Guest guest Posted December 30, 2007 Report Share Posted December 30, 2007 Even the intellectual understanding of the inexistence of our 'selves' is a rare and bitter attainment which few even attempt. And that is only the elimination round which qualifies us for access to Reality... Intellectual understanding should be not indispensable to a 'simple' mind, but, with our conditioning, it would seem to be an almost inevitable preliminary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2007 Report Share Posted December 30, 2007 Nisargadatta , " tom " <jeusisbuen wrote: > > Even the intellectual understanding of the inexistence of our 'selves' > is a rare and bitter attainment which few even attempt. And that is > only the elimination round which qualifies us for access to Reality... > Intellectual understanding should be not indispensable to a 'simple' > mind, but, with our conditioning, it would seem to be an almost > inevitable preliminary. there is self....and non-self... without (intellectual) understanding.... it's impossible to make/see the difference between self and non-self Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2007 Report Share Posted December 30, 2007 intellectual understanding? Self is me, non-self is you. was that intellectual enough? Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " tom " <jeusisbuen@> wrote: > > > > Even the intellectual understanding of the inexistence of > our 'selves' > > is a rare and bitter attainment which few even attempt. And that is > > only the elimination round which qualifies us for access to > Reality... > > Intellectual understanding should be not indispensable to a 'simple' > > mind, but, with our conditioning, it would seem to be an almost > > inevitable preliminary. > > > there is self....and non-self... > > without (intellectual) understanding.... > > it's impossible to make/see the difference between self and non-self > > Marc > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2007 Report Share Posted December 30, 2007 actually that's more philistine than intellectual. but then you wouldn't understand that. ..b b.b. Nisargadatta , " zen_mirror " <zen_mirror wrote: > > intellectual understanding? > > Self is me, non-self is you. > > was that intellectual enough? > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " tom " <jeusisbuen@> wrote: > > > > > > Even the intellectual understanding of the inexistence of > > our 'selves' > > > is a rare and bitter attainment which few even attempt. And that > is > > > only the elimination round which qualifies us for access to > > Reality... > > > Intellectual understanding should be not indispensable to > a 'simple' > > > mind, but, with our conditioning, it would seem to be an almost > > > inevitable preliminary. > > > > > > there is self....and non-self... > > > > without (intellectual) understanding.... > > > > it's impossible to make/see the difference between self and non-self > > > > Marc > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2007 Report Share Posted December 30, 2007 it's enough if you understand it. without intellectual but rather with philistine understanding, which proves, that even a philistine thinker can make and see the difference between my self and your non-self. zen Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > actually that's more philistine than intellectual. > > but then you wouldn't understand that. > > > .b b.b. > > > > Nisargadatta , " zen_mirror " <zen_mirror@> wrote: > > > > intellectual understanding? > > > > Self is me, non-self is you. > > > > was that intellectual enough? > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " tom " <jeusisbuen@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Even the intellectual understanding of the inexistence of > > > our 'selves' > > > > is a rare and bitter attainment which few even attempt. And that > > is > > > > only the elimination round which qualifies us for access to > > > Reality... > > > > Intellectual understanding should be not indispensable to > > a 'simple' > > > > mind, but, with our conditioning, it would seem to be an almost > > > > inevitable preliminary. > > > > > > > > > there is self....and non-self... > > > > > > without (intellectual) understanding.... > > > > > > it's impossible to make/see the difference between self and non- self > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2007 Report Share Posted December 30, 2007 Nisargadatta , " zen_mirror " <zen_mirror wrote: > > intellectual understanding? > > Self is me, non-self is you. > > was that intellectual enough? there is nobody else....but " you " ...who could know the answer good luck Marc > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " tom " <jeusisbuen@> wrote: > > > > > > Even the intellectual understanding of the inexistence of > > our 'selves' > > > is a rare and bitter attainment which few even attempt. And that > is > > > only the elimination round which qualifies us for access to > > Reality... > > > Intellectual understanding should be not indispensable to > a 'simple' > > > mind, but, with our conditioning, it would seem to be an almost > > > inevitable preliminary. > > > > > > there is self....and non-self... > > > > without (intellectual) understanding.... > > > > it's impossible to make/see the difference between self and non- self > > > > Marc > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2007 Report Share Posted December 30, 2007 if you are seeing differences pal... you are seeing 'things'. do you sincerely believe there are 'things'... different 'things'? if that's your stance.. what the hell do you frequent places like this for? study accounting and get on with your real agenda.. and quit spouting bullshit about mirrors and unity. you don't believe your own bullshit.. so don't expect anyone else to either. ..b b.b. Nisargadatta , " zen_mirror " <zen_mirror wrote: > > it's enough if you understand it. > > without intellectual but rather with philistine understanding, > > which proves, that even a philistine thinker can make and see the > difference between my self and your non-self. > > zen > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " > <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > actually