Guest guest Posted May 18, 2008 Report Share Posted May 18, 2008 The mind does not suddenly decide to discover its own reality or lack of it. It is herded....like some dumb animal....by life itself out to the edge of the known. As it approaches the unknown it will attempt to scramble back to the familiar and most in this journey manage to keep what they imagine to be their life in tact. A few tumble off into the unnamed and in that crashing fall what had been their personal totality is shattered. In this process, there is no guarantee that life will be better in any way. There comes...or not.... a deep understanding that things exist only in the naming of them.....including the namer itself. Life continues as before but when joy or anxiety is felt.........they appear without a name......and are experienced without someone claiming them as their own. They just arise and subside in the flowing confluence of events. Their intensity is not diminished......but if anything....they are intensified in the clarity of their purpose. Life becomes ever fresh........child-like.......open.....and unknown. One finds itself walking through an ever emerging freshness..... and it is known......beyond doubt......that That is who one is. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2008 Report Share Posted May 19, 2008 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > > > > > The mind does not suddenly decide to discover its own reality or lack of it. > > It is herded....like some dumb animal....by life itself out to the edge of the known. > > As it approaches the unknown it will attempt to scramble back to the familiar and most in > this journey manage to keep what they imagine to be their life in tact. > > A few tumble off into the unnamed and in that crashing fall what had been their personal > totality is shattered. > > In this process, there is no guarantee that life will be better in any way. > > There comes...or not.... a deep understanding that things exist only in the naming of > them.....including the namer itself. > > Life continues as before but when joy or anxiety is felt.........they appear without a > name......and are experienced without someone claiming them as their own. > > They just arise and subside in the flowing confluence of events. > > Their intensity is not diminished......but if anything....they are intensified in the clarity of > their purpose. > > Life becomes ever fresh........child-like.......open.....and unknown. > > One finds itself walking through an ever emerging freshness..... and it is > known......beyond doubt......that That is who one is. > > > > > toombaru > And yes, here it is all for free again, another script for 'enlightenment in an instant'! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2008 Report Share Posted May 19, 2008 Nisargadatta , " Johan " <yohansky wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > The mind does not suddenly decide to discover its own reality or > lack of it. > > > > It is herded....like some dumb animal....by life itself out to the > edge of the known. > > > > As it approaches the unknown it will attempt to scramble back to > the familiar and most in > > this journey manage to keep what they imagine to be their life in > tact. > > > > A few tumble off into the unnamed and in that crashing fall what > had been their personal > > totality is shattered. > > > > In this process, there is no guarantee that life will be better in > any way. > > > > There comes...or not.... a deep understanding that things exist > only in the naming of > > them.....including the namer itself. > > > > Life continues as before but when joy or anxiety is > felt.........they appear without a > > name......and are experienced without someone claiming them as > their own. > > > > They just arise and subside in the flowing confluence of events. > > > > Their intensity is not diminished......but if anything....they are > intensified in the clarity of > > their purpose. > > > > Life becomes ever fresh........child-like.......open.....and > unknown. > > > > One finds itself walking through an ever emerging freshness..... > and it is > > known......beyond doubt......that That is who one is. > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > And yes, here it is all for free again, another script > for 'enlightenment in an instant'! > Johan, My posts seem to disturb you. Perhaps it would be best if you didn't read them. t. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2008 Report Share Posted May 19, 2008 Hi toombaru, What you penned (typed) below was (is) most beautiful, succinct, clear, and truthful! Sweet, sweet, sweet! So very very sweet indeed! Reminded me of so many things, one of which is the "Buddha's Smile". :-)) Michael San Diego, CA **************************************** The mind does not suddenly decide to discover its own reality or lack of it. It is herded....like some dumb animal....by life itself out to the edge of the known. As it approaches the unknown it will attempt to scramble back to the familiar and most in this journey manage to keep what they imagine to be their life in tact. A few tumble off into the unnamed and in that crashing fall what had been their personal totality is shattered. In this process, there is