Guest guest Posted April 15, 2008 Report Share Posted April 15, 2008 I wonder sometimes that even though it is true that " I am That " , whether it is as easy a remembering " I am that " and repeating it to oneself frequently.I was first familiar in my " search " with a group of Hindu Saivites. I never became a monk or gave myself fully over to this group, or to any group ever, but I did admire and like this group, particularly their spiritual head, Sivaya Subramuniyaswami. Subramuniya was said to be, and I believe it true, a realizer of what is called Nirvikalpa Samadhi, a very high form of samadhi, a completely formless void. But he teaches that the world and the individual are relatively real and that the illusion of separateness does somehow create and individual " soul " , for want of a better word, which reincarnates and takes many lifetimes to reach the certain realization of it's oneness with God, and the illusory nature of it's seeming individuality. Anyone else out there think that the illusion of separateness may be the divine play of God and that it takes a lot more than just repeating it to oneself and believing that we are " That " ? That karma may have relative reality, that we have a relatively real soul, and that even if " All is One " , the seeming separation is a play of God and is not so easily dispensed with as a simple illusion that one can " think away " ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 16, 2008 Report Share Posted April 16, 2008 Nisargadatta , " ronald henson " <hehhop wrote: > > I wonder sometimes that even though it is true that " I am That " , > whether it is as easy a remembering " I am that " and repeating it to > oneself frequently.I was first familiar in my " search " with a group of > Hindu Saivites. I never became a monk or gave myself fully over to this > group, or to any group ever, but I did admire and like this group, > particularly their spiritual head, Sivaya Subramuniyaswami. Subramuniya > was said to be, and I believe it true, a realizer of what is called > Nirvikalpa Samadhi, a very high form of samadhi, a completely formless > void. But he teaches that the world and the individual are relatively > real and that the illusion of separateness does somehow create and > individual " soul " , for want of a better word, which reincarnates and > takes many lifetimes to reach the certain realization of it's oneness > with God, and the illusory nature of it's seeming individuality. Anyone > else out there think that the illusion of separateness may be the > divine play of God and that it takes a lot more than just repeating it > to oneself and believing that we are " That " ? That karma may have > relative reality, that we have a relatively real soul, and that even > if " All is One " , the seeming separation is a play of God and is not so > easily dispensed with as a simple illusion that one can " think away " ? yes....it's not such easy.....agree with your words many so called " spiritual " people react kind of allergic when it come to make some (more) effort....in order to get closer to oneSelf.... often they choose very smart....nice talking " gurus " .....so, teachers who take the effort in running all over the world.....telling people that they are " that " ....that It take no effort....that's endlessly simple......that nobody need any guru or teachers....etc.... maybe this work for simple minded people.....following the words of such simple minded gurus & teachers.... reflecting ignorance ....perfectly in each..... and are having a lovely time.....each time they meet each through the words written in more or less famous nice book..... or during a nice conference and meeting.....having & getting a lovely smile..... .....celebrating nicely there dependencies to each..... like ever... Ignorance Is about Ignorance..... and nothing else .... Marc > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 16, 2008 Report Share Posted April 16, 2008 Dear Friends Could you tell me any master like Nisargadatta ji mahraj in modern days or any jnani in India (In Delhi) whom i can meet. Actually still i am not able to understand book I am That. Thanx in advance Manjit Nisargadatta From: dennis_travis33Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 07:36:07 +0000 Re: easy advaita Nisargadatta , "ronald henson" <hehhop wrote:>> I wonder sometimes that even though it is true that "I am That", > whether it is as easy a remembering "I am that" and repeating it to > oneself frequently.I was first familiar in my "search" with a group of > Hindu Saivites. I never became a monk or gave myself fully over to this > group, or to any group ever, but I did admire and like this group, > particularly their spiritual head, Sivaya Subramuniyaswami. Subramuniya > was said to be, and I believe it true, a realizer of what is called > Nirvikalpa Samadhi, a very high form of samadhi, a completely formless > void. But he teaches that the world and the individual are relatively > real and that the illusion of separateness does somehow create and > individual "soul", for want of a better word, which reincarnates and > takes many lifetimes to reach the certain realization of it's oneness > with God, and the illusory nature of it's seeming individuality. Anyone > else out there think that the illusion of separateness may be the > divine play of God and that it takes a lot more than just repeating it > to oneself and believing that we are "That"? That karma may have > relative reality, that we have a relatively real soul, and that even > if "All is One", the seeming separation is a play of God and is not so > easily dispensed with as a simple illusion that one can "think away"?yes....it's not such easy.....agree with your wordsmany so called "spiritual" people react kind of allergic when it come to make some (more) effort....in order to get closer to oneSelf....often they choose very smart....nice talking "gurus".....so, teachers who take the effort in running all over the world.....telling people that they are "that"....that It take no effort....that's endlessly simple......that nobody need any guru or teachers....etc....maybe this work for simple minded people.....following the words of such simple minded gurus & teachers....reflecting ignorance ....perfectly in each.....and are having a lovely time.....each time they meet each through the words written in more or less famous nice book.....or during a nice conference and meeting.....having & getting a lovely smile.........celebrating nicely there dependencies to each.....like ever...Ignorance Is about Ignorance.....and nothing else...Marc> Planning marriage in 2008! Join Shaadi.com matrimony FREE! Try it now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 16, 2008 Report Share Posted April 16, 2008 Nisargadatta , manjit malhi <malhimanjit wrote: > > Dear Friends > > Could you tell me any master like Nisargadatta ji mahraj in modern days or any jnani in India (In Delhi) whom i can meet. Actually still i am not able to understand book I am That. > > Thanx in advance > > Manjit there's plenty of masters to spare all over the place. if and when you ever think that you do understand that book on THAT.. know for sure that you aren't even close. ..b b.b. > Nisargadatta: dennis_travis33: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 07:36:07 +0000 Re: easy advaita > > > > > Nisargadatta , " ronald henson " <hehhop@> wrote:>> I wonder sometimes that even though it is true that " I am