that's more philistine than intellectual. > > > > but then you wouldn't understand that. > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " zen_mirror " <zen_mirror@> > wrote: > > > > > > intellectual understanding? > > > > > > Self is me, non-self is you. > > > > > > was that intellectual enough? > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > > > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " tom " <jeusisbuen@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Even the intellectual understanding of the inexistence of > > > > our 'selves' > > > > > is a rare and bitter attainment which few even attempt. And > that > > > is > > > > > only the elimination round which qualifies us for access to > > > > Reality... > > > > > Intellectual understanding should be not indispensable to > > > a 'simple' > > > > > mind, but, with our conditioning, it would seem to be an > almost > > > > > inevitable preliminary. > > > > > > > > > > > > there is self....and non-self... > > > > > > > > without (intellectual) understanding.... > > > > > > > > it's impossible to make/see the difference between self and non- > self > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2007 Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 Intellectual understanding has to sink down to the heart or it will be of limited value in transforming you. vh In Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " zen_mirror " <zen_mirror@> > wrote: > > > > intellectual understanding? > > > > Self is me, non-self is you. > > > > was that intellectual enough? > > > there is nobody else....but " you " ...who could know the answer > > good luck > > Marc > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " tom " <jeusisbuen@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Even the intellectual understanding of the inexistence of > > > our 'selves' > > > > is a rare and bitter attainment which few even attempt. And > that > > is > > > > only the elimination round which qualifies us for access to > > > Reality... > > > > Intellectual understanding should be not indispensable to > > a 'simple' > > > > mind, but, with our conditioning, it would seem to be an almost > > > > inevitable preliminary. > > > > > > > > > there is self....and non-self... > > > > > > without (intellectual) understanding.... > > > > > > it's impossible to make/see the difference between self and non- > self > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2007 Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 Nisargadatta , " Virgil " <v.halbred wrote: > > Intellectual understanding has to sink down to the heart or it > will be of limited value in transforming you. > > vh who's the 'you' to be transformed? from what to which? all is change but nothing changes. value is a judgment call. who set you up as an authority able to estimate worth or quality? must be a burden huh? that burden and the 'one' who believes that he carries it.. same same same same same.. wake up and smell the vapors that aren't really there. nonexistent phase transitions of equal and no 'value'. ..b b.b. > In Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " zen_mirror " <zen_mirror@> > > wrote: > > > > > > intellectual understanding? > > > > > > Self is me, non-self is you. > > > > > > was that intellectual enough? > > > > > > there is nobody else....but " you " ...who could know the answer > > > > good luck > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > > > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " tom " <jeusisbuen@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Even the intellectual understanding of the inexistence of > > > > our 'selves' > > > > > is a rare and bitter attainment which few even attempt. And > > that > > > is > > > > > only the elimination round which qualifies us for access to > > > > Reality... > > > > > Intellectual understanding should be not indispensable to > > > a 'simple' > > > > > mind, but, with our conditioning, it would seem to be an > almost > > > > > inevitable preliminary. > > > > > > > > > > > > there is self....and non-self... > > > > > > > > without (intellectual) understanding.... > > > > > > > > it's impossible to make/see the difference between self and > non- > > self > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2007 Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 congratulation, you got it half wrong, just that you're conclusion is not mine, I believe my own bullshit, .... testing terms of me and not you, to see if anyone does actually understand a word of what I'm fabricating, fantasize, you obviously did. call me a liar, my not me, is obviously what you call your self. zen Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > if you are seeing differences pal... > > you are seeing 'things'. > > do you sincerely believe there are 'things'... > > different 'things'? > > if that's your stance.. > > what the hell do you frequent places like this for? > > study accounting and get on with your real agenda.. > > and quit spouting bullshit about mirrors and unity. > > you don't believe your own bullshit.. > > so don't expect anyone else to either. > > .b b.b. > > Nisargadatta , " zen_mirror " <zen_mirror@> wrote: > > > > it's enough if you understand it. > > > > without intellectual but rather with philistine understanding, > > > > which proves, that even a philistine thinker can make and see the > > difference between my self and your non-self. > > > > zen > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " > > <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > > > actually that's more philistine than intellectual. > > > > > > but then you wouldn't understand that. > > > > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " zen_mirror " <zen_mirror@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > intellectual understanding? > > > > > > > > Self is me, non-self is you. > > > > > > > > was that intellectual enough? > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > > > > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " tom " <jeusisbuen@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Even the intellectual understanding of the inexistence of > > > > > our 'selves' > > > > > > is a rare and bitter attainment which few even attempt. And > > that > > > > is > > > > > > only the elimination round which qualifies us for access to > > > > > Reality... > > > > > > Intellectual understanding should be not indispensable to > > > > a 'simple' > > > > > > mind, but, with our conditioning, it would seem to be an > > almost > > > > > > inevitable preliminary. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there is self....and non-self... > > > > > > > > > > without (intellectual) understanding.... > > > > > > > > > > it's impossible to make/see the difference between self and non- > > self > > > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2007 Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 The mirror who else, is there. The fiction, fatamorgana, fantasy. There are countless names for the one, some even call it none. zen Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Virgil " <v.halbred@> wrote: > > > > Intellectual understanding has to sink down to the heart or it > > will be of limited value in transforming you. > > > > vh > > > > > who's the 'you' to be transformed? > > from what to which? > > all is change but nothing changes. > > value is a judgment call. > > who set you up as an authority able to estimate worth or quality? > > must be a burden huh? > > that burden and the 'one' who believes that he carries it.. > > same same same same same.. > > wake up and smell the vapors that aren't really there. > > nonexistent phase transitions of equal and no 'value'. > > .b b.b. > > > > > > > In Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " zen_mirror " <zen_mirror@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > intellectual understanding? > > > > > > > > Self is me, non-self is you. > > > > > > > > was that intellectual enough? > > > > > > > > > there is nobody else....but " you " ...who could know the answer > > > > > > good luck > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > > > > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " tom " <jeusisbuen@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Even the intellectual understanding of the inexistence of > > > > > our 'selves' > > > > > > is a rare and bitter attainment which few even attempt. And > > > that > > > > is > > > > > > only the elimination round which qualifies us for access to > > > > > Reality... > > > > > > Intellectual understanding should be not indispensable to > > > > a 'simple' > > > > > > mind, but, with our conditioning, it would seem to be an > > almost > > > > > > inevitable preliminary. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there is self....and non-self... > > > > > > > > > > without (intellectual) understanding.... > > > > > > > > > > it's impossible to make/see the difference between self and > > non- > > > self > > > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2007 Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 Nisargadatta , " zen_mirror " <zen_mirror wrote: > > congratulation, you got it half wrong, keep your congratulations.. use them for the missing half of your half-ass faulty notions. > just that you're conclusion is not mine, i made no conclusions. i made statements. of course those assertions weren't your's. your's aren't even half right. > I believe my own bullshit, no shit! > ... testing terms of me and not you, there's that other half...also wrong. > to see if anyone does actually understand a word of what I'm > fabricating, fantasize, that's fucking impossible. > you obviously did. > i always do the impossible. that's my forte. i don't expect you to understand. thanks for living up (oops...down) to my expectations of you. > call me a liar, no..you're not a liar. you're just deluded. you actually believe your own bullshit.. you just said so. need lithium? > my not me, is obviously what you call your self. > > zen ah!!!! proof positive. grand delusions! delusions of grandeur.... trying to relate yourself to the Great baba. won't work. no more than your phony zen does. ..b bobji baba > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " > <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > if you are seeing differences pal... > > > > you are seeing 'things'. > > > > do you sincerely believe there are 'things'... > > > > different 'things'? > > > > if that's your stance.. > > > > what the hell do you frequent places like this for? > > > > study accounting and get on with your real agenda.. > > > > and quit spouting bullshit about mirrors and unity. > > > > you don't believe your own bullshit.. > > > > so don't expect anyone else to either. > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " zen_mirror " <zen_mirror@> > wrote: > > > > > > it's enough if you understand it. > > > > > > without intellectual but rather with philistine understanding, > > > > > > which proves, that even a philistine thinker can make and see the > > > difference between my self and your non-self. > > > > > > zen > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " > > > <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > > > > > actually that's more philistine than intellectual. > > > > > > > > but then you wouldn't understand that. > > > > > > > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " zen_mirror " <zen_mirror@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > intellectual understanding? > > > > > > > > > > Self is me, non-self is you. > > > > > > > > > > was that intellectual enough? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > > > > > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " tom " <jeusisbuen@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even the intellectual understanding of the inexistence of > > > > > > our 'selves' > > > > > > > is a rare and bitter attainment which few even attempt. > And > > > that > > > > > is > > > > > > > only the elimination round which qualifies us for access > to > > > > > > Reality... > > > > > > > Intellectual understanding should be not indispensable to > > > > > a 'simple' > > > > > > > mind, but, with our conditioning, it would seem to be an > > > almost > > > > > > > inevitable preliminary. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there is self....and non-self... > > > > > > > > > > > > without (intellectual) understanding.... > > > > > > > > > > > > it's impossible to make/see the difference between self and > non- > > > self > > > > > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2007 Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 Nisargadatta , " zen_mirror " <zen_mirror wrote: > > The mirror who else, is there. > The fiction, fatamorgana, fantasy. > > There are countless names for the one, > some even call it none. > > zen there is no name. there is no mirror. there is no such fucking thing as mirage in the strait of messina.. you enjoy fantasies don't you? 'tis ok chap.. there is no 'you' in any case. your teacher, ..b b.b. > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " > <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Virgil " <v.halbred@> wrote: > > > > > > Intellectual understanding has to sink down to the heart or it > > > will be of limited value in transforming you. > > > > > > vh > > > > > > > > > > who's the 'you' to be transformed? > > > > from what to which? > > > > all is change but nothing changes. > > > > value is a judgment call. > > > > who set you up as an authority able to estimate worth or quality? > > > > must be a burden huh? > > > > that burden and the 'one' who believes that he carries it.. > > > > same same same same same.. > > > > wake up and smell the vapors that aren't really there. > > > > nonexistent phase transitions of equal and no 'value'. > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > > > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " zen_mirror " <zen_mirror@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > intellectual understanding? > > > > > > > > > > Self is me, non-self is you. > > > > > > > > > > was that intellectual enough? > > > > > > > > > > > > there is nobody else....but " you " ...who could know the answer > > > > > > > > good luck > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > > > > > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " tom " <jeusisbuen@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even the intellectual understanding of the inexistence of > > > > > > our 'selves' > > > > > > > is a rare and bitter attainment which few even attempt. > And > > > > that > > > > > is > > > > > > > only the elimination round which qualifies us for access > to > > > > > > Reality... > > > > > > > Intellectual understanding should be not indispensable to > > > > > a 'simple' > > > > > > > mind, but, with our conditioning, it would seem to be an > > > almost > > > > > > > inevitable preliminary. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there is self....and non-self... > > > > > > > > > > > > without (intellectual) understanding.... > > > > > > > > > > > > it's impossible to make/see the difference between self and > > > non- > > > > self > > > > > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2007 Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 If death wakes me up one day, and asks, what did you do with your time on earth, I can proudly announce, " I evaporated with this entire message " . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2007 Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 There is no no. zen Illusion needs no no for it's appearance, which makes it real, really. Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " zen_mirror " <zen_mirror@> wrote: > > > > The mirror who else, is there. > > The fiction, fatamorgana, fantasy. > > > > There are countless names for the one, > > some even call it none. > > > > zen > > > > there is name. > > there is mirror. > > there is such fucking thing as mirage in the strait of messina.. > > you enjoy fantasies don't you? > > 'tis ok chap.. > > there is 'you' in any case. > > your teacher, > > .b b.b. > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " > > <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Virgil " <v.halbred@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Intellectual understanding has to sink down to the heart or it > > > > will be of limited value in transforming you. > > > > > > > > vh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > who's the 'you' to be transformed? > > > > > > from what to which? > > > > > > all is change but nothing changes. > > > > > > value is a judgment call. > > > > > > who set you up as an authority able to estimate worth or quality? > > > > > > must be a burden huh? > > > > > > that burden and the 'one' who believes that he carries it.. > > > > > > same same same same same.. > > > > > > wake up and smell the vapors that aren't really there. > > > > > > nonexistent phase transitions of equal and no 'value'. > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > > > > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " zen_mirror " <zen_mirror@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > intellectual understanding? > > > > > > > > > > > > Self is me, non-self is you. > > > > > > > > > > > > was that intellectual enough? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there is nobody else....but " you " ...who could know the answer > > > > > > > > > > good luck > > > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > > > > > > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " tom " <jeusisbuen@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even the intellectual understanding of the inexistence of > > > > > > > our 'selves' > > > > > > > > is a rare and bitter attainment which few even attempt. > > And > > > > > that > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > only the elimination round which qualifies us for access > > to > > > > > > > Reality... > > > > > > > > Intellectual understanding should be not indispensable to > > > > > > a 'simple' > > > > > > > > mind, but, with our conditioning, it would seem to be an > > > > almost > > > > > > > > inevitable preliminary. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there is self....and non-self... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > without (intellectual) understanding.