Guest guest Posted November 8, 2007 Report Share Posted November 8, 2007 Dear Sastri-ji, This addresses the question but gives the 'stock' answer addressed to the seeker still identified with a body (no intention to be disrespectful here!) Let me try to spell out the question and its implication in the simplest terms. If I (Dennis) do not get enlightened, the subtle body that effectively IS the identity 'Dennis' will be reborn into a new body with a different name, with vAsanA-s/saMskAra-s according to the law of karma. (As previously noted, I am not interested in discussing the mechanism of this. We have both written about it extensively elsewhere.) Brahman of course is unaffected one way or the other and the truth is that I am brahman even though I do not know this. Now Dennis is enlightened. This means that the subtle body that identifies Dennis will not now be reborn. Great! But, as you say, other subtle bodies will continue to be reborn. What difference does it make whether I (brahman) manifest in a subtle body called Dennis or a subtle body called something else, with a different set of vAsanA-s? You are clearly not suggesting that 'I, as brahman' simply watch while a separate brahman does the manifesting. There is only ever brahman whether or not 'Dennis' is enlightened. The only benefit of this enlightenment for Dennis is knowing the truth for the remainder of the life of Dennis. It makes no difference at all to brahman. The explanation you have given (in accordance with most of the 'interim' teaching) somehow suggests that 'I' as Dennis, having attained enlightenment, somehow sit back for the rest of time watching other poor fools struggling to attain it. But 'I' as Dennis will be no more and 'I' as brahman am what I always was and will be, namely the non-dual reality. Therefore the question remains: is there any benefit in attaining enlightenment other than for that jIva for the rest of its embodiment? Hope I have expressed myself more clearly this time - I must confess I am finding it quite difficult! (In the original question below, by 'false I', I was referring to Dennis and by 'real I' I was referring to brahman.) Best wishes, Dennis advaitin [advaitin ] On Behalf Of S.N. Sastri 08 November 2007 14:14 advaitin What is it like? Dear Dennis, Who is the false 'I' and who is the real 'I'? You are your subtle body. That is your identity. That is the same in all your past births and in your future births also, with changes in the form of removal of old vAsanas and addition of new vAsanas in each birth. This subtle body which you are, will continue till you, as the subtle body, get enlightment. When you get enlightment your subtle body will cease to exist and you will not be born again.That is the benefit you get by enlihjtenment. But other subtle bodies will continue to be born until they get enlightenment but how should that affect you? The false 'I' is the subtle body which transmigrates. The real 'I' is the Self which is never born and never dies. I do not know whether I have answered your question. Regards, S. N.Sastri Accordingly, one might ask why one should pursue enlightenment if, although the 'false' I will not be reborn, the real 'I' will continue to appear as deluded jIva-s.>> Best wishes, Dennis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 2007 Report Share Posted November 9, 2007 Dennis - Shree Shastriji has answered your question. The problem I see is putting one leg in Brahman 'state' and one leg in the vyaavahaarika state. If I say I have realized Brahman, that means I have understood that I am brahman and not finite jiiva. If I have realized that I am infinite, where is the question of other jiivas, other subtle bodies, etc. It is like a dream state and once one is awake and asks I am awake and liberated from dream samsaara but what about the other jiivas who were suffering along with me in my dream. When I am awake, I realize all the bodies and other jiivas, nay, the whole world that was projected is only a superimposition on me - I am the substratum on which the apparent world appears. Hence Krishna says - Look at my glory Arjuna - showing his vishvaruupa. From the state of realization, there are no real other jiivas or the world that is separe from me or any suffering from anywhere - I am ananda swaruupam - immaculately pure and divine. If I ask the question about the other jiivas - only implies that I have not realized that I am brahman, perid. One fellow asked Swami Chinmayananda - swamiji I know that I am brahman but how come I am still suffering? Swamiji just asked back - yes that is also my question. If you know that you are Brahman, then how come your are suffering? - the point is if I know I am Brahman, I am one without a second, by definition. Hari Om! Sadananda --- Dennis Waite <dwaite wrote: You are > clearly not suggesting that > 'I, as brahman' simply watch while a separate > brahman does the manifesting. > There is only ever brahman whether or not 'Dennis' > is enlightened. The only > benefit of this enlightenment for Dennis is knowing > the truth for the > remainder of the life of Dennis. It makes no > difference at all to brahman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 27, 