Guest guest Posted November 23, 2007 Report Share Posted November 23, 2007 Hi advaitains, On this list most members including myself are cheaters and liars and are writing their posts as if they are fully realized or enlightened. For example to state that there is no ego is a lie. There is a structure, a bundle of personal reactions based on memory collected during one's life time which are centered aorund and fed by the inherent suvival instinct. One can realize these reactions all day long and undeniably they are obvious and do exist. For this bundle there exist a generic term: Ego. Ok, there is no source called ego which is creating all those reactions but nevertheless those reactions do exist. But to say that there is no ego simply is a lie, a lie based on the hope that by denying they no longer will exist. But that denial is just another reaction which adds to that reactive bundle called ego. So why not stay with what is, honestly seeing what one is, how one is ticking, without escaping into nondual terminology ? By conatantly nondual babbling one more and more falls linto the trap of believing one had understood. But that " understanding " is just intellectual rumination of what one has read. Therefore I would suggest from now on lets call the members of this forum " nondual ruminators " . Werner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2007 Report Share Posted November 23, 2007 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Hi advaitains, > > On this list most members including myself are cheaters and liars and > are writing their posts as if they are fully realized or enlightened. > > For example to state that there is no ego is a lie. There is a > structure, a bundle of personal reactions based on memory collected > during one's life time which are centered aorund and fed by the > inherent suvival instinct. One can realize these reactions all day > long and undeniably they are obvious and do exist. For this bundle > there exist a generic term: Ego. > > Ok, there is no source called ego which is creating all those > reactions but nevertheless those reactions do exist. But to say that > there is no ego simply is a lie, a lie based on the hope that by > denying they no longer will exist. But that denial is just another > reaction which adds to that reactive bundle called ego. > > So why not stay with what is, honestly seeing what one is, how one is > ticking, without escaping into nondual terminology ? By conatantly > nondual babbling one more and more falls linto the trap of believing > one had understood. But that " understanding " is just intellectual > rumination of what one has read. > > Therefore I would suggest from now on lets call the members of this > forum " nondual ruminators " . > > > > Werner my fave nutzoid does it again. without brains OR ego. ROFLMAO! ..b b.b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2007 Report Share Posted November 23, 2007 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Hi advaitains, > > On this list most members including myself are cheaters and liars and > are writing their posts as if they are fully realized or enlightened. > > For example to state that there is no ego is a lie. There is a > structure, a bundle of personal reactions based on memory collected > during one's life time which are centered aorund and fed by the > inherent suvival instinct. One can realize these reactions all day > long and undeniably they are obvious and do exist. For this bundle > there exist a generic term: Ego. > > Ok, there is no source called ego which is creating all those > reactions but nevertheless those reactions do exist. But to say that > there is no ego simply is a lie, a lie based on the hope that by > denying they no longer will exist. But that denial is just another > reaction which adds to that reactive bundle called ego. > > So why not stay with what is, honestly seeing what one is, how one is > ticking, without escaping into nondual terminology ? By conatantly > nondual babbling one more and more falls linto the trap of believing > one had understood. But that " understanding " is just intellectual > rumination of what one has read. > > Therefore I would suggest from now on lets call the members of this > forum " nondual ruminators " . > > > > Werner > A true post from an honest man. Now let us be more practical, is there a way out of the ego? Most mystical writings say YES. As humans with mystical heritage, all religions and whatever else is open for us to examine and contemplate. I am sure that most of us have done that at an earlier period. I came across a post in another group-a sufi group- I will post here because of its relation to the topic we are discussing. v h The post in the sufi group with the title: The Truest Teaching Ever Said " At that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, " Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven? " He called a child, whom he put among them, and said, " Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.... " Matthew 18:1-9 This is the truest answer given in history. It shows that the child is in the Kingdom. Then, how am i -now- different from the child? What have i added to myself in the process of growing up from a child to become a man? Remembering the Experience of the child, would be the key to the Kingdom. The Kingdom was an immediate Experience to the child, HERE AND NOW. We lost site of the kingdom by this process of growing up and we saw the world (dunya) instead. i created the ego (nafs) and the dunya together as PART and PARCEL, that is how i lost the Kingdom. Now, i can start to retrace my steps back, because i now know that once i was there -HERE. No need to wait for death, because i will die where i am. If i am in the Kingdom, i will die in the Kingdom, no harm done, the Kingdom is forever -Here-, But if i die in the nafs/dunya complex, i will remain there -Here also- suffering and deprived. p.s. To me, the Kingdom of Heaven means The Paradise of God (Junnah) or The Face of God, or TRUTH, or Nibana, The Garden of Eden...etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2007 Report Share Posted November 23, 2007 Nisargadatta , " Virgil " <v.halbred wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > wrote: > > > > Hi advaitains, > > > > On this list most members including myself are cheaters and liars > and > > are writing their posts as if they are fully realized or > enlightened. > > > > For example to state that there is no ego is a lie. There is a > > structure, a bundle of personal reactions based on memory > collected > > during one's life time which are centered aorund and fed by the > > inherent suvival instinct. One can realize these reactions all day > > long and undeniably they are obvious and do exist. For this bundle > > there exist a generic term: Ego. > > > > Ok, there is no source called ego which is creating all those > > reactions but nevertheless those reactions do exist. But to say > that > > there is no ego simply is a lie, a lie based on the hope that by > > denying they no longer will exist. But that denial is just another > > reaction which adds to that reactive bundle called ego. > > > > So why not stay with what is, honestly seeing what one is, how one > is > > ticking, without escaping into nondual terminology ? By conatantly > > nondual babbling one more and more falls linto the trap of > believing > > one had understood. But that " understanding " is just intellectual > > rumination of what one has read. > > > > Therefore I would suggest from now on lets call the members of > this > > forum " nondual ruminators " . > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > A true post from an honest man. > > Now let us be more practical, is there a way out of the ego? > > Most mystical writings say YES. > > As humans with mystical heritage, all religions and whatever > > else is open for us to examine and contemplate. > > I am sure that most of us have done that at an earlier > > period. > > I came across a post in another group-a sufi group- I will post here > > because of its relation to the topic we are discussing. > > v h > > The post in the sufi group with the title: > > The Truest Teaching Ever Said > > " At that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, " Who is the > greatest in the kingdom of heaven? " He called a child, whom he put > among them, and said, " Truly I tell you, unless you change and > become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.... " > Matthew 18:1-9 > > > This is the truest answer given in history. > > It shows that the child is in the Kingdom. > > Then, how am i -now- different from the child? > > What have i added to myself in the process of growing up from a child > > to become a man? > > Remembering the Experience of the child, would be the key to the > > Kingdom. > > The Kingdom was an immediate Experience to the child, > > HERE AND NOW. > > We lost site of the kingdom by this process of growing up and we > > saw the world (dunya) instead. > > i created the ego (nafs) and the dunya together as > > PART and PARCEL, that is how i lost the Kingdom. > > Now, i can start to retrace my steps back, because i now know that > > once i was there -HERE. > > No need to wait for death, because i will die where i am. > > If i am in the Kingdom, i will die in the Kingdom, no harm > > done, the Kingdom is forever -Here-, But if i die in the nafs/dunya > > complex, i will remain there -Here also- suffering and deprived. > > > p.s. To me, the Kingdom of Heaven means The Paradise of God (Junnah) > > or The Face of God, or TRUTH, or Nibana, The Garden of Eden...etc > Ok, ok, Virgil, Nice fairy tale of a guy who undoubtedly never existed. More here: http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/ And now let me ask, is your ego gone ? Or are you just dreaming of an egoless state hoping to enter Nirvana ? I promise you, without an " ego " you quickly will end up in a mental asylum as a totally helpless brabbling grown up baby. So the question is not how to get rid of the ego but rather how to live with it without fighting it. Werner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2007 Report Share Posted November 23, 2007 theres nothing that can be done or undone because theres no one to do it..clarity can happen but thats not liberation from separation which is only apparent..we are hopeless puppets..dianaVirgil <v.halbred wrote: Nisargadatta , "Werner Woehr" <wwoehr wrote:>> Hi advaitains,> > On this list most members including myself are cheaters and liars and > are writing their posts as if they are fully realized or enlightened.> > For example to state that there is no ego is a lie. There is a > structure, a bundle of personal reactions based on memory collected > during one's life time which are centered aorund and fed by the > inherent suvival instinct. One can realize these reactions all day > long and undeniably they are obvious and do exist. For this bundle > there exist a generic term: Ego.> > Ok, there is no source called ego which is creating all those > reactions but nevertheless those reactions do exist. But to say that > there is no ego simply is a lie, a lie based on the hope that by > denying they no longer will exist. But that denial is just another > reaction which adds to that reactive bundle called ego.> > So why not stay with what is, honestly seeing what one is, how one is > ticking, without escaping into nondual terminology ? By conatantly > nondual babbling one more and more falls linto the trap of believing > one had understood. But that "understanding" is just intellectual > rumination of what one has read.> > Therefore I would suggest from now on lets call the members of this > forum "nondual ruminators".