Guest guest Posted April 8, 2008 Report Share Posted April 8, 2008 Nisargadatta , sujal <sujal_u wrote: > > Dear Jose, > > 'I AM' definetely means the true self and not ego. > But to think on 'I AM', we need the support of mind. > So we need to drop the word 'I AM' but not our true > self. It is like a pole volt. You take the support of > the pole (long stick 3-4 Mtrs long) to cross the cross > bar (which is the mind) and then drop the pole and > reach the other end. (divine bliss). > > Why there is the need to think on 'I AM'? To remove > all the other thoughts. Basically ours is a demanding > mind and mind is nothing but continous flow of > thoughts according to Ramana Maharshi. To realise our > true SELF, we need to remove all the other thoughts. > How can we remove other thoughts? First we should be > able to imagine what is our true nature. So by > thinking on our true nature, i.e. i am conciousness, i > am awareness, i am not the ego but the state where the > ego does not exists. i am peace, divine bliss. I am > beyond senses, beyond mind, etc. By thinking in such a > way, (which Sri Nisargadattaji Maharaj has pointed > out) we can develop all thoughts which are of similar > kind ( nature) and when our mind is filled with these > thougths then there is no space for worldly thoughts. > our mind is full of the thoughts which are related to > our SELF. In this way one pointedness is achieved. > Total surrenderance of the EGO to the SELF is the real > devotion according to Ramana Maharshi.When we are able > to do so we find the source of ego, where the ego does > not exists, but only the SELF exists. Everything > dissolves and only you exists i.e. pure awareness. > > This is the reason why Sri Nisargadattaji has told us > to think on 'I AM'. this is to reach one state i.e. > mind full of thoughts related to our SELF. > Then he says go beyond it. It does not mean that there > is something beyond our SELF. It means that DROP this > thought about 'I AM' (because the desire of knowing > our true nature is also a desire and distruction of > desires is nothing but liberation says Sri Adi > Sankaracharya) and then the mind is perfectly calm we > can go beyond the mind and realise our true self. If > you keep on thinking about 'I AM' still it is not > enough because to think means to involve the mind and > till you are within the mind you cannot go beyond the > mind. Now, to go beyond the mind or thoughts, we have > to be aware of this thoughts and try to find their > origin. The origin of thought is EGO, which is the > cause of duality, and the origin of EGO is the SELF. > If you are meditating then you can understand what do > i mean. > > As far as Buddhism is concerned, i cannot comment on > Buddhism and its principle of Shunyata - i.e. Soul > means nothing or emptyness or zero state. > > I have read Sri Ramana Maharshi's " 40 verses on truth " > and in that it is said that there is no state in which > you can deny your existance. So Who says (observes) > that the soul is the zero state is the SELF and not > the ZERO state. The knowner of zero state is the SELF. > > I hope this clears your doubt. > > AUM > > Sujal nice words.....interesting.... maybe there are people who are kind of too much attached to this " I Am " ....and so to the fiction of an ego......and so loosing inner attention there are people who take themself....means, their limited ego.....as " all there is " .....as the one and only subject..... .....and cause therefore constantly conflicts.....mainly with themself, means conflicts with their true self (also through the appearing contact to other similar ego's)...... Marc > > --- jose le roy <joseleroyfr wrote: > > > Hello, > > thank's for your answer but it seems to me that we > > can make some confusions about what we call " I AM " . > > one can listen here I AM = ego (the individual > > person with a name and a body). So if I am > > going beyond the I AM, I will discover the pure > > consciousness. For exemple some buddhist compare > > atman to the ego and non-atman means only non-ego, > > not non-awareness. > > But for other people (maybe for Niz), the I AM will > > mean the pure consciousness wich is without limit, > > without time, universal, and in which the world > > happens now. This pure consciousness is the source > > of the world. So in this case going beyong the pure > > consciousness is going also beyong all self because > > self = consciousness. Self means being conscious > > that I AM conscious. > > So what do you mean by I AM? > > thanks josé > > > > > > > > ----- Message d'origine ---- > > De : sujal_u <sujal_u > > À : Nisargadatta > > Envoyé le : Lundi, 7 Avril 2008, 15h24mn 45s > > Objet : Re: two states > > > > > > Dear Jose, > > > > The method tought by Sri Nisargadattaji involves the > > use of mind. The > > enquiry about 'I am' or to find out 'who Am I' by > > Sri Ramana Maharshi > > or chanting of 'AUM' is all the same. > > > > All these require you to sit and meditate. This > > process involves > > mental efforts. The reason for suggesting this kind > > of enquiry (about > > 'I am' or 'who am i') is that with the help of this > > al other thoughts > > are dissloved. The only thought that remains is the > > 'I am' or 'who am > > i' or the chanting of 'AUM'. But still, it is not > > the final state > > because, in this state, duality exists i.e. 1. the > > one who is > > chanting or making the enquiry and 2. and the one > > who observes the > > chanting. > > > > Now Sri Nisargadattaji askes us to go beyond the 'i > > am'. Who to go > > beyond 'i am'?. By trying to know from where the > > chanting or the > > enquiry has originated. i.e. the source. In ramana > > maharshi's words, > > the fire burns the corpse (which implies the > > desires) and then it > > also dies out. After you find the source from where > > this enquiry has > > originated, then everything dissolves and only the > > source, i.e. you > > or 'SELF' remains this is known as > > > > 'Nirvikapl Samadhi' > > > > Vikalp=changes > > NirVikalp= the one which does not changes > > Samadhi = state of awareness about our true nature > > > > Hence first we should try to enquire or find 'i am ' > > or 'who am i' > > and then go beyond it. > > > > A person who regularly meditating can understand > > this. > > > > Ramesh Balsaker is from Yoga. In Yoga, the > > philosophy, we have to > > tune with the body both gross and subtle. So it has > > its limitations > > and you need to go beyond kundalini. finally every > > thought has to be > > discarded. which people fail to do so as they have > > tuned with the > > body. So these people cannot go beyond or find > > diffucult or go beyond > > 'i amj' > > > > Hope this clears out > > > > Sincerely > > > > Sujal Upadhyay > > > > Nisargadatta, jose le roy > > <joseleroyfr@ ...> > > wrote: > > > > > > Dear members, > > > I am just joined you and I have a question. > > > It seems to me that Nisargaddat talked about two > > states: the first > > is the discovering of the " I am " , of the > > consciousness which is > > formless, without limit, divine. > > > But he asked us to go further, beyond the " I am " , > > beyong the > > consciousness. > > > Among the spiritual teachers today, it seems to me > > that they often > > make confusions between this two states maybe even > > Balsekar. > > > And it's difficult to find in the past teachers > > who are able to > > make this difference. > > > Do someone agree with me or am I reading > > Nisargadatta in the wrong > > way? > > > thanks > > > josé (from Paris, france) > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ > > _________ _ > > > > > Envoyez avec Mail. Une boite mail plus > > intelligente http:// > > mail..fr > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________________ _______ > > > > Envoyez avec Mail. Une boite mail plus > > intelligente http://mail..fr > > > > ____________________ ______________ > You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. > http://tc.deals./tc/blockbuster/text5.com > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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