Love all or none of it . . . . to Sujal

April 11, 2008

Nisargadatta , sujal <sujal_u wrote:

>

> Dear Manjit,

>

> I have came accross a conversation of Sri Ramana Maharshi and a

devotee in a book dedicated to his life.

> ---

> Q: Krishnamoorty says that there is no need of a Guru?

> A: Who says so?, only after self realisation, one can say that now

i do not need a Guru.

> ----

> I believe that krishnamoorty was a powerful orator. But a powerful

orator need not necessarily be a realised saint. His writings are

influencial, but i see his methods are not according to traditional

indian methids which are sucessfully time tested by number of saints

over a period of time. So i do not accept his philosophy.

Hi Sujal,

About Krishnamurti (and not Krishnamoorti):

He said " Truth is a pathless land " . There is no path to it. No

method, no effort, no meditation will lead to it.

Therfore K did not teach any methods ! And he had nothing to do with

any tradition, he denied all of them, be it in India or in USA. He

made jokes about saints and gurus and constantly was stressing " You

must be your own light " .

Maharaj was very fond of him. Once when he had to be absent and could

not give his regular talks he gave order to his translator to wait

for the people and send them to Krishnamurti who gave some talks in

the city. And he remarked that Krishnamurti was teaching just the

same as he does.

So, Sujal, as I can see you are in no way qualified to say anything

about Krishanmurti as long as you did not study him.

Werner

>

> Self enquiry is the most direct path. Ramana Maharshi, Sri

Nisargadattaji practiced the same.

> But if you are new to non-dual concept, i will suggest you to read

the biography i.e. life of the saint before reading his instructions.

>

> Saints of different nature (karma, bhakti, jyana) follow and choose

their path to salvation according to their nature and then establish

themselves in their SELF, i.e. realise their true nature. Later on,

due to divine wish, they preach the same.

> So if you know their lifes, you can understand their concepts

easily.

>

> As far as advaita vedanta (non-dual) is concerned, first read the

basic books on non-duality, preferably in your mother tongue like

Tatva Bodh, Atma Bodh, Vivek Choodamani written by a saint following

advaita tradition.

>

> I feel that Lige of Sri Ramakrishna (Jivan Charitra) & Gospel of

Sri Ramakrishna Paramhansa by M (Mahendranath Gupta) may help you a

lot. It is written in plain language, and concepts of vedanta are

explained in the language of common man.

> However he has preached dual approach. He also supports non-dual

approach. He has practised dual, non-dual, tantric, christian, islam.

Meditated intensely and realised that same truth can be approach by

different paths. All paths lead to the same truth. He preached the

same. His words have greatly infuenced me.

>

> Bhagawat Gita is always there.

>

> AUM

>

> Sujal

>

> manjit malhi <malhimanjit

> nisargadatta

> Friday, 11 April, 2008 11:51:19 AM

> RE: Love all or none of it . . . .

>

> First i read I am that than i come across books of UG

Krishnamurthy which describes Mind is myth and there is no self and

soul at all. Meditation is bullshit and harmful to body. but he also

described his natural states and diiferent experience along with

marks of chakra on various parts of body. i can not understand and in

great dilemma .Should i leave self enquiry and meditation if i belive

in UG. But in deep my heart it seems to be there is something .How

should i clarify my doubts and make progress.

>

> If i want to know self or my true nature -Can anyone help me how

to go about this in first step and how should i know my progress.HELP

>

> Warm regards

>

> Manjit

>

> Nisargadatta

> sujal_u

> Fri, 11 Apr 2008 11:22:39 +0530

> Re: Love all or none of it . . . .

>

> Dear Phil,

>

> " The eye cannot see the eye (or the 'I' the 'I').(This is infact

pointed out by Sri Ramana Maharshi in " 40 verses on truth "

>

> What you say is definately true.

>

> When we say that " to god God, we should go inside the Heart " . This

does not mean that we have to travel from one place to other. It is a

way of expressing, as our mind naturally is tuned with the body.

>

> SELF cannot be explained, as you correctly said " The eye cannot see

the eye (or the 'I' the 'I'). "

> But what you do to put in the words to guide/express somebody. When

Sri Nisargadattaji says that " SELF is beyond words " , what does he

mean? Does a saint try to cage the SELF, which is beyond words.. If

such is the case then nobody can talk to each other or express

anything to others.

> WHO explains WHOM .

>

> What i talked was a process (as i meditate and give importance to

Meditation), which, i realise, is frutile according to you.

> What you said is the result of the process. " You are the eye " . Who

sees whom. But again, I cannot dare to say these words before i

experience this state or in your language " be the SELF " or " be what

you are " . As words of a Realised saint are a result of their direct

experience. After i know my true nature and always abide in it. i

will, without any fear or hasitation, say " The eye cannot see the eye

(or the 'I' the 'I'). " , as there is no doubt.

>

> Else i see the 'snake' (which is superimposed on 'rope' - by false

illusion), but keep on saying that i see the 'rope'.

>

> My words indiicate my state of mind and where i stand.

>

> I think we are not been able to tune ourselves with each other. Out

line thinking is a bit different, but i think our Goal is the same.

>

> Anyway. bye

>

> AUM

>

> Sujal

>

> " souldreamone@ AOL.com " <souldreamone@ AOL.com>

> Nisargadatta

> Friday, 11 April, 2008 1:39:50 AM

> Re: Love all or none of it . . . .