2007 Report Share Posted December 27, 2007 Like a drop of water in the ocean saying to the rest of the water " My name is Joe " Z Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 27, 2007 Report Share Posted December 27, 2007 Nisargadatta , " tom " <jeusisbuen wrote: > > Like a drop of water > in the ocean > saying to the rest of the water > " My name is Joe " Z > Like a drop of water in a fishbowl saying to the rest of the water " My name is Bob the Donkey " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 27, 2007 Report Share Posted December 27, 2007 Nisargadatta , " Johan " <yohansky wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " tom " <jeusisbuen@> wrote: > > > > Like a drop of water > > in the ocean > > saying to the rest of the water > > " My name is Joe " Z > > > > Like a drop of water > in a fishbowl > saying to the rest of the water > " My name is Bob the Donkey " you are so fascinated with the baba... that you need bring him up in posts to others over other matters. you love me and you know it you filthy animal. you can't get bobji out of your head. i would say you can't keep bobji out of your mind.. but we know that a mind is something you don't have. like your love for me..which is not puppy love.. because we know you're not as clean as a shit in the house puppy. but still and all robbie...you're love for me is disgusting. hey! your love for me is just like your own self... revolting and repellent. ROFLMAO! ..b b.b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 27, 2007 Report Share Posted December 27, 2007 Nisargadatta , " tom " <jeusisbuen wrote: > > Like a drop of water > in the ocean > saying to the rest of the water > " My name is Joe " Z > It is not like that it is that. Joe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 27, 2007 Report Share Posted December 27, 2007 Nisargadatta , " joe.irrelevant " <joe.irrelevant wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " tom " <jeusisbuen@> wrote: > > > > Like a drop of water > > in the ocean > > saying to the rest of the water > > " My name is Joe " Z > > > It is not like that it is that. > Joe. :-) i like that. and that's that. ..b b.b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 27, 2007 Report Share Posted December 27, 2007 Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " joe.irrelevant " > <joe.irrelevant@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " tom " <jeusisbuen@> wrote: > > > > > > Like a drop of water > > > in the ocean > > > saying to the rest of the water > > > " My name is Joe " Z > > > > > It is not like that it is that. > > Joe. > > > > :-) > > i like that. > > and that's that. > > .b b.b. > LOL. Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 28, 2007 Report Share Posted December 28, 2007 Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Johan " <yohansky@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " tom " <jeusisbuen@> wrote: > > > > > > Like a drop of water > > > in the ocean > > > saying to the rest of the water > > > " My name is Joe " Z > > > > > > > Like a drop of water > > in a fishbowl > > saying to the rest of the water > > " My name is Bob the Donkey " > > > you are so fascinated with the baba... > > that you need bring him up in posts to others over other matters. > > you love me and you know it you filthy animal. > > you can't get bobji out of your head. > > i would say you can't keep bobji out of your mind.. > > but we know that a mind is something you don't have. > > like your love for me..which is not puppy love.. > > because we know you're not as clean as a shit in the house puppy. > > but still and all robbie...you're love for me is disgusting. > > hey! > > your love for me is just like your own self... > > revolting and repellent. > > ROFLMAO! > > .b b.b. > Hallelujah Holy Mother Mary Macaroni, here we go again, so much banging on the drums with so little contents, as usual...of course. Is it possible this tells us a little about the language used during your upbring...Lttl Bb? It's all okay. Keep Wham Bham Slamming, get it all out. Sancho is here to listen. Indeed I love you, you are so adorable, what would I do without my daily routine visiting the retirement village " The Last Step " your're living in, face it Bb time's almost over for ya. By the way, that thing Dutch, just like that thing English, finds it roots from the Germanic language tree. You know that much don't you? Be Happy Lttl Dnk, Be Happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 28, 2007 Report Share Posted December 28, 2007 Nisargadatta , " Johan " <yohansky wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " > <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Johan " <yohansky@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " tom " <jeusisbuen@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Like a drop of water > > > > in the ocean > > > > saying to the rest of the water > > > > " My name is Joe " Z > > > > > > > > > > Like a drop of water > > > in a fishbowl > > > saying to the rest of the water > > > " My name is Bob the Donkey " > > > > > > you are so fascinated with the baba... > > > > that you need bring him up in posts to others over other matters. > > > > you