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it's impossible to make/see the difference between self and > > > > non- > > > > > self > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2007 Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 Nisargadatta , " zen_mirror " <zen_mirror wrote: > > If death wakes me up one day, > and asks, what did you do with your time on earth, > I can proudly announce, > " I evaporated with this entire message " . you've added bad drugs to the booze i see. if you've evaporated.. how the fuck are you going to announce anything. jesus! get a grip fella. ..b b.b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2007 Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 Nisargadatta , " zen_mirror " <zen_mirror wrote: > > There is no no. > > zen > > Illusion needs no no for it's appearance, > which makes it real, really. if that's true... what's the need of saying it. you enjoy bullshitting yourself with your own fantasies. nice vacation huh? when do you intend to return...to reality? ..b b.b. > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " > <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " zen_mirror " <zen_mirror@> > wrote: > > > > > > The mirror who else, is there. > > > The fiction, fatamorgana, fantasy. > > > > > > There are countless names for the one, > > > some even call it none. > > > > > > zen > > > > > > > > there is name. > > > > there is mirror. > > > > there is such fucking thing as mirage in the strait of messina.. > > > > you enjoy fantasies don't you? > > > > 'tis ok chap.. > > > > there is 'you' in any case. > > > > your teacher, > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " > > > <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Virgil " <v.halbred@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Intellectual understanding has to sink down to the heart or > it > > > > > will be of limited value in transforming you. > > > > > > > > > > vh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > who's the 'you' to be transformed? > > > > > > > > from what to which? > > > > > > > > all is change but nothing changes. > > > > > > > > value is a judgment call. > > > > > > > > who set you up as an authority able to estimate worth or > quality? > > > > > > > > must be a burden huh? > > > > > > > > that burden and the 'one' who believes that he carries it.. > > > > > > > > same same same same same.. > > > > > > > > wake up and smell the vapors that aren't really there. > > > > > > > > nonexistent phase transitions of equal and no 'value'. > > > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > > > > > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " zen_mirror " > <zen_mirror@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > intellectual understanding? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Self is me, non-self is you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > was that intellectual enough? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there is nobody else....but " you " ...who could know the > answer > > > > > > > > > > > > good luck > > > > > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > > > > > > > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " tom " > <jeusisbuen@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even the intellectual understanding of the > inexistence of > > > > > > > > our 'selves' > > > > > > > > > is a rare and bitter attainment which few even > attempt. > > > And > > > > > > that > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > only the elimination round which qualifies us for > access > > > to > > > > > > > > Reality... > > > > > > > > > Intellectual understanding should be not > indispensable to > > > > > > > a 'simple' > > > > > > > > > mind, but, with our conditioning, it would seem to be > an > > > > > almost > > > > > > > > > inevitable preliminary. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there is self....and non-self... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > without (intellectual) understanding.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it's impossible to make/see the difference between self > and > > > > > non- > > > > > > self > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2007 Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 Nisargadatta , " Virgil " <v.halbred wrote: > > Intellectual understanding has to sink down to the heart or it > will be of limited value in transforming you. > > vh sure.....you are right without heart.....no transformation without heart...no meditation.... ..... Marc > > In Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " zen_mirror " <zen_mirror@> > > wrote: > > > > > > intellectual understanding? > > > > > > Self is me, non-self is you. > > > > > > was that intellectual enough? > > > > > > there is nobody else....but " you " ...who could know the answer > > > > good luck > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > > > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " tom " <jeusisbuen@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Even the intellectual understanding of the inexistence of > > > > our 'selves' > > > > > is a rare and bitter attainment which few even attempt. And > > that > > > is > > > > > only the elimination round which qualifies us for access to > > > > Reality... > > > > > Intellectual understanding should be not indispensable to > > > a 'simple' > > > > > mind, but, with our conditioning, it would seem to be an > almost > > > > > inevitable preliminary. > > > > > > > > > > > > there is self....and non-self... > > > > > > > > without (intellectual) understanding.... > > > > > > > > it's impossible to make/see the difference between self and > non- > > self > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2007 Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Virgil " <v.halbred@> wrote: > > > > Intellectual understanding has to sink down to the heart or it > > will be of limited value in transforming you. > > > > vh > > sure.....you are right > without heart.....no transformation > > without heart...no meditation.... > > .... > > Marc i like the heart.. it's got a nice beat and you can dance to it. and when the 'nicks' and the 'les' are added to that beat... you can play