>

> In a message dated 4/10/2008 3:48:46 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

sujal_u writes:

> Hi Phil,

>

> Yes i agree that we think and mind is active in

> dreams.

>

> I also give importance to meditation and believe that

> without meditation i cannot have that awareness

> constantly thoughout day and night.

>

> Meditation is trying to be aware of the SELF according

> to me.

>

> The statement about dreams that i made originally

> belongs to a senior disciple of Swami Chinmaya

> (founder of Chinmaya mission nad Swami Tadrupanand of

> Jnana and manan ashram.

>

> Also the importance i give to meditation of chanting

> gods name or being aware of the SELF can be found in

> Traditional Scriptures if non-duality like

>

> Vivek Choodamani of Sri Adi Sankaracharya says that

> " there is no way other than meditation (sadhana) to

> realise yor true nature.

>

> The term meditation is sometimes loosely defined.

> 1. It may be chanting the name of any form of God

> (Path of Devotion - Pratik Upasana)

> 2. Chanting AUM (formless approach)- Pratik Upasana

> 3. The path of Knowledge - Neti Neti, Sri Ramana

> Maharshi's approach, Sri Nisargadattaji' s approach,

> and Atmashatak or Nirvana Shatak of Sri Adi

> Sankaracharya (Ahangra upasna)

>

> * Pratik - Symbol - AUM represents the formless

> atribute of God just as national flag represents the

> entire nation.

>

> Similarly- chanting God's name ( say Lord RAMA) also

> represents GOD but with atributes.

>

> I try to follow Indian Scriptures (Shaastra) as

> Shaastra is nothing but collection of the experience

> of innumerable realised saints with time immorial.

>

> So i consider them as authentic.

>

> AUM

>

> Sujal

>

> As soon as someone says " there is no other way than meditation "

somebody 'Awakens' without ever having meditated. It's not wisdom to

place constraints on infinite potential. There are infinite ways and

there are no methods. The methods and practices are distractions,

though these distractions may be a necessary part of ones path.

>

> What does it mean to be aware of the SELF? What thing is it that is

aware of another thing?

>

> Phil

>

> Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides.

Bollywood, fun, friendship, sports and more. You name it, we have

it..

Planning marriage in 2008! Join Shaadi.com matrimony FREE! Try it

now!

> <!-- #ygrp-mkp{ border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-

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>

> Meet people who discuss and share your passions. Go to

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>

April 11, 2008

Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr

wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , sujal <sujal_u@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Manjit,

> >

> > I have came accross a conversation of Sri Ramana Maharshi and a

> devotee in a book dedicated to his life.

> > ---

> > Q: Krishnamoorty says that there is no need of a Guru?

> > A: Who says so?, only after self realisation, one can say that

now

> i do not need a Guru.

> > ----

> > I believe that krishnamoorty was a powerful orator. But a

powerful

> orator need not necessarily be a realised saint. His writings are

> influencial, but i see his methods are not according to traditional

> indian methids which are sucessfully time tested by number of

saints

> over a period of time. So i do not accept his philosophy.

>

> Hi Sujal,

>

> About Krishnamurti (and not Krishnamoorti):

>

> He said " Truth is a pathless land " . There is no path to it. No

> method, no effort, no meditation will lead to it.

>

> Therfore K did not teach any methods ! And he had nothing to do

with

> any tradition, he denied all of them, be it in India or in USA. He

> made jokes about saints and gurus and constantly was stressing " You

> must be your own light " .

>

> Maharaj was very fond of him. Once when he had to be absent and

could

> not give his regular talks he gave order to his translator to wait

> for the people and send them to Krishnamurti who gave some talks in

> the city. And he remarked that Krishnamurti was teaching just the

> same as he does.

>

> So, Sujal, as I can see you are in no way qualified to say anything

> about Krishanmurti as long as you did not study him.

>

> Werner

Hi Guru Werner,

..... " He said " Truth is a pathless land " . There is no path to it. No

> method, no effort, no meditation will lead to it. "

....and then your " path to it " is Krishnamurti seem so....

it took no effort to " study " Krishnamurti?

Marc

>

> >

> > Self enquiry is the most direct path. Ramana Maharshi, Sri

> Nisargadattaji practiced the same.

> > But if you are new to non-dual concept, i will suggest you to

read

> the biography i.e. life of the saint before reading his

instructions.

> >

> > Saints of different nature (karma, bhakti, jyana) follow and

choose

> their path to salvation according to their nature and then

establish

> themselves in their SELF, i.e. realise their true nature. Later on,

> due to divine wish, they preach the same.

> > So if you know their lifes, you can understand their concepts

> easily.

> >

> > As far as advaita vedanta (non-dual) is concerned, first read the

> basic books on non-duality, preferably in your mother tongue like

> Tatva Bodh, Atma Bodh, Vivek Choodamani written by a saint

following

> advaita tradition.

> >

> > I feel that Lige of Sri Ramakrishna (Jivan Charitra) & Gospel of

> Sri Ramakrishna Paramhansa by M (Mahendranath Gupta) may help you

a

> lot. It is written in plain language, and concepts of vedanta are

> explained in the language of common man.

> > However he has preached dual approach. He also supports non-dual

> approach. He has practised dual, non-dual, tantric, christian,

islam.

> Meditated intensely and realised that same truth can be approach by

> different paths. All paths lead to the same truth. He preached the

> same. His words have greatly infuenced me.

> >

> > Bhagawat Gita is always there.

> >

> > AUM

> >

> > Sujal

> >

> > manjit malhi <malhimanjit@>

> > nisargadatta

> > Friday, 11 April, 2008 11:51:19 AM

> > RE: Love all or none of it . . . .

> >

> > First i read I am that than i come across books of UG

> Krishnamurthy which describes Mind is myth and there is no self and

> soul at all. Meditation is bullshit and harmful to body. but he

also

> described his natural states and diiferent experience along with

> marks of chakra on various parts of body. i can not understand and

in

> great dilemma .Should i leave self enquiry and meditation if i

belive

> in UG. But in deep my heart it seems to be there is something .How

> should i clarify my doubts and make progress.

> >

> > If i want to know self or my true nature -Can anyone help me how

> to go about this in first step and how should i know my

progress.HELP

> >

> > Warm regards

> >

> > Manjit

> >

> > Nisargadatta

> > sujal_u

> > Fri, 11 Apr 2008 11:22:39 +0530

> > Re: Love all or none of it . . . .

> >

> > Dear Phil,

> >

> > " The eye cannot see the eye (or the 'I' the 'I').(This is infact

> pointed out by Sri Ramana Maharshi in " 40 verses on truth "

> >

> > What you say is definately true.

> >

> > When we say that " to god God, we should go inside the Heart " .

This

> does not mean that we have to travel from one place to other. It is

a

> way of expressing, as our mind naturally is tuned with the body.

> >

> > SELF cannot be explained, as you correctly said " The eye cannot

see

> the eye (or the 'I' the 'I'). "

> > But what you do to put in the words to guide/express somebody.

When

> Sri Nisargadattaji says that " SELF is beyond words " , what does he

> mean? Does a saint try to cage the SELF, which is beyond words.. If

> such is the case then nobody can talk to each other or

express

> anything to others.

> > WHO explains WHOM .

> >

> > What i talked was a process (as i meditate and give importance to

> Meditation), which, i realise, is frutile according to you.

> > What you said is the result of the process. " You are the eye " .

Who

> sees whom. But again, I cannot dare to say these words before i

> experience this state or in your language " be the SELF " or " be what

> you are " . As words of a Realised saint are a result of their direct

> experience. After i know my true nature and always abide in it. i

> will, without any fear or hasitation, say " The eye cannot see the

eye

> (or the 'I' the 'I'). " , as there is no doubt.

> >

> > Else i see the 'snake' (which is superimposed on 'rope' - by

false

> illusion), but keep on saying that i see the 'rope'.

> >

> > My words indiicate my state of mind and where i stand.

> >

> > I think we are not been able to tune ourselves with each other.

Out

> line thinking is a bit different, but i think our Goal is the same.

> >

> > Anyway. bye

> >

> > AUM

> >

> > Sujal

> >

> > " souldreamone@ AOL.com " <souldreamone@ AOL.com>

> > Nisargadatta

> > Friday, 11 April, 2008 1:39:50 AM

> > Re: Love all or none of it . . . .

> >

> > In a message dated 4/10/2008 3:48:46 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

> sujal_u writes:

> > Hi Phil,

> >

> > Yes i agree that we think and mind is active in

> > dreams.

> >

> > I also give importance to meditation and believe that

> > without meditation i cannot have that awareness

> > constantly thoughout day and night.

> >

> > Meditation is trying to be aware of the SELF according

> > to me.

> >

> > The statement about dreams that i made originally

> > belongs to a senior disciple of Swami Chinmaya

> > (founder of Chinmaya mission nad Swami Tadrupanand of

> > Jnana and manan ashram.

> >

> > Also the importance i give to meditation of chanting

> > gods name or being aware of the SELF can be found in

> > Traditional Scriptures if non-duality like

> >

> > Vivek Choodamani of Sri Adi Sankaracharya says that

> > " there is no way other than meditation (sadhana) to

> > realise yor true nature.

> >

> > The term meditation is sometimes loosely defined.

> > 1. It may be chanting the name of any form of God

> > (Path of Devotion - Pratik Upasana)

> > 2. Chanting AUM (formless approach)- Pratik Upasana

> > 3. The path of Knowledge - Neti Neti, Sri Ramana

> > Maharshi's approach, Sri Nisargadattaji' s approach,

> > and Atmashatak or Nirvana Shatak of Sri Adi

> > Sankaracharya (Ahangra upasna)

> >

> > * Pratik - Symbol - AUM represents the formless

> > atribute of God just as national flag represents the

> > entire nation.

> >

> > Similarly- chanting God's name ( say Lord RAMA) also

> > represents GOD but with atributes.

> >

> > I try to follow Indian Scriptures (Shaastra) as

> > Shaastra is nothing but collection of the experience

> > of innumerable realised saints with time immorial.

> >

> > So i consider them as authentic.

> >

> > AUM

> >

> > Sujal

> >

> > As soon as someone says " there is no other way than meditation "

> somebody 'Awakens' without ever having meditated. It's not wisdom

to

> place constraints on infinite potential. There are infinite ways

and

> there are no methods. The methods and practices are distractions,

> though these distractions may be a necessary part of ones path.

> >

> > What does it mean to be aware of the SELF? What thing is it that

is

> aware of another thing?

> >

> > Phil

> >

> > Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides.

> >

> > Bollywood, fun, friendship, sports and more. You name it, we

have

> it..

> >

> > Planning marriage in 2008! Join Shaadi.com matrimony FREE! Try it

> now!

> > <!-- #ygrp-mkp{ border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-

> family:Arial;margin:14px 0px;padding:0px 14px;} #ygrp-mkp hr{

> border:1px solid #d8d8d8;} #ygrp-mkp #hd{ color:#628c2a;font-

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April 11, 2008

In a message dated 4/11/2008 10:02:44 AM Eastern Daylight Time, wwoehr writes:

Nisargadatta , sujal <sujal_u wrote:>> Dear Manjit,> > I have came accross a conversation of Sri Ramana Maharshi and a devotee in a book dedicated to his life.> ---> Q: Krishnamoorty says that there is no need of a Guru?> A: Who says so?, only after self realisation, one can say that now i do not need a Guru.> ----> I believe that krishnamoorty was a powerful orator. But a powerful orator need not necessarily be a realised saint. His writings are influencial, but i see his methods are not according to traditional indian methids which are sucessfully time tested by number of saints over a period of time. So i do not accept his philosophy.Hi Sujal,About Krishnamurti (and not Krishnamoorti):He said "Truth is a pathless land". There is no path to it. No method, no effort, no meditation will lead to it.Therfore K did not teach any methods ! And he had nothing to do with any tradition, he denied all of them, be it in India or in USA. He made jokes about saints and gurus and constantly was stressing "You must be your own light".Maharaj was very fond of him. Once when he had to be absent and could not give his regular talks he gave order to his translator to wait for the people and send them to Krishnamurti who gave some talks in the city. And he remarked that Krishnamurti was teaching just the same as he does.So, Sujal, as I can see you are in no way qualified to say anything about Krishanmurti as long as you did not study him.Werner

That seems to be what impressed me the most about Krishnamurty, he didn't bullshit anybody. He'd say, I can't help you, I have nothing for you, leave me alone. People clung to him to hear him talk because they knew he wasn't selling anything.

Phil

It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money Finance.

April 12, 2008

DearÂ Werner, I guess i messed up. You are right. I apologise and take back my words.Thank and regardsSujalWerner Woehr <wwoehrNisargadatta Sent: Friday, 11 April, 2008 7:32:15 PM Re: Love all or none of it . . . . to SujalNisargadatta, sujal <sujal_u > wrote: > > Dear Manjit, > > I have came accross a conversation of Sri Ramana Maharshi and a devotee in a book dedicated to his life. > --- > Q: Krishnamoorty says that there is no need of a Guru? > A: Who says so?, only after self realisation, one can say that now i do not need a Guru. > ---- > I believe that krishnamoorty was a powerful orator. But a powerful orator need not necessarily be a realised saint. His writings are influencial, but i see his methods are not according to traditional indian methids which are

sucessfully time tested by number of saints over a period of time. So i do not accept his philosophy. Hi Sujal, About Krishnamurti (and not Krishnamoorti) : He said "Truth is a pathless land". There is no path to it. No method, no effort, no meditation will lead to it. Therfore K did not teach any methods ! And he had nothing to do with any tradition, he denied all of them, be it in India or in USA. He made jokes about saints and gurus and constantly was stressing "You must be your own light". Maharaj was very fond of him. Once when he had to be absent and could not give his regular talks he gave order to his translator to wait for the people and send them to Krishnamurti who gave some talks in the city. And he remarked that Krishnamurti was teaching just the same as he does. So, Sujal, as I can see you are in no way qualified to say anything about

Krishanmurti as long as you did not study him. Werner > > Self enquiry is the most direct path. Ramana Maharshi, Sri Nisargadattaji practiced the same. > But if you are new to non-dual concept, i will suggest you to read the biography i.e. life of the saint before reading his instructions. > > Saints of different nature (karma, bhakti, jyana) follow and choose their path to salvation according to their nature and then establish themselves in their SELF, i.e. realise their true nature. Later on, due to divine wish, they preach the same. > So if you know their lifes, you can understand their concepts easily. > > As far as advaita vedanta (non-dual) is concerned, first read the basic books on non-duality, preferably in your mother tongue like Tatva Bodh, Atma Bodh, Vivek Choodamani written by a saint following advaita tradition. > > I feel that Lige of Sri Ramakrishna (Jivan Charitra) & Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna Paramhansa by M (Mahendranath Gupta) may help you a lot. It is written in plain language, and concepts of vedanta are explained in the language of common man. > However he has preached dual approach. He also supports non-dual approach. He has practised dual, non-dual, tantric, christian, islam. Meditated intensely and realised that same truth can be approach by different paths. All paths lead to the same truth. He preached the same. His words have greatly infuenced me. > > Bhagawat Gita is always there. > > AUM > > Sujal > > > > manjit malhi <malhimanjit@ ...> > nisargadatta > Friday, 11 April, 2008 11:51:19 AM > RE: Love all or none of it . . . . > > First i read I am that than i come across books of UG Krishnamurthy which describes Mind is myth and there is no self and soul at all. Meditation is bullshit and harmful to body. but he also described his natural states and diiferent experience along with marks of chakra on various parts of body. i can not understand and in great dilemma .Should i leave self enquiry and meditation if i belive in UG. But in deep my heart it seems to be there is something .How should i clarify my doubts and make progress. > > If i want to know self or my true nature -Can anyone help me how to go about this in first step and how should i know my progress.HELP > > Warm regards