no guarantee that life will be better in any way. There comes...or not.... a deep understanding that things exist only in the naming of them.....including the namer itself. Life continues as before but when joy or anxiety is felt.........they appear without a name......and are experienced without someone claiming them as their own. They just arise and subside in the flowing confluence of events. Their intensity is not diminished......but if anything....they are intensified in the clarity of their purpose. Life becomes ever fresh........child-like.......open.....and unknown. One finds itself walking through an ever emerging freshness..... and it is known......beyond doubt......that That is who one is. toombaru Keep yourself and your loved ones healthy and wealthy! #1 Health Supplement Out Of 2,000 In All Of North America! http://oregonstate.edu/~Chickj/trailer.htm http://xobm.usana.com/hfpres/index.cfm?distid=14631 Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.23.21/1454 - Release 5/19/2008 7:44 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2008 Report Share Posted May 19, 2008 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Johan " <yohansky@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The mind does not suddenly decide to discover its own reality or > > lack of it. > > > > > > It is herded....like some dumb animal....by life itself out to the > > edge of the known. > > > > > > As it approaches the unknown it will attempt to scramble back to > > the familiar and most in > > > this journey manage to keep what they imagine to be their life in > > tact. > > > > > > A few tumble off into the unnamed and in that crashing fall what > > had been their personal > > > totality is shattered. > > > > > > In this process, there is no guarantee that life will be better in > > any way. > > > > > > There comes...or not.... a deep understanding that things exist > > only in the naming of > > > them.....including the namer itself. > > > > > > Life continues as before but when joy or anxiety is > > felt.........they appear without a > > > name......and are experienced without someone claiming them as > > their own. > > > > > > They just arise and subside in the flowing confluence of events. > > > > > > Their intensity is not diminished......but if anything....they are > > intensified in the clarity of > > > their purpose. > > > > > > Life becomes ever fresh........child-like.......open.....and > > unknown. > > > > > > One finds itself walking through an ever emerging freshness..... > > and it is > > > known......beyond doubt......that That is who one is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > And yes, here it is all for free again, another script > > for 'enlightenment in an instant'! > > > > > Johan, > > > My posts seem to disturb you. > > > Perhaps it would be best if you didn't read them. > > > > > t. P: On the contrary, he should hang on your every word. That they disturb his ideas is GOOD! > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2008 Report Share Posted May 19, 2008 Nisargadatta , " Adamson " <adamson wrote: > > > Hi toombaru, > > What you penned (typed) below was (is) most beautiful, succinct, clear, and truthful! Sweet, sweet, sweet! So very very sweet indeed! Reminded me of so many things, one of which is the " Buddha's Smile " . :-)) > > Michael > San Diego, CA P: Yeah! He's not the old broken record guy, no more. He's rapping. He has moves! He's dancing loose. We can call him Papa T Toom. ) > > **************************************** > > The mind does not suddenly decide to discover its own reality or lack of it. > > It is herded....like some dumb animal....by life itself out to the edge of the known. > > As it approaches the unknown it will attempt to scramble back to the familiar and most in this journey manage to keep what they imagine to be their life in tact. > > A few tumble off into the unnamed and in that crashing fall what had been their personal totality is shattered. > > In this process, there is no guarantee that life will be better in any way. > > There comes...or not.... a deep understanding that things exist only in the naming of them.....including the namer itself. > > Life continues as before but when joy or anxiety is felt.........they appear without a name......and are experienced without someone claiming them as their own. > > They just arise and subside in the flowing confluence of events. > > Their intensity is not diminished......but if anything....they are intensified in the clarity of their purpose. > > Life becomes ever fresh........child-like.......open.....and unknown. > > One finds itself walking through an ever emerging freshness..... and it is known......beyond doubt......that That is who one is. > > toombaru > > Keep yourself and your loved ones healthy and wealthy! > #1 Health Supplement Out Of 2,000 In All Of North America! > http://oregonstate.edu/~Chickj/trailer.htm > http://xobm.usana.com/hfpres/index.cfm?distid=14631 > > Checked by AVG. > Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.23.21/1454 - Release 5/19/2008 7:44 AM > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2008 Report Share Posted May 19, 2008 Nisargadatta , " Adamson " <adamson wrote: > > > Hi toombaru, > > What you penned (typed) below was (is) most beautiful, succinct, clear, and truthful! Sweet, sweet, sweet! So very very sweet indeed! Reminded me of so many things, one of which is the " Buddha's Smile " . :-)) > > Michael > San Diego, CA > Hello Michael Only one who has tasted the emptiness would resonate with what was said. Isn't it beautiful in San Diego today? toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2008 Report Share Posted May 20, 2008 Hi, Beautiful, !! mirage inside a mirage!! Regards and Wishes Deepak Soni Cell: +91 9818136667 IM:deepaksoni1965 Nisargadatta [Nisargadatta ] On Behalf Of Adamson Monday, May 19, 2008 11:08 PM Nisargadatta Re:The Breakdown of The Bicameral Mind Hi toombaru, What you penned (typed) below was (is) most beautiful, succinct, clear, and truthful! Sweet, sweet, sweet! So very very sweet indeed! Reminded me of so many things, one of which is the " Buddha's Smile " . :-)) Michael San Diego, CA **************************************** The mind does not suddenly decide to discover its own reality or lack of it. It is herded....like some dumb animal....by life itself out to the edge of the known. As it approaches the unknown it will attempt to scramble back to the familiar and most in this journey manage to keep what they imagine to be their life in tact. A few tumble off into the unnamed and in that crashing fall what had been their personal totality is shattered. In this process, there is no guarantee that life will be better in any way. There comes...or not.... a deep understanding that things exist only in the naming of them.....including the namer itself. Life continues as before but when joy or anxiety is felt.........they appear without a name......and are experienced without someone claiming them as their own. They just arise and subside in the flowing confluence of events. Their intensity is not diminished......but if anything....they are intensified in the clarity of their purpose. Life becomes ever fresh........child-like.......open.....and unknown. One finds itself walking through an ever emerging freshness..... and it is known......beyond doubt......that That is who one is. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2008 Report Share Posted May 20, 2008 > > Johan, > > > My posts seem to disturb you. > > > Perhaps it would be best if you didn't read them. > > > > > t. > Are you saying that your posts may be questionable, or better sill, a bit stupid? Anyway, they don't disturb me, they remind me of not making a proselytizer of myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2008 Report Share Posted May 20, 2008 Nisargadatta , " Johan " <yohansky wrote: > > > > > > Johan, > > > > > > My posts seem to disturb you. > > > > > > Perhaps it would be best if you didn't read them. > > > > > > > > > > t. > > > > Are you saying that your posts may be questionable, or better sill, > a bit stupid? > > Anyway, they don't disturb me, they remind me of not making a > proselytizer of myself. hey hey.....toombaru is much cooler than you think he is..... how would be the messages without the toombaru words......?... except of boring.....peace, peace, peace....love, love, love......and peace and love.....and even more love....more more love.....highest love....love love....peace........ etc... Marc > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2008 Report Share Posted May 20, 2008 Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Johan " <yohansky@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Johan, > > > > > > > > > My posts seem to disturb you. > > > > > > > > > Perhaps it would be best if you didn't read them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > t. > > > > > > > Are you saying that your posts may be questionable, or better sill, > > a bit stupid? > > > > Anyway, they don't disturb me, they remind me of not making a > > proselytizer of myself. > > > hey hey.....toombaru is much cooler than you think he is..... > > how would be the messages without the toombaru words......?... > > except of boring.....peace, peace, peace....love, love, love......and > peace and love.....and even more love....more more love.....highest > love....love love....peace........* > > etc... > > Marc Ps: *except on mondays..... on mondays, the world is still little strange.....i mean, more strange than on other days....for some fools in here..... lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2008 Report Share Posted May 20, 2008 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Adamson " <adamson@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi toombaru, > > > > What you penned (typed) below was (is) most beautiful, succinct, clear, and truthful! > Sweet, sweet, sweet! So very very sweet indeed! Reminded me of so many things, one of > which is the " Buddha's Smile " . :-)) > > > > Michael > > San Diego, CA > Hello Michael > > > Only one who has tasted the emptiness would resonate with what was said. Sorry ToomToll, who is resonating after tasting emptiness, don't we learn in the teachings of non-duality that there is no emptiness, silly Puppie, its just another lolly and carrot for the ego to feed on, which you dramatically cherrish. > > Isn't it beautiful in San Diego today? San Diego must be full of emptiness...of course. > > > toombaru > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2008 Report Share Posted May 20, 2008 Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Johan " <yohansky@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Johan, > > > > > > > > > My posts seem to disturb you. > > > > > > > > > Perhaps it would be best if you didn't read them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > t. > > > > > > > Are you saying that your posts may be questionable, or better sill, > > a bit stupid? > > > > Anyway, they don't disturb me, they remind me of not making a > > proselytizer of myself. > > > hey hey.....toombaru is much cooler than you think he is..... > > how would be the messages without the toombaru words......?... > > except of boring.....peace, peace, peace....love, love, love......and > peace and love.....and even more love....more more love.....highest > love....love love....peace........ > > etc... > > Marc > > > You're not wrong, he's very cool, its time he huggs a tree or big animal before it's too late. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2008 Report Share Posted May 20, 2008 Nisargadatta , " Johan " <yohansky wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Johan " <yohansky@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Johan, > > > > > > > > > > > > My posts seem to disturb you. > > > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps it would be best if you didn't read them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > t. > > > > > > > > > > Are you saying that your posts may be questionable, or better > sill, > > > a bit stupid? > > > > > > Anyway, they don't disturb me, they remind me of not making a > > > proselytizer of myself. > > > > > > hey hey.....toombaru is much cooler than you think he is..... > > > > how would be the messages without the toombaru words......?... > > > > except of boring.....peace, peace, peace....love, love, > love......and > > peace and love.....and even more love....more more > love.....highest > > love....love love....peace........ > > > > etc... > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > You're not wrong, he's very cool, its time he huggs a tree or big > animal before it's too late. lol yes.....he could have some nice travels.....discovering the/his/our world........ some fresh air in the Himalayas.....or in the South Pacific..... etc... there is nothing real about the world.....but nothing wrong too...... lot of things to discover... it's never too late... Marc > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2008 Report Share Posted May 20, 2008 Hi toombaru, Yes, it is a beautiful day here! Also, San Diego is as beautiful as one perceives it to be. :-)) Me often thinks that "man" (i.e., humankind) was never actually kicked out of the Garden Of Eden at all. He/we simply ceased for whatever (or no-ever) reason being able to recognize Eden as being Eden. Once we began seeing it as un-edenesque we started to relate to and interact with it as "Paradise Lost". Consequently, and sure enough, things started living up to our way of perceiving and treating "what is". Our "meddling" (with the intent to "make things better" (i.e., force "what is the way it is" to conform to a conceptual ideal) creates the very disturbance we suffer from. Life, it seems to me, is a humongous direct (and most accurate) feedback machine. One thing I've learned is that yelling at an echo won't make it go away...no matter how pissed off and loudly I yell. :-)) J. Krishnamurti said in one of his books that apparently the French have a saying which is, "The better is the enemy of the good'". Michael ******************************************************** < Hello Michael< Only one who has tasted the emptiness would resonate with what was said.< Isn't it beautiful in San Diego today?< toombaru Keep yourself and your loved ones healthy and wealthy! #1 Health Supplement Out Of 2,000 In All Of North America! http://oregonstate.edu/~Chickj/trailer.htm http://xobm.usana.com/hfpres/index.cfm?distid=14631 Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.23.21/1455 - Release 5/19/2008 5:04 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2008 Report Share Posted May 20, 2008 Nisargadatta , " Adamson " <adamson wrote: > > Hi toombaru, > > Yes, it is a beautiful day here! Also, San Diego is as beautiful as one perceives it to be. :-)) > > Me often thinks that " man " (i.e., humankind) was never actually kicked out of the Garden Of Eden at all. He/we simply ceased for whatever (or no-ever) reason being able to recognize Eden as being Eden. Once we began seeing it as un-edenesque we started to relate to and interact with it as " Paradise Lost " . Consequently, and sure enough, things started living up to our way of perceiving and treating " what is " . Our " meddling " (with the intent to " make things better " (i.e., force " what is the way it is " to conform to a conceptual ideal) creates the very disturbance we suffer from. Life, it seems to me, is a humongous direct (and most accurate) feedback machine. One thing I've learned is that yelling at an echo won't make it go away...no matter how pissed off and loudly I yell. :-)) Yes. Conceptual mind paints over the Naturalness and the result is the celluloid cartoon land that some have called " the dream " . And all the time.......the naturalness flows....unimpeded. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2008 Report Share Posted May 20, 2008 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Adamson " <adamson@> wrote: > > > > Hi toombaru, > > > > Yes, it is a beautiful day here! Also, San Diego is as beautiful as one perceives it to > be. :-)) > > > > Me often thinks that " man " (i.e., humankind) was never actually kicked out of the > Garden Of Eden at all. He/we simply ceased for whatever (or no- ever) reason being able to > recognize Eden as being Eden. Once we began seeing it as un- edenesque we started to > relate to and interact with it as " Paradise Lost " . Consequently, and sure enough, things > started living up to our way of perceiving and treating " what is " . Our " meddling " (with the > intent to " make things better " (i.e., force " what is the way it is " to conform to a conceptual > ideal) creates the very disturbance we suffer from. Life, it seems to me, is a humongous > direct (and most accurate) feedback machine. One thing I've learned is that yelling at an > echo won't make it go away...no matter how pissed off and loudly I yell. :-)) > > > > Yes. > > > Conceptual mind paints over the Naturalness and the result is the celluloid cartoon land > that some have called " the dream " . > > > And all the time.......the naturalness flows....unimpeded. > > Hm, Toomb, Isn't the ability to create concepts part of human " nature " ? Maybe you meant watching the sky, the clouds, nature, breathing fresh air etc, isn't that rich when being caught in consepts ? When planning a voyage, building a house or repairing a car etc, you need adequate concepts. They have their place - don't stuff them in the devil's ass ... Werner > > > toombaru > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2008 Report Share Posted May 20, 2008 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Adamson " <adamson@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi toombaru, > > > > > > Yes, it is a beautiful day here! Also, San Diego is as > beautiful as one perceives it to > > be. :-)) > > > > > > Me often thinks that " man " (i.e., humankind) was never > actually kicked out of the > > Garden Of Eden at all. He/we simply ceased for whatever (or no- > ever) reason being able to > > recognize Eden as being Eden. Once we began seeing it as un- > edenesque we started to > > relate to and interact with it as " Paradise Lost " . Consequently, > and sure enough, things > > started living up to our way of perceiving and treating " what is " . > Our " meddling " (with the > > intent to " make things better " (i.e., force " what is the way it is " > to conform to a conceptual > > ideal) creates the very disturbance we suffer from. Life, it seems > to me, is a humongous > > direct (and most accurate) feedback machine. One thing I've learned > is that yelling at an > > echo won't make it go away...no matter how pissed off and loudly I > yell. :-)) > > > > > > > > Yes. > > > > > > Conceptual mind paints over the Naturalness and the result is the > celluloid cartoon land > > that some have called " the dream " . > > > > > > And all the time.......the naturalness flows....unimpeded. > > > > > > > Hm, Toomb, > > Isn't the ability to create concepts part of human " nature " ? > > Maybe you meant watching the sky, the clouds, nature, breathing fresh > air etc, isn't that rich when being caught in consepts ? > > When planning a voyage, building a house or repairing a car etc, you > need adequate concepts. They have their place - don't stuff them in > the devil's ass ... > > Werner > > > > > > LOL I am not diminishing the dream. In a strange way....for the conceptual mind and its conceptual child.......It is all there is. It is a vastness of infinite potential...but it is limited to the perceptual capacities of its imaginary center When identification solidifies into a personal perspective it becomes an imaginary closed loop centered on personal survival. And all the while..........the Naturalness flows.....unimpeded and totally available. t, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2008 Report Share Posted May 20, 2008 J. Krishnamurti said in one of his books that apparently the French have a saying which is, "The better is the enemy of the good'". Michael ***And the bad is the foundation on which both must rest. In a message dated 20/05/2008 9:02:02 AM Pacific Daylight Time, adamson writes: Hi toombaru, Yes, it is a beautiful day here! Also, San Diego is as beautiful as one perceives it to be. :-)) Me often thinks that "man" (i.e., humankind) was never actually kicked out of the Garden Of Eden at all. He/we simply ceased for whatever (or no-ever) reason being able to recognize Eden as being Eden. Once we began seeing it as un-edenesque we started to relate to and interact with it as "Paradise Lost". Consequently, and sure enough, things started living up to our way of perceiving and treating "what is". Our "meddling" (with the intent to "make things better" (i.e., force "what is the way it is" to conform to a conceptual ideal) creates the very disturbance we suffer from. Life, it seems to me, is a humongous direct (and most accurate) feedback machine. One thing I've learned is that yelling at an echo won't make it go away...no matter how pissed off and loudly I yell. :-)) J. Krishnamurti said in one of his books that apparently the French have a saying which is, "The better is the enemy of the good'". Michael ******************************************************** < Hello Michael< Only one who has tasted the emptiness would resonate with what was said.