If You're Happy And You Know It.....Clap Your Hand

April 21, 2008

In a message dated 4/21/2008 10:53:35 AM Pacific Daylight Time, lastrain writes:

Other than those fleeting moments when a few of your more pressing desires are satiated........have you ever been happy?..........I mean really happy?Have you ever known a happy person?If you ever come across a "happy person"....if they are willing...sit down with them for a really honest chat.You will find that they are also racked with unfulfilled desires.....fear of the future and regrets concerning the past.They have merely learned better coping skills.The illusion of self evolved because it helps the physical organism survive.It is programmed to be perpetually unhappy.If it were possible for it to be fulfilled the physical organism would atrophy..........and hey.......we don't want that.......do we?toombaru

Welp, I see some of that differently. Coping skills are nice, but no coping skills can actually tip the dualistic balance of happy/unhappy. Often what happens is that these folks had a miserable early life and they're now experiencing the other end of the duality stick. Sometimes the happiness is just a facade, and sometimes they've accomplished what I call duality clipping in which the high highs and the low lows are cut off and there's a certain stability and degree of equanimity, but there is still a balance. The only truly happy folks are the ones through whom the Awakening event has occurred and there is no longer attachment to the dualistic experience. This nondual Joy may start to be experienced before the Awakening event occurs.

The individual is not really programmed to be perpetually unhappy, which nobody is, nor is it programmed to alternate between happy and unhappy, which everyone does. Again, the reason that happens is that happy and unhappy are conceptual illusions formed in the mind, each defining the other, and so both must be present in order to experience either.

Phil

Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos.

April 21, 2008

Other than those fleeting moments when a few of your more pressing desires are

satiated........have you ever been happy?..........I mean really happy?

Have you ever known a happy person?

If you ever come across a " happy person " ....if they are willing...sit down with

them for a

really honest chat.

You will find that they are also racked with unfulfilled desires.....fear of the

future and

regrets concerning the past.

They have merely learned better coping skills.

The illusion of self evolved because it helps the physical organism survive.

It is programmed to be perpetually unhappy.

If it were possible for it to be fulfilled the physical organism would

atrophy..........and

hey.......we don't want that.......do we?

toombaru

April 21, 2008

-

souldreamone

Nisargadatta

Monday, April 21, 2008 4:04 PM

Re: If You're Happy And You Know It.....Clap Your Hand

In a message dated 4/21/2008 10:53:35 AM Pacific Daylight Time, lastrain (AT) charter (DOT) net writes:

Other than those fleeting moments when a few of your more pressing desires are satiated........have you ever been happy?..........I mean really happy?Have you ever known a happy person?If you ever come across a "happy person"....if they are willing...sit down with them for a really honest chat.You will find that they are also racked with unfulfilled desires.....fear of the future and regrets concerning the past.They have merely learned better coping skills.The illusion of self evolved because it helps the physical organism survive.It is programmed to be perpetually unhappy.If it were possible for it to be fulfilled the physical organism would atrophy..........and hey.......we don't want that.......do we?toombaru

Welp, I see some of that differently. Coping skills are nice, but no coping skills can actually tip the dualistic balance of happy/unhappy. Often what happens is that these folks had a miserable early life and they're now experiencing the other end of the duality stick. Sometimes the happiness is just a facade, and sometimes they've accomplished what I call duality clipping in which the high highs and the low lows are cut off and there's a certain stability and degree of equanimity, but there is still a balance. The only truly happy folks are the ones through whom the Awakening event has occurred and there is no longer attachment to the dualistic experience. This nondual Joy may start to be experienced before the Awakening event occurs.

The individual is not really programmed to be perpetually unhappy, which nobody is, nor is it programmed to alternate between happy and unhappy, which everyone does. Again, the reason that happens is that happy and unhappy are conceptual illusions formed in the mind, each defining the other, and so both must be present in order to experience either.

Phil

Perhaps it would do well to speak of life beyond the fleeting breaths between happiness and unhappiness.

