Guest guest Posted April 5, 2008 Report Share Posted April 5, 2008 yes yes yes I agree... no no no I dont agree... this game has been going on since before man created words... and it is still going strong in the lands of muscles... but why dont we just let go of this game completely and just most naturaly find ourselves in the city of wisdom... ....iietsa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 5, 2008 Report Share Posted April 5, 2008 In a message dated 4/4/2008 11:02:49 PM Pacific Daylight Time, iietsa writes: yes yes yes I agree...no no no I dont agree...this game has been going on since before man created words...and it is still going strong in the lands of muscles...but why dont we just let go of this game completely and just most naturaly find ourselves in the city of wisdom......iietsa Hi Iietsa I disagree. Hehe. I know the question is rhetorical and the degree of silliness going on here right now is clear, but a friend put it nicely the other day. 'We're looking at why it is that we don't already see everything as perfect.' Discussions may consist of mere words but words can express boundaries of anger, judgment and fear that may only be looked at in relationship with what is ultimately our own reflection. Words can also be an expression of love, of a depth of creative passion, a plea for help or an offering of compassion. Words can move and inspire as well as terrorize and disgust. The words themselves are not inherently meaningful, the movement behind the words can be very powerful. I don't quite know what to do in this particular forum, but it's clear that one does not move from ignorance to wisdom by avoiding looking in the mirror and refusing to play the game. Wisdom comes out of a dance with otherness, a vulnerability and willingness that shakes the foundations of ones illusions, leaving you naked but not alone in your nakedness. This otherness is here; you are here in the deepest part of my own mind, and here we dance, you and I, behind the words, in spite of the violence and emptiness of those words. There is a kind of vertical expansion and depth that happens here when I know that you are here with me, and in that open expanse is the wisdom. Whatever it looks like 'out there', in here, we are dancing, and that's why I'm here. Phil Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 7, 2008 Report Share Posted April 7, 2008 In a message dated 4/7/2008 1:22:13 PM Pacific Daylight Time, iietsa writes: Nisargadatta , souldreamone wrote:>> > In a message dated 4/4/2008 11:02:49 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > iietsa writes:> > yes yes yes I agree...> no no no I dont agree...> this game has been going on since before man created words...> and it is still going strong in the lands of muscles...> but why dont we just let go of this game completely and just most > naturaly find ourselves in the city of wisdom...> ...iietsa> > > > Hi Iietsa> I disagree. Hehe. > I know the question is rhetorical and the degree of silliness going on here > right now is clear, but a friend put it nicely the other day. 'We're looking > at why it is that we don't already see everything as perfect.' > > Discussions may consist of mere words but words can express boundaries of > anger, judgment and fear that may only be looked at in relationship with what > is ultimately our own reflection. Words can also be an expression of love, of a > depth of creative passion, a plea for help or an offering of compassion. > Words can move and inspire as well as terrorize and disgust. The words > themselves are not inherently meaningful, the movement behind the words can be very > powerful.> > I don't quite know what to do in this particular forum, but it's clear that > one does not move from ignorance to wisdom by avoiding looking in the mirror > and refusing to play the game. Wisdom comes out of a dance with otherness, a > vulnerability and willingness that shakes the foundations of ones illusions, > leaving you naked but not alone in your nakedness. This otherness is here; you > are here in the deepest part of my own mind, and here we dance, you and I, > behind the words, in spite of the violence and emptiness of those words. There > is a kind of vertical expansion and depth that happens here when I know that > you are here with me, and in that open expanse is the wisdom. Whatever it > looks like 'out there', in here, we are dancing, and that's why I'm here.