> > Manjit > > > > > > Nisargadatta > sujal_u > Fri, 11 Apr 2008 11:22:39 +0530 > Re: Love all or none of it . . . . > > > Dear Phil, > > "The eye cannot see the eye (or the 'I' the 'I').(This is infact pointed out by Sri Ramana Maharshi in "40 verses on truth" > > What you say is definately true. > > When we say that "to god God, we should go inside the Heart". This does not mean that we have to travel from one place to other. It is a way of expressing, as our mind naturally is tuned with the body. > > SELF cannot be explained, as you correctly said "The eye cannot see the eye (or the 'I' the 'I')." > But what you do to put in the words to guide/express somebody. When Sri Nisargadattaji

says that "SELF is beyond words", what does he mean? Does a saint try to cage the SELF, which is beyond words.. If such is the case then nobody can talk to each other or express anything to others. > WHO explains WHOM . > > What i talked was a process (as i meditate and give importance to Meditation), which, i realise, is frutile according to you. > What you said is the result of the process. "You are the eye". Who sees whom. But again, I cannot dare to say these words before i experience this state or in your language "be the SELF" or "be what you are". As words of a Realised saint are a result of their direct experience. After i know my true nature and always abide in it. i will, without any fear or hasitation, say "The eye cannot see the eye (or the 'I' the 'I').", as there is no doubt. > > Else i see the 'snake' (which is superimposed on 'rope' -

by false illusion), but keep on saying that i see the 'rope'. > > My words indiicate my state of mind and where i stand. > > I think we are not been able to tune ourselves with each other. Out line thinking is a bit different, but i think our Goal is the same.. > > Anyway. bye > > AUM > > Sujal > > > "souldreamone@ AOL.com" <souldreamone@ AOL.com> > Nisargadatta > Friday, 11 April, 2008 1:39:50 AM > Re: Love all or none of it . . . . > > In a message dated 4/10/2008 3:48:46 AM Pacific Daylight Time, sujal_u writes: > Hi Phil, > > Yes i agree that we think and mind is active in > dreams. > > I also give importance to meditation and believe that > without

meditation i cannot have that awareness > constantly thoughout day and night. > > Meditation is trying to be aware of the SELF according > to me. > > The statement about dreams that i made originally > belongs to a senior disciple of Swami Chinmaya > (founder of Chinmaya mission nad Swami Tadrupanand of > Jnana and manan ashram. > > Also the importance i give to meditation of chanting > gods name or being aware of the SELF can be found in > Traditional Scriptures if non-duality like > > Vivek Choodamani of Sri Adi Sankaracharya says that > "there is no way other than meditation (sadhana) to > realise yor true nature. > > The term meditation is sometimes loosely defined. > 1. It may be chanting the name of any form of God > (Path of Devotion - Pratik Upasana) > 2. Chanting AUM (formless approach)-

Pratik Upasana > 3. The path of Knowledge - Neti Neti, Sri Ramana > Maharshi's approach, Sri Nisargadattaji' s approach, > and Atmashatak or Nirvana Shatak of Sri Adi > Sankaracharya (Ahangra upasna) > > * Pratik - Symbol - AUM represents the formless > atribute of God just as national flag represents the > entire nation. > > Similarly- chanting God's name ( say Lord RAMA) also > represents GOD but with atributes. > > I try to follow Indian Scriptures (Shaastra) as > Shaastra is nothing but collection of the experience > of innumerable realised saints with time immorial. > > So i consider them as authentic. > > AUM > > Sujal > > > > As soon as someone says "there is no other way than meditation" somebody 'Awakens' without ever having meditated. It's not wisdom to

place constraints on infinite potential. There are infinite ways and there are no methods. The methods and practices are distractions, though these distractions may be a necessary part of ones path. > > What does it mean to be aware of the SELF? What thing is it that is aware of another thing? > > Phil > > > > > Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides. > > > > > > > Bollywood, fun, friendship, sports and more. You name it, we have it.. > > > > > > > Planning marriage in 2008! Join Shaadi.com matrimony FREE! Try it now! > <!-- #ygrp-mkp{ border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font- family:Arial; margin:14px 0px;padding: 0px 14px;} #ygrp-mkp hr{ border:1px solid #d8d8d8;} #ygrp-mkp #hd{ color:#628c2a; font-

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Unlimited freedom, unlimited storage. Get it now

April 12, 2008

oksujal <sujal_u wrote: Dear Werner,I guess i messed up. You are right. I apologise and take back my words.Thank and regardsSujal Werner Woehr <wwoehr (AT) pobox (DOT) co.uk>To:

Nisargadatta Sent: Friday, 11 April, 2008 7:32:15 PM Re: Love all or none of it . . . . to Sujal Nisargadatta, sujal <sujal_u > wrote:>> Dear Manjit,> > I have came accross a conversation of Sri Ramana Maharshi and a devotee in a book dedicated to his life.> ---> Q: Krishnamoorty says that there is no need of a Guru?> A: Who says so?, only after self realisation, one can say that now i do not need a Guru.> ----> I believe that krishnamoorty was a powerful orator. But a powerful orator need not necessarily be a realised saint. His writings are influencial, but i see his methods are not according to traditional

indian methids which are sucessfully time tested by number of saints over a period of time. So i do not accept his philosophy.Hi Sujal,About Krishnamurti (and not Krishnamoorti) :He said "Truth is a pathless land". There is no path to it. No method, no effort, no meditation will lead to it.Therfore K did not teach any methods ! And he had nothing to do with any tradition, he denied all of them, be it in India or in USA. He made jokes about saints and gurus and constantly was stressing "You must be your own light".Maharaj was very fond of him. Once when he had to be absent and could not give his regular talks he gave order to his translator to wait for the people and send them to Krishnamurti who gave some talks in the city. And he remarked that Krishnamurti was teaching just the same as he does.So, Sujal, as I can see you are in no way qualified to say anything about Krishanmurti as

long as you did not study him.Werner> > Self enquiry is the most direct path. Ramana Maharshi, Sri Nisargadattaji practiced the same.> But if you are new to non-dual concept, i will suggest you to read the biography i.e. life of the saint before reading his instructions. > > Saints of different nature (karma, bhakti, jyana) follow and choose their path to salvation according to their nature and then establish themselves in their SELF, i.e. realise their true nature. Later on, due to divine wish, they preach the same. > So if you know their lifes, you can understand their concepts easily.> > As far as advaita vedanta (non-dual) is concerned, first read the basic books on non-duality, preferably in your mother tongue like Tatva Bodh, Atma Bodh, Vivek Choodamani written by a saint following advaita tradition.> > I feel that Lige of Sri Ramakrishna (Jivan

Charitra) & Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna Paramhansa by M (Mahendranath Gupta) may help you a lot. It is written in plain language, and concepts of vedanta are explained in the language of common man. > However he has preached dual approach. He also supports non-dual approach. He has practised dual, non-dual, tantric, christian, islam. Meditated intensely and realised that same truth can be approach by different paths. All paths lead to the same truth. He preached the same. His words have greatly infuenced me.> > Bhagawat Gita is always there. > > AUM> > Sujal> > > > manjit malhi <malhimanjit@ ...>> nisargadatta> Friday, 11 April, 2008 11:51:19 AM> Subject:

RE: Love all or none of it . . . .> > First i read I am that than i come across books of UG Krishnamurthy which describes Mind is myth and there is no self and soul at all. Meditation is bullshit and harmful to body. but he also described his natural states and diiferent experience along with marks of chakra on various parts of body. i can not understand and in great dilemma .Should i leave self enquiry and meditation if i belive in UG. But in deep my heart it seems to be there is something .How should i clarify my doubts and make progress.> > If i want to know self or my true nature -Can anyone help me how to go about this in first step and how should i know my progress.HELP> > Warm regards> > Manjit> > > > > > Nisargadatta> sujal_u > Fri, 11 Apr 2008 11:22:39

+0530> Re: Love all or none of it . . . .> > > Dear Phil,> > "The eye cannot see the eye (or the 'I' the 'I').(This is infact pointed out by Sri Ramana Maharshi in "40 verses on truth"> > What you say is definately true.> > When we say that "to god God, we should go inside the Heart". This does not mean that we have to travel from one place to other. It is a way of expressing, as our mind naturally is tuned with the body. > > SELF cannot be explained, as you correctly said "The eye cannot see the eye (or the 'I' the 'I')."> But what you do to put in the words to guide/express somebody. When Sri Nisargadattaji says that "SELF is beyond words", what does he mean? Does a saint try to cage the SELF, which is beyond words.. If such is the case then nobody can talk to each other or express anything to others. > WHO explains

WHOM .> > What i talked was a process (as i meditate and give importance to Meditation), which, i realise, is frutile according to you.> What you said is the result of the process. "You are the eye". Who sees whom. But again, I cannot dare to say these words before i experience this state or in your language "be the SELF" or "be what you are". As words of a Realised saint are a result of their direct experience. After i know my true nature and always abide in it. i will, without any fear or hasitation, say "The eye cannot see the eye (or the 'I' the 'I').", as there is no doubt.> > Else i see the 'snake' (which is superimposed on 'rope' - by false illusion), but keep on saying that i see the 'rope'.> > My words indiicate my state of mind and where i stand.> > I think we are not been able to tune ourselves with each other. Out line thinking is a bit different, but i think our