That " , > whether it is as easy a remembering " I am that " and repeating it to > oneself frequently.I was first familiar in my " search " with a group of > Hindu Saivites. I never became a monk or gave myself fully over to this > group, or to any group ever, but I did admire and like this group, > particularly their spiritual head, Sivaya Subramuniyaswami. Subramuniya > was said to be, and I believe it true, a realizer of what is called > Nirvikalpa Samadhi, a very high form of samadhi, a completely formless > void. But he teaches that the world and the individual are relatively > real and that the illusion of separateness does somehow create and > individual " soul " , for want of a better word, which reincarnates and > takes many lifetimes to reach the certain realization of it's oneness > with God, and the illusory nature of it's seeming individuality. Anyone > else out there think that the illusion of separateness may be the > divine play of God and that it takes a lot more than just repeating it > to oneself and believing that we are " That " ? That karma may have > relative reality, that we have a relatively real soul, and that even > if " All is One " , the seeming separation is a play of God and is not so > easily dispensed with as a simple illusion that one can " think away " ?yes....it's not such easy.....agree with your wordsmany so called " spiritual " people react kind of allergic when it come to make some (more) effort....in order to get closer to oneSelf....often they choose very smart....nice talking " gurus " .....so, teachers who take the effort in running all over the world.....telling people that they are " that " ....that It take no effort....that's endlessly simple......that nobody need any guru or teachers....etc....maybe this work for simple minded people.....following the words of such simple minded gurus & teachers....reflecting ignorance ....perfectly in each.....and are having a lovely time.....each time they meet each through the words written in more or less famous nice book.....or during a nice conference and meeting.....having & getting a lovely smile.........celebrating nicely there dependencies to each.....like ever...Ignorance Is about Ignorance.....and nothing else...Marc> _______________ > Video: Get a glimpse of the latest in Cricket, Bollywood, News and Fashion. Only on MSN videos. > http://video.msn.com/?mkt=en-in > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 16, 2008 Report Share Posted April 16, 2008 Nisargadatta , manjit malhi <malhimanjit wrote: > > Dear Friends > > Could you tell me any master like Nisargadatta ji mahraj in modern days or any jnani in India (In Delhi) whom i can meet. Actually still i am not able to understand book I am That. > > Thanx in advance > > Manjit > Hi Manjit, Do you believe if you could understand Maharaj's " I am That " it will bring any change ? Do you believe any guru could bring that change ? Do believe you can get enlightened through the light of another ? " You must be your own light " J.K. A stupid person makes on his path to intelligence only stupidities. Werner > Nisargadatta: dennis_travis33: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 07:36:07 +0000 Re: easy advaita > > > > > Nisargadatta , " ronald henson " <hehhop@> wrote:>> I wonder sometimes that even though it is true that " I am That " , > whether it is as easy a remembering " I am that " and repeating it to > oneself frequently.I was first familiar in my " search " with a group of > Hindu Saivites. I never became a monk or gave myself fully over to this > group, or to any group ever, but I did admire and like this group, > particularly their spiritual head, Sivaya Subramuniyaswami. Subramuniya > was said to be, and I believe it true, a realizer of what is called > Nirvikalpa Samadhi, a very high form of samadhi, a completely formless > void. But he teaches that the world and the individual are relatively > real and that the illusion of separateness does somehow create and > individual " soul " , for want of a better word, which reincarnates and > takes many lifetimes to reach the certain realization of it's oneness > with God, and the illusory nature of it's seeming individuality. Anyone > else out there think that the illusion of separateness may be the > divine play of God and that it takes a lot more than just repeating it > to oneself and believing that we are " That " ? That karma may have > relative reality, that we have a relatively real soul, and that even > if " All is One " , the seeming separation is a play of God and is not so > easily dispensed with as a simple illusion that one can " think away " ?yes....it's not such easy.....agree with your wordsmany so called " spiritual " people react kind of allergic when it come to make some (more) effort....in order to get closer to oneSelf....often they choose very smart....nice talking " gurus " .....so, teachers who take the effort in running all over the world.....telling people that they are " that " ....that It take no effort....that's endlessly simple......that nobody need any guru or teachers....etc....maybe this work for simple minded people.....following the words of such simple minded gurus & teachers....reflecting ignorance ....perfectly in each.....and are having a lovely time.....each time they meet each through the words written in more or less famous nice book.....or during a nice conference and meeting.....having & getting a lovely smile.........celebrating nicely there dependencies to each.....like ever...Ignorance Is about Ignorance.....and nothing else...Marc> _______________ > Video: Get a glimpse of the latest in Cricket, Bollywood, News and Fashion. Only on MSN videos. > http://video.msn.com/?mkt=en-in > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 16, 2008 Report Share Posted April 16, 2008 " I wonder sometimes that even though it is true that " I am That " , whether it is as easy a remembering " I am that " and repeating it to oneself frequently " It never was about remembering or repeating " I am That " . " Anyone else out there think that the illusion of separateness may be the divine play of God and that it takes a lot more than just repeating it to oneself and believing that we are " That " ? " It is not about repeating it and believing " I am That " . Repeating, remembering, and believing are all on a mental level. This has nothing to do with the mind. If there is a direct realization (direct experience would be a worse phrase but may help point to what I am saying), then there is no need to repeat, remember, or believe. A king sitting on his own thrown does not repeat " I am the king, I am the king " ...nor does he try to remember he is the king...nor is it a belief he is trying to keep that he is the king. He realizes he is king and that is that. " ...is not so easily dispensed with as a simple illusion that one can " think away " ? " It is not about thinking at all…you have to directly realize you are That. Inquire...find out who/what you really are. Namaste, ~ Eric Putkonen http://www.awaken2life.