> Phil...what is it that can be inspired or terrorized ?...and what is it that is moving from ignorance to wisdom ?...iietsa Who's asking? Who is it that you suggest "let go of this game completely"? Who is it who will "naturally find ourselves in the city of wisdom"? I'm not particularly impressed by the nondual dodge of formulating a perspective and then dismising the perspectives of others with concepts that have no reality for you. Wayne Liquorman said something refreshing in his last newsletter. He said something to the effect that this talk is for humans who exist, and if you don't think you do, go away and come back later when you get over that. Phil Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 7, 2008 Report Share Posted April 7, 2008 Nisargadatta , souldreamone wrote: > > > In a message dated 4/4/2008 11:02:49 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > iietsa writes: > > yes yes yes I agree... > no no no I dont agree... > this game has been going on since before man created words... > and it is still going strong in the lands of muscles... > but why dont we just let go of this game completely and just most > naturaly find ourselves in the city of wisdom... > ...iietsa > > > > Hi Iietsa > I disagree. Hehe. > I know the question is rhetorical and the degree of silliness going on here > right now is clear, but a friend put it nicely the other day. 'We're looking > at why it is that we don't already see everything as perfect.' > > Discussions may consist of mere words but words can express boundaries of > anger, judgment and fear that may only be looked at in relationship with what > is ultimately our own reflection. Words can also be an expression of love, of a > depth of creative passion, a plea for help or an offering of compassion. > Words can move and inspire as well as terrorize and disgust. The words > themselves are not inherently meaningful, the movement behind the words can be very > powerful. > > I don't quite know what to do in this particular forum, but it's clear that > one does not move from ignorance to wisdom by avoiding looking in the mirror > and refusing to play the game. Wisdom comes out of a dance with otherness, a > vulnerability and willingness that shakes the foundations of ones illusions, > leaving you naked but not alone in your nakedness. This otherness is here; you > are here in the deepest part of my own mind, and here we dance, you and I, > behind the words, in spite of the violence and emptiness of those words. There > is a kind of vertical expansion and depth that happens here when I know that > you are here with me, and in that open expanse is the wisdom. Whatever it > looks like 'out there', in here, we are dancing, and that's why I'm here. > Phil ....what is it that can be inspired or terrorized ? ....and what is it that is moving from ignorance to wisdom ? ....iietsa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 7, 2008 Report Share Posted April 7, 2008 Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa wrote: > > Nisargadatta , souldreamone@ wrote: > > > > > > In a message dated 4/4/2008 11:02:49 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > > iietsa@ writes: > > > > yes yes yes I agree... > > no no no I dont agree... > > this game has been going on since before man created words... > > and it is still going strong in the lands of muscles... > > but why dont we just let go of this game completely and just most > > naturaly find ourselves in the city of wisdom... > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > Hi Iietsa > > I disagree. Hehe. > > I know the question is rhetorical and the degree of silliness going > on here > > right now is clear, but a friend put it nicely the other > day. 'We're looking > > at why it is that we don't already see everything as perfect.' > > > > Discussions may consist of mere words but words can express > boundaries of > > anger, judgment and fear that may only be looked at in relationship > with what > > is ultimately our own reflection. Words can also be an expression > of love, of a > > depth of creative passion, a plea for help or an offering of > compassion. > > Words can move and inspire as well as terrorize and disgust. The > words > > themselves are not inherently meaningful, the movement behind the > words can be very > > powerful. > > > > I don't quite know what to do in this particular forum, but it's > clear that > > one does not move from ignorance to wisdom by avoiding looking in > the mirror > > and refusing to play the game. Wisdom comes out of a dance with > otherness, a > > vulnerability and willingness that shakes the foundations of ones > illusions, > > leaving you naked but not alone in your nakedness. This otherness > is here; you > > are here in the deepest part of my own mind, and here we dance, > you and I, > > behind the words, in spite of the violence and emptiness of those > words. There > > is a kind of vertical expansion and depth that happens here when I > know that > > you are here with me, and in that open expanse is the wisdom. > Whatever it > > looks like 'out there', in here, we are dancing, and that's why > I'm here. > > Phil > > ...what is it that can be inspired or terrorized ? > ...and what is it that is moving from ignorance to wisdom ? > ...iietsa nothing. (it's not an 'it') ..b b.b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 8, 