We seem to think there is some kind of bridge, some guru, some sacred text that will remove us from these wild pendulum swings.

Well in a sense there is, and a greater sense there isn't.

Unless we are balance itself, we'll always be that swinging... that we are alive to do so, should make us *happy*; more often it is just another bad day as opposed to a *good* day.

The experience beyond is a culmination of hard work and grace...to be in ecstatic being... just because... and to be able to return to that point, (which is never stasis, apropos) is the epitome of human existence and experience, afaik *right now*.

Pax,

~a

Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos.

Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.2/1389 - Release 4/21/2008 8:34 AM

April 22, 2008

Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain

wrote:

>

> Other than those fleeting moments when a few of your more pressing

desires are

> satiated........have you ever been happy?..........I mean really

happy?

>

> Have you ever known a happy person?

>

> If you ever come across a " happy person " ....if they are

willing...sit down with them for a

> really honest chat.

>

> You will find that they are also racked with unfulfilled

desires.....fear of the future and

> regrets concerning the past.

>

> They have merely learned better coping skills.

>

> The illusion of self evolved because it helps the physical

organism survive.

>

> It is programmed to be perpetually unhappy.

>

> If it were possible for it to be fulfilled the physical organism

would atrophy..........and

> hey.......we don't want that.......do we?

>

> toombaru

>

Don't worry...

April 22, 2008

Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain

wrote:

>

> Other than those fleeting moments when a few of your more pressing

desires are

> satiated........have you ever been happy?..........I mean really

happy?

>

> Have you ever known a happy person?

>

> If you ever come across a " happy person " ....if they are

willing...sit down with them for a

> really honest chat.

>

> You will find that they are also racked with unfulfilled

desires.....fear of the future and

> regrets concerning the past.

>

> They have merely learned better coping skills.

>

> The illusion of self evolved because it helps the physical organism

survive.

>

> It is programmed to be perpetually unhappy.

>

> If it were possible for it to be fulfilled the physical organism

would atrophy..........and

> hey.......we don't want that.......do we?

>

> toombaru

are you " racked with unfulfilled desires.....fear of the future and

regrets concerning the past. " ....?

Marc

>

April 22, 2008

Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33

wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Other than those fleeting moments when a few of your more pressing

> desires are

> > satiated........have you ever been happy?..........I mean really

> happy?

> >

> > Have you ever known a happy person?

> >

> > If you ever come across a " happy person " ....if they are

> willing...sit down with them for a

> > really honest chat.

> >

> > You will find that they are also racked with unfulfilled

> desires.....fear of the future and

> > regrets concerning the past.

> >

> > They have merely learned better coping skills.

> >

> > The illusion of self evolved because it helps the physical organism

> survive.

> >

> > It is programmed to be perpetually unhappy.

> >

> > If it were possible for it to be fulfilled the physical organism

> would atrophy..........and

> > hey.......we don't want that.......do we?

> >

> > toombaru

>

> are you " racked with unfulfilled desires.....fear of the future and

> regrets concerning the past. " ....?

>

> Marc

>

> >

>

Yes.............and so are you.

That is what the self is.

toombaru

April 22, 2008

Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain

wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 "

<dennis_travis33@> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > Other than those fleeting moments when a few of your more

pressing

> > desires are

> > > satiated........have you ever been happy?..........I mean

really

> > happy?

> > >

> > > Have you ever known a happy person?

> > >

> > > If you ever come across a " happy person " ....if they are

> > willing...sit down with them for a

> > > really honest chat.

> > >

> > > You will find that they are also racked with unfulfilled

> > desires.....fear of the future and

> > > regrets concerning the past.

> > >

> > > They have merely learned better coping skills.

> > >

> > > The illusion of self evolved because it helps the physical

organism

> > survive.

> > >

> > > It is programmed to be perpetually unhappy.

> > >

> > > If it were possible for it to be fulfilled the physical

organism

> > would atrophy..........and

> > > hey.......we don't want that.......do we?

> > >

> > > toombaru

> >

> > are you " racked with unfulfilled desires.....fear of the future

and

> > regrets concerning the past. " ....?

> >

> > Marc

> >

> > >

> >

>

> Yes.............and so are you.

>

> That is what the self is.

>

> toombaru

why should such " self " care about past & future....?....when there is

peace....here & now.....?

Marc

>

April 22, 2008

Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33

wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 "

> <dennis_travis33@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@>

> > > wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Other than those fleeting moments when a few of your more

> pressing

> > > desires are

> > > > satiated........have you ever been happy?..........I mean

> really

> > > happy?

> > > >

> > > > Have you ever known a happy person?

> > > >

> > > > If you ever come across a " happy person " ....if they are

> > > willing...sit down with them for a

> > > > really honest chat.

> > > >

> > > > You will find that they are also racked with unfulfilled

> > > desires.....fear of the future and

> > > > regrets concerning the past.

> > > >

> > > > They have merely learned better coping skills.

> > > >

> > > > The illusion of self evolved because it helps the physical

> organism

> > > survive.

> > > >

> > > > It is programmed to be perpetually unhappy.

> > > >

> > > > If it were possible for it to be fulfilled the physical

> organism

> > > would atrophy..........and

> > > > hey.......we don't want that.......do we?

> > > >

> > > > toombaru

> > >

> > > are you " racked with unfulfilled desires.....fear of the future

> and

> > > regrets concerning the past. " ....?

> > >

> > > Marc

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> > Yes.............and so are you.

> >

> > That is what the self is.

> >

> > toombaru

>

> why should such " self " care about past & future....?....when there is

> peace....here & now.....?

>

> Marc

> >

>

" Peace " is a paint job that mind uses to assuage its fear of the opposing

opposite.

There is no " peace " in nature.....

.....and there is no such thing as here and now.......

......and nothing to be in it if there were.

toombaru

April 22, 2008

Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain

wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 "

<dennis_travis33@> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 "

> > <dennis_travis33@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 "

<lastrain@>

> > > > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Other than those fleeting moments when a few of your more

> > pressing

> > > > desires are

> > > > > satiated........have you ever been happy?..........I mean

> > really

> > > > happy?

> > > > >

> > > > > Have you ever known a happy person?

> > > > >

> > > > > If you ever come across a " happy person " ....if they are

> > > > willing...sit down with them for a

> > > > > really honest chat.

> > > > >

> > > > > You will find that they are also racked with unfulfilled

> > > > desires.....fear of the future and

> > > > > regrets concerning the past.

> > > > >

> > > > > They have merely learned better coping skills.

> > > > >

> > > > > The illusion of self evolved because it helps the physical

> > organism

> > > > survive.

> > > > >

> > > > > It is programmed to be perpetually unhappy.

> > > > >

> > > > > If it were possible for it to be fulfilled the physical

> > organism

> > > > would atrophy..........and

> > > > > hey.......we don't want that.......do we?

> > > > >

> > > > > toombaru

> > > >

> > > > are you " racked with unfulfilled desires.....fear of the

future

> > and

> > > > regrets concerning the past. " ....?

> > > >

> > > > Marc

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > Yes.............and so are you.

> > >

> > > That is what the self is.

> > >

> > > toombaru

> >

> > why should such " self " care about past & future....?....when there

is

> > peace....here & now.....?

> >

> > Marc

> > >

> >

>

> " Peace " is a paint job that mind uses to assuage its fear of the

opposing opposite.

>

> There is no " peace " in nature.....

>

> ....and there is no such thing as here and now.......

>

> .....and nothing to be in it if there were.

>

> toombaru

>

> toombaru

.....yes, yes....sure.....

there is nothing at all.....lol

except this your little thinking mind....busy.....

Marc

April 22, 2008

Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33

wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 "

> <dennis_travis33@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@>

> > > wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 "

> > > <dennis_travis33@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 "

> <lastrain@>

> > > > > wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Other than those fleeting moments when a few of your more

> > > pressing

> > > > > desires are

> > > > > > satiated........have you ever been happy?..........I mean

> > > really

> > > > > happy?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Have you ever known a happy person?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > If you ever come across a " happy person " ....if they are

> > > > > willing...sit down with them for a

> > > > > > really honest chat.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You will find that they are also racked with unfulfilled

> > > > > desires.....fear of the future and

> > > > > > regrets concerning the past.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > They have merely learned better coping skills.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The illusion of self evolved because it helps the physical

> > > organism

> > > > > survive.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > It is programmed to be perpetually unhappy.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > If it were possible for it to be fulfilled the physical

> > > organism

> > > > > would atrophy..........and

> > > > > > hey.......we don't want that.......do we?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > toombaru

> > > > >

> > > > > are you " racked with unfulfilled desires.....fear of the

> future

> > > and

> > > > > regrets concerning the past. " ....?

> > > > >

> > > > > Marc

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Yes.............and so are you.

> > > >

> > > > That is what the self is.

> > > >

> > > > toombaru

> > >

> > > why should such " self " care about past & future....?....when there

> is

> > > peace....here & now.....?

> > >

> > > Marc

> > > >

> > >

> >

> > " Peace " is a paint job that mind uses to assuage its fear of the

> opposing opposite.

> >

> > There is no " peace " in nature.....

> >

> > ....and there is no such thing as here and now.......

> >

> > .....and nothing to be in it if there were.

> >

> > toombaru

> >

> > toombaru

>

> ....yes, yes....sure.....

>

> there is nothing at all.....lol

>

> except this your little thinking mind....busy.....

>

> Marc

>

You're getting warmer........................

toombaru

April 23, 2008

Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain

wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 "

<dennis_travis33@> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 "

> > <dennis_travis33@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 "

<lastrain@>

> > > > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 "

> > > > <dennis_travis33@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 "

> > <lastrain@>

> > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Other than those fleeting moments when a few of your

more

> > > > pressing

> > > > > > desires are

> > > > > > > satiated........have you ever been happy?..........I

mean

> > > > really

> > > > > > happy?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Have you ever known a happy person?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > If you ever come across a " happy person " ....if they are

> > > > > > willing...sit down with them for a

> > > > > > > really honest chat.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > You will find that they are also racked with

unfulfilled

> > > > > > desires.....fear of the future and

> > > > > > > regrets concerning the past.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > They have merely learned better coping skills.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > The illusion of self evolved because it helps the

physical

> > > > organism

> > > > > > survive.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > It is programmed to be perpetually unhappy.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > If it were possible for it to be fulfilled the physical

> > > > organism

> > > > > > would atrophy..........and

> > > > > > > hey.......we don't want that.......do we?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > toombaru

> > > > > >

> > > > > > are you " racked with unfulfilled desires.....fear of the

> > future

> > > > and

> > > > > > regrets concerning the past. " ....?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Marc

> > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Yes.............and so are you.

> > > > >

> > > > > That is what the self is.

> > > > >

> > > > > toombaru

> > > >

> > > > why should such " self " care about past & future....?....when

there

> > is

> > > > peace....here & now.....?

> > > >

> > > > Marc

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > " Peace " is a paint job that mind uses to assuage its fear of

the

> > opposing opposite.

> > >

> > > There is no " peace " in nature.....

> > >

> > > ....and there is no such thing as here and now.......

> > >

> > > .....and nothing to be in it if there were.

> > >

> > > toombaru

> > >

> > > toombaru

> >

> > ....yes, yes....sure.....

> >

> > there is nothing at all.....lol

> >

> > except this your little thinking mind....busy.....

> >

> > Marc

> >

>

> You're getting warmer........................

>

> toombaru

if there were no thinking minds...... " we " would be Here Now....

....and appearently talking to " each " .....

....even if there is only one voice existing.....one existence.....one

emptyness.....one peace.....one reality/truth.....

and many many shadows of It...

Marc

>

April 23, 2008

Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 "

<dennis_travis33 wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 "

> <dennis_travis33@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@>

> > > wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 "

> > > <dennis_travis33@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 "

> <lastrain@>

> > > > > wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 "

> > > > > <dennis_travis33@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 "

> > > <lastrain@>

> > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Other than those fleeting moments when a few of your

> more

> > > > > pressing

> > > > > > > desires are

> > > > > > > > satiated........have you ever been happy?..........I

> mean

> > > > > really

> > > > > > > happy?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Have you ever known a happy person?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > If you ever come across a " happy person " ....if they

are

> > > > > > > willing...sit down with them for a

> > > > > > > > really honest chat.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > You will find that they are also racked with

> unfulfilled

> > > > > > > desires.....fear of the future and

> > > > > > > > regrets concerning the past.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > They have merely learned better coping skills.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > The illusion of self evolved because it helps the

> physical

> > > > > organism

> > > > > > > survive.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > It is programmed to be perpetually unhappy.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > If it were possible for it to be fulfilled the

physical

> > > > > organism

> > > > > > > would atrophy..........and

> > > > > > > > hey.......we don't want that.......do we?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > toombaru

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > are you " racked with unfulfilled desires.....fear of

the

> > > future

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > regrets concerning the past. " ....?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Marc

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Yes.............and so are you.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > That is what the self is.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > toombaru

> > > > >

> > > > > why should such " self " care about past & future....?....when

> there

> > > is

> > > > > peace....here & now.....?

> > > > >

> > > > > Marc

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > " Peace " is a paint job that mind uses to assuage its fear of

> the

> > > opposing opposite.

> > > >

> > > > There is no " peace " in nature.....

> > > >

> > > > ....and there is no such thing as here and now.......

> > > >

> > > > .....and nothing to be in it if there were.

> > > >

> > > > toombaru

> > > >

> > > > toombaru

> > >

> > > ....yes, yes....sure.....

> > >

> > > there is nothing at all.....lol

> > >

> > > except this your little thinking mind....busy.....

> > >

> > > Marc

> > >

> >

> > You're getting warmer........................

> >

> > toombaru

>

> if there were no thinking minds...... " we " would be Here Now....

>

> ...and appearently talking to " each " .....

>

> ...even if there is only one voice existing.....one

existence.....one

> emptyness.....one peace.....one reality/truth.....

>

> and many many shadows of It...

>

> Marc

Ps: should be

" if there were no thinking minds...... " we " wouldn't be Here Now...... "

>

April 23, 2008

>

> if there were no thinking minds...... " we " wouldn't be Here Now....

>

> ...and appearently talking to " each " .....

>

> ...even if there is only one voice existing.....one existence.....one

> emptyness.....one peace.....one reality/truth.....

>

> and many many shadows of It...

>

> Marc

>

You speak of this " we " thing and the " here " and " now " things as if they actually

existed as

separate existential realities.

The one apparently observing is not separate from the flowingness and hence not

ever

privy to the gestalt in which it occurs.

The observer can observe only that which appears to be outside of itself......I

can not see

what's observing.

You are not anything that can be observed.

You are the mysterious observer.............and so am I....

.........and so is your uncle Bob.

toombaru

April 23, 2008

Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain

wrote:

>

> >

> > if there were no thinking minds...... " we " wouldn't be Here

Now....

> >

> > ...and appearently talking to " each " .....

> >

> > ...even if there is only one voice existing.....one

existence.....one

> > emptyness.....one peace.....one reality/truth.....

> >

> > and many many shadows of It...

> >

> > Marc

> >

>

> You speak of this " we " thing and the " here " and " now " things as if

they actually existed as

> separate existential realities.

>

> The one apparently observing is not separate from the flowingness

and hence not ever

> privy to the gestalt in which it occurs.

>

> The observer can observe only that which appears to be outside of

itself......I can not see

> what's observing.

>

> You are not anything that can be observed.

>

> You are the mysterious observer.............and so am I....

>

> ........and so is your uncle Bob.

>

> toombaru

Yes, I am not anything that can be observed

You aren't anything that can be observed

Uncle BOB isn't anything that can be observed

....

Marc

If You're Happy And You Know It.....Clap Your Hand

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