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 16, 2008 Report Share Posted April 16, 2008 In a message dated 4/15/2008 12:28:03 PM Pacific Daylight Time, hehhop writes: I wonder sometimes that even though it is true that "I am That", ****You don't know that it's true. You would have to begin with that. whether it is as easy a remembering "I am that" and repeating it to oneself frequently. ****Mental programming is what forms the illusion to begin with and cannot end it. I was first familiar in my "search" with a group of Hindu Saivites. I never became a monk or gave myself fully over to this group, or to any group ever, but I did admire and like this group, particularly their spiritual head, Sivaya Subramuniyaswami. Subramuniya was said to be, and I believe it true, a realizer of what is called Nirvikalpa Samadhi, a very high form of samadhi, a completely formless void. But he teaches that the world and the individual are relatively real and that the illusion of separateness does somehow create and individual "soul", for want of a better word, which reincarnates and takes many lifetimes to reach the certain realization of it's oneness with God, ****It seems that when the individual dies, the memory and ego/personality (which is all the illusion of the individual is) dissolve. If a new vehicle of perception is formed in Consciousness, it is born without memory, with a different body in different circumstances and with tendencies and propensities that serve that particular experiential vehicle and may have no relationship to any other that was ever born. So, where is the 'you' that moves from one lifetime to the next? and the illusory nature of it's seeming individuality. Anyone else out there think that the illusion of separateness may be the divine play of God and that it takes a lot more than just repeating it to oneself and believing that we are "That"? ****There is no method at all for Self Realization. That karma may have relative reality, that we have a relatively real soul, and that even if "All is One", the seeming separation is a play of God and is not so easily dispensed with as a simple illusion that one can "think away"? ****Thought IS the illusion. Phil It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money Finance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 16, 2008 Report Share Posted April 16, 2008 Nisargadatta , manjit malhi <malhimanjit wrote: > > Dear Friends > > Could you tell me any master like Nisargadatta ji mahraj in modern days or any jnani in India (In Delhi) whom i can meet. Actually still i am not able to understand book I am That. > > Thanx in advance > > Manjit Hi Manjit, can't give you an answer....don't know much about Nisargadatta ji mahraj.......so don't know about masters being like him. I'm wondering why Nisargadatta could/would be a good master....when i'm reading in here some (foolish) words from people being more or less fanatic about him...... However.....as soon as " you " are open to meet & see with a living master..... " you " will meet & see your master... For most of people....it's just impossible to even come in touch with a master.....due to their big ego who constantly is running away from some peace & light.....so from him/herSelf....so from the master too.... so....just prepare yourself....to meet & see a master....one day... Marc > > > Nisargadatta: dennis_travis33: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 07:36:07 +0000 Re: easy advaita > > > > > Nisargadatta , " ronald henson " <hehhop@> wrote:>> I wonder sometimes that even though it is true that " I am That " , > whether it is as easy a remembering " I am that " and repeating it to > oneself frequently.I was first familiar in my " search " with a group of > Hindu Saivites. I never became a monk or gave myself fully over to this > group, or to any group ever, but I did admire and like this group, > particularly their spiritual head, Sivaya Subramuniyaswami. Subramuniya > was said to be, and I believe it true, a realizer of what is called > Nirvikalpa Samadhi, a very high form of samadhi, a completely formless > void. But he teaches that the world and the individual are relatively > real and that the illusion of separateness does somehow create and > individual " soul " , for want of a better word, which reincarnates and > takes many lifetimes to reach the certain realization of it's oneness > with God, and the illusory nature of it's seeming individuality. Anyone > else out there think that the illusion of separateness may be the > divine play of God and that it takes a lot more than just repeating it > to oneself and believing that we are " That " ? That karma may have > relative reality, that we have a relatively real soul, and that even > if " All is One " , the seeming separation is a play of God and is not so > easily dispensed with as a simple illusion that one can " think away " ?yes....it's not such easy.....agree with your wordsmany so called " spiritual " people react kind of allergic when it come to make some (more) effort....in order to get closer to oneSelf....often they choose very smart....nice talking " gurus " .....so, teachers who take the effort in running all over the world.....telling people that they are " that " ....that It take no effort....that's endlessly simple......that nobody need any guru or teachers....etc....maybe this work for simple minded people.....following the words of such simple minded gurus & teachers....reflecting ignorance ....perfectly in each.....and are having a lovely time.....each time they meet each through the words written in more or less famous nice book.....or during a nice conference and meeting.....having & getting a lovely smile.........celebrating nicely there dependencies to each.....like ever...Ignorance Is about Ignorance.....and nothing else...Marc> _______________ > Video: Get a glimpse of the latest in Cricket, Bollywood, News and Fashion. Only on MSN videos. > http://video.msn.com/?mkt=en-in > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 16, 2008 Report Share Posted April 16, 2008 Nisargadatta , souldreamone wrote: > > > In a message dated 4/15/2008 12:28:03 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > hehhop writes: > > I wonder sometimes that even though it is true that " I am That " , > > > > ****You don't know that it's true. You would have to begin with that. > > > > whether it is as easy a remembering " I am that " and repeating it to > oneself frequently. > > > > ****Mental programming is what forms the illusion to begin with and cannot > end it. > > > > > I was first familiar in my " search " with a group of > Hindu Saivites. I never became a monk or gave myself fully over to this > group, or to any group ever, but I did admire and like this group, > particularly their spiritual head, Sivaya Subramuniyaswami. Subramuniya > was said to be, and I believe it true, a realizer of what is called > Nirvikalpa Samadhi, a very high form of samadhi, a completely formless > void. But he teaches that the world and the individual are relatively > real and that the illusion of separateness does somehow create and > individual " soul " , for want of a better word, which reincarnates and > takes many lifetimes to reach the certain realization of it's oneness > with God, > > > ****It seems that when the individual dies, the memory and ego/personality > (which is all the illusion of the individual is) dissolve. If a new vehicle of > perception is formed in Consciousness, it is born without memory, with a > different body in different circumstances and with tendencies and propensities > that serve that particular experiential vehicle and may have no relationship > to any other that was ever born. So, where is the 'you' that moves from one > lifetime to the next? > > > > > and the illusory nature of it's seeming individuality. Anyone > else out there think that the illusion