Goal is the same..> > Anyway. bye> > AUM> > Sujal> > > "souldreamone@ AOL.com" <souldreamone@ AOL.com>> Nisargadatta> Friday, 11 April, 2008 1:39:50 AM> Re: Love all or none of it . . . .> > In a message dated 4/10/2008 3:48:46 AM Pacific Daylight Time, sujal_u writes:> Hi Phil,> > Yes i agree that we think and mind is active in> dreams.> > I also give importance to meditation and believe that> without meditation i cannot have that awareness> constantly thoughout day and night.> > Meditation is trying to be aware of the SELF according> to me.> > The statement about dreams that i made originally> belongs to a senior disciple of Swami Chinmaya> (founder of Chinmaya

mission nad Swami Tadrupanand of> Jnana and manan ashram.> > Also the importance i give to meditation of chanting> gods name or being aware of the SELF can be found in> Traditional Scriptures if non-duality like> > Vivek Choodamani of Sri Adi Sankaracharya says that> "there is no way other than meditation (sadhana) to> realise yor true nature.> > The term meditation is sometimes loosely defined.> 1. It may be chanting the name of any form of God> (Path of Devotion - Pratik Upasana)> 2. Chanting AUM (formless approach)- Pratik Upasana> 3. The path of Knowledge - Neti Neti, Sri Ramana> Maharshi's approach, Sri Nisargadattaji' s approach,> and Atmashatak or Nirvana Shatak of Sri Adi> Sankaracharya (Ahangra upasna)> > * Pratik - Symbol - AUM represents the formless> atribute of God just as national flag represents the> entire

nation.> > Similarly- chanting God's name ( say Lord RAMA) also> represents GOD but with atributes.> > I try to follow Indian Scriptures (Shaastra) as> Shaastra is nothing but collection of the experience> of innumerable realised saints with time immorial.> > So i consider them as authentic.> > AUM> > Sujal> > > > As soon as someone says "there is no other way than meditation" somebody 'Awakens' without ever having meditated. It's not wisdom to place constraints on infinite potential. There are infinite ways and there are no methods. The methods and practices are distractions, though these distractions may be a necessary part of ones path. > > What does it mean to be aware of the SELF? What thing is it that is aware of another thing?> > Phil> > > > > Planning your summer

road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides.> > > > > > > Bollywood, fun, friendship, sports and more. You name it, we have it..> > > > > > > Planning marriage in 2008! Join Shaadi.com matrimony FREE! Try it now! >   <!--#ygrp-mlmsg {font-size:13px;

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April 12, 2008

Nisargadatta , sujal <sujal_u wrote:

>

> Dear Werner,

>

> I guess i messed up. You are right. I apologise and take back my

words.

>

> Thank and regards

>

> Sujal

You are welcome, Sujal,

Have you ever read Castaneda ?

He wrote that that once when he apologized, Don Juan told him never

to apologize, because apologizing means trying to get around having

to bear the consequences of what one has said or done.

Werner

>

> Werner Woehr <wwoehr

> Nisargadatta

> Friday, 11 April, 2008 7:32:15 PM

> Re: Love all or none of it . . . . to Sujal

>

> Nisargadatta, sujal <sujal_u@ > wrote:

> >

> > Dear Manjit,

> >

> > I have came accross a conversation of Sri Ramana Maharshi and a

> devotee in a book dedicated to his life.

> > ---

> > Q: Krishnamoorty says that there is no need of a Guru?

> > A: Who says so?, only after self realisation, one can say that

now

> i do not need a Guru.

> > ----

> > I believe that krishnamoorty was a powerful orator. But a

powerful

> orator need not necessarily be a realised saint. His writings are

> influencial, but i see his methods are not according to

traditional

> indian methids which are sucessfully time tested by number of

saints

> over a period of time. So i do not accept his philosophy.

>

> Hi Sujal,

>

> About Krishnamurti (and not Krishnamoorti) :

>

> He said " Truth is a pathless land " . There is no path to it. No

> method, no effort, no meditation will lead to it.

>

> Therfore K did not teach any methods ! And he had nothing to do

with

> any tradition, he denied all of them, be it in India or in USA. He

> made jokes about saints and gurus and constantly was

stressing " You

> must be your own light " .

>

> Maharaj was very fond of him. Once when he had to be absent and

could

> not give his regular talks he gave order to his translator to wait

> for the people and send them to Krishnamurti who gave some talks

in

> the city. And he remarked that Krishnamurti was teaching just the

> same as he does.

>

> So, Sujal, as I can see you are in no way qualified to say

anything

> about Krishanmurti as long as you did not study him.

>

> Werner

>

> >

> > Self enquiry is the most direct path. Ramana Maharshi, Sri

> Nisargadattaji practiced the same.

> > But if you are new to non-dual concept, i will suggest you to

read

> the biography i.e. life of the saint before reading his

instructions.

> >

> > Saints of different nature (karma, bhakti, jyana) follow and

choose

> their path to salvation according to their nature and then

establish

> themselves in their SELF, i.e. realise their true nature. Later

on,

> due to divine wish, they preach the same.

> > So if you know their lifes, you can understand their concepts

> easily.

> >

> > As far as advaita vedanta (non-dual) is concerned, first read

the

> basic books on non-duality, preferably in your mother tongue like

> Tatva Bodh, Atma Bodh, Vivek Choodamani written by a saint

following

> advaita tradition.

> >

> > I feel that Lige of Sri Ramakrishna (Jivan Charitra) & Gospel of

> Sri Ramakrishna Paramhansa by M (Mahendranath Gupta) may help you

a

> lot. It is written in plain language, and concepts of vedanta are

> explained in the language of common man.

> > However he has preached dual approach. He also supports non-dual

> approach. He has practised dual, non-dual, tantric, christian,

islam.

> Meditated intensely and realised that same truth can be approach

by

> different paths. All paths lead to the same truth. He preached the

> same. His words have greatly infuenced me.

> >

> > Bhagawat Gita is always there.