bongos, read poetry... play music and conquer the world. hipsters and hippies and heartfelt homilies. like that would be like totally cool. ..b b.b. > > In Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " zen_mirror " <zen_mirror@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > intellectual understanding? > > > > > > > > Self is me, non-self is you. > > > > > > > > was that intellectual enough? > > > > > > > > > there is nobody else....but " you " ...who could know the answer > > > > > > good luck > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > > > > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " tom " <jeusisbuen@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Even the intellectual understanding of the inexistence of > > > > > our 'selves' > > > > > > is a rare and bitter attainment which few even attempt. And > > > that > > > > is > > > > > > only the elimination round which qualifies us for access to > > > > > Reality... > > > > > > Intellectual understanding should be not indispensable to > > > > a 'simple' > > > > > > mind, but, with our conditioning, it would seem to be an > > almost > > > > > > inevitable preliminary. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there is self....and non-self... > > > > > > > > > > without (intellectual) understanding.... > > > > > > > > > > it's impossible to make/see the difference between self and > > non- > > > self > > > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 1, 2008 Report Share Posted January 1, 2008 Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Virgil " <v.halbred@> wrote: > > > > > > Intellectual understanding has to sink down to the heart or it > > > will be of limited value in transforming you. > > > > > > vh > > > > sure.....you are right > > without heart.....no transformation > > > > without heart...no meditation.... > > > > .... > > > > Marc > > > > i like the heart.. > > it's got a nice beat and you can dance to it. > > and when the 'nicks' and the 'les' are added to that beat... > > you can play bongos, read poetry... > > play music and conquer the world. > > hipsters and hippies and heartfelt homilies. > > like that would be like totally cool. > > .b b.b. LOL (sure that you would like to be totally cool?) Happy NEW YEAR! BEST WISHES Marc > > > > > In Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > > > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " zen_mirror " <zen_mirror@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > intellectual understanding? > > > > > > > > > > Self is me, non-self is you. > > > > > > > > > > was that intellectual enough? > > > > > > > > > > > > there is nobody else....but " you " ...who could know the answer > > > > > > > > good luck > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > > > > > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " tom " <jeusisbuen@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even the intellectual understanding of the inexistence of > > > > > > our 'selves' > > > > > > > is a rare and bitter attainment which few even attempt. And > > > > that > > > > > is > > > > > > > only the elimination round which qualifies us for access to > > > > > > Reality... > > > > > > > Intellectual understanding should be not indispensable to > > > > > a 'simple' > > > > > > > mind, but, with our conditioning, it would seem to be an > > > almost > > > > > > > inevitable preliminary. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there is self....and non-self... > > > > > > > > > > > > without (intellectual) understanding.... > > > > > > > > > > > > it's impossible to make/see the difference between self and > > > non- > > > > self > > > > > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 1, 2008 Report Share Posted January 1, 2008 Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111 wrote: You stands for limited consciousness. Transformed to unlimited consciousness, where ther is neither you nor me. Consciousness reigns Alone, with no subjects to rule. It has always been like that, but eyes are shut. An eye opener is required. Who knows from where it will come. vh Nisargadatta , " Virgil " <v.halbred@> wrote: > > > > Intellectual understanding has to sink down to the heart or it > > will be of limited value in transforming you. > > > > vh > > > > > who's the 'you' to be transformed? > > from what to which? > > all is change but nothing changes. > > value is a judgment call. > > who set you up as an authority able to estimate worth or quality? > > must be a burden huh? > > that burden and the 'one' who believes that he carries it.. > > same same same same same.. > > wake up and smell the vapors that aren't really there. > > nonexistent phase transitions of equal and no 'value'. > > .b b.b. > > > > > > > In Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " zen_mirror " <zen_mirror@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > intellectual understanding? > > > > > > > > Self is me, non-self is you. > > > > > > > > was that intellectual enough? > > > > > > > > > there is nobody else....but " you " ...who could know the answer > > > > > > good luck > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > > > > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " tom " <jeusisbuen@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Even the intellectual understanding of the inexistence of > > > > > our 'selves' > > > > > > is a rare and bitter attainment which few even attempt. And > > > that > > > > is > > > > > > only the elimination round which qualifies us for access to > > > > > Reality... > > > > > > Intellectual understanding should be not indispensable to > > > > a 'simple' > > > > > > mind, but, with our conditioning, it would seem to be an > > almost > > > > > > inevitable preliminary. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there is self....and non-self... > > > > > > > > > > without (intellectual) understanding.... > > > > > > > > > > it's impossible to make/see the difference between self and > > non- > > > self > > > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 1, 2008 Report Share Posted January 1, 2008 Nisargadatta , " Virgil " <v.halbred wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " > <Roberibus111@> wrote: > You stands for limited consciousness. Transformed to unlimited > consciousness, where ther is neither you nor me. > Consciousness reigns Alone, with no subjects to rule. > It has always been like that, but eyes are shut. An eye opener is > required. Who knows from where it will come. > > vh well virg., you might try a shot of scotch whiskey for an eye opener. it sure ain't gonna come from what you think or say.. and say guy.. from what you say.. you're talkin' to yourself. that requires psychotherapeutic drugs even more than scotch. and uh... if it's the Absolute that you seek.. don't limit it with a handle like 'unlimited consciousness'. that limits it to only what seems unlimited to the phantom 'mind'. rather a dismal and prosaic take on the Absolute. just give it time.. maturity happens of itself for each and every. what is IS. all the rest is bullshit, delusion, egomania. but all that's fun too. if it weren't for all that... there would be no seeking THAT. kind of a catch-2 for the ONE. dig? if not.... it's ok. 'you' never will. Understanding annihilates that little monkey. ..b b.b. > Nisargadatta , " Virgil " <v.halbred@> wrote: > > > > > > Intellectual understanding has to sink down to the heart or it > > > will be of limited value in transforming you. > > > > > > vh > > > > > > > > > > who's the 'you' to be transformed? > > > > from what to which? > > > > all is change but nothing changes. > > > > value is a judgment call. > > > > who set you up as an authority able to estimate worth or quality? > > > > must be a burden huh? > > > > that burden and the 'one' who believes that he carries it.. > > > > same same same same same.. > > > > wake up and smell the vapors that aren't really there. > > > > nonexistent phase transitions of equal and no 'value'. > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > > > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " zen_mirror " > <zen_mirror@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > intellectual understanding? > > > > > > > > > > Self is me, non-self is you. > > > > > > > > > > was that intellectual enough? > > > > > > > > > > > > there is nobody else....but " you " ...who could know the answer > > > > > > > > good luck > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > > > > > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " tom " <jeusisbuen@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even the intellectual understanding of the inexistence > of > > > > > > our 'selves' > > > > > > > is a rare and bitter attainment which few even attempt. > And > > > > that > > > > > is > > > > > > > only the elimination round which qualifies us for access > to > > > > > > Reality... > > > > > > > Intellectual understanding should be not indispensable > to > > > > > a 'simple' > > > > > > > mind, but, with our conditioning, it would seem to be an > > > almost > > > > > > > inevitable preliminary. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there is self....and non-self... > > > > > > > > > > > > without (intellectual) understanding.... > > > > > > > > > > > > it's impossible to make/see the difference between self > and > > > non- > > > > self > > > > > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 1, 2008 Report Share Posted January 1, 2008 Fine b b Better gin with prune juice. Absolutely talking to myself. There is no other to talk to. It is the Absolute 100% proof, you are right. You uncover what is covered, unlimited is a gentler term. As for it to brew, when given time, I would say eternity can wait for eternity and maturity is like brewing beer, you can not rush it. The monkey, jumping from this branch to that; is shot down with the arrow of wisdom. Hilarious for eternity to post for itself. vh In Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Virgil " <v.halbred@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " > > <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > You stands for limited consciousness. Transformed to unlimited > > consciousness, where ther is neither you nor me. > > Consciousness reigns Alone, with no subjects to rule. > > It has always been like that, but eyes are shut. An eye opener is > > required. Who knows from where it will come. > > > > vh > > > well virg., > > you might try a shot of scotch whiskey for an eye opener. > > it sure ain't gonna come from what you think or say.. > > and say guy.. > > from what you say.. > > you're talkin' to yourself. > > that requires psychotherapeutic drugs even more than scotch. > > and uh... > > if it's the Absolute that you seek.. > > don't limit it with a handle like 'unlimited consciousness'. > > that limits it to only what seems unlimited to the phantom 'mind'. > > rather a dismal and prosaic take on the Absolute. > > just give it time.. > > maturity happens of itself for each and every. > > what is IS. > > all the rest is bullshit, delusion, egomania. > > but all that's fun too. > > if it weren't for all that... > > there would be no seeking THAT. > > kind of a catch-2 for the ONE. > > dig? > > if not.... it's ok. > > 'you' never will. > > Understanding annihilates that little monkey. > > .b b.b. > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Virgil " <v.halbred@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Intellectual understanding has to sink down to the heart or it > > > > will be of limited value in transforming you. > > > > > > > > vh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > who's the 'you' to be transformed? > > > > > > from what to which? > > > > > > all is change but nothing changes. > > > > > > value is a judgment call. > > > > > > who set you up as an authority able to estimate worth or quality? > > > > > > must be a burden huh? > > > > > > that burden and the 'one' who believes that he carries it.. > > > > > > same same same same same.. > > > > > > wake up and smell the vapors that aren't really there. > > > > > > nonexistent phase transitions of equal and no 'value'. > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > > > > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " zen_mirror " > > <zen_mirror@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > intellectual understanding? > > > > > > > > > > > > Self is me, non-self is you. > > > > > > > > > > > > was that intellectual enough? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there is nobody else....but " you " ...who could know the answer > > > > > > > > > > good luck > > > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > > > > > > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " tom " <jeusisbuen@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even the intellectual understanding of the inexistence > > of > > > > > > > our 'selves' > > > > > > > > is a rare and bitter attainment which few even attempt. > > And > > > > > that > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > only the elimination round which qualifies us for access > > to > > > > > > > Reality... > > > > > > > > Intellectual understanding should be not indispensable > > to > > > > > > a 'simple' > > > > > > > > mind, but, with our conditioning, it would seem to be an > > > > almost > > > > > > > > inevitable preliminary. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there is self....and non-self... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > without (intellectual) understanding.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it's impossible to make/see the difference between self > > and > > > > non- > > > > > self > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 1, 2008 Report Share Posted January 1, 2008 Nisargadatta , " Virgil " <v.halbred wrote: > > Fine b b > Better gin with prune juice. > Absolutely talking to myself. There is no other to talk to. > It is the Absolute 100% proof, you are right. > You uncover what is covered, unlimited is a gentler term. > As for it to brew, when given time, I would say eternity can > wait for eternity and maturity is like brewing beer, you can not > rush it. > The monkey, jumping from this branch to that; is shot down with the > arrow of wisdom. > Hilarious for eternity to post for itself. > > vh sounds like extreme unction... or holy orders.. ..b b.b. > In Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Virgil " <v.halbred@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " > > > <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > You stands for limited consciousness. Transformed to unlimited > > > consciousness, where ther is neither you nor me. > > > Consciousness reigns Alone, with no subjects to rule. > > > It has always been like that, but eyes are shut. An eye opener > is > > > required. Who knows from where it will come. > > > > > > vh > > > > > > well virg., > > > > you might try a shot of scotch whiskey for an eye opener. > > > > it sure ain't gonna come from what you think or say.. > > > > and say guy.. > > > > from what you say.. > > > > you're talkin' to yourself. > > > > that requires psychotherapeutic drugs even more than scotch. > > > > and uh... > > > > if it's the Absolute that you seek.. > > > > don't limit it with a handle like 'unlimited consciousness'. > > > > that limits it to only what seems unlimited to the phantom 'mind'. > > > > rather a dismal and prosaic take on the Absolute. > > > > just give it time.. > > > > maturity happens of itself for each and every. > > > > what is IS. > > > > all the rest is bullshit, delusion, egomania. > > > > but all that's fun too. > > > > if it weren't for all that... > > > > there would be no seeking THAT. > > > > kind of a catch-2 for the ONE. > > > > dig? > > > > if not.... it's ok. > > > > 'you' never will. > > > > Understanding annihilates that little monkey. > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Virgil " <v.halbred@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Intellectual understanding has to sink down to the heart > or it > > > > > will be of limited value in transforming you. > > > > > > > > > > vh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > who's the 'you' to be transformed? > > > > > > > > from what to which? > > > > > > > > all is change but nothing changes. > > > > > > > > value is a judgment call. > > > > > > > > who set you up as an authority able to estimate worth or > quality? > > > > > > > > must be a burden huh? > > > > > > > > that burden and the 'one' who believes that he carries it.. > > > > > > > > same same same same same.. > > > > > > > > wake up and smell the vapors that aren't really there. > > > > > > > > nonexistent phase transitions of equal and no 'value'. > > > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > > > > > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " zen_mirror " > > > <zen_mirror@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > intellectual understanding? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Self is me, non-self is you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > was that intellectual enough? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there is nobody else....but " you " ...who could know the > answer > > > > > > > > > > > > good luck > > > > > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > > > > > > > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " tom " > <jeusisbuen@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even the intellectual understanding of the > inexistence > > > of > > > > > > > > our 'selves' > > > > > > > > > is a rare and bitter attainment which few even > attempt. > > > And > > > > > > that > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > only the elimination round which qualifies us for > access > > > to > > > > > > > > Reality... > > > > > > > > > Intellectual understanding should be not > indispensable > > > to > > > > > > > a 'simple' > > > > > > > > > mind, but, with our conditioning, it would seem to > be an > > > > > almost > > > > > > > > > inevitable preliminary. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there is self....and non-self... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > without (intellectual) understanding.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it's impossible to make/see the difference between > self > > > and > > > > > non- > > > > > > self > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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