of separateness may be the > divine play of God and that it takes a lot more than just repeating it > to oneself and believing that we are " That " ? > > > ****There is no method at all for Self Realization. > > > > That karma may have > relative reality, that we have a relatively real soul, and that even > if " All is One " , the seeming separation is a play of God and is not so > easily dispensed with as a simple illusion that one can " think away " ? > > > > > ****Thought IS the illusion. > > Phil do you think so? what a thought... for a fantasy. ..b b.b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2008 Report Share Posted April 17, 2008 Dear Manjit, I know a few saints and their ashrams. I stay in mumbai. Swami Chinmaya (Founder of Chinmaya West) He i a very famous advait guru. His teachings are based on tradiitional shastras. He has left his mortal body and is succedded by swami Tejomayananda. For people like us, they regularly conduct basic cources / seminars (2 hr long), which are based generally on Gita (on a particular chapter). the mission conducts a course for 2 1/2 years which contains prasthantari i.e. 1. Prakaran Granth (created by Sri Adi Sankaracharya - these are basic books on Non-duality and must read) 2. Bhagawat Gita: But since Gita is a essence. all the basic concepts ar not explained in elobarate way, but covers everything. So before reading Gita they teach these Granths. 3. Upnishads: there are 10 main upnishads and 108 minor ones. 4. Brahmasutra: The topmost text (by Shankaracharya) They explain both dual and non-dual approach, but stress on non-dual one. Gita is their main focus. They also teach how to sing bhajans, etc. Delhi link: http://www.chinmayamissiondelhi.org/aboutus.asp Main centre: Central Chinmaya mission : Mumbai (Powai). Sri Ramakrishna Mission: based on advait vedanta. Again this mission stressses on advaita, but preaches dual approach and gives importance to services. main centre is at belur. www.belurmath.org/ delhi link: http://www.rkmissiondel.org/ Sri Ramakrishna was Swami Vivekanada's Guru. the message of Sri Ramakrishna was that " all the lead to the same goal " Weather dual or non-dual or tantric approach or by vaishnavas or shaivate approach, all path have the same destination. he preaches and insists that a person should be guided in a path which suits his nature. Ultimately it will lead to the same truth. As far as Nisargadattaji's book 'I AM THAT' is conserened, i have not read the book. But the 'I AM THAT' is one of the great verse Tat Tvam Asi. Entire Rig Veda explains the meaning of this statement. But as i said before, it is not for everybody. We should begin with Dual approach or atleast join the mission lead by a spiritual guru, under the core of the teachings by attending seminars. It is a trial and error method. If you find the thoughts of a spiritual guru interesting, then please read his books, interact with the active members. I also agree with Marc that we do not accept guru because of our ego. Society is allergic to the word guru. Well if you agree with sombody who says that " No Guru is Needed " and " there are no steps of salvation " , etc, then actually HE/SHE IS YOUR GURU. Nothing happens without Guru. Entire Guru Gita explains the importance of a Guru. It is a dialogue between Lord Shiva and Goddes Parvati. AUM Sujal --- manjit malhi <malhimanjit wrote: > Dear Friends > > Could you tell me any master like Nisargadatta ji > mahraj in modern days or any jnani in India (In > Delhi) whom i can meet. Actually still i am not able > to understand book I am That. > > Thanx in advance > > Manjit > > > Nisargadatta: > dennis_travis33: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 > 07:36:07 +0000 Re: easy > advaita > > > > > Nisargadatta , " ronald henson " > <hehhop wrote:>> I wonder sometimes that even > though it is true that " I am That " , > whether it is > as easy a remembering " I am that " and repeating it > to > oneself frequently.I was first familiar in my > " search " with a group of > Hindu Saivites. I never > became a monk or gave myself fully over to this > > group, or to any group ever, but I did admire and > like this group, > particularly their spiritual > head, Sivaya Subramuniyaswami. Subramuniya > was > said to be, and I believe it true, a realizer of > what is called > Nirvikalpa Samadhi, a very high > form of samadhi, a completely formless > void. But > he teaches that the world and the individual are > relatively > real and that the illusion of > separateness does somehow create and > individual > " soul " , for want of a better word, which > reincarnates and > takes many lifetimes to reach the > certain realization of it's oneness > with God, and > the illusory nature of it's seeming individuality. > Anyone > else out there think that the illusion of > separateness may be the > divine play of God and > that it takes a lot more than just repeating it > to > oneself and believing that we are " That " ? That karma > may have > relative reality, that we have a > relatively real soul, and that even > if " All is > One " , the seeming separation is a play of God and is > not so > easily dispensed with as a simple illusion > that one can " think away " ?yes....it's not such > easy.....agree with your wordsmany so called > " spiritual " people react kind of allergic when it > come to make some (more) effort....in order to get > closer to oneSelf....often they choose very > smart....nice talking " gurus " .....so, teachers who > take the effort in running all over the > world.....telling people that they are > " that " ....that It take no effort....that's endlessly > simple......that nobody need any guru or > teachers....etc....maybe this work for simple minded > people.....following the words of such simple minded > gurus & teachers....reflecting ignorance ....perfectly > in each.....and are having a lovely time.....each > time they meet each through the words written in > more or less famous nice book.....or during a nice > conference and meeting.....having & getting a lovely > smile.........celebrating nicely there dependencies > to each.....like ever...Ignorance Is about > Ignorance.....and nothing else...Marc> > > > > > > > _______________ > Video: Get a glimpse of the latest in Cricket, > Bollywood, News and Fashion. Only on MSN videos. > http://video.msn.com/?mkt=en-in Best Jokes, Best Friends, Best Food and more. Go to http://in.promos./groups/bestof/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2008 Report Share Posted April 17, 2008 Dear Manjit, Due to lack of time i was not able to write more. I also find SWAMI AVDHESHANAND GIRI MAHARAJ. He is a MahaMandaleshwar. There are only 14 Mahamandeleshwars in India. After, Sankaracharya, which is the highest post for a Hindu spiritual Head, Mahamandeleshwar is given. His discourses are also aired on Astha TV in the night. He focuses of Gita, Srimad Bhagawat and also Ramayan. His discourse on these Mahakavyas and puranas are unique and he connects them with advaita vedanta Please find the link below. http://www.prabhuprem.org.in/branches.html I hope this info is useful to you. AUM Sujal --- manjit malhi <malhimanjit wrote: > Dear Friends > > Could you tell me any master like Nisargadatta ji > mahraj in modern days or any jnani in India (In > Delhi) whom i can meet. Actually still i am not able > to understand book I am That. > > Thanx in advance > > Manjit > > > Nisargadatta: > dennis_travis33: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 > 07:36:07 +0000 Re: easy > advaita > > > > > Nisargadatta , " ronald henson " > <hehhop wrote:>> I wonder sometimes that even > though it is true that " I am That " , > whether it is > as easy a remembering " I am that " and repeating it > to > oneself frequently.I was first familiar in my > " search " with a group of > Hindu Saivites. I never > became a monk or gave myself fully over to this > > group, or to any group ever, but I did admire and > like this group, > particularly their spiritual > head, Sivaya Subramuniyaswami. Subramuniya > was > said to be, and I believe it true, a realizer of > what is called > Nirvikalpa Samadhi, a very high > form of samadhi, a completely formless > void. But > he teaches that the world and the individual are > relatively > real and that the illusion of > separateness does somehow create and > individual > " soul " , for want of a better word, which > reincarnates and > takes many lifetimes to reach the > certain realization of it's oneness > with God, and > the illusory nature of it's seeming individuality. > Anyone > else out there think that the illusion of > separateness may be the > divine play of God and > that it takes a lot more than just repeating it > to > oneself and believing that we are " That " ? That karma > may have > relative reality, that we have a > relatively real soul, and that even > if " All is > One " , the seeming separation is a play of God and is > not so > easily dispensed with as a simple illusion > that one can " think away " ?yes....it's not such > easy.....agree with your wordsmany so called > " spiritual " people react kind of allergic when it > come to make some (more) effort....in order to get > closer to oneSelf....often they choose very > smart....nice talking " gurus " .....so, teachers who > take the effort in running all over the > world.....telling people that they are > " that " ....that It take no effort....that's endlessly > simple......that nobody need any guru or > teachers....etc....maybe this work for simple minded > people.....following the words of such simple minded > gurus & teachers....reflecting ignorance ....perfectly > in each.....and are having a lovely time.....each > time they meet each through the words written in > more or less famous nice book.....or during a nice > conference and meeting.....having & getting a lovely > smile.........celebrating nicely there dependencies > to each.....like ever...Ignorance Is about > Ignorance.....and nothing else...Marc> > > > > > > > _______________ > Video: Get a glimpse of the latest in Cricket, > Bollywood, News and Fashion. Only on MSN videos. > http://video.msn.com/?mkt=en-in Share files, take polls, and make new friends - all under one roof. Go to http://in.promos./groups/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2008 Report Share Posted April 17, 2008 Nisargadatta , " Eric Putkonen " <eputkonen wrote: > > " I wonder sometimes that even though it is true that " I am That " , > whether it is as easy a remembering " I am that " and repeating it to > oneself frequently " > > It never was about remembering or repeating " I am That " . > > " Anyone else out there think that the illusion of separateness may be > the divine play of God and that it takes a lot more than just > repeating it to oneself and believing that we are " That " ? " > > It is not about repeating it and believing " I am That " . Repeating, > remembering, and believing are all on a mental level. This has > nothing to do with the mind. If there is a direct realization > (direct experience would be a worse phrase but may help point to what > I am saying), then there is no need to repeat, remember, or believe. > > A king sitting on his own thrown does not repeat " I am the king, I am > the king " ...nor does he try to remember he is the king...nor is it a > belief he is trying to keep that he is the king. He realizes he is > king and that is that. > > " ...is not so easily dispensed with as a simple illusion that one > can " think away " ? " > > It is not about thinking at all…you have to directly realize you are > That. > Inquire...find out who/what you really are. > > Namaste, > > ~ Eric Putkonen > http://www.awaken2life.org > In a very odd way....... you are That. Because " That " is merely a conceptual construct housed within the synaptic interaction out of which the sense of a separate self emerges. 'That " and " you " are the same " thing " . Pretty neat huh? toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2008 Report Share Posted April 17, 2008 Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " ronald henson " <hehhop@> > wrote: > > > > I wonder sometimes that even though it is true that " I am That " , > > whether it is as easy a remembering " I am that " and repeating it to > > oneself frequently.I was first familiar in my " search " with a group > of > > Hindu Saivites. I never became a monk or gave myself fully over to > this > > group, or to any group ever, but I did admire and like this group, > > particularly their spiritual head, Sivaya Subramuniyaswami. > Subramuniya > > was said to be, and I believe it true, a realizer of what is called > > Nirvikalpa Samadhi, a very high form of samadhi, a completely > formless > > void. But he teaches that the world and the individual are > relatively > > real and that the illusion of separateness does somehow create and > > individual " soul " , for want of a better word, which reincarnates > and > > takes many lifetimes to reach the certain realization of it's > oneness > > with God, and the illusory nature of it's seeming individuality. > Anyone > > else out there think that the illusion of separateness may be the > > divine play of God and that it takes a lot more than just repeating > it > > to oneself and believing that we are " That " ? That karma may have > > relative reality, that we have a relatively real soul, and that > even > > if " All is One " , the seeming separation is a play of God and is not > so > > easily dispensed with as a simple illusion that one can " think > away " ? > > > > yes....it's not such easy.....agree with your words > > many so called " spiritual " people react kind of allergic when it come > to make some (more) effort....in order to get closer to oneSelf.... > > often they choose very smart....nice talking " gurus " .....so, teachers > who take the effort in running all over the world.....telling people > that they are " that " ....that It take no effort....that's endlessly > simple......that nobody need any guru or teachers....etc.... > > maybe this work for simple minded people.....following the words of > such simple minded gurus & teachers.... > > reflecting ignorance ....perfectly in each..... > > and are having a lovely time.....each time they meet each through the > words written in more or less famous nice book..... > > or during a nice conference and meeting.....having & getting a lovely > smile..... > > ....celebrating nicely there dependencies to each..... > > like ever... > > Ignorance Is about Ignorance..... > > and nothing else > > ... > > Marc > > > > >Marc, thanks for your reply. A number of modern " teachers " seem to emphasize the simplicity of the Self and how we are That even now and it takes no path or effort to reach that realization. I think it cannot be that easy. These teachers may be right that the Self is simplicity itself, the only reality, and that we are already That, and no effort need take