> >

> > AUM

> >

> > Sujal

> >

> > manjit malhi <malhimanjit@ ...>

> > nisargadatta

> > Friday, 11 April, 2008 11:51:19 AM

> > RE: Love all or none of it . . . ..

> >

> > First i read I am that than i come across books of UG

> Krishnamurthy which describes Mind is myth and there is no self

and

> soul at all. Meditation is bullshit and harmful to body. but he

also

> described his natural states and diiferent experience along with

> marks of chakra on various parts of body. i can not understand and

in

> great dilemma ..Should i leave self enquiry and meditation if i

belive

> in UG. But in deep my heart it seems to be there is something .How

> should i clarify my doubts and make progress.

> >

> > If i want to know self or my true nature -Can anyone help me

how

> to go about this in first step and how should i know my

progress.HELP

> >

> > Warm regards

> >

> > Manjit

> >

> > Nisargadatta

> > sujal_u

> > Fri, 11 Apr 2008 11:22:39 +0530

> > Re: Love all or none of it . . . .

> >

> > Dear Phil,

> >

> > " The eye cannot see the eye (or the 'I' the 'I').(This is infact

> pointed out by Sri Ramana Maharshi in " 40 verses on truth "

> >

> > What you say is definately true.

> >

> > When we say that " to god God, we should go inside the Heart " .

This

> does not mean that we have to travel from one place to other. It

is a

> way of expressing, as our mind naturally is tuned with the body.

> >

> > SELF cannot be explained, as you correctly said " The eye cannot

see

> the eye (or the 'I' the 'I'). "

> > But what you do to put in the words to guide/express somebody.

When

> Sri Nisargadattaji says that " SELF is beyond words " , what does he

> mean? Does a saint try to cage the SELF, which is beyond words..

If

> such is the case then nobody can talk to each other or

express

> anything to others.

> > WHO explains WHOM .

> >

> > What i talked was a process (as i meditate and give importance

to

> Meditation), which, i realise, is frutile according to you.

> > What you said is the result of the process. " You are the eye " .

Who

> sees whom. But again, I cannot dare to say these words before i

> experience this state or in your language " be the SELF " or " be

what

> you are " . As words of a Realised saint are a result of their

direct

> experience. After i know my true nature and always abide in it. i

> will, without any fear or hasitation, say " The eye cannot see the

eye

> (or the 'I' the 'I'). " , as there is no doubt.

> >

> > Else i see the 'snake' (which is superimposed on 'rope' - by

false

> illusion), but keep on saying that i see the 'rope'.

> >

> > My words indiicate my state of mind and where i stand.

> >

> > I think we are not been able to tune ourselves with each other.

Out

> line thinking is a bit different, but i think our Goal is the same.

> >

> > Anyway. bye

> >

> > AUM

> >

> > Sujal

> >

> > " souldreamone@ AOL.com " <souldreamone@ AOL.com>

> > Nisargadatta

> > Friday, 11 April, 2008 1:39:50 AM

> > Re: Love all or none of it . . . .

> >

> > In a message dated 4/10/2008 3:48:46 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

> sujal_u writes:

> > Hi Phil,

> >

> > Yes i agree that we think and mind is active in

> > dreams.

> >

> > I also give importance to meditation and believe that

> > without meditation i cannot have that awareness

> > constantly thoughout day and night.

> >

> > Meditation is trying to be aware of the SELF according

> > to me.

> >

> > The statement about dreams that i made originally

> > belongs to a senior disciple of Swami Chinmaya

> > (founder of Chinmaya mission nad Swami Tadrupanand of

> > Jnana and manan ashram.

> >

> > Also the importance i give to meditation of chanting

> > gods name or being aware of the SELF can be found in

> > Traditional Scriptures if non-duality like

> >

> > Vivek Choodamani of Sri Adi Sankaracharya says that

> > " there is no way other than meditation (sadhana) to

> > realise yor true nature.

> >

> > The term meditation is sometimes loosely defined.

> > 1. It may be chanting the name of any form of God

> > (Path of Devotion - Pratik Upasana)

> > 2. Chanting AUM (formless approach)- Pratik Upasana

> > 3. The path of Knowledge - Neti Neti, Sri Ramana

> > Maharshi's approach, Sri Nisargadattaji' s approach,

> > and Atmashatak or Nirvana Shatak of Sri Adi

> > Sankaracharya (Ahangra upasna)

> >

> > * Pratik - Symbol - AUM represents the formless

> > atribute of God just as national flag represents the

> > entire nation.

> >

> > Similarly- chanting God's name ( say Lord RAMA) also

> > represents GOD but with atributes.

> >

> > I try to follow Indian Scriptures (Shaastra) as

> > Shaastra is nothing but collection of the experience

> > of innumerable realised saints with time immorial.

> >

> > So i consider them as authentic.

> >

> > AUM

> >

> > Sujal

> >

> > As soon as someone says " there is no other way than meditation "

> somebody 'Awakens' without ever having meditated. It's not wisdom

to

> place constraints on infinite potential. There are infinite ways

and

> there are no methods. The methods and practices are distractions,

> though these distractions may be a necessary part of ones path.

> >

> > What does it mean to be aware of the SELF? What thing is it that

is

> aware of another thing?

> >

> > Phil

> >

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> >

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