Guest guest Posted September 16, 2007 Report Share Posted September 16, 2007 Nisargadatta , " tom " <jeusisbuen wrote: > > > > > > > Tom, > > > > If I might suggest, don't throw away to quickly science which you > > called in a rather nonchalant way 'more smoke'. Smoke gets in your > > eyes ? > > > > At the moment I am reading the book of Benjamin Libet 'Mind Time' > who > > got in 2003 the Nobel prize in psychology for his researches in > > consciousness which resulted in the realization that there is no > free > > will, no free chocie and no free decision. > > > > Libet was the first prize winner in psychology at all. > > > > More here: > > > > http://www.consciousentities.com/libet.htm > > > > Please read it. I can imagine that it could be interesting for you. > > > > Werner > > > Thanks for the link. I will check it out. I must say however that > scientific proofs for the non-existence of choice will never really > carry conviction.The choice-feeling will override any kind of > intellectual opposition.I am sure you know this.It needs to be seen > suddenly that there is no choice--the way you suddenly see the face > that is hidden among the tree leaves in puzzle drawings--then choice > takes a hit. Z > Yes, Tom, The link I have posted to you is a critical article about Libet's researches. But keep in eye, are we really free and have any choice ? The conclusion Libet drew about his researches roughly is that consciousness is not the master of one's life. The only possibility consiousness does allow is to veto, which means not to go on with an activity one has started but to let it go. In short: Non-doing. This veto or this letting go is not an act of will but rather a " dieing " to and of that activity. Which means the only freedom we have is dieing from moment to moment. Werner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 2007 Report Share Posted September 16, 2007 > Werner says: But keep in eye, are we really free and have any choice ? > Tom says: No we are not free at all on the level on which choice is supposed to operate. I don't feel there is any choice at all. We are not even free to " not do " . Freedom is something that happens and then you are free FROM the delusion that you can do anything.Freedom is not being free To act.Action happe4ns, takes place mysteriously. HOw could it be any other way?Before you can do anything something has to Happen.Otherwise hyou are like the guy who tried to pull himself up by tugging on his own bootstraps. Z > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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