place since there is " no person to make the effort " . I theorize, am certain of nothing, that our " seeming " though unreal individual selves do have a very strong " relative reality " and that oneness with God is not so simple as repeating to oneself. " I am not real, there is no " person " who is unenlightend, and no goal to be attained since right in this " Now " I am already one with God..... that is, the " I " which does not really exist causes the illusion of separatness and all that goes with it, including suffering (illusory suffering, of course) since it happens to no one)is simply a result of wrong thinking on the part of the nonexistent individual. If there is no " individual " then how is it that the erroneous concepts of a non person can lead to this seeming self and cloud over the only reality, the Self? Our existence as seeming individual selves may be in some sense illusory, but if so it is a very, very powerful and persistent illusion. It could well be that we do possess, or are, " souls " or something like sould, and that the One Being has somehow willed the soul to have a mega strong sense that it is an " individual " and no amount of " I am Thating " will bring enlightenment,or, according to these teachers show us (the nonexistent us) that there has been nothing but enlightenment all along. I wish it were that simple. I think though that the wishful thinking that it is all that simple is just that.. wishful thinking. I have one experience which wven allows me to believe that there is a Self, let me call " It " God. I have only one reason to think that what my friends at Saiva Siddhanta Church in Kauii, Hawaii, teach and what their now passed away Master Subramuniya taught is real, is truth. That reason is my memory of an LSD " trip " I went on in 1969. Although the memory of it is a far cry from how I felt while actually on it, the memory of it does fit well with the teachings of Advaita Vedanta. Now I have no other " strong proof " that any of this is true.... that there is enlightenment. The memory of the LSD trip fits in with what is taught by Advaitans, and it serves to cause me to think the teachings of Subramunya and other Advaitans are probably true. It does not make me sure they are true, but it serves to keep me open and to think that this advaita is truth. I still have a pretty serious doubt level in me, though. Ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2008 Report Share Posted April 17, 2008 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Eric Putkonen " <eputkonen@> wrote: > > > > " I wonder sometimes that even though it is true that " I am That " , > > whether it is as easy a remembering " I am that " and repeating it to > > oneself frequently " > > > > It never was about remembering or repeating " I am That " . > > > > " Anyone else out there think that the illusion of separateness may be > > the divine play of God and that it takes a lot more than just > > repeating it to oneself and believing that we are " That " ? " > > > > It is not about repeating it and believing " I am That " . Repeating, > > remembering, and believing are all on a mental level. This has > > nothing to do with the mind. If there is a direct realization > > (direct experience would be a worse phrase but may help point to what > > I am saying), then there is no need to repeat, remember, or believe. > > > > A king sitting on his own thrown does not repeat " I am the king, I am > > the king " ...nor does he try to remember he is the king...nor is it a > > belief he is trying to keep that he is the king. He realizes he is > > king and that is that. > > > > " ...is not so easily dispensed with as a simple illusion that one > > can " think away " ? " > > > > It is not about thinking at all…you have to directly realize you are > > That. > > Inquire...find out who/what you really are. > > > > Namaste, > > > > ~ Eric Putkonen > > http://www.awaken2life.org > > > > > > In a very odd way....... you are That. > > Because " That " is merely a conceptual construct housed within the synaptic interaction out > of which the sense of a separate self emerges. > > 'That " and " you " are the same " thing " . > > Pretty neat huh? > > > > toombaru > Trouble is Toomie, who can figure it out before *that* begets *this* and all these little mind bubbles start bumping into one another and then you got the makings of Armageddon inside that synoptic treasure hold called *I*. Shit, how can you make peace with *That* when ya can't make peace with *This*. Seriously complicated unless one is seriously absurd. ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2008 Report Share Posted April 17, 2008 > > > > > > In a very odd way....... you are That. > > > > Because " That " is merely a conceptual construct housed within the > synaptic interaction out > > of which the sense of a separate self emerges. > > > > 'That " and " you " are the same " thing " . > > > > Pretty neat huh? > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > Trouble is Toomie, who can figure it out before *that* begets *this* > and all these little mind bubbles start bumping into one another and > then you got the makings of Armageddon inside that synoptic treasure > hold called *I*. > > Shit, how can you make peace with *That* when ya can't make peace with > *This*. > > Seriously complicated unless one is seriously absurd. > > ;-) > So..................are you gonna let me rank you? toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2008 Report Share Posted April 17, 2008 - toombaru2006 Nisargadatta Thursday, April 17, 2008 1:53 PM Re: easy advaita > > > > > > In a very odd way....... you are That.> > > > Because "That" is merely a conceptual construct housed within the> synaptic interaction out > > of which the sense of a separate self emerges.> > > > 'That" and "you" are the same "thing".> > > > Pretty neat huh?> > > > > > > > toombaru> >> > > > Trouble is Toomie, who can figure it out before *that* begets *this*> and all these little mind bubbles start bumping into one another and> then you got the makings of Armageddon inside that synoptic treasure> hold called *I*. > > Shit, how can you make peace with *That* when ya can't make peace with> *This*.> > Seriously complicated unless one is seriously absurd.> > ;-)>So..................are you gonna let me rank you?toombaru LOL. I'm gonna let you do anything you want to; seems to me you already have. Wink. a. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.0/1383 - Release 4/17/2008 9:00 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2008 Report Share Posted April 17, 2008 - Anna Ruiz Nisargadatta Thursday, April 17, 2008 2:07 PM Re: Re: easy advaita - toombaru2006 Nisargadatta Thursday, April 17, 2008 1:53 PM Re: easy advaita > > > > > > In a very odd way....... you are That.> > > > Because "That" is merely a conceptual construct housed within the> synaptic interaction out > > of which the sense of a separate self emerges.> > > > 'That" and "you" are the same "thing".> > > > Pretty neat huh?> > > > > > > > toombaru> >> > > > Trouble is Toomie, who can figure it out before *that* begets *this*> and all these little mind bubbles start bumping into one another and> then you got the makings of Armageddon inside that synoptic treasure> hold called *I*. > > Shit, how can you make peace with *That* when ya can't make peace with> *This*.> > Seriously complicated unless one is seriously absurd.