Guest guest Posted May 12, 2008 Report Share Posted May 12, 2008 Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6 wrote: > > This might shock you, or choke you, but > Self is memory. Without memory you wouldn't > know anything. Even to see a tree as a tree, > requires memory. Without memory the contents > of consciousness will be a jumble of colors and > shapes without meaning. So, to inquire about > the self is to inquiry into memory. How long does it > take to say: who am I? Suppose, you couldn't hold > a thought for more than seven seconds, there are > people who can't. You would forget the question > before an answer could come. Consciousness > without memory would have no meaning. If you > think you are, then, you are remembering a self. > > Pete > Thanks Pete, Alow me to add: Consciousness IS memory. The firing of memory neurons is what we call consciousness. To use the metaphor of a LED for a memory cell: When it is not emitting light it is called memory. When it is emitting light it is called consciousness. Werner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 12, 2008 Report Share Posted May 12, 2008 Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6 wrote: > > This might shock you, or choke you, but > Self is memory. Without memory you wouldn't > know anything. Even to see a tree as a tree, > requires memory. Without memory the contents > of consciousness will be a jumble of colors and > shapes without meaning. So, to inquire about > the self is to inquiry into memory. How long does it > take to say: who am I? Suppose, you couldn't hold > a thought for more than seven seconds, there are > people who can't. You would forget the question > before an answer could come. Consciousness > without memory would have no meaning. If you > think you are, then, you are remembering a self. > > Pete > So....This you thing that is thinking and remembering is separate from the process? toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 13, 2008 Report Share Posted May 13, 2008 In a message dated 12/05/2008 11:26:37 AM Pacific Daylight Time, lastrain writes: Nisargadatta , "cerosoul" <pedsie6 wrote:>> This might shock you, or choke you, but> Self is memory. Without memory you wouldn't> know anything. Even to see a tree as a tree,> requires memory. Without memory the contents> of consciousness will be a jumble of colors and> shapes without meaning. So, to inquire about> the self is to inquiry into memory. How long does it> take to say: who am I? Suppose, you couldn't hold> a thought for more than seven seconds, there are> people who can't. You would forget the question> before an answer could come. Consciousness> without memory would have no meaning. If you> think you are, then, you are remembering a self.> > Pete>So....This you thing that is thinking and remembering is separate from the process?toombaru The 'Thing' lives! The stars will all burn out. The ocean will tire of crashing to the shore. The Earth's spin will turn to a lazy wobble And the wind will fall to the ground and sleep, Before a thinker will surrender his God given right To be a thought. Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 13, 2008 Report Share Posted May 13, 2008 Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6 wrote: > > This might shock you, or choke you, but > Self is memory. Without memory you wouldn't > know anything. Even to see a tree as a tree, > requires memory. Without memory the contents > of consciousness will be a jumble of colors and > shapes without meaning. So, to inquire about > the self is to inquiry into memory. How long does it > take to say: who am I? Suppose, you couldn't hold > a thought for more than seven seconds, there are > people who can't. You would forget the question > before an answer could come. Consciousness > without memory would have no meaning. If you > think you are, then, you are remembering a self. > > Pete > In his Essay Concerning Human Understanding (1690, Book II, Chapter 27), John Locke famously identified the self with memory. Whereas Descartes had found the self in the immediate conscious experience of thinking ( " I think, therefore I am " ). -Both make interesting reading, bit dated tho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 13, 2008 Report Share Posted May 13, 2008 In a message dated 12/05/2008 5:24:57 PM Pacific Daylight Time, yohansky writes: Nisargadatta , "cerosoul" <pedsie6 wrote:>> This might shock you, or choke you, but> Self is memory. Without memory you wouldn't> know anything. Even to see a tree as a tree,> requires memory. Without memory the contents> of consciousness will be a jumble of colors and> shapes without meaning. So, to inquire about> the self is to inquiry into memory. How long does it> take to say: who am I? Suppose, you couldn't hold> a thought for more than seven seconds, there are> people who can't. You would forget the question> before an answer could come. Consciousness> without memory would have no meaning. If you> think you are, then, you are remembering a self.> > Pete>In his Essay Concerning Human Understanding (1690, Book II, Chapter 27), John Locke famously identified the self with memory. Whereas Descartes had found the self in the immediate conscious experience of thinking ("I think, therefore I am").-Both make interesting reading, bit dated tho. ***And both are referring to the imaginary thought-person rahter than Self, as is Pete, though he seems to be unaware of it. Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 13, 2008 Report Share Posted May 13, 2008 Pete, Pure consiousness has nothing to do with memory, it s to do with unattached awareness. JUST BE. As you rightly said there IS actually no meaning to anything. Regards Deepak Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6 wrote: > > This might shock you, or choke you, but > Self is memory. Without memory you wouldn't > know anything. Even to see a tree as a tree, > requires memory. Without memory the contents > of consciousness will be a jumble of colors and > shapes without meaning. So, to inquire about > the self is to inquiry into memory. How long does it > take to say: who am I? Suppose, you couldn't hold > a thought for more than seven seconds, there are > people who can't. You would forget the question > before an answer could come. Consciousness > without memory would have no meaning. If you > think you are, then, you are remembering a self. > > Pete > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 13, 2008 Report Share Posted May 13, 2008 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote: > > > > This might shock you, or choke you, but > > Self is memory. Without memory you wouldn't > > know anything. Even to see a tree as a tree, > > requires memory. Without memory the contents > > of consciousness will be a jumble of colors and > > shapes without meaning. So, to inquire about > > the self is to inquiry into memory. How long does it > > take to say: who am I? Suppose, you couldn't hold > > a thought for more than seven seconds, there are > > people who can't. You would forget the question > > before an answer could come. Consciousness > > without memory would have no meaning. If you > > think you are, then, you are remembering a self. > > > > Pete > > > > > So....This you thing that is thinking and remembering is separate from the process? > > > toombaru P: Any sense of identification is memory at work. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 13, 2008 Report Share Posted May 13, 2008 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote: > > > > This might shock you, or choke you, but > > Self is memory. Without memory you wouldn't > > know anything. Even to see a tree as a tree, > > requires memory. Without memory the contents > > of consciousness will be a jumble of colors and > > shapes without meaning. So, to inquire about > > the self is to inquiry into memory. How long does it > > take to say: who am I? Suppose, you couldn't hold > > a thought for more than seven seconds, there are > > people who can't. You would forget the question > > before an answer could come. Consciousness > > without memory would have no meaning. If you > > think you are, then, you are remembering a self. > > > > Pete > > > > > Thanks Pete, > > Alow me to add: Consciousness IS memory. > > The firing of memory neurons is what we call consciousness. To use > the metaphor of a LED for a memory cell: When it is not emitting > light it is called memory. When it is emitting light it is called > consciousness. > > Werner P: I have problems with seeing memory and consciousness as the same process. Is this your own theory, or you adopted it from someone? What science findings back this theory? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 13, 2008 Report Share Posted May 13, 2008 Pete, " This might shock you, or choke you, but Self is memory. " No, that is not Self. " Without memory you wouldn't know anything. Even to see a tree as a tree, requires memory. " So you have never seen anything in your whole life that you did not know what if was before you saw it? You had memory of what a dog was the first time you saw one? " Without memory the contents of consciousness will be a jumble of colors and shapes without meaning. So, to inquire about the self is to inquiry into memory. " No, it still looks the same...not a jumble...just no labels. To inquire about the Self is to realize what you know (memory) is not the Self. " Consciousness without memory would have no meaning. " And yet, that is what the Self is. Namaste, ~ Eric Putkonen http://www.awaken2life.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 13, 2008 Report Share Posted May 13, 2008 Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote: > > > > > > This might shock you, or choke you, but > > > Self is memory. Without memory you wouldn't > > > know anything. Even to see a tree as a tree, > > > requires memory. Without memory the contents > > > of consciousness will be a jumble of colors and > > > shapes without meaning. So, to inquire about > > > the self is to inquiry into memory. How long does it > > > take to say: who am I? Suppose, you couldn't hold > > > a thought for more than seven seconds, there are > > > people who can't. You would forget the question > > > before an answer could come. Consciousness > > > without memory would have no meaning. If you > > > think you are, then, you are remembering a self. > > > > > > Pete > > > > > > > > > Thanks Pete, > > > > Alow me to add: Consciousness IS memory. > > > > The firing of memory neurons is what we call consciousness. To use > > the metaphor of a LED for a memory cell: When it is not emitting > > light it is called memory. When it is emitting light it is called > > consciousness. > > > > Werner > > P: I have problems with seeing memory > and consciousness as the same process. > Is this your own theory, or you adopted it > from someone? What science findings back > this theory? > > > Pete, You cannot expect from me a detailed description what consciousness is and how its works, no matter how much I would love to. Til today even neuroscience has just some hypthesises about it. But in some way it is acceped that the sensory memory and the short term memory at the same time are memory and consciousness. And so I used that metaphor of a LED as a simile to make it more imaginable. If you are interested in that matter then google " sensory memory, working memory and short term memory " Werner .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 14, 2008 Report Share Posted May 14, 2008 Nisargadatta , " Eric Putkonen " <eputkonen wrote: > > Pete, > > " This might shock you, or choke you, but Self is memory. " > > No, that is not Self. > > " Without memory you wouldn't know anything. Even to see a tree as a > tree, requires memory. " > > So you have never seen anything in your whole life that you did not > know what if was before you saw it? You had memory of what a dog was > the first time you saw one? > > " Without memory the contents of consciousness will be a jumble of > colors and shapes without meaning. So, to inquire about the self is > to inquiry into memory. " > > No, it still looks the same...not a jumble...just no labels. > To inquire about the Self is to realize what you know (memory) is not > the Self. > > " Consciousness without memory would have no meaning. " > > And yet, that is what the Self is. > > Namaste, > > ~ Eric Putkonen > http://www.awaken2life.org agree with the words of Eric.... the " Self " and " memory " are as much related as for example an orange growing in south america and another one growing in spain....kind of Marc > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 14, 2008 Report Share Posted May 14, 2008 > > > > P: I have problems with seeing memory > > and consciousness as the same process. > > Is this your own theory, or you adopted it > > from someone? What science findings back > > this theory? > > > > > > > > Pete, > > You cannot expect from me a detailed description what consciousness > is and how its works, no matter how much I would love to. Til today > even neuroscience has just some hypthesises about it. > > But in some way it is acceped that the sensory memory and the short > term memory at the same time are memory and consciousness. P: I see what you mean. Thanks > > > > . > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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