< Isn't it beautiful in San Diego today?< toombaru Keep yourself and your loved ones healthy and wealthy!#1 Health Supplement Out Of 2,000 In All Of North America!http://oregonstate.edu/~Chickj/trailer.htmhttp://xobm.usana.com/hfpres/index.cfm?distid=14631No virus found in this outgoing message.Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269 Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2008 Report Share Posted May 20, 2008 In a message dated 20/05/2008 9:40:14 AM Pacific Daylight Time, wwoehr writes: > > Yes.> > > Conceptual mind paints over the Naturalness and the result is the celluloid cartoon land > that some have called "the dream".> > > And all the time.......the naturalness flows....unimpeded.> >Hm, Toomb,Isn't the ability to create concepts part of human "nature" ?Maybe you meant watching the sky, the clouds, nature, breathing fresh air etc, isn't that rich when being caught in consepts ?When planning a voyage, building a house or repairing a car etc, you need adequate concepts. They have their place - don't stuff them in the devil's ass ...Werner ****In the course of evolution, the creature must inevitably reach a point at which it develops the ability to question, and ultimately physically and mentally challenge its role as a part of nature. If it's true that nature is entirely integrated in it's functioning, then to remove oneself from that role in an attempt to dominate and control one's experience, removes us from the natural support that nature lends all of it's parts within that integrated functioning, and so there is conflict and suffering experienced where there is none from the perspective of an animal that has no such ability to challenge its role and project it's fate. However, this stage is necessary if the vector of evolution is toward the transcendence of animal consciousness, and so nothing has gone wrong. It's much more like 'growing pains'. Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2008 Report Share Posted May 21, 2008 In a message dated 20/05/2008 9:59:34 PM Pacific Daylight Time, wwoehr writes: > ****In the course of evolution, the creature must inevitably reach a point > at which it develops the ability to question, and ultimately physically and > mentally challenge its role as a part of nature. If it's true that nature is > entirely integrated in it's functioning, then to remove oneself from that role > in an attempt to dominate and control one's experience, removes us from the > natural support that nature lends all of it's parts within that integrated > functioning, and so there is conflict and suffering experienced where there is > none from the perspective of an animal that has no such ability to challenge > its role and project it's fate. > > However, this stage is necessary if the vector of evolution is toward the > transcendence of animal consciousness, and so nothing has gone wrong. It's much > more like 'growing pains'.> > Nicely written, Phil,But at the end of your post I wondered how do you know that evolution does transcend animal consciousness.First of all consciousness is not a thing which can be transcended. Not to speak of "animal consciousness". Do you think there is a master plan in creation and evolution ?Let me tell you again that consciousness IS its conent - no content no consciousness.It is not consciousness which distinguish man from animal, it is its contents. And also your contents are totally different from mine. Thats why consciousness is absolutely subjective.Is there an evolution from stones and rocks towards bacteria, then to worms, mice, cats and dogs, monkeys and finally man sitting in a car of in front of a computer ?Why at all do you feel the need to differentiate, to comnpare, to categorize life in order to see that there is evolution.Can't you see what utter nonsense that idea of evolution is ?There is no evolution, neither from lower to higher nor any "evolution of consciousness".Are you a New-Ageian ?Werner ****I didn't know evolution was a new age concept. I thought scientists came up with that one. I actually used the context of evolution because of all the rational scientific minds here. The fact that consciousness is not a thing and that it is it's content, is irrelevant to whether or not it can be transcended. In fact, transcending objects is a rather tricky deal. Whether or not there is a master plan is also irrelevant as to whether evolution or transcendence happens. (No, there is no plan or planner) I never suggested that consciousness distinguishes man from the animals..........Okay, nevermind. Clearly your intention is only to dismiss and not to discuss.Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2008 Report Share Posted May 21, 2008 Nisargadatta , souldreamone wrote: > > > In a message dated 20/05/2008 9:40:14 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > wwoