Guest guest Posted April 9, 2008 Report Share Posted April 9, 2008 Excerpt from " I am unborn " " There is a customer for everything, but what is the cause of your beingness being the customer? The primary concept is the `I am', out of it are created all other concepts. You have come from the primary concept, so long as you have the need to be, you have this prolific wonderful world and all the Gods are available. The distinction between the world and Brahman has come because you want to sustain your beingness, the `I am', the manifest world is made important by you because you want to be. But when the need for beingness is not felt, like in sleep or in short, when consciousness is not conscious, there is no need. When consciousness is there, it will always need consciousness; when consciousness is not there, where is the need for anything at all? Of what use is the availability of the world? The world and its lord are only a nuisance in my state. The need to be is bondage, no needs no bondage. I will not be stupid and ask how I am in the absence of consciousness. There can be no talk about the state prior to consciousness. In the realm of consciousness are the experiences and all the talk. The one, who has recognized, understood and transcended oneself can talk, otherwise, one is caught in the pincer movement of Maya; you are caught by your own tentacles (identification with body-pincer). Because of your own deception, you ask questions, you are caught and enmeshed in more and more concepts. Information about myself in the absence of consciousness, nobody can tell me. I also don't need it, since that is so; you are non-plussed by me. I have full knowledge prior to beingness, which is eternal. In the waking state there is struggle and fatigue, in deep sleep there is relaxation, it is a cycle. What is the purpose? " Nisargadatta Maharaj http://www.nisargadatta.in/WebCMS/CMSPage.aspx?PageID=23 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2008 Report Share Posted April 10, 2008 And so in Niz language, "I am" is the 'me' concept; ego. Phil In a message dated 4/9/2008 11:09:00 AM Pacific Daylight Time, chabakat writes: Excerpt from "I am unborn"" There is a customer for everything, but what is the cause of your beingness being the customer? The primary concept is the `I am', out of it are created all other concepts. You have come from the primary concept, so long as you have the need to be, you have this prolific wonderful world and all the Gods are available. The distinction between the world and Brahman has come because you want to sustain your beingness, the `I am', the manifest world is made important by you because you want to be. But when the need for beingness is not felt, like in sleep or in short, when consciousness is not conscious, there is no need. When consciousness is there, it will always need consciousness; when consciousness is not there, where is the need for anything at all? Of what use is the availability of the world? The world and its lord are only a nuisance in my state. The need to be is bondage, no needs no bondage. I will not be stupid and ask how I am in the absence of consciousness. There can be no talk about the state prior to consciousness. In the realm of consciousness are the experiences and all the talk. The one, who has recognized, understood and transcended oneself can talk, otherwise, one is caught in the pincer movement of Maya; you are caught by your own tentacles (identification with body-pincer). Because of your own deception, you ask questions, you are caught and enmeshed in more and more concepts.Information about myself in the absence of consciousness, nobody can tell me. I also don't need it, since that is so; you are non-plussed by me. I have full knowledge prior to beingness, which is eternal. In the waking state there is struggle and fatigue, in deep sleep there is relaxation, it is a cycle. What is the purpose?"Nisargadatta Maharajhttp://www.nisargadatta.in/WebCMS/CMSPage.aspx?PageID=23 Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2008 Report Share Posted April 10, 2008 Yes,Phil. But, you know, the term " ego " is a little tarnished by a wild misuse. In Niz language, " I am " is not the individual " ego " , not the dualistic " me " (there's " me " here and the " world " all around!) As I've said it previously, it's all about that first " I-thought " which contains both me and the universe. In my experience, I trained myself for many months all along to grasp that " I am " during the first few seconds before waking up in the morning, or between sleep and waking. You may certainly have experienced it already. You know... when you are not totally awake, and still in that transit state where you're not quite sure who you are, nor where you are. I used to be still and quiet in those rare " moments " just before identifying with the body or the name or the personal story, just prior to recognizing the surroundings: the ceiling, the walls, the spouse or whatever. That is the non-dualistic " I am " Niz is talking about. When it arises, there isn't " me " first and " the universe " next. No, they arise simultaneously! Now, I understand what some " awakened " people round there are talking about when they say: " There's nobody, we are all one, the world is in me and not the other way round, etc, etc... " In fact, the " I am " is like a seed which was latent, dormant during the sleep state, and which is sprouting excessively fast in the waking state (or the dream state also) creating simultaneously " the observer " and " the observed " . That's why we are quickly caught up by Maya's tentacles, until next sleep or... radical awakening. How funny! Yet, more funny: The Absolute, which is prior to " I am " ! Sincerely. Hakim Nisargadatta , souldreamone wrote: > > > And so in Niz language, " I am " is the 'me' concept; ego. > Phil > > > > > > In a message dated 4/9/2008 11:09:00 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > chabakat writes: > > Excerpt from " I am unborn " > > > " There is a customer for everything, but what is the cause of your > beingness being the customer? The primary concept is the `I am', out > of it are created all other concepts. You have come from the primary > concept, so long as you have the need to be, you have this prolific > wonderful world and all the Gods are available. The distinction > between the world and Brahman has come because you want to sustain > your beingness, the `I am', the manifest world is made important by > you because you want to be. But when the need for beingness is not > felt, like in sleep or in short, when consciousness is not > conscious, there is no need. When consciousness is there, it will > always need consciousness; when consciousness is not there, where is > the need for anything at all? Of what use is the availability of the > world? The world and its lord are only a nuisance in my state. The > need to be is bondage, no needs no bondage. I will not be stupid and > ask how I am in the absence of consciousness. There can be no talk > about the state prior to consciousness. In the realm of > consciousness are the experiences and all the talk. The one, who has > recognized, understood and transcended oneself can talk, otherwise, > one is caught in the pincer movement of Maya; you are caught by your > own tentacles (identification with body-pincer). Because of your own > deception, you ask questions, you are caught and enmeshed in more > and more concepts. > > Information about myself in the absence of consciousness, nobody can > tell me. I also don't need it, since that is so; you are non- plussed > by me. I have full knowledge prior to beingness, which is eternal. > In the waking state there is struggle and fatigue, in deep sleep > there is relaxation, it is a cycle. What is the purpose? " > > Nisargadatta Maharaj > > http://www.nisargadatta.in/WebCMS/CMSPage.aspx?PageID=23 > > **************Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides. > (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states? ncid=aoltrv00030000000016) > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2008 Report Share Posted April 10, 2008 Nisargadatta , " Hakim " <chabakat wrote: > > Yes,Phil. But, you know, the term " ego " is a little tarnished by a > wild misuse. In Niz language, " I am " is not the individual " ego " , > not the dualistic " me " (there's " me " here and the " world " all > around!) > As I've said it previously, it's all about that first " I-thought " > which contains both me and the universe. > > In my experience, I trained myself for many months all along to > grasp that " I am " during the first few seconds before waking up in > the morning, or between sleep and waking. who is this indivi(dual) which is 'waking up'.. what lies 'between' 'sleep' and 'waking'. is there either 'sleep' or 'wakefullness'? for whom would those terms apply..and what do they mean? what's 'special about sleep...or waking.. or what's in a subjective: 'moment'..or subjective some-what..some-who..some-which...some-where.. that supposedly 'experiences' ANY state of self or other? why is it special? can you polish it to become what it is not.. though you know not what it is from the beginning? futility in motion. > You may certainly have > experienced it already. You know... when you are not totally awake, > and still in that transit state where you're not quite sure who you > are, nor where you are. if there is 'someone' which is 'experiencing' 'something'.. it's just more self deceptive thaumaturgy. shadows believing that they can project shadows... well hell..why not right...there right in the beam of Light.. no no...even better.. now that they are in that middle ground.. between all perceptible 'other' and the LIGHT.. they can shade the shade. they are become ONE with the LIGHT.. in between other stuff. and now they can finally talk about it as the mere being they are not. uhhhh..huhhhhh. sure. > I used to be still and quiet in those rare " moments " just before > identifying with the body or the name or the personal story, just > prior to recognizing the surroundings: the ceiling, the walls, the > spouse or whatever. stillness..quietness..rare.. qualifying the un-qualifiable.. never works out. prior to all considerations and qualities is THAT. nobody has ever 'experienced' THAT. no one is other than THAT. it's not an experience. and it's not rare whatsoever. nothing is ever apart or separate from THAT. that stillness and quietness.. are no better than.. nor are they different from.. rock and roll or riveters revetting. all and every.. each and all.. first and last... up and down.. dead or alive THAT. > That is the non-dualistic " I am " Niz is talking about. When it > arises, there isn't " me " first and " the universe " next. No, they > arise simultaneously! Now, I understand what some " awakened " people > round there are talking about when they say: " There's nobody, we are > all one, the world is in me and not the other way round, etc, etc... " pretty words that do not apply to REALITY. they are spoken by and received by unenlightened phantoms. this tepid stuff goes for 'really cool and nondual dude!' it's silly. > In fact, the " I am " is like a seed which was latent, dormant during > the sleep state, and which is sprouting excessively fast in the > waking state (or the dream state also) creating simultaneously " the > observer " and " the observed " . That's why we are quickly caught up by > Maya's tentacles, until next sleep or... radical awakening. > > How funny! > > Yet, more funny: The Absolute, which is prior to " I am " ! > > Sincerely. > Hakim this last bit is really good. sharing the laughter, :-) ..b b.b. ********************************************************************** > Nisargadatta , souldreamone@ wrote: > > > > > > And so in Niz language, " I am " is the 'me' concept; ego. > > Phil > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 4/9/2008 11:09:00 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > > chabakat@ writes: > > > > Excerpt from " I am unborn " > > > > > > " There is a customer for everything, but what is the cause of > your > > beingness being the customer? The primary concept is the `I am', > out > > of it are created all other concepts. You have come from the > primary > > concept, so long as you have the need to be, you have this > prolific > > wonderful world and all the Gods are available. The distinction > > between the world and Brahman has come because you want to > sustain > > your beingness, the `I am', the manifest world is made important > by > > you because you want to be. But when the need for beingness is > not > > felt, like in sleep or in short, when consciousness is not > > conscious, there is no need. When consciousness is there, it will > > always need consciousness; when consciousness is not there, where > is > > the need for anything at all? Of what use is the availability of > the > > world? The world and its lord are only a nuisance in my state. > The > > need to be is bondage, no needs no bondage. I will not be stupid > and > > ask how I am in the absence of consciousness. There can be no > talk > > about the state prior to consciousness. In the realm of > > consciousness are the experiences and all the talk. The one, who > has > > recognized, understood and transcended oneself can talk, > otherwise, > > one is caught in the pincer movement of Maya; you are caught by > your > > own tentacles (identification with body-pincer). Because of your > own > > deception, you ask questions, you are caught and enmeshed in more > > and more concepts. > > > > Information about myself in the absence of consciousness, nobody > can > > tell me. I also don't need it, since that is so; you are non- > plussed > > by me. I have full knowledge prior to beingness, which is > eternal. > > In the waking state there is struggle and fatigue, in deep sleep > > there is relaxation, it is a cycle. What is the purpose? " > > > > Nisargadatta Maharaj > > > > http://www.nisargadatta.in/WebCMS/CMSPage.aspx?PageID=23 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **************Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel > Guides. > > (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states? > ncid=aoltrv00030000000016) > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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