2008 Report Share Posted April 8, 2008 Nisargadatta , souldreamone wrote: > > > In a message dated 4/7/2008 1:22:13 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > iietsa writes: > > Nisargadatta , souldreamone@ wrote: > > > > > > In a message dated 4/4/2008 11:02:49 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > > iietsa@ writes: > > > > yes yes yes I agree... > > no no no I dont agree... > > this game has been going on since before man created words... > > and it is still going strong in the lands of muscles... > > but why dont we just let go of this game completely and just most > > naturaly find ourselves in the city of wisdom... > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > Hi Iietsa > > I disagree. Hehe. > > I know the question is rhetorical and the degree of silliness going > on here > > right now is clear, but a friend put it nicely the other > day. 'We're looking > > at why it is that we don't already see everything as perfect.' > > > > Discussions may consist of mere words but words can express > boundaries of > > anger, judgment and fear that may only be looked at in relationship > with what > > is ultimately our own reflection. Words can also be an expression > of love, of a > > depth of creative passion, a plea for help or an offering of > compassion. > > Words can move and inspire as well as terrorize and disgust. The > words > > themselves are not inherently meaningful, the movement behind the > words can be very > > powerful. > > > > I don't quite know what to do in this particular forum, but it's > clear that > > one does not move from ignorance to wisdom by avoiding looking in > the mirror > > and refusing to play the game. Wisdom comes out of a dance with > otherness, a > > vulnerability and willingness that shakes the foundations of ones > illusions, > > leaving you naked but not alone in your nakedness. This otherness > is here; you > > are here in the deepest part of my own mind, and here we dance, > you and I, > > behind the words, in spite of the violence and emptiness of those > words. There > > is a kind of vertical expansion and depth that happens here when I > know that > > you are here with me, and in that open expanse is the wisdom. > Whatever it > > looks like 'out there', in here, we are dancing, and that's why > I'm here. > > Phil > > ...what is it that can be inspired or terrorized ? > ...and what is it that is moving from ignorance to wisdom ? > ...iietsa > > > > > Who's asking? Who is it that you suggest " let go of this game completely " ? > Who is it who will " naturally find ourselves in the city of wisdom " ? > I'm not particularly impressed by the nondual dodge of formulating a > perspective and then dismising the perspectives of others with concepts that have no > reality for you. > > Wayne Liquorman said something refreshing in his last newsletter. He said > something to the effect that this talk is for humans who exist, and if you don't > think you do, go away and come back later when you get over that. > > Phil > there is nobody to do the letting go...it is just left alone all by itself...not even by itself...because there is no external power... and so naturaly there is nothing to go away and nothing to get back and nothing to get over...I dont know this wayne liquorman...mabe you are impressed by (him) or the words of (his)... but (his) words seems to be directed to " whos " ... I am not looking to impress... simply because there is nothing worth impressing... ....iietsa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 8, 2008 Report Share Posted April 8, 2008 In a message dated 4/7/2008 11:57:10 PM Pacific Daylight Time, iietsa writes: > > Who's asking? Who is it that you suggest "let go of this game completely"? > Who is it who will "naturally find ourselves in the city of wisdom"?> I'm not particularly impressed by the nondual dodge of formulating a > perspective and then dismising the perspectives of others with concepts that have no > reality for you. > > Wayne Liquorman said something refreshing in his last newsletter. He said > something to the effect that this talk is for humans who exist, and if you don't > think you do, go away and come back later when you get over that.> > Phil> there is nobody to do the letting go...it is just left alone all by itself...not even by itself...because there is no external power...and so naturaly there is nothing to go away and nothing to get back and nothing to get over...I dont know this wayne liquorman...mabe you are impressed by (him) or the words of (his)...but (his) words seems to be directed to "whos"...I am not looking to impress...simply because there is nothing worth impressing......iietsa Wayne is just another teacher, but I appreciate the way he sometimes cuts through all the nondual nonsense. You might know him by his pen name, Ram Tzu. He's part of the advaita fellowship along with Niz. Advaita Fellowship Words are always directed toward listeners. It's only in students of nonduality that such confusion can arise. So, there is no external power to the human person? Apparently, there is also no internal power, so how do you suppose it functions? I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm just suggesting that if you were to fall into the delusion that you are the tree in your back yard, you might hear folks say there's nothing there and you are not really growing leaves or digging your roots into the ground or waving your branches, and there's no need for you to fear the lumberjack. If you conclude from this that you don't really exist, perhaps the point has been missed. Wadayathink? Phil Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2008 Report Share Posted April 9, 2008 Nisargadatta , souldreamone wrote: > > > In a message dated 4/7/2008 11:57:10 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > iietsa writes: > > > > > Who's asking? Who is it that you suggest " let go of this game > completely " ? > > Who is it who will " naturally find ourselves in the city of wisdom " ? > > I'm not particularly impressed by the nondual dodge of formulating > a > > perspective and then dismising the perspectives of others with > concepts that have no > > reality for you. > > > > Wayne Liquorman said something refreshing in his last newsletter. > He said > > something to the effect that this talk is for humans who exist, and > if you don't > > think you do, go away and come back later when you get over that. > > > > Phil > > > > > there is nobody to do the letting go...it is just left alone all by > itself...not even by itself...because there is no external power... > and so naturaly there is nothing to go away and nothing to get back > and nothing to get over...I dont know this wayne liquorman...mabe you > are impressed by (him) or the words of (his)... > but (his) words seems to be directed to " whos " ... > I am not looking to impress... > simply because there is nothing worth impressing... > ...iietsa > > > > Wayne is just another teacher, but I appreciate the way he sometimes cuts > through all the nondual nonsense. You might know him by his pen name, Ram Tzu. > He's part of the advaita fellowship along with Niz. > > _Advaita Fellowship_ (http://www.advaita.org/) > > Words are always directed toward listeners. It's only in students of > nonduality that such confusion can arise. So, there is no external power to the > human person? Apparently, there is also no internal power, so how do you suppose > it functions? I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm just suggesting that if > you were to fall into the delusion that you are the tree in your back yard, > you might hear folks say there's nothing there and you are not really growing > leaves or digging your roots into the ground or waving your branches, and > there's no need for you to fear the lumberjack. If you conclude from this that > you don't really exist, perhaps the point has been missed. Wadayathink? > > Phil it is simply functioning...I am not interested much enough to go there...there was a time when I took myself for what I was not...and in that specific time-period I could just as well taken myself for a tree...growing leaves and digging roots...and perhaps fearing the lumberjack...so what...whats the big deal...I just dont play that game anymore...all the luck to the appeaing players... ....iietsa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2008 Report Share Posted April 10, 2008 In a message dated 4/9/2008 10:17:58 AM Pacific Daylight Time, iietsa writes: > Wayne is just another teacher, but I appreciate the way he sometimes cuts > through all the nondual nonsense. You might know him by his pen name, Ram Tzu. > He's part of the advaita fellowship along with Niz. > > _Advaita Fellowship_ (http://www.advaita.org/) > > Words are always directed toward listeners. It's only in students of > nonduality that such confusion can arise. So, there is no external power to the > human person? Apparently, there is also no internal power, so how do you suppose > it functions? I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm just suggesting that if > you were to fall into the delusion that you are the tree in your back yard, > you might hear folks say there's nothing there and you are not really growing > leaves or digging your roots into the ground or waving your branches, and > there's no need for you to fear the lumberjack. If you conclude from this that > you don't really exist, perhaps the point has been missed. Wadayathink?