'I' make comments > on them, 'I' like or dislike them, 'I' > want or not want them... > > > When 'I' am awake... I automatically think > I have a 'choice' over thoughts [dreams] > that I get. > > > Belief in 'I' = Belief in Will = Belief in Choice > I used to believe that way too. One night about 30 years ago I saw something while sitting. How surprised I was and delighted. Why would anyone be delighted at seeing that thee was no such thing as choice at all? I don't know but that was the feeling.Once you see this you see it again and again. Z Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 23, 2007 Report Share Posted August 23, 2007 Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " <adithya_comming wrote: > >Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@> wrote: >> >> Hey Swami, did you also " choose " your enlightenment? >No, I didn't choose my enlightenemnt Did you and/or do you choose not to become un-enlightened? Stefan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " > <adithya_comming@> wrote: > > > >Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@> wrote: > >> > >> Hey Swami, did you also " choose " your enlightenment? > > >No, I didn't choose my enlightenemnt > > Did you and/or do you choose not to become un-enlightened? > > Stefan > tsk tsk... Who you truly are... is already enlightened. Who you think you are can never be enlightened. Understand this is all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 Nisargadatta , " Bob " <rgcbob wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " > > <adithya_comming@> wrote: > > > > > >Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@> wrote: > > >> > > >> Hey Swami, did you also " choose " your enlightenment? > > > > >No, I didn't choose my enlightenemnt > > > > Did you and/or do you choose not to become un-enlightened? > > > > Stefan > > > tsk tsk... > > Who you truly are... is already enlightened. > Who you think you are can never be enlightened. > Understand this is all. there is no one to 'understand' anything. 'you's of any sort: the really really 'true' you.. and/or.. the 'you' that 'you(whatever the fuck that means) 'believe' 'you' are. both are unreal and actually silly notions of no one. there is no TRUE YOU... not to believe in.. with nothing to believe about.. tsk tsk tsk... ..b b.b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 Well... you know... when SomeBODY becomes enlightened he also may become unenlightened. Anything that happens to SomeBODY comes and goes, dont you think so? S. Nisargadatta , " Bob " <rgcbob wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " > > <adithya_comming@> wrote: > > > > > >Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@> wrote: > > >> > > >> Hey Swami, did you also " choose " your enlightenment? > > > > >No, I didn't choose my enlightenemnt > > > > Did you and/or do you choose not to become un-enlightened? > > > > Stefan > > > tsk tsk... > > Who you truly are... is already enlightened. > Who you think you are can never be enlightened. > Understand this is all. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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