> > > > Werner>A true post from an honest man.Now let us be more practical, is there a way out of the ego?Most mystical writings say YES.As humans with mystical heritage, all religions and whateverelse is open for us to examine and contemplate.I am sure that most of us have done that at an earlierperiod.I came across a post in another group-a sufi group- I will post here because of its relation to the topic we are discussing.v hThe post in the sufi group with the title:The Truest Teaching Ever Said "At that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, "Who is thegreatest in the kingdom of heaven?" He called a child, whom he putamong them, and said, "Truly I tell you, unless you change andbecome like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven...."Matthew 18:1-9This is the truest answer given in history.It shows that the child is in the Kingdom.Then, how am i -now- different from the child?What have i added to myself in the process of growing up from a childto become a man?Remembering the Experience of the child, would be the key to theKingdom.The Kingdom was an immediate Experience to the child,HERE AND NOW.We lost site of the kingdom by this process of growing up and wesaw the world (dunya) instead.i created the ego (nafs) and the dunya together asPART and PARCEL, that is how i lost the Kingdom.Now, i can start to retrace my steps back, because i now know thatonce i was there -HERE.No need to wait for death, because i will die where i am.If i am in the Kingdom, i will die in the Kingdom, no harmdone, the Kingdom is forever -Here-, But if i die in the nafs/dunyacomplex, i will remain there -Here also- suffering and deprived.p.s. To me, the Kingdom of Heaven means The Paradise of God (Junnah)or The Face of God, or TRUTH, or Nibana, The Garden of Eden...etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2007 Report Share Posted November 23, 2007 Nisargadatta , diana shellam <diana.shellam wrote: > > theres nothing that can be done or undone because theres no one to do it..clarity can happen but thats not liberation from separation which is only apparent..we are hopeless puppets..diana Right, Diana, That is the whole point. Thank, you. Werner > > Virgil <v.halbred wrote: --- In Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > wrote: > > > > Hi advaitains, > > > > On this list most members including myself are cheaters and liars > and > > are writing their posts as if they are fully realized or > enlightened. > > > > For example to state that there is no ego is a lie. There is a > > structure, a bundle of personal reactions based on memory > collected > > during one's life time which are centered aorund and fed by the > > inherent suvival instinct. One can realize these reactions all day > > long and undeniably they are obvious and do exist. For this bundle > > there exist a generic term: Ego. > > > > Ok, there is no source called ego which is creating all those > > reactions but nevertheless those reactions do exist. But to say > that > > there is no ego simply is a lie, a lie based on the hope that by > > denying they no longer will exist. But that denial is just another > > reaction which adds to that reactive bundle called ego. > > > > So why not stay with what is, honestly seeing what one is, how one > is > > ticking, without escaping into nondual terminology ? By conatantly > > nondual babbling one more and more falls linto the trap of > believing > > one had understood. But that " understanding " is just intellectual > > rumination of what one has read. > > > > Therefore I would suggest from now on lets call the members of > this > > forum " nondual ruminators " . > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > A true post from an honest man. > > Now let us be more practical, is there a way out of the ego? > > Most mystical writings say YES. > > As humans with mystical heritage, all religions and whatever > > else is open for us to examine and contemplate. > > I am sure that most of us have done that at an earlier > > period. > > I came across a post in another group-a sufi group- I will post here > > because of its relation to the topic we are discussing. > > v h > > The post in the sufi group with the title: > > The Truest Teaching Ever Said > > " At that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, " Who is the > greatest in the kingdom of heaven? " He called a child, whom he put > among them, and said, " Truly I tell you, unless you change and > become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.... " > Matthew 18:1-9 > > This is the truest answer given in history. > > It shows that the child is in the Kingdom. > > Then, how am i -now- different from the child? > > What have i added to myself in the process of growing up from a child > > to become a man? > > Remembering the Experience of the child, would be the key to the > > Kingdom. > > The Kingdom was an immediate Experience to the child, > > HERE AND NOW. > > We lost site of the kingdom by this process of growing up and we > > saw the world (dunya) instead. > > i created the ego (nafs) and the dunya together as > > PART and PARCEL, that is how i lost the Kingdom. > > Now, i can start to retrace my steps back, because i now know that > > once i was there -HERE. > > No need to wait for death, because i will die where i am. > > If i am in the Kingdom, i will die in the Kingdom, no harm > > done, the Kingdom is forever -Here-, But if i die in the nafs/dunya > > complex, i will remain there -Here also- suffering and deprived. > > p.s. To me, the Kingdom of Heaven means The Paradise of God (Junnah) > > or The Face of God, or TRUTH, or Nibana, The Garden of Eden...etc > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2007 Report Share Posted November 23, 2007 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Virgil " <v.halbred@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Hi advaitains, > > > > > > On this list most members including myself are cheaters and liars > > and > > > are writing their posts as if they are fully realized or > > enlightened. > > > > > > For example to state that there is no ego is a lie. There is a > > > structure, a bundle of personal reactions based on memory > > collected > > > during one's life time which are centered aorund and fed by the > > > inherent suvival instinct. One can realize these reactions all > day > > > long and undeniably they are obvious and do exist. For this > bundle > > > there exist a generic term: Ego. > > > > > > Ok, there is no source called ego which is creating all those > > > reactions but nevertheless those reactions do exist. But to say > > that > > > there is no ego simply is a lie, a lie based on the hope that by > > > denying they no longer will exist. But that denial is just > another > > > reaction which adds to that reactive bundle called ego. > > > > > > So why not stay with what is, honestly seeing what one is, how > one > > is > > > ticking, without escaping into nondual terminology ? By > conatantly > > > nondual babbling one more and more falls linto the trap of > > believing > > > one had understood. But that " understanding " is just intellectual > > > rumination of what one has read. > > > > > > Therefore I would suggest from now on lets call the members of > > this > > > forum " nondual ruminators " . > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > A true post from an honest man. > > > > Now let us be more practical, is there a way out of the ego? > > > > Most mystical writings say YES. > > > > As humans with mystical heritage, all religions and whatever > > > > else is open for us to examine and contemplate. > > > > I am sure that most of us have done that at an earlier > > > > period. > > > > I came across a post in another group-a sufi group- I will post > here > > > > because of its relation to the topic we are discussing. > > > > v h > > > > The post in the sufi group with the title: > > > > The Truest Teaching Ever Said > > > > " At that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, " Who is the > > greatest in the kingdom of heaven? " He called a child, whom he put > > among them, and said, " Truly I tell you, unless you change and > > become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of > heaven.... " > > Matthew 18:1-9 > > > > > > This is the truest answer given in history. > > > > It shows that the child is in the Kingdom. > > > > Then, how am i -now- different from the child? > > > > What have i added to myself in the process of growing up from a > child > > > > to become a man? > > > > Remembering the Experience of the child, would be the key to the > > > > Kingdom. > > > > The Kingdom was an immediate Experience to the child, > > > > HERE AND NOW. > > > > We lost site of the kingdom by this process of growing up and we > > > > saw the world (dunya) instead. > > > > i created the ego (nafs) and the dunya together as > > > > PART and PARCEL, that is how i lost the Kingdom. > > > > Now, i can start to retrace my steps back, because i now know that > > > > once i was there -HERE. > > > > No need to wait for death, because i will die where i am. > > > > If i am in the Kingdom, i will die in the Kingdom, no harm > > > > done, the Kingdom is forever -Here-, But if i die in the nafs/dunya > > > > complex, i will remain there -Here also- suffering and deprived. > > > > > > p.s. To me, the Kingdom of Heaven means The Paradise of God (Junnah) > > > > or The Face of God, or TRUTH, or Nibana, The Garden of Eden...etc > > > > > Ok, ok, Virgil, > > Nice fairy tale of a guy who undoubtedly never existed. More here: > > http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/ > > And now let me ask, is your ego gone ? Or are you just dreaming of an > egoless state hoping to enter Nirvana ? > > I promise you, without an " ego " you quickly will end up in a mental > asylum as a totally helpless brabbling grown up baby. > > So the question is not how to get rid of the ego but rather how to > live with it without fighting it. > > Werner > Ok Wrner Whether jesus existed or not, it is not of my concern, but the statment " he " or whoever said it -to me- is true. As for without the ego one would go to a mental institution, then every man who spoke in mysticism should be hospitalized. starting from, Moses, Ramana, Nis, Wei wu Wei,...etc.! This is rather strange! v h Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2007 Report Share Posted November 23, 2007 Nisargadatta , " Virgil " <v.halbred wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Virgil " <v.halbred@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi advaitains, > > > > > > > > On this list most members including myself are cheaters and > liars > > > and > > > > are writing their posts as if they are fully realized or > > > enlightened. > > > > > > > > For example to state that there is no ego is a lie. There is a > > > > structure, a bundle of personal reactions based on memory > > > collected > > > > during one's life time which are centered aorund and fed by > the > > > > inherent suvival instinct. One can realize these reactions all > > day > > > > long and undeniably they are obvious and do exist. For this > > bundle > > > > there exist a generic term: Ego. > > > > > > > > Ok, there is no source called ego which is creating all those > > > > reactions but nevertheless those reactions do exist. But to > say > > > that > > > > there is no ego simply is a lie, a lie based on the hope that > by > > > > denying they no longer will exist. But that denial is just > > another > > > > reaction which adds to that reactive bundle called ego. > > > > > > > > So why not stay with what is, honestly seeing what one is, how > > one > > > is > > > > ticking, without escaping into nondual terminology ? By > > conatantly > > > > nondual babbling one more and more falls linto the trap of > > > believing > > > > one had understood. But that " understanding " is just > intellectual > > > > rumination of what one has read. > > > > > > > > Therefore I would suggest from now on lets call the members of > > > this > > > > forum " nondual ruminators " . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > A true post from an honest man. > > > > > > Now let us be more practical, is there a way out of the ego? > > > > > > Most mystical writings say YES. > > > > > > As humans with mystical heritage, all religions and whatever > > > > > > else is open for us to examine and contemplate. > > > > > > I am sure that most of us have done that at an earlier > > > > > > period. > > > > > > I came across a post in another group-a sufi group- I will post > > here > > > > > > because of its relation to the topic we are discussing. > > > > > > v h > > > > > > The post in the sufi group with the title: > > > > > > The Truest Teaching Ever Said > > > > > > " At that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, " Who is the > > > greatest in the kingdom of heaven? " He called a child, whom he > put > > > among them, and said, " Truly I tell you, unless you change and > > > become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of > > heaven.... " > > > Matthew 18:1-9 > > > > > > > > > This is the truest answer given in history. > > > > > > It shows that the child is in the Kingdom. > > > > > > Then, how am i -now- different from the child? > > > > > > What have i added to myself in the process of growing up from a > > child > > > > > > to become a man? > > > > > > Remembering the Experience of the child, would be the key to the > > > > > > Kingdom. > > > > > > The Kingdom was an immediate Experience to the child, > > > > > > HERE AND NOW. > > > > > > We lost site of the kingdom by this process of growing up and we > > > > > > saw the world (dunya) instead. > > > > > > i created the ego (nafs) and the dunya together as > > > > > > PART and PARCEL, that is how i lost the Kingdom. > > > > > > Now, i can start to retrace my steps back, because i now know > that > > > > > > once i was there -HERE. > > > > > > No need to wait for death, because i will die where i am. > > > > > > If i am in the Kingdom, i will die in the Kingdom, no harm > > > > > > done, the Kingdom is forever -Here-, But if i die in the > nafs/dunya > > > > > > complex, i will remain there -Here also- suffering and deprived. > > > > > > > > > p.s. To me, the Kingdom of Heaven means The Paradise of God > (Junnah) > > > > > > or The Face of God, or TRUTH, or Nibana, The Garden of Eden...etc > > > > > > > > > Ok, ok, Virgil, > > > > Nice fairy tale of a guy who undoubtedly never existed. More here: > > > > http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/ > > > > And now let me ask, is your ego gone ? Or are you just dreaming of > an > > egoless state hoping to enter Nirvana ? > > > > I promise you, without an " ego " you quickly will end up in a > mental > > asylum as a totally helpless brabbling grown up baby. > > > > So the question is not how to get rid of the ego but rather how to > > live with it without fighting it. > > > > Werner > > > > Ok Wrner > > Whether jesus existed or not, it is not of my concern, but the > > statment " he " or whoever said it -to me- is true. > > As for without the ego one would go to a mental institution, > > then every man who spoke in mysticism should be hospitalized. > > starting from, Moses, Ramana, Nis, Wei wu Wei,...etc.! > > This is rather strange! > > v h > Virgil, I have been into all that you memtioned, also into Sufism. Many years ago I lived for two years in a Sufi Khanka ( Btw, my Sufi name is Hamza ) but I am out of all that spiritual shilt told or written by others, dead or alive. When you are very very simply, then maybe you get near to what you are: A living thing, full of mental crap. Werner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2007 Report Share Posted November 23, 2007 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Hi advaitains, > > On this list most members including myself are cheaters and liars and > are writing their posts as if they are fully realized or enlightened. > > For example to state that there is no ego is a lie. There is a > structure, a bundle of personal reactions based on memory collected > during one's life time which are centered aorund and fed by the > inherent suvival instinct. One can realize these reactions all day > long and undeniably they are obvious and do exist. For this bundle > there exist a generic term: Ego. > > Ok, there is no source called ego which is creating all those > reactions but nevertheless those reactions do exist. But to say that > there is no ego simply is a lie, a lie based on the hope that by > denying they no longer will exist. But that denial is just another > reaction which adds to that reactive bundle called ego. > > So why not stay with what is, honestly seeing what one is, how one is > ticking, without escaping into nondual terminology ? By conatantly > nondual babbling one more and more falls linto the trap of believing > one had understood. But that " understanding " is just intellectual > rumination of what one has read. > > Therefore I would suggest from now on lets call the members of this > forum " nondual ruminators " . > > > > Werner hopeless puppet Werner, " you " have nothing to " suggest " .....and will have never anything to " suggest " ......as being a hopeless puppet.... Marc > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2007 Report Share Posted November 23, 2007 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Virgil " <v.halbred@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Virgil " <v.halbred@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi advaitains, > > > > > > > > > > On this list most members including myself are cheaters and > > liars > > > > and > > > > > are writing their posts as if they are fully realized or > > > > enlightened. > > > > > > > > > > For example to state that there is no ego is a lie. There is > a > > > > > structure, a bundle of personal reactions based on memory > > > > collected > > > > > during one's life time which are centered aorund and fed by > > the > > > > > inherent suvival instinct. One can realize these reactions > all > > > day > > > > > long and undeniably they are obvious and do exist. For this > > > bundle > > > > > there exist a generic term: Ego. > > > > > > > > > > Ok, there is no source called ego which is creating all those > > > > > reactions but nevertheless those reactions do exist. But to > > say > > > > that > > > > > there is no ego simply is a lie, a lie based on the hope that > > by > > > > > denying they no longer will exist. But that denial is just > > > another > > > > > reaction which adds to that reactive bundle called ego. > > > > > > > > > > So why not stay with what is, honestly seeing what one is, > how > > > one > > > > is > > > > > ticking, without escaping into nondual terminology ? By > > > conatantly > > > > > nondual babbling one more and more falls linto the trap of > > > > believing > > > > > one had understood. But that " understanding " is just > > intellectual > > > > > rumination of what one has read. > > > > > > > > > > Therefore I would suggest from now on lets call the members > of > > > > this > > > > > forum " nondual ruminators " . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > A true post from an honest man. > > > > > > > > Now let us be more practical, is there a way out of the ego? > > > > > > > > Most mystical writings say YES. > > > > > > > > As humans with mystical heritage, all religions and whatever > > > > > > > > else is open for us to examine and contemplate. > > > > > > > > I am sure that most of us have done that at an earlier > > > > > > > > period. > > > > > > > > I came across a post in another group-a sufi group- I will post > > > here > > > > > > > > because of its relation to the topic we are discussing. > > > > > > > > v h > > > > > > > > The post in the sufi group with the title: > > > > > > > > The Truest Teaching Ever Said > > > > > > > > " At that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, " Who is the > > > > greatest in the kingdom of heaven? " He called a child, whom he > > put > > > > among them, and said, " Truly I tell you, unless you change and > > > > become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of > > > heaven.... " > > > > Matthew 18:1-9 > > > > > > > > > > > > This is the truest answer given in history. > > > > > > > > It shows that the child is in the Kingdom. > > > > > > > > Then, how am i -now- different from the child? > > > > > > > > What have i added to myself in the process of growing up from a > > > child > > > > > > > > to become a man? > > > > > > > > Remembering the Experience of the child, would be the key to the > > > > > > > > Kingdom. > > > > > > > > The Kingdom was an immediate Experience to the child, > > > > > > > > HERE AND NOW. > > > > > > > > We lost site of the kingdom by this process of growing up and we > > > > > > > > saw the world (dunya) instead. > > > > > > > > i created the ego (nafs) and the dunya together as > > > > > > > > PART and PARCEL, that is how i lost the Kingdom. > > > > > > > > Now, i can start to retrace my steps back, because i now know > > that > > > > > > > > once i was there -HERE. > > > > > > > > No need to wait for death, because i will die where i am. > > > > > > > > If i am in the Kingdom, i will die in the Kingdom, no harm > > > > > > > > done, the Kingdom is forever -Here-, But if i die in the > > nafs/dunya > > > > > > > > complex, i will remain there -Here also- suffering and deprived. > > > > > > > > > > > > p.s. To me, the Kingdom of Heaven means The Paradise of God > > (Junnah) > > > > > > > > or The Face of God, or TRUTH, or Nibana, The Garden of > Eden...etc > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok, ok, Virgil, > > > > > > Nice fairy tale of a guy who undoubtedly never existed. More here: > > > > > > http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/ > > > > > > And now let me ask, is your ego gone ? Or are you just dreaming > of > > an > > > egoless state hoping to enter Nirvana ? > > > > > > I promise you, without an " ego " you quickly will end up in a > > mental > > > asylum as a totally helpless brabbling grown up baby. > > > > > > So the question is not how to get rid of the ego but rather how > to > > > live with it without fighting it. > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > Ok Wrner > > > > Whether jesus existed or not, it is not of my concern, but the > > > > statment " he " or whoever said it -to me- is true. > > > > As for without the ego one would go to a mental institution, > > > > then every man who spoke in mysticism should be hospitalized. > > > > starting from, Moses, Ramana, Nis, Wei wu Wei,...etc.! > > > > This is rather strange! > > > > v h > > > > > Virgil, > > I have been into all that you memtioned, also into Sufism. Many years > ago I lived for two years in a Sufi Khanka ( Btw, my Sufi name is > Hamza ) but I am out of all that spiritual shilt told or written by > others, dead or alive. > > When you are very very simply, then maybe you get near to what you > are: A living thing, full of mental crap. > > > > Werner > Werner Then all you have known after years of search is that what we are: " A living thing, full of mental crap " What a journey! Hope -for your sake- that you are correct, lest you may discover that you are wrong when you cannot do anything about it, I mean when you face death. v h Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2007 Report Share Posted November 23, 2007 what was never born cannot die.. dianaVirgil <v.halbred wrote: Nisargadatta , "Werner Woehr" <wwoehr wrote:>> Nisargadatta , "Virgil" <v.halbred@> wrote:> >> > Nisargadatta , "Werner Woehr" <wwoehr@> > > wrote:> > >> > > Nisargadatta , "Virgil" <v.halbred@> wrote:> > > >> > > > Nisargadatta , "Werner Woehr" <wwoehr@> > > > > wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Hi advaitains,> > > > > > > > > > On this list most members including myself are cheaters and > > liars > > > > and > > > > > are writing their posts as if they are fully realized or > > > > enlightened.> > > > > > > > > > For example to state that there is no ego is a lie. There is > a > > > > > structure, a bundle of personal reactions based on memory > > > > collected > > > > > during one's life time which are centered aorund and fed by > > the > > > > > inherent suvival instinct. One can realize these reactions > all > > > day > > > > > long and undeniably they are obvious and do exist. For this > > > bundle > > > > > there exist a generic term: Ego.> > > > > > > > > > Ok, there is no source called ego which is creating all those > > > > > reactions but nevertheless those reactions do exist. But to > > say > > > > that > > > > > there is no ego simply is a lie, a lie based on the hope that > > by > > > > > denying they no longer will exist. But that denial is just > > > another > > > > > reaction which adds to that reactive bundle called ego.> > > > > > > > > > So why not stay with what is, honestly seeing what one is, > how > > > one > > > > is > > > > > ticking, without escaping into nondual terminology ? By > > > conatantly > > > > > nondual babbling one more and more falls linto the trap of > > > > believing > > > > > one had understood. But that "understanding" is just > > intellectual > > > > > rumination of what one has read.> > > > > > > > > > Therefore I would suggest from now on lets call the members > of > > > > this > > > > > forum "nondual ruminators".> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner> > > > >> > > > > > > > A true post from an honest man.> > > > > > > > Now let us be more practical, is there a way out of the ego?> > > > > > > > Most mystical writings say YES.> > > > > > > > As humans with mystical heritage, all religions and whatever> > > > > > > > else is open for us to examine and contemplate.> > > > > > > > I am sure that most of us have done that at an earlier> > > > > > > > period.> > > > > > > > I came across a post in another group-a sufi group- I will post > > > here > > > > > > > > because of its relation to the topic we are discussing.> > > > > > > > v h> > > > > > > > The post in the sufi group with the title:> > > > > > > > The Truest Teaching Ever Said > > > > > > > > "At that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, "Who is the> > > > greatest in the kingdom of heaven?" He called a child, whom he > > put> > > > among them, and said, "Truly I tell you, unless you change and> > > > become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of > > > heaven...."> > > > Matthew 18:1-9> > > > > > > > > > > > This is the truest answer given in history.> > > > > > > > It shows that the child is in the Kingdom.> > > > > > > > Then, how am i -now- different from the child?> > > > > > > > What have i added to myself in the process of growing up from a > > > child> > > > > > > > to become a man?> > > > > > > > Remembering the Experience of the child, would be the key to the> > > > > > > > Kingdom.> > > > > > > > The Kingdom was an immediate Experience to the child,> > > > > > > > HERE AND NOW.