> > Philit is simply functioning...I am not interested much enough to go there...there was a time when I took myself for what I was not...and in that specific time-period I could just as well taken myself for a tree...growing leaves and digging roots...and perhaps fearing the lumberjack...so what...whats the big deal...I just dont play that game anymore...all the luck to the appeaing players......iietsa You DO play that game, and you also play the game of pretending not to play that game. You DO take yourself for what you are not, as we all do. Trying to act out an additional role on top of that delusion, like you and Booby are doing each in your own ways, only compounds the delusion. It cannot end it. Phil Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2008 Report Share Posted April 10, 2008 In a message dated 4/10/2008 12:28:40 AM Pacific Daylight Time, iietsa writes: > You DO play that game, and you also play the game of pretending not to play > that game. You DO take yourself for what you are not, as we all do. Trying to > act out an additional role on top of that delusion, like you and Booby are > doing each in your own ways, only compounds the delusion. It cannot end it.> > Phil> you take yourself for acting in the game...I dont...I see it all as a dream...a play in consciosness...you are there prior to the highs and lows...to identify as a player is the only delusion...be pure and let the game begin...go on...and end...by itself......iietsa To KNOW that you are not the dream character is identical with Self Realization. I guess you get to stand over there with Boobi as the Awakened One. The rest of us will keep looking. PhilPlanning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2008 Report Share Posted April 10, 2008 Nisargadatta , souldreamone wrote: > > > In a message dated 4/9/2008 10:17:58 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > iietsa writes: > > > Wayne is just another teacher, but I appreciate the way he > sometimes cuts > > through all the nondual nonsense. You might know him by his pen > name, Ram Tzu. > > He's part of the advaita fellowship along with Niz. > > > > _Advaita Fellowship_ (http://www.advaita.org/) > > > > Words are always directed toward listeners. It's only in students > of > > nonduality that such confusion can arise. So, there is no external > power to the > > human person? Apparently, there is also no internal power, so how > do you suppose > > it functions? I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm just > suggesting that if > > you were to fall into the delusion that you are the tree in your > back yard, > > you might hear folks say there's nothing there and you are not > really growing > > leaves or digging your roots into the ground or waving your > branches, and > > there's no need for you to fear the lumberjack. If you conclude > from this that > > you don't really exist, perhaps the point has been missed. > Wadayathink? > > > > Phil > > > it is simply functioning...I am not interested much enough to go > there...there was a time when I took myself for what I was not...and > in that specific time-period I could just as well taken myself for a > tree...growing leaves and digging roots...and perhaps fearing the > lumberjack...so what...whats the big deal...I just dont play that > game anymore...all the luck to the appeaing players... > ...iietsa > > > > You DO play that game, and you also play the game of pretending not to play > that game. You DO take yourself for what you are not, as we all do. Trying to > act out an additional role on top of that delusion, like you and Booby are > doing each in your own ways, only compounds the delusion. It cannot end it. > > Phil > you take yourself for acting in the game...I dont... I see it all as a dream...a play in consciosness... you are there prior to the highs and lows... to identify as a player is the only delusion... be pure and let the game begin...go on...and end...by itself... ....iietsa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2008 Report Share Posted April 10, 2008 Nisargadatta , souldreamone wrote: > > > In a message dated 4/10/2008 12:28:40 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > iietsa writes: > > > You DO play that game, and you also play the game of pretending not > to play > > that game. You DO take yourself for what you are not, as we all do. > Trying to > > act out an additional role on top of that delusion, like you and > Booby are > > doing each in your own ways, only compounds the delusion. It > cannot end it. > > > > Phil > > > > you take yourself for acting in the game...I dont... > I see it all as a dream...a play in consciosness... > you are there prior to the highs and lows... > to identify as a player is the only delusion... > be pure and let the game begin...go on...and end...by itself... > ...iietsa > > > > To KNOW that you are not the dream character is identical with Self > Realization. I guess you get to stand over there with Boobi as the Awakened One. The > rest of us will keep looking. > > Phil > the one that is looking is the real Self... what the real Self is looking for is and can only be the not Self... keep looking...but not for the real