love me and you know it you filthy animal. > > > > you can't get bobji out of your head. > > > > i would say you can't keep bobji out of your mind.. > > > > but we know that a mind is something you don't have. > > > > like your love for me..which is not puppy love.. > > > > because we know you're not as clean as a shit in the house puppy. > > > > but still and all robbie...you're love for me is disgusting. > > > > hey! > > > > your love for me is just like your own self... > > > > revolting and repellent. > > > > ROFLMAO! > > > > .b b.b. > > > > Hallelujah Holy Mother Mary Macaroni, here we go again, so much > banging on the drums with so little contents, as usual...of course. > > Is it possible this tells us a little about the language used during > your upbring...Lttl Bb? It's all okay. Keep Wham Bham Slamming, get > it all out. Sancho is here to listen. > > Indeed I love you, you are so adorable, what would I do without my > daily routine visiting the retirement village " The Last Step " > your're living in, face it Bb time's almost over for ya. > > By the way, that thing Dutch, just like that thing English, finds it > roots from the Germanic language tree. You know that much don't you? > > Be Happy Lttl Dnk, Be Happy. ROFLMAO! a nazi! ..b b.b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 28, 2007 Report Share Posted December 28, 2007 Nisargadatta , " Johan " <yohansky wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " > <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Johan " <yohansky@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " > > > <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Johan " <yohansky@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " tom " <jeusisbuen@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Like a drop of water > > > > > > in the ocean > > > > > > saying to the rest of the water > > > > > > " My name is Joe " Z > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like a drop of water > > > > > in a fishbowl > > > > > saying to the rest of the water > > > > > " My name is Bob the Donkey " > > > > > > > > > > > > you are so fascinated with the baba... > > > > > > > > that you need bring him up in posts to others over other > matters. > > > > > > > > you love me and you know it you filthy animal. > > > > > > > > you can't get bobji out of your head. > > > > > > > > i would say you can't keep bobji out of your mind.. > > > > > > > > but we know that a mind is something you don't have. > > > > > > > > like your love for me..which is not puppy love.. > > > > > > > > because we know you're not as clean as a shit in the house > puppy. > > > > > > > > but still and all robbie...you're love for me is disgusting. > > > > > > > > hey! > > > > > > > > your love for me is just like your own self... > > > > > > > > revolting and repellent. > > > > > > > > ROFLMAO! > > > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > > > > > Hallelujah Holy Mother Mary Macaroni, here we go again, so much > > > banging on the drums with so little contents, as usual...of > course. > > > > > > Is it possible this tells us a little about the language used > during > > > your upbring...Lttl Bb? It's all okay. Keep Wham Bham Slamming, > get > > > it all out. Sancho is here to listen. > > > > > > Indeed I love you, you are so adorable, what would I do without > my > > > daily routine visiting the retirement village " The Last Step " > > > your're living in, face it Bb time's almost over for ya. > > > > > > By the way, that thing Dutch, just like that thing English, > finds it > > > roots from the Germanic language tree. You know that much don't > you? > > > > > > Be Happy Lttl Dnk, Be Happy. > > > > > > ROFLMAO! > > > > a nazi! > > Your old man? Fled to Canada? > > That already explains the use and choice of your words. > > Clippety Clop, Clippety Clop, Clippety Clop... HlHtlr! > > > > > .b b.b. oh so that one hurt you huh? well of course you are wrong again.. i was referring to you and yours robert. and you got so excited that you punched in your stupid reply.. above my signing...look above robbie.. LOL! well as to my father.. nah he most definitely was no nazi. my old man killed a lot of your fascistic heroes.. before the coward survivors ran off to brazil and columbia... where they infected the native population breeding like bunnies.. which produced retards like you with names changed to.. oh i dunno...amory and other dumb shit. then they infested and inhabited the good old u.s.a. along with their infected bodies they came with their plague.. to sit around in squalor in california. then those names changed to ~sky, and mstrdmmlbrn, and johan.. and used whichever one was needed after being busted under another. mooching and begging and loneliness became their new fuhrers. oh pancho i know so much about weasels like you and yours. how's your plastic lover today? are you making a killing in the stock market you phony? hows the welfare state treating you? need some CDs? what a sad sack life and times you lead. ROFLMAO! ..b b.b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 29, 2007 Report Share Posted December 29, 2007 Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Johan " <yohansky@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " > > <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Johan " <yohansky@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " tom " <jeusisbuen@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Like a drop of water > > > > > in the ocean > > > > > saying to the rest of the water > > > > > " My name is Joe " Z > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like a drop of water > > > > in a fishbowl > > > > saying to the rest of the water > > > > " My name is Bob the Donkey " > > > > > > > > > you are so fascinated with the baba... > > > > > > that you need bring him up in posts to others over other matters. > > > > > > you love me and you know it you filthy animal. > > > > > > you can't get bobji out of your head. > > > > > > i would say you can't keep bobji out of your mind.. > > > > > > but we know that a mind is something you don't have. > > > > > > like your love for me..which is not puppy love.. > > > > > > because we know you're not as clean as a shit in the house puppy. > > > > > > but still and all robbie...you're love for me is disgusting. > > > > > > hey! > > > > > > your love for me is just like your own self... > > > > > > revolting and repellent. > > > > > > ROFLMAO! > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > > Hallelujah Holy Mother Mary Macaroni, here we go again, so much > > banging on the drums with so little contents, as usual...of course. > > > > Is it possible this tells us a little about the language used during > > your upbring...Lttl Bb? It's all okay. Keep Wham Bham Slamming, get > > it all out. Sancho is here to listen. > > > > Indeed I love you, you are so adorable, what would I do without my > > daily routine visiting the retirement village " The Last Step " > > your're living in, face it Bb time's almost over for ya. > > > > By the way, that thing Dutch, just like that thing English, finds it > > roots from the Germanic language tree. You know that much don't you? > > > > Be Happy Lttl Dnk, Be Happy. > > > ROFLMAO! > > a nazi! > > .b b.b. > I have withdrawn my previous reply on this post, for it is my wish not be associated with posts of this level. It is also my wish to express my regret for having done so (reacting to such post). An unconditional and sincere apology to anyone I may have offended with my comment. Johan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 29, 2007 Report Share Posted December 29, 2007 Nisargadatta , " Johan " <yohansky wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " > <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Johan " <yohansky@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " > > > <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Johan " <yohansky@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " tom " <jeusisbuen@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Like a drop of water > > > > > > in the ocean > > > > > > saying to the rest of the water > > > > > > " My name is Joe " Z > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like a drop of water > > > > > in a fishbowl > > > > > saying to the rest of the water > > > > > " My name is Bob the Donkey " > > > > > > > > > > > > you are so fascinated with the baba... > > > > > > > > that you need bring him up in posts to others over other > matters. > > > > > > > > you love me and you know it you filthy animal. > > > > > > > > you can't get bobji out of your head. > > > > > > > > i would say you can't keep bobji out of your mind.. > > > > > > > > but we know that a mind is something you don't have. > > > > > > > > like your love for me..which is not puppy love.. > > > > > > > > because we know you're not as clean as a shit in the house > puppy. > > > > > > > > but still and all robbie...you're love for me is disgusting. > > > > > > > > hey! > > > > > > > > your love for me is just like your own self... > > > > > > > > revolting and repellent. > > > > > > > > ROFLMAO! > > > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > > > > > Hallelujah Holy Mother Mary Macaroni, here we go again, so much > > > banging on the drums with so little contents, as usual...of > course. > > > > > > Is it possible this tells us a little about the language used > during > > > your upbring...Lttl Bb? It's all okay. Keep Wham Bham Slamming, > get > > > it all out. Sancho is here to listen. > > > > > > Indeed I love you, you are so adorable, what would I do without > my > > > daily routine visiting the retirement village " The Last Step " > > > your're living in, face it Bb time's almost over for ya. > > > > > > By the way, that thing Dutch, just like that thing English, > finds it > > > roots from the Germanic language tree. You know that much don't > you? > > > > > > Be Happy Lttl Dnk, Be Happy. > > > > > > ROFLMAO! > > > > a nazi! > > > > .b b.b. > > > > I have withdrawn my previous reply on this post, for it is my wish > not be associated with posts of this level. > > It is also my wish to express my regret for having done so (reacting > to such post). > > An unconditional and sincere apology to anyone I may have offended > with my comment. > > Johan. LOL! ..b b.b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.