> > > > > > > > We lost site of the kingdom by this process of growing up and we> > > > > > > > saw the world (dunya) instead.> > > > > > > > i created the ego (nafs) and the dunya together as> > > > > > > > PART and PARCEL, that is how i lost the Kingdom.> > > > > > > > Now, i can start to retrace my steps back, because i now know > > that> > > > > > > > once i was there -HERE.> > > > > > > > No need to wait for death, because i will die where i am.> > > > > > > > If i am in the Kingdom, i will die in the Kingdom, no harm> > > > > > > > done, the Kingdom is forever -Here-, But if i die in the > > nafs/dunya> > > > > > > > complex, i will remain there -Here also- suffering and deprived.> > > > > > > > > > > > p.s. To me, the Kingdom of Heaven means The Paradise of God > > (Junnah)> > > > > > > > or The Face of God, or TRUTH, or Nibana, The Garden of > Eden...etc> > > >> > > > > > > > > Ok, ok, Virgil,> > > > > > Nice fairy tale of a guy who undoubtedly never existed. More here:> > > > > > http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/> > > > > > And now let me ask, is your ego gone ? Or are you just dreaming > of > > an > > > egoless state hoping to enter Nirvana ?> > > > > > I promise you, without an "ego" you quickly will end up in a > > mental > > > asylum as a totally helpless brabbling grown up baby.> > > > > > So the question is not how to get rid of the ego but rather how > to > > > live with it without fighting it.> > > > > > Werner> > >> > > > Ok Wrner> > > > Whether jesus existed or not, it is not of my concern, but the > > > > statment "he" or whoever said it -to me- is true.> > > > As for without the ego one would go to a mental institution,> > > > then every man who spoke in mysticism should be hospitalized.> > > > starting from, Moses, Ramana, Nis, Wei wu Wei,...etc.!> > > > This is rather strange!> > > > v h> >> > > Virgil,> > I have been into all that you memtioned, also into Sufism. Many years > ago I lived for two years in a Sufi Khanka ( Btw, my Sufi name is > Hamza ) but I am out of all that spiritual shilt told or written by > others, dead or alive.> > When you are very very simply, then maybe you get near to what you > are: A living thing, full of mental crap.> > > > Werner>WernerThen all you have known after years of search is that whatwe are: "A living thing, full of mental crap"What a journey!Hope -for your sake- that you are correct, lest you may discoverthat you are wrong when you cannot do anything about it, I meanwhen you face death.v h Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2007 Report Share Posted November 23, 2007 Nisargadatta , diana shellam <diana.shellam wrote: > > what was never born cannot die.. diana > > Virgil <v.halbred wrote: --- In Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Virgil " <v.halbred@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Virgil " <v.halbred@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " > <wwoehr@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi advaitains, > > > > > > > > > > > > On this list most members including myself are cheaters > and > > > liars > > > > > and > > > > > > are writing their posts as if they are fully realized or > > > > > enlightened. > > > > > > > > > > > > For example to state that there is no ego is a lie. There > is > > a > > > > > > structure, a bundle of personal reactions based on memory > > > > > collected > > > > > > during one's life time which are centered aorund and fed > by > > > the > > > > > > inherent suvival instinct. One can realize these reactions > > all > > > > day > > > > > > long and undeniably they are obvious and do exist. For > this > > > > bundle > > > > > > there exist a generic term: Ego. > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok, there is no source called ego which is creating all > those > > > > > > reactions but nevertheless those reactions do exist. But > to > > > say > > > > > that > > > > > > there is no ego simply is a lie, a lie based on the hope > that > > > by > > > > > > denying they no longer will exist. But that denial is just > > > > another > > > > > > reaction which adds to that reactive bundle called ego. > > > > > > > > > > > > So why not stay with what is, honestly seeing what one is, > > how > > > > one > > > > > is > > > > > > ticking, without escaping into nondual terminology ? By > > > > conatantly > > > > > > nondual babbling one more and more falls linto the trap of > > > > > believing > > > > > > one had understood. But that " understanding " is just > > > intellectual > > > > > > rumination of what one has read. > > > > > > > > > > > > Therefore I would suggest from now on lets call the > members > > of > > > > > this > > > > > > forum " nondual ruminators " . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A true post from an honest man. > > > > > > > > > > Now let us be more practical, is there a way out of the ego? > > > > > > > > > > Most mystical writings say YES. > > > > > > > > > > As humans with mystical heritage, all religions and whatever > > > > > > > > > > else is open for us to examine and contemplate. > > > > > > > > > > I am sure that most of us have done that at an earlier > > > > > > > > > > period. > > > > > > > > > > I came across a post in another group-a sufi group- I will > post > > > > here > > > > > > > > > > because of its relation to the topic we are discussing. > > > > > > > > > > v h > > > > > > > > > > The post in the sufi group with the title: > > > > > > > > > > The Truest Teaching Ever Said > > > > > > > > > > " At that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, " Who is > the > > > > > greatest in the kingdom of heaven? " He called a child, whom > he > > > put > > > > > among them, and said, " Truly I tell you, unless you change > and > > > > > become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of > > > > heaven.... " > > > > > Matthew 18:1-9 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is the truest answer given in history. > > > > > > > > > > It shows that the child is in the Kingdom. > > > > > > > > > > Then, how am i -now- different from the child? > > > > > > > > > > What have i added to myself in the process of growing up > from a > > > > child > > > > > > > > > > to become a man? > > > > > > > > > > Remembering the Experience of the child, would be the key to > the > > > > > > > > > > Kingdom. > > > > > > > > > > The Kingdom was an immediate Experience to the child, > > > > > > > > > > HERE AND NOW. > > > > > > > > > > We lost site of the kingdom by this process of growing up > and we > > > > > > > > > > saw the world (dunya) instead. > > > > > > > > > > i created the ego (nafs) and the dunya together as > > > > > > > > > > PART and PARCEL, that is how i lost the Kingdom. > > > > > > > > > > Now, i can start to retrace my steps back, because i now > know > > > that > > > > > > > > > > once i was there -HERE. > > > > > > > > > > No need to wait for death, because i will die where i am. > > > > > > > > > > If i am in the Kingdom, i will die in the Kingdom, no harm > > > > > > > > > > done, the Kingdom is forever -Here-, But if i die in the > > > nafs/dunya > > > > > > > > > > complex, i will remain there -Here also- suffering and > deprived. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > p.s. To me, the Kingdom of Heaven means The Paradise of God > > > (Junnah) > > > > > > > > > > or The Face of God, or TRUTH, or Nibana, The Garden of > > Eden...etc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok, ok, Virgil, > > > > > > > > Nice fairy tale of a guy who undoubtedly never existed. More > here: > > > > > > > > http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/ > > > > > > > > And now let me ask, is your ego gone ? Or are you just > dreaming > > of > > > an > > > > egoless state hoping to enter Nirvana ? > > > > > > > > I promise you, without an " ego " you quickly will end up in a > > > mental > > > > asylum as a totally helpless brabbling grown up baby. > > > > > > > > So the question is not how to get rid of the ego but rather > how > > to > > > > live with it without fighting it. > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > Ok Wrner > > > > > > Whether jesus existed or not, it is not of my concern, but the > > > > > > statment " he " or whoever said it -to me- is true. > > > > > > As for without the ego one would go to a mental institution, > > > > > > then every man who spoke in mysticism should be hospitalized. > > > > > > starting from, Moses, Ramana, Nis, Wei wu Wei,...etc.! > > > > > > This is rather strange! > > > > > > v h > > > > > > > > > Virgil, > > > > I have been into all that you memtioned, also into Sufism. Many > years > > ago I lived for two years in a Sufi Khanka ( Btw, my Sufi name is > > Hamza ) but I am out of all that spiritual shilt told or written > by > > others, dead or alive. > > > > When you are very very simply, then maybe you get near to what you > > are: A living thing, full of mental crap. > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > Werner > > Then all you have known after years of search is that what > > we are: " A living thing, full of mental crap " > > What a journey! > > Hope -for your sake- that you are correct, lest you may discover > > that you are wrong when you cannot do anything about it, I mean > > when you face death. > > v h > Hope you can say that when you face death v h Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2007 Report Share Posted November 23, 2007 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Hi advaitains, > > On this list most members including myself are cheaters and liars and > are writing their posts as if they are fully realized or enlightened. > > For example to state that there is no ego is a lie. There is a > structure, a bundle of personal reactions based on memory collected > during one's life time which are centered aorund and fed by the > inherent suvival instinct. One can realize these reactions all day > long and undeniably they are obvious and do exist. For this bundle > there exist a generic term: Ego. > > Ok, there is no source called ego which is creating all those > reactions but nevertheless those reactions do exist. But to say that > there is no ego simply is a lie, a lie based on the hope that by > denying they no longer will exist. But that denial is just another > reaction which adds to that reactive bundle called ego. > > So why not stay with what is, honestly seeing what one is, how one is > ticking, without escaping into nondual terminology ? By conatantly > nondual babbling one more and more falls linto the trap of believing > one had understood. But that " understanding " is just intellectual > rumination of what one has read. > > Therefore I would suggest from now on lets call the members of this > forum " nondual ruminators " . > > > > Werner > Werner, nonduality is nothing more than knowing that we're all prevaricators and prognosticators of the nondual kind;-) However, we do get the chance to readjust our attitudes in every passing moment;-) or not;-) Anna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2007 Report Share Posted November 23, 2007 why do you hope this virgil? dianaVirgil <v.halbred wrote: Nisargadatta , diana shellam <diana.shellam wrote:>> what was never born cannot die.. diana> > Virgil <v.halbred wrote: Nisargadatta , "Werner Woehr" <wwoehr@> > wrote:> >> > Nisargadatta , "Virgil" <v.halbred@> wrote:> > >> > > Nisargadatta , "Werner Woehr" <wwoehr@> > > > wrote:> > > >> > > > Nisargadatta , "Virgil" <v.halbred@> > wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Nisargadatta , "Werner Woehr" > <wwoehr@> > > > > > wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > > Hi advaitains,> > > > > > > > > > > > On this list most members including myself are cheaters > and > > > liars > > > > > and > > > > > > are writing their posts as if they are fully realized or > > > > > enlightened.> > > > > > > > > > > > For example to state that there is no ego is a lie. There > is > > a > > > > > > structure, a bundle of personal reactions based on memory > > > > > collected > > > > > > during one's life time which are centered aorund and fed > by > > > the > > > > > > inherent suvival instinct. One can realize these reactions > > all > > > > day > > > > > > long and undeniably they are obvious and do exist. For > this > > > > bundle > > > > > > there exist a generic term: Ego.> > > > > > > > > > > > Ok, there is no source called ego which is creating all > those > > > > > > reactions but nevertheless those reactions do exist. But > to > > > say > > > > > that > > > > > > there is no ego simply is a lie, a lie based on the hope > that > > > by > > > > > > denying they no longer will exist. But that denial is just > > > > another > > > > > > reaction which adds to that reactive bundle called ego.> > > > > > > > > > > > So why not stay with what is, honestly seeing what one is, > > how > > > > one > > > > > is > > > > > > ticking, without escaping into nondual terminology ? By > > > > conatantly > > > > > > nondual babbling one more and more falls linto the trap of > > > > > believing > > > > > > one had understood. But that "understanding" is just > > > intellectual > > > > > > rumination of what one has read.> > > > > > > > > > > > Therefore I would suggest from now on lets call the > members > > of > > > > > this > > > > > > forum "nondual ruminators".> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > A true post from an honest man.> > > > > > > > > > Now let us be more practical, is there a way out of the ego?> > > > > > > > > > Most mystical writings say YES.> > > > > > > > > > As humans with mystical heritage, all religions and whatever> > > > > > > > > > else is open for us to examine and contemplate.> > > > > > > > > > I am sure that most of us have done that at an earlier> > > > > > > > > > period.> > > > > > > > > > I came across a post in another group-a sufi group- I will > post > > > > here > > > > > > > > > > because of its relation to the topic we are discussing.> > > > > > > > > > v h> > > > > > > > > > The post in the sufi group with the title:> > > > > > > > > > The Truest Teaching Ever Said > > > > > > > > > > "At that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, "Who is > the> > > > > greatest in the kingdom of heaven?" He called a child, whom > he > > > put> > > > > among them, and said, "Truly I tell you, unless you change > and> > > > > become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of > > > > heaven...."> > > > > Matthew 18:1-9> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is the truest answer given in history.> > > > > > > > > > It shows that the child is in the Kingdom.> > > > > > > > > > Then, how am i -now- different from the child?> > > > > > > > > > What have i added to myself in the process of growing up > from a > > > > child> > > > > > > > > > to become a man?> > > > > > > > > > Remembering the Experience of the child, would be the key to > the> > > > > > > > > > Kingdom.> > > > > > > > > > The Kingdom was an immediate Experience to the child,> > > > > > > > > > HERE AND NOW.> > > > > > > > > > We lost site of the kingdom by this process of growing up > and we> > > > > > > > > > saw the world (dunya) instead.> > > > > > > > > > i created the ego (nafs) and the dunya together as> > > > > > > > > > PART and PARCEL, that is how i lost the Kingdom.> > > > > > > > > > Now, i can start to retrace my steps back, because i now > know > > > that> > > > > > > > > > once i was there -HERE.> > > > > > > > > > No need to wait for death, because i will die where i am.> > > > > > > > > > If i am in the Kingdom, i will die in the Kingdom, no harm> > > > > > > > > > done, the Kingdom is forever -Here-, But if i die in the > > > nafs/dunya> > > > > > > > > > complex, i will remain there -Here also- suffering and > deprived.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > p.s. To me, the Kingdom of Heaven means The Paradise of God > > > (Junnah)> > > > > > > > > > or The Face of God, or TRUTH, or Nibana, The Garden of > > Eden...etc> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Ok, ok, Virgil,> > > > > > > > Nice fairy tale of a guy who undoubtedly never existed. More > here:> > > > > > > > http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/> > > > > > > > And now let me ask, is your ego gone ? Or are you just > dreaming > > of > > > an > > > > egoless state hoping to enter Nirvana ?> > > > > > > > I promise you, without an "ego" you quickly will end up in a > > > mental > > > > asylum as a totally helpless brabbling grown up baby.> > > > > > > > So the question is not how to get rid of the ego but rather > how > > to > > > > live with it without fighting it.> > > > > > > > Werner> > > >> > > > > > Ok Wrner> > > > > > Whether jesus existed or not, it is not of my concern, but the > > > > > > statment "he" or whoever said it -to me- is true.> > > > > > As for without the ego one would go to a mental institution,> > > > > > then every man who spoke in mysticism should be hospitalized.> > > > > > starting from, Moses, Ramana, Nis, Wei wu Wei,...etc.!> > > > > > This is rather strange!> > > > > > v h> > >> > > > > > Virgil,> > > > I have been into all that you memtioned, also into Sufism. Many > years > > ago I lived for two years in a Sufi Khanka ( Btw, my Sufi name is > > Hamza ) but I am out of all that spiritual shilt told or written > by > > others, dead or alive.> > > > When you are very very simply, then maybe you get near to what you > > are: A living thing, full of mental crap.> > > > > > > > Werner> >> > Werner> > Then all you have known after years of search is that what> > we are: "A living thing, full of mental crap"> > What a journey!> > Hope -for your sake- that you are correct, lest you may discover> > that you are wrong when you cannot do anything about it, I mean> > when you face death.> > v h>Hope you can say that when you face deathv h Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2007 Report Share Posted November 23, 2007 Nisargadatta , diana shellam <diana.shellam wrote: > > why do you hope this virgil? diana > > Virgil <v.halbred wrote: --- In Nisargadatta , diana shellam > <diana.shellam@> wrote: > > > > what was never born cannot die.. diana > > > > Virgil <v.halbred@> wrote: --- In > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Virgil " <v.halbred@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Virgil " <v.halbred@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " > > <wwoehr@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi advaitains, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On this list most members including myself are cheaters > > and > > > > liars > > > > > > and > > > > > > > are writing their posts as if they are fully realized or > > > > > > enlightened. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For example to state that there is no ego is a lie. > There > > is > > > a > > > > > > > structure, a bundle of personal reactions based on > memory > > > > > > collected > > > > > > > during one's life time which are centered aorund and fed > > by > > > > the > > > > > > > inherent suvival instinct. One can realize these > reactions > > > all > > > > > day > > > > > > > long and undeniably they are obvious and do exist. For > > this > > > > > bundle > > > > > > > there exist a generic term: Ego. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok, there is no source called ego which is creating all > > those > > > > > > > reactions but nevertheless those reactions do exist. But > > to > > > > say > > > > > > that > > > > > > > there is no ego simply is a lie, a lie based on the hope > > that > > > > by > > > > > > > denying they no longer will exist. But that denial is > just > > > > > another > > > > > > > reaction which adds to that reactive bundle called ego. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So why not stay with what is, honestly seeing what one > is, > > > how > > > > > one > > > > > > is > > > > > > > ticking, without escaping into nondual terminology ? By > > > > > conatantly > > > > > > > nondual babbling one more and more falls linto the trap > of > > > > > > believing > > > > > > > one had understood. But that " understanding " is just > > > > intellectual > > > > > > > rumination of what one has read. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Therefore I would suggest from now on lets call the > > members > > > of > > > > > > this > > > > > > > forum " nondual ruminators " . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A true post from an honest man. > > > > > > > > > > > > Now let us be more practical, is there a way out of the > ego? > > > > > > > > > > > > Most mystical writings say YES. > > > > > > > > > > > > As humans with mystical heritage, all religions and > whatever > > > > > > > > > > > > else is open for us to examine and contemplate. > > > > > > > > > > > > I am sure that most of us have done that at an earlier > > > > > > > > > > > > period. > > > > > > > > > > > > I came across a post in another group-a sufi group- I will > > post > > > > > here > > > > > > > > > > > > because of its relation to the topic we are discussing. > > > > > > > > > > > > v h > > > > > > > > > > > > The post in the sufi group with the title: > > > > > > > > > > > > The Truest Teaching Ever Said > > > > > > > > > > > > " At that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, " Who > is > > the > > > > > > greatest in the kingdom of heaven? " He called a child, > whom > > he > > > > put > > > > > > among them, and said, " Truly I tell you, unless you change > > and > > > > > > become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of > > > > > heaven.... " > > > > > > Matthew 18:1-9 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is the truest answer given in history. > > > > > > > > > > > > It shows that the child is in the Kingdom. > > > > > > > > > > > > Then, how am i -now- different from the child? > > > > > > > > > > > > What have i added to myself in the process of growing up > > from a > > > > > child > > > > > > > > > > > > to become a man? > > > > > > > > > > > > Remembering the Experience of the child, would be the key > to > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > Kingdom. > > > > > > > > > > > > The Kingdom was an immediate Experience to the child, > > > > > > > > > > > > HERE AND NOW. > > > > > > > > > > > > We lost site of the kingdom by this process of growing up > > and we > > > > > > > > > > > > saw the world (dunya) instead. > > > > > > > > > > > > i created the ego (nafs) and the dunya together as > > > > > > > > > > > > PART and PARCEL, that is how i lost the Kingdom. > > > > > > > > > > > > Now, i can start to retrace my steps back, because i now > > know > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > once i was there -HERE. > > > > > > > > > > > > No need to wait for death, because i will die where i am. > > > > > > > > > > > > If i am in the Kingdom, i will die in the Kingdom, no harm > > > > > > > > > > > > done, the Kingdom is forever -Here-, But if i die in the > > > > nafs/dunya > > > > > > > > > > > > complex, i will remain there -Here also- suffering and > > deprived. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > p.s. To me, the Kingdom of Heaven means The Paradise of > God > > > > (Junnah) > > > > > > > > > > > > or The Face of God, or TRUTH, or Nibana, The Garden of > > > Eden...etc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok, ok, Virgil, > > > > > > > > > > Nice fairy tale of a guy who undoubtedly never existed. More > > here: > > > > > > > > > > http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/ > > > > > > > > > > And now let me ask, is your ego gone ? Or are you just > > dreaming > > > of > > > > an > > > > > egoless state hoping to enter Nirvana ? > > > > > > > > > > I promise you, without an " ego " you quickly will end up in a > > > > mental > > > > > asylum as a totally helpless brabbling grown up baby. > > > > > > > > > > So the question is not how to get rid of the ego but rather > > how > > > to > > > > > live with it without fighting it. > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok Wrner > > > > > > > > Whether jesus existed or not, it is not of my concern, but the > > > > > > > > statment " he " or whoever said it -to me- is true. > > > > > > > > As for without the ego one would go to a mental institution, > > > > > > > > then every man who spoke in mysticism should be hospitalized. > > > > > > > > starting from, Moses, Ramana, Nis, Wei wu Wei,...etc.! > > > > > > > > This is rather strange! > > > > > > > > v h > > > > > > > > > > > > > Virgil, > > > > > > I have been into all that you memtioned, also into Sufism. Many > > years > > > ago I lived for two years in a Sufi Khanka ( Btw, my Sufi name > is > > > Hamza ) but I am out of all that spiritual shilt told or written > > by > > > others, dead or alive. > > > > > > When you are very very simply, then maybe you get near to what > you > > > are: A living thing, full of mental crap. > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > Werner > > > > Then all you have known after years of search is that what > > > > we are: " A living thing, full of mental crap " > > > > What a journey! > > > > Hope -for your sake- that you are correct, lest you may discover > > > > that you are wrong when you cannot do anything about it, I mean > > > > when you face death. > > > > v h > > > Hope you can say that when you face death > > v h > To hope this for you -or me- so that you -or me- would transcend the experience of dying safely. v h Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2007 Report Share Posted November 23, 2007 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Hi advaitains, > > On this list most members including myself are cheaters and liars and > are writing their posts as if they are fully realized or enlightened. > > For example to state that there is no ego is a lie. There is a > structure, a bundle of personal reactions based on memory collected > during one's life time which are centered aorund and fed by the > inherent suvival instinct. One can realize these reactions all day > long and undeniably they are obvious and do exist. For this bundle > there exist a generic term: Ego. > > Ok, there is no source called ego which is creating all those > reactions but nevertheless those reactions do exist. But to say that > there is no ego simply is a lie, a lie based on the hope that by > denying they no longer will exist. But that denial is just another > reaction which adds to that reactive bundle called ego. > > So why not stay with what is, honestly seeing what one is, how one is > ticking, without escaping into nondual terminology ? By conatantly > nondual babbling one more and more falls linto the trap of believing > one had understood. But that " understanding " is just intellectual > rumination of what one has read. > > Therefore I would suggest from now on lets call the members of this > forum " nondual ruminators " . > > > > Werner > ego exsists as a concept, is that real enough for you? kill it before it believes again or could it be you are too fucking scared? Joe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2007 Report Share Posted November 23, 2007 Nisargadatta , " joe.irrelevant " <joe.irrelevant wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > wrote: > > > > Hi advaitains, > > > > On this list most members including myself are cheaters and liars > and > > are writing their posts as if they are fully realized or > enlightened. > > > > For example to state that there is no ego is a lie. There is a > > structure, a bundle of personal reactions based on memory collected > > during one's life time which are centered aorund and fed by the > > inherent suvival instinct. One can realize these reactions all day > > long and undeniably they are obvious and do exist. For this bundle > > there exist a generic term: Ego. > > > > Ok, there is no source called ego which is creating all those > > reactions but nevertheless those reactions do exist. But to say > that > > there is no ego simply is a lie, a lie based on the hope that by > > denying they no longer will exist. But that denial is just another > > reaction which adds to that reactive bundle called ego. > > > > So why not stay with what is, honestly seeing what one is, how one > is > > ticking, without escaping into nondual terminology ? By conatantly > > nondual babbling one more and more falls linto the trap of > believing > > one had understood. But that " understanding " is just intellectual > > rumination of what one has read. > > > > Therefore I would suggest from now on lets call the members of this > > forum " nondual ruminators " . > > > > > > > > Werner > > > ego exsists as a concept, is that real enough for you? > kill it before it believes again > or could it be you are too fucking scared? > Joe. yes!... concepts like " Werner " ....are as many....as there are drops within an ocean... Marc > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2007 Report Share Posted November 23, 2007 Nisargadatta , " Virgil " <v.halbred wrote: > > Nisargadatta , diana shellam > <diana.shellam@> wrote: > > > > why do you hope this virgil? diana > > > > Virgil <v.halbred@> wrote: --- In > Nisargadatta , diana shellam > > <diana.shellam@> wrote: > > > > > > what was never born cannot die.. diana > > > > > > Virgil <v.halbred@> wrote: --- In > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Virgil " <v.halbred@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " > <wwoehr@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Virgil " <v.halbred@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " > > > <wwoehr@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi advaitains, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On this list most members including myself are > cheaters > > > and > > > > > liars > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > are writing their posts as if they are fully realized > or > > > > > > > enlightened. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For example to state that there is no ego is a lie. > > There > > > is > > > > a > > > > > > > > structure, a bundle of personal reactions based on > > memory > > > > > > > collected > > > > > > > > during one's life time which are centered aorund and > fed > > > by > > > > > the > > > > > > > > inherent suvival instinct. One can realize these > > reactions > > > > all > > > > > > day > > > > > > > > long and undeniably they are obvious and do exist. For > > > this > > > > > > bundle > > > > > > > > there exist a generic term: Ego. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok, there is no source called ego which is creating > all > > > those > > > > > > > > reactions but nevertheless those reactions do exist. > But > > > to > > > > > say > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > there is no ego simply is a lie, a lie based on the > hope > > > that > > > > > by > > > > > > > > denying they no longer will exist. But that denial is > > just > > > > > > another > > > > > > > > reaction which adds to that reactive bundle called ego. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So why not stay with what is, honestly seeing what one > > is, > > > > how > > > > > > one > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > ticking, without escaping into nondual terminology ? > By > > > > > > conatantly > > > > > > > > nondual babbling one more and more falls linto the > trap > > of > > > > > > > believing > > > > > > > > one had understood. But that " understanding " is just > > > > > intellectual > > > > > > > > rumination of what one has read. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Therefore I would suggest from now on lets call the > > > members > > > > of > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > forum " nondual ruminators " . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A true post from an honest man. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now let us be more practical, is there a way out of the > > ego? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Most mystical writings say YES. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As humans with mystical heritage, all religions and > > whatever > > > > > > > > > > > > > > else is open for us to examine and contemplate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am sure that most of us have done that at an earlier > > > > > > > > > > > > > > period. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I came across a post in another group-a sufi group- I > will > > > post > > > > > > here > > > > > > > > > > > > > > because of its relation to the topic we are discussing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > v h > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The post in the sufi group with the title: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Truest Teaching Ever Said > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " At that time the disciples came to Jesus and > asked, " Who > > is > > > the > > > > > > > greatest in the kingdom of heaven? " He called a child, > > whom > > > he > > > > > put > > > > > > > among them, and said, " Truly I tell you, unless you > change > > > and > > > > > > > become like children, you will never enter the kingdom > of > > > > > > heaven.... " > > > > > > > Matthew 18:1-9 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is the truest answer given in history. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It shows that the child is in the Kingdom. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then, how am i -now- different from the child? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What have i added to myself in the process of growing up > > > from a > > > > > > child > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to become a man? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Remembering the Experience of the child, would be the > key > > to > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kingdom. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Kingdom was an immediate Experience to the child, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > HERE AND NOW. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We lost site of the kingdom by this process of growing > up > > > and we > > > > > > > > > > > > > > saw the world (dunya) instead. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i created the ego (nafs) and the dunya together as > > > > > > > > > > > > > > PART and PARCEL, that is how i lost the Kingdom. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now, i can start to retrace my steps back, because i now > > > know > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > once i was there -HERE. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No need to wait for death, because i will die where i am. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If i am in the Kingdom, i will die in the Kingdom, no > harm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > done, the Kingdom is forever -Here-, But if i die in the > > > > > nafs/dunya > > > > > > > > > > > > > > complex, i will remain there -Here also- suffering and > > > deprived. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > p.s. To me, the Kingdom of Heaven means The Paradise of > > God > > > > > (Junnah) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > or The Face of God, or TRUTH, or Nibana, The Garden of > > > > Eden...etc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok, ok, Virgil, > > > > > > > > > > > > Nice fairy tale of a guy who undoubtedly never existed. > More > > > here: > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > And now let me ask, is your ego gone ? Or are you just > > > dreaming > > > > of > > > > > an > > > > > > egoless state hoping to enter Nirvana ? > > > > > > > > > > > > I promise you, without an " ego " you quickly will end up in > a > > > > > mental > > > > > > asylum as a totally helpless brabbling grown up baby. > > > > > > > > > > > > So the question is not how to get rid of the ego but > rather > > > how > > > > to > > > > > > live with it without fighting it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok Wrner > > > > > > > > > > Whether jesus existed or not, it is not of my concern, but > the > > > > > > > > > > statment " he " or whoever said it -to me- is true. > > > > > > > > > > As for without the ego one would go to a mental institution, > > > > > > > > > > then every man who spoke in mysticism should be hospitalized. > > > > > > > > > > starting from, Moses, Ramana, Nis, Wei wu Wei,...etc.! > > > > > > > > > > This is rather strange! > > > > > > > > > > v h > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Virgil, > > > > > > > > I have been into all that you memtioned, also into Sufism. > Many > > > years > > > > ago I lived for two years in a Sufi Khanka ( Btw, my Sufi name > > is > > > > Hamza ) but I am out of all that spiritual shilt told or > written > > > by > > > > others, dead or alive. > > > > > > > > When you are very very simply, then maybe you get near to what > > you > > > > are: A living thing, full of mental crap. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > Then all you have known after years of search is that what > > > > > > we are: " A living thing, full of mental crap " > > > > > > What a journey! > > > > > > Hope -for your sake- that you are correct, lest you may discover > > > > > > that you are wrong when you cannot do anything about it, I mean > > > > > > when you face death. > > > > > > v h > > > > > Hope you can say that when you face death > > > > v h > > > To hope this for you -or me- so that you -or me- would transcend > > the experience of dying safely. > > v h :-) dante alighieri wrote the dinine comedy between 1306 and 1321. virgil is the guide who takes us through the the afterlife. we travel through Inferno..Purgatorio... Paradiso... only THAT virgil said: 'abandon hope all ye who enter here'. can't be the same place... nor... the same virgil.... too much optimism here. too much pessimism there. just boogie on and be cool. it ain't real in any way whatsoever. LOL ..b b.b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2007 Report Share Posted November 23, 2007 Nisargadatta , " joe.irrelevant " <joe.irrelevant wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > wrote: > > > > Hi advaitains, > > > > On this list most members including myself are cheaters and liars > and > > are writing their posts as if they are fully realized or > enlightened. > > > > For example to state that there is no ego is a lie. There is a > > structure, a bundle of personal reactions based on memory collected > > during one's life time which are centered aorund and fed by the > > inherent suvival instinct. One can realize these reactions all day > > long and undeniably they are obvious and do exist. For this bundle > > there exist a generic term: Ego. > > > > Ok, there is no source called ego which is creating all those > > reactions but nevertheless those reactions do exist. But to say > that > > there is no ego simply is a lie, a lie based on the hope that by > > denying they no longer will exist. But that denial is just another > > reaction which adds to that reactive bundle called ego. > > > > So why not stay with what is, honestly seeing what one is, how one > is > > ticking, without escaping into nondual terminology ? By conatantly > > nondual babbling one more and more falls linto the trap of > believing > > one had understood. But that " understanding " is just intellectual > > rumination of what one has read. > > > > Therefore I would suggest from now on lets call the members of this > > forum " nondual ruminators " . > > > > > > > > Werner > > > ego exsists as a concept, is that real enough for you? > kill it before it believes again > or could it be you are too fucking scared? > Joe. B-I-N-G-O B-I-N-G-O B-I-N-G-O! .....and Bingo was his name-o. werner was his game! :-) ..b b.b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2007 Report Share Posted November 23, 2007 Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Virgil " <v.halbred@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , diana shellam > > <diana.shellam@> wrote: > > > > > > why do you hope this virgil? diana > > > > > > Virgil <v.halbred@> wrote: --- In > > Nisargadatta , diana shellam > > > <diana.shellam@> wrote: > > > > > > > > what was never born cannot die.. diana > > > > > > > > Virgil <v.halbred@> wrote: --- In > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Virgil " <v.halbred@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " > > <wwoehr@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Virgil " <v.halbred@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " > > > > <wwoehr@> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi advaitains, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On this list most members including myself are > > cheaters > > > > and > > > > > > liars > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > are writing their posts as if they are fully realized > > or > > > > > > > > enlightened. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For example to state that there is no ego is a lie. > > > There > > > > is > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > structure, a bundle of personal reactions based on > > > memory > > > > > > > > collected > > > > > > > > > during one's life time which are centered aorund and > > fed > > > > by > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > inherent suvival instinct. One can realize these > > > reactions > > > > > all > > > > > > > day > > > > > > > > > long and undeniably they are obvious and do exist. For > > > > this > > > > > > > bundle > > > > > > > > > there exist a generic term: Ego. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok, there is no source called ego which is creating > > all > > > > those > > > > > > > > > reactions but nevertheless those reactions do exist. > > But > > > > to > > > > > > say > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > there is no ego simply is a lie, a lie based on the > > hope > > > > that > > > > > > by > > > > > > > > > denying they no longer will exist. But that denial is > > > just > > > > > > > another > > > > > > > > > reaction which adds to that reactive bundle called ego. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So why not stay with what is, honestly seeing what one > > > is, > > > > > how > > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > ticking, without escaping into nondual terminology ? > > By > > > > > > > conatantly > > > > > > > > > nondual babbling one more and more falls linto the > > trap > > > of > > > > > > > > believing > > > > > > > > > one had understood. But that " understanding " is just > > > > > > intellectual > > > > > > > > > rumination of what one has read. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Therefore I would suggest from now on lets call the > > > > members > > > > > of > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > forum " nondual ruminators " . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A true post from an honest man. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now let us be more practical, is there a way out of the > > > ego? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Most mystical writings say YES. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As humans with mystical heritage, all religions and > > > whatever > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > else is open for us to examine and contemplate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am sure that most of us have done that at an earlier > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > period. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I came across a post in another group-a sufi group- I > > will > > > > post > > > > > > > here > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > because of its relation to the topic we are discussing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > v h > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The post in the sufi group with the title: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Truest Teaching Ever Said > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " At that time the disciples came to Jesus and > > asked, " Who > > > is > > > > the > > > > > > > > greatest in the kingdom of heaven? " He called a child, > > > whom > > > > he > > > > > > put > > > > > > > > among them, and said, " Truly I tell you, unless you > > change > > > > and > > > > > > > > become like children, you will never enter the kingdom > > of > > > > > > > heaven.... " > > > > > > > > Matthew 18:1-9 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is the truest answer given in history. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It shows that the child is in the Kingdom. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then, how am i -now- different from the child? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What have i added to myself in the process of growing up > > > > from a > > > > > > > child > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to become a man? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Remembering the Experience of the child, would be the > > key > > > to > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kingdom. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Kingdom was an immediate Experience to the child, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > HERE AND NOW. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We lost site of the kingdom by this process of growing > > up > > > > and we > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > saw the world (dunya) instead. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i created the ego (nafs) and the dunya together as > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > PART and PARCEL, that is how i lost the Kingdom. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now, i can start to retrace my steps back, because i now > > > > know > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > once i was there -HERE. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No need to wait for death, because i will die where i am. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If i am in the Kingdom, i will die in the Kingdom, no > > harm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > done, the Kingdom is forever -Here-, But if i die in the > > > > > > nafs/dunya > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > complex, i will remain there -Here also- suffering and > > > > deprived. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > p.s. To me, the Kingdom of Heaven means The Paradise of > > > God > > > > > > (Junnah) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > or The Face of God, or TRUTH, or Nibana, The Garden of > > > > > Eden...etc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok, ok, Virgil, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nice fairy tale of a guy who undoubtedly never existed. > > More > > > > here: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And now let me ask, is your ego gone ? Or are you just > > > > dreaming > > > > > of > > > > > > an > > > > > > > egoless state hoping to enter Nirvana ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I promise you, without an " ego " you quickly will end up in > > a > > > > > > mental > > > > > > > asylum as a totally helpless brabbling grown up baby. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So the question is not how to get rid of the ego but > > rather > > > > how > > > > > to > > > > > > > live with it without fighting it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok Wrner > > > > > > > > > > > > Whether jesus existed or not, it is not of my concern, but > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > statment " he " or whoever said it -to me- is true. > > > > > > > > > > > > As for without the ego one would go to a mental institution, > > > > > > > > > > > > then every man who spoke in mysticism should be hospitalized. > > > > > > > > > > > > starting from, Moses, Ramana, Nis, Wei wu Wei,...etc.! > > > > > > > > > > > > This is rather strange! > > > > > > > > > > > > v h > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Virgil, > > > > > > > > > > I have been into all that you memtioned, also into Sufism. > > Many > > > > years > > > > > ago I lived for two years in a Sufi Khanka ( Btw, my Sufi name > > > is > > > > > Hamza ) but I am out of all that spiritual shilt told or > > written > > > > by > > > > > others, dead or alive. > > > > > > > > > > When you are very very simply, then maybe you get near to what > > > you > > > > > are: A living thing, full of mental crap. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > Then all you have known after years of search is that what > > > > > > > > we are: " A living thing, full of mental crap " > > > > > > > > What a journey! > > > > > > > > Hope -for your sake- that you are correct, lest you may discover > > > > > > > > that you are wrong when you cannot do anything about it, I mean > > > > > > > > when you face death. > > > > > > > > v h > > > > > > > Hope you can say that when you face death > > > > > > v h > > > > > To hope this for you -or me- so that you -or me- would transcend > > > > the experience of dying safely. > > > > v h > > > > > :-) > > dante alighieri wrote the dinine comedy between 1306 and 1321. > > virgil is the guide who takes us through the the afterlife. > > we travel through Inferno..Purgatorio... Paradiso... > > only THAT virgil said: > > 'abandon hope all ye who enter here'. > > can't be the same place... > > nor... > > the same virgil.... > > too much optimism here. > > too much pessimism there. > > just boogie on and be cool. > > it ain't real in any way whatsoever. > > LOL > > .b b.b. > If it is six feet down, then let us celebrate and have a double scotch! v h Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2007 Report Share Posted November 23, 2007 Nisargadatta , " Virgil " <v.halbred wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " > <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Virgil " <v.halbred@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , diana shellam > > > <diana.shellam@> wrote: > > > > > > > > why do you hope this virgil? diana > > > > > > > > Virgil <v.halbred@> wrote: --- In > > > Nisargadatta , diana shellam > > > > <diana.shellam@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > what was never born cannot die.. diana > > > > > > > > > > Virgil <v.halbred@> wrote: --- In > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Virgil " <v.halbred@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " > > > <wwoehr@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Virgil " > <v.halbred@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " > > > > > <wwoehr@> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi advaitains, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On this list most members including myself are > > > cheaters > > > > > and > > > > > > > liars > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > are writing their posts as if they are fully > realized > > > or > > > > > > > > > enlightened. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For example to state that there is no ego is a > lie. > > > > There > > > > > is > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > structure, a bundle of personal reactions based on > > > > memory > > > > > > > > > collected > > > > > > > > > > during one's life time which are centered aorund > and > > > fed > > > > > by > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > inherent suvival instinct. One can realize these > > > > reactions > > > > > > all > > > > > > > > day > > > > > > > > > > long and undeniably they are obvious and do exist. > For > > > > > this > > > > > > > > bundle > > > > > > > > > > there exist a generic term: Ego. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok, there is no source called ego which is > creating > > > all > > > > > those > > > > > > > > > > reactions but nevertheless those reactions do > exist. > > > But > > > > > to > > > > > > > say > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > there is no ego simply is a lie, a lie based on > the > > > hope > > > > > that > > > > > > > by > > > > > > > > > > denying they no longer will exist. But that denial > is > > > > just > > > > > > > > another > > > > > > > > > > reaction which adds to that reactive bundle called > ego. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So why not stay with what is, honestly seeing what > one > > > > is, > > > > > > how > > > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > ticking, without escaping into nondual > terminology ? > > > By > > > > > > > > conatantly > > > > > > > > > > nondual babbling one more and more falls linto the > > > trap > > > > of > > > > > > > > > believing > > > > > > > > > > one had understood. But that " understanding " is > just > > > > > > > intellectual > > > > > > > > > > rumination of what one has read. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Therefore I would suggest from now on lets call > the > > > > > members > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > forum " nondual ruminators " . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A true post from an honest man. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now let us be more practical, is there a way out of > the > > > > ego? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Most mystical writings say YES. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As humans with mystical heritage, all religions and > > > > whatever > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > else is open for us to examine and contemplate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am sure that most of us have done that at an > earlier > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > period. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I came across a post in another group-a sufi group- > I > > > will > > > > > post > > > > > > > > here > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > because of its relation to the topic we are > discussing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > v h > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The post in the sufi group with the title: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Truest Teaching Ever Said > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " At that time the disciples came to Jesus and > > > asked, " Who > > > > is > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > greatest in the kingdom of heaven? " He called a > child, > > > > whom > > > > > he > > > > > > > put > > > > > > > > > among them, and said, " Truly I tell you, unless you > > > change > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > become like children, you will never enter the > kingdom > > > of > > > > > > > > heaven.... " > > > > > > > > > Matthew 18:1-9 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is the truest answer given in history. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It shows that the child is in the Kingdom. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then, how am i -now- different from the child? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What have i added to myself in the process of > growing up > > > > > from a > > > > > > > > child > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to become a man? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Remembering the Experience of the child, would be > the > > > key > > > > to > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kingdom. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Kingdom was an immediate Experience to the child, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > HERE AND NOW. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We lost site of the kingdom by this process of > growing > > > up > > > > > and we > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > saw the world (dunya) instead. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i created the ego (nafs) and the dunya together as > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > PART and PARCEL, that is how i lost the Kingdom. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now, i can start to retrace my steps back, because i > now > > > > > know > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > once i was there -HERE. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No need to wait for death, because i will die where > i am. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If i am in the Kingdom, i will die in the Kingdom, > no > > > harm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > done, the Kingdom is forever -Here-, But if i die in > the > > > > > > > nafs/dunya > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > complex, i will remain there -Here also- suffering > and > > > > > deprived. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > p.s. To me, the Kingdom of Heaven means The Paradise > of > > > > God > > > > > > > (Junnah) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > or The Face of God, or TRUTH, or Nibana, The Garden > of > > > > > > Eden...etc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok, ok, Virgil, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nice fairy tale of a guy who undoubtedly never > existed. > > > More > > > > > here: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And now let me ask, is your ego gone ? Or are you just > > > > > dreaming > > > > > > of > > > > > > > an > > > > > > > > egoless state hoping to enter Nirvana ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I promise you, without an " ego " you quickly will end > up in > > > a > > > > > > > mental > > > > > > > > asylum as a totally helpless brabbling grown up baby. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So the question is not how to get rid of the ego but > > > rather > > > > > how > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > live with it without fighting it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok Wrner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Whether jesus existed or not, it is not of my concern, > but > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > statment " he " or whoever said it -to me- is true. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As for without the ego one would go to a mental > institution, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > then every man who spoke in mysticism should be > hospitalized. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > starting from, Moses, Ramana, Nis, Wei wu Wei,...etc.! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is rather strange! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > v h > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Virgil, > > > > > > > > > > > > I have been into all that you memtioned, also into Sufism. > > > Many > > > > > years > > > > > > ago I lived for two years in a Sufi Khanka ( Btw, my Sufi > name > > > > is > > > > > > Hamza ) but I am out of all that spiritual shilt told or > > > written > > > > > by > > > > > > others, dead or alive. > > > > > > > > > > > > When you are very very simply, then maybe you get near to > what > > > > you > > > > > > are: A living thing, full of mental crap. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > Then all you have known after years of search is that what > > > > > > > > > > we are: " A living thing, full of mental crap " > > > > > > > > > > What a journey! > > > > > > > > > > Hope -for your sake- that you are correct, lest you may > discover > > > > > > > > > > that you are wrong when you cannot do anything about it, I > mean > > > > > > > > > > when you face death. > > > > > > > > > > v h > > > > > > > > > Hope you can say that when you face death > > > > > > > > v h > > > > > > > To hope this for you -or me- so that you -or me- would transcend > > > > > > the experience of dying safely. > > > > > > v h > > > > > > > > > > :-) > > > > dante alighieri wrote the dinine comedy between 1306 and 1321. > > > > virgil is the guide who takes us through the the afterlife. > > > > we travel through Inferno..Purgatorio... Paradiso... > > > > only THAT virgil said: > > > > 'abandon hope all ye who enter here'. > > > > can't be the same place... > > > > nor... > > > > the same virgil.... > > > > too much optimism here. > > > > too much pessimism there. > > > > just boogie on and be cool. > > > > it ain't real in any way whatsoever. > > > > LOL > > > > .b b.b. > > > If it is six feet down, then let us celebrate > > and have a double scotch! > > v h :-) ..b b.b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2007 Report Share Posted November 23, 2007 Mirrors! Why in the world would a self realized person enter nirvana, while the liar does not? What's the difference between nirvana and this world? In ego terms, what's the difference between the self realized liar and yourself? After all we're speaking about illusions here, the seeker has the illusion of seeking enlightenment, and liberation from suffering. The self realized suffers from the illusion of being liberated from reincarnations ... The mind is a mirror, it comes straight from nirvana, wherever that is, each individual persona has been to nirvana, endless times. And why do we always return here, to this world, because this world, is our nirvana. Nisargadatta , "Werner Woehr" <wwoehr wrote:>> Hi advaitains,> > On this list most members including myself are cheaters and liars and > are writing their posts as if they are fully realized or enlightened.> > For example to state that there is no ego is a lie. There is a > structure, a bundle of personal reactions based on memory collected > during one's life time which are centered aorund and fed by the > inherent suvival instinct. One can realize these reactions all day > long and undeniably they are obvious and do exist. For this bundle > there exist a generic term: Ego.> > Ok, there is no source called ego which is creating all those > reactions but nevertheless those reactions do exist. But to say that > there is no ego simply is a lie, a lie based on the hope that by > denying they no longer will exist. But that denial is just another > reaction which adds to that reactive bundle called ego.> > So why not stay with what is, honestly seeing what one is, how one is > ticking, without escaping into nondual terminology ? By conatantly > nondual babbling one more and more falls linto the trap of believing > one had understood. But that "understanding" is just intellectual > rumination of what one has read.> > Therefore I would suggest from now on lets call the members of this > forum "nondual ruminators".> > > > Werner> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2007 Report Share Posted November 23, 2007 Nisargadatta , " zen_mirror " <zen_mirror wrote: > > > Mirrors! Why in the world would a self realized person enter > nirvana, while the liar does not? What's the difference between > nirvana and this world? In ego terms, what's the difference between > the self realized liar and yourself? After all we're speaking about > illusions here, the seeker has the illusion of seeking enlightenment, > and liberation from suffering. The self realized suffers from the > illusion of being liberated from reincarnations ... The mind is a > mirror, it comes straight from nirvana, wherever that is, each > individual persona has been to nirvana, endless times. And why do we > always return here, to this world, because this world, is our > nirvana. are you ok? ..b b.b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2007 Report Share Posted November 23, 2007 whenever I come here, it is because I'm bored to death. is this ok. Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > are you ok? > > .b b.b. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2007 Report Share Posted November 23, 2007 you are a deathly bore too. that's alright.. but.. are 'you' ok? ..b b.b. Nisargadatta , " zen_mirror " <zen_mirror wrote: > > whenever I come here, > it is because I'm bored to death. > is this ok. > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > wrote: > > > > are you ok? > > > > .b b.b. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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