Self... ....iietsa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2008 Report Share Posted April 10, 2008 Nisargadatta , souldreamone wrote: > > > In a message dated 4/9/2008 10:17:58 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > iietsa writes: > > > Wayne is just another teacher, but I appreciate the way he > sometimes cuts > > through all the nondual nonsense. You might know him by his pen > name, Ram Tzu. > > He's part of the advaita fellowship along with Niz. > > > > _Advaita Fellowship_ (http://www.advaita.org/) > > > > Words are always directed toward listeners. It's only in students > of > > nonduality that such confusion can arise. So, there is no external > power to the > > human person? Apparently, there is also no internal power, so how > do you suppose > > it functions? I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm just > suggesting that if > > you were to fall into the delusion that you are the tree in your > back yard, > > you might hear folks say there's nothing there and you are not > really growing > > leaves or digging your roots into the ground or waving your > branches, and > > there's no need for you to fear the lumberjack. If you conclude > from this that > > you don't really exist, perhaps the point has been missed. > Wadayathink? > > > > Phil > > > it is simply functioning...I am not interested much enough to go > there...there was a time when I took myself for what I was not...and > in that specific time-period I could just as well taken myself for a > tree...growing leaves and digging roots...and perhaps fearing the > lumberjack...so what...whats the big deal...I just dont play that > game anymore...all the luck to the appeaing players... > ...iietsa > > > > You DO play that game, and you also play the game of pretending not to play > that game. You DO take yourself for what you are not, as we all do. Trying to > act out an additional role on top of that delusion, like you and Booby are > doing each in your own ways, only compounds the delusion. It cannot end it. > > Phil well little phil... you're wrong in fact and in principle. again you have, out of context, referred to bobji. you need to lose your fascination with the baba. you obviously need use the baba.. as some sort of yardstick of great achievements. in many matters for which you have little or no understanding. a measure of greatness as it were. you cannot seem to lose your calf like infatuation with your mentor. it's getting a bit embarrassing philly. at least it should be for you. baba doesn't mind..it's rib ticking actually. but you must lose your delusional and faulty attributions re .b b.b. assume nor ascribe not little chum. you seem to be having much difficulty with this lesson. if you can't end your ignorance soon.. some may begin to assume that you are even denser than we had thought. good luck on the mission given to you philly. worry not though.. that silly and stupid and stupidly assuming 'self' will blow up.. at some time in the future.. and then your self inflicted hell of jealousy too will end. you will have arrived at TRUTH. but that's in another galaxy and time. :-) this from the one you can't let go of, ..b b.b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2008 Report Share Posted April 10, 2008 Nisargadatta , souldreamone wrote: > > > In a message dated 4/10/2008 12:28:40 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > iietsa writes: > > > You DO play that game, and you also play the game of pretending not > to play > > that game. You DO take yourself for what you are not, as we all do. > Trying to > > act out an additional role on top of that delusion, like you and > Booby are > > doing each in your own ways, only compounds the delusion. It > cannot end it. > > > > Phil > > > > you take yourself for acting in the game...I dont... > I see it all as a dream...a play in consciosness... > you are there prior to the highs and lows... > to identify as a player is the only delusion... > be pure and let the game begin...go on...and end...by itself... > ...iietsa > > > > To KNOW that you are not the dream character is identical with Self > Realization. I guess you get to stand over there with Boobi as the Awakened One. The > rest of us will keep looking. > > Phil keep looking for that 'knowledge of self'. it'll get you to the point of knowing yourself. that will be a big disappointment for you. when 'you' are gone.. when all notions of 'realization' are gone... when your belief in your silly beliefs is gone... then too will be gone your incomprehension. then THAT which is ALL that IS will eat 'you' alive. no more pontificating and no more lying to try and look good. the COMPANY of REALIZED, that is ONE, will shine as the ONE ABODE. until that time go right ahead and say foolish things. it's the very least We expect of you now. ..b b.b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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