> > ;-)>So..................are you gonna let me rank you?toombaru LOL. I'm gonna let you do anything you want to; seems to me you already have. Wink. a. p.s. do I need a file with that? Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.0/1383 - Release 4/17/2008 9:00 AM Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.0/1383 - Release 4/17/2008 9:00 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2008 Report Share Posted April 17, 2008 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > In a very odd way....... you are That. > > > > > > Because " That " is merely a conceptual construct housed within the > > synaptic interaction out > > > of which the sense of a separate self emerges. > > > > > > 'That " and " you " are the same " thing " . > > > > > > Pretty neat huh? > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > Trouble is Toomie, who can figure it out before *that* begets *this* > > and all these little mind bubbles start bumping into one another and > > then you got the makings of Armageddon inside that synoptic treasure > > hold called *I*. > > > > Shit, how can you make peace with *That* when ya can't make peace with > > *This*. > > > > Seriously complicated unless one is seriously absurd. > > > > ;-) > > > > > So..................are you gonna let me rank you? > > > > > > toombaru the whole concept is rank toombaru. ..b b.b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2008 Report Share Posted April 19, 2008 In a message dated 4/19/2008 4:54:54 AM Pacific Daylight Time, hehhop writes: >Marc, thanks for your reply. A number of modern "teachers" seem to emphasize the simplicity of the Self and how we are That even now and it takes no path or effort to reach that realization. I think it cannot be that easy. These teachers may be right that the Self is simplicity itself, the only reality, and that we are already That, and no effort need take place since there is "no person to make the effort". I theorize, am certain of nothing, that our "seeming" though unreal individual selves do have a very strong "relative reality" and that oneness with God is not so simple as repeating to oneself. "I am not real, there is no "person" who is unenlightend, and no goal to be attained since right in this "Now" I am already one with God..... that is, the "I" which does not really exist causes the illusion of separatness and all that goes with it, including suffering (illusory suffering, of course) since it happens to no one)is simply a result of wrong thinking on the part of the nonexistent individual. If there is no "individual" then how is it that the erroneous concepts of a non person can lead to this seeming self and cloud over the only reality, the Self? Our existence as seeming individual selves may be in some sense illusory, but if so it is a very, very powerful and persistent illusion. It could well be that we do possess, or are, "souls" or something like sould, and that the One Being has somehow willed the soul to have a mega strong sense that it is an "individual" and no amount of "I am Thating" will bring enlightenment,or, according to these teachers show us (the nonexistent us) that there has been nothing but enlightenment all along. I wish it were that simple. I think though that the wishful thinking that it is all that simple is just that.. wishful thinking. I have one experience which wven allows me to believe that there is a Self, let me call "It" God. I have only one reason to think that what my friends at Saiva Siddhanta Church in Kauii, Hawaii, teach and what their now passed away Master Subramuniya taught is real, is truth. That reason is my memory of an LSD "trip" I went on in 1969. Although the memory of it is a far cry from how I felt while actually on it, the memory of it does fit well with the teachings of Advaita Vedanta. Now I have no other "strong proof" that any of this is true.... that there is enlightenment. The memory of the LSD trip fits in with what is taught by Advaitans, and it serves to cause me to think the teachings of Subramunya and other Advaitans are probably true. It does not make me sure they are true, but it serves to keep me open and to think that this advaita is truth. I still have a pretty serious doubt level in me, though. Ron Hi Ron To me, you're very much justified in doubting that repeating words and concepts can bring about Realization. Concepts are not particularly useful at all, and practices in general are of questionable value. There may be a misconception about the statements of simplicity and effortlessness. It's sometimes said that there is nothing that needs to be learned. The reason this is so is not because we already know what needs to be known, but because Truth does not consist of knowledge at all, and so there is nothing to be 'known about' it. This is the simplicity of the matter, which does not refer to the simplicity of the Realization, which may require much effort in removing the complexity of existing concepts. The idea that it is effortless is true because Realizing what is so does not require effort. However, much effort is presently being expended in focussing on and maintaining the illusion of a separate self, and this effort must be abandoned before the obvious Truth, which is already present, can be noticed. Generally, much effort and dedication is required in order to reveal the futility of this effort. Once the futility is realized, the effort ceases, and Truth is revealed. So, what is being pointed to is that Truth does not need to be learned, it is available in a state of effortlessness, and nothing is gained that is not already present. It is a loss only that must happen; the loss of attachments, cravings, denial, projection, judgment, and ultimately the loss of the imaginary 'me'. And so we can say that the path does not go anywhere, and there is nothing to become or do or accomplish, but this assumes that all effort can be abandoned in the hearing of this, which is rarely the case. Ultimately, the path does not exist and neither does the one walking it. The path does not end, the one walking it stops walking, and dissapears. "If there is no "individual" then how is it that the erroneous concepts of a non person can lead to this seeming self and cloud over the only reality, the Self?" It's a delusion formed within the Self. An analogy might be you, as the human, falling into the delusion that you are the tree in your back yard. You may revel in the glory of sprouting new leaves in spring, and suffer the loss of those leaves in the fall, but as real as it may seem, none of it is really happening to you. Phil Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 21, 2008 Report Share Posted April 21, 2008 Nisargadatta , " ronald henson " <hehhop wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " ronald henson " <hehhop@> > > wrote: > > > > > > I wonder sometimes that even though it is true that " I am That " , > > > whether it is as easy a remembering " I am that " and repeating it > to > > > oneself frequently.I was first familiar in my " search " with a > group > > of > > > Hindu Saivites. I never became a monk or gave myself fully over > to > > this > > > group, or to any group ever, but I did admire and like this > group, > > > particularly their spiritual head, Sivaya Subramuniyaswami. > > Subramuniya > > > was said to be, and I believe it true, a realizer of what is > called > > > Nirvikalpa Samadhi, a very high form of samadhi, a completely > > formless > > > void. But he teaches that the world and the individual are > > relatively > > > real and that the illusion of separateness does somehow create > and > > > individual " soul " , for want of a better word, which reincarnates > > and > > > takes many lifetimes to reach the certain realization of it's > > oneness > > > with God, and the illusory nature of it's seeming individuality. > > Anyone > > > else out there think that the illusion of separateness may be the > > > divine play of God and that it takes a lot more than just > repeating > > it > > > to oneself and believing that we are " That " ? That karma may have > > > relative reality, that we have a relatively real soul, and that > > even > > > if " All is One " , the seeming separation is a play of God and is > not > > so > > > easily dispensed with as a simple illusion that one can " think > > away " ? > > > > > > > > yes....it's not such easy.....agree with your words > > > > many so called " spiritual " people react kind of allergic when it > come > > to make some (more) effort....in order to get closer to oneSelf.... > > > > often they choose very smart....nice talking " gurus " .....so, > teachers > > who take the effort in running all over the world.....telling > people > > that they are " that " ....that It take no effort....that's endlessly > > simple......that nobody need any guru or teachers....etc.... > > > > maybe this work for simple minded people.....following the words of > > such simple minded gurus & teachers.... > > > > reflecting ignorance ....perfectly in each..... > > > > and are having a lovely time.....each time they meet each through > the > > words written in more or less famous nice book..... > > > > or during a nice conference and meeting.....having & getting a lovely > > smile..... > > > > ....celebrating nicely there dependencies to each..... > > > > like ever... > > > > Ignorance Is about Ignorance..... > > > > and nothing else > > > > ... > > > > Marc > > > > Hi Ron, > > > > >Marc, thanks for your reply. A number of modern " teachers " seem to > emphasize the simplicity of the Self and how we are That even now and > it takes no path or effort to reach that realization. I think it > cannot be that easy. These teachers may be right that the Self is > simplicity itself, the only reality, and that we are already That, > and no effort need take place since there is " no person to make the > effort " . I theorize, am certain of nothing, that our " seeming " though > unreal individual selves do have a very strong " relative reality " and > that oneness with God is not so simple as repeating to oneself. " I am > not real, there is no " person " who is unenlightend, and no goal to be > attained since right in this " Now " I am already one with God..... > that is, the " I " which does not really exist causes the illusion of > separatness and all that goes with it, including suffering (illusory > suffering, of course) since it happens to no one)is simply a result > of wrong thinking on the part of the nonexistent individual. > If there is no " individual " then how is it that the erroneous > concepts of a non person can lead to this seeming self and cloud over > the only reality, the Self? already since birth.....one get an " identification " , a world in which one is born......a whole world (of/by individual identification) get birth...... no chance to explain a baby child oneness of being.....a baby child maybe already percieve such oneness......in a way, many adult persons can no more......for some personal reasons. no effort is necessary for a baby child......and also, no effort is necessary for somebody still aware of oneness.....or for somebody who, after some bad & good experiences, again, percieve oneness. oneness of being.....means, to feel one with the percieved......no differences between inside & outside..... also some responsibility is growing....specially in times of missing balance between inside/outside....or so called inner/outer conflicts (you = world = you = world......) many get lost....within a big big world.....because, instead to remind oneness,.....they are building up an ego-mind....means, an individuality which, in reality, create constantly problems & conflicts..... instead to remain in balance....a state of strong missing balance is build up....... some get even proud to reach....sometimes, again....some balance......in feeling deep happiness for some duration of time...... as for example when they buy a new car....a nice house......the day of marriage......the visit to guru.......by reading a nice (spiritual) book.......some alcohol, drugs.....some relationships.....etc.... at this moments of little happiness/peace....they remind their real Self.....oneness, god... .....and so, are telling that there is no Self...no oneness....god....etc...... indeed, where there is Self.......there is infinite emptyness, peace.....no words could describe.... and no words are necessary to describe.....to whom??!!.... So, there is " individual being " existing.....means, living within an individual world & being.......without knowing about. Instead of awareness....knowledge cause darkness. Knowledge is always limited. It is of limited mind concepts. Limited by time & space. And so limited on a fiction of ego-mind & world. Some break such knowledge by love....and so, indeed.....love is often described as being the key to It.....to awareness and simple being. > Our existence as seeming individual selves may be in some sense > illusory, but if so it is a very, very powerful and persistent > illusion. It could well be that we do possess, or are, " souls " or > something like sould, and that the One Being has somehow willed the > soul to have a mega strong sense that it is an " individual " and no > amount of " I am Thating " will bring enlightenment,or, according to > these teachers show us (the nonexistent us) that there has been > nothing but enlightenment all along. > I wish it were that simple. I think though that the wishful > thinking that it is all that simple is just that.. wishful thinking. > I have one experience which wven allows me to believe that there > is a Self, let me call " It " God. I have only one reason to think that > what my friends at Saiva Siddhanta Church in Kauii, Hawaii, teach and > what their now passed away Master Subramuniya taught is real, is > truth. That reason is my memory of an LSD " trip " I went on in 1969. > Although the memory of it is a far cry from how I felt while actually > on it, the memory of it does fit well with the teachings of Advaita > Vedanta. Now I have no other " strong proof " that any of this is > true.... that there is enlightenment. The memory of the LSD trip fits > in with what is taught by Advaitans, and it serves to cause me to > think the teachings of Subramunya and other Advaitans are probably > true. It does not make me sure they are true, but it serves to keep > me open and to think that this advaita is truth. I still have a > pretty serious doubt level in me, though. Ron you made so some experiences in the past....which " opened you the eyes " .....maybe you are missing such " past " ...... such past....on which you came in touch with the Self...... the Self is here & now......like ever, since ever, forever!.... don't worry about past experiences....and/or gurus and advaita ....effort or non effort..... just try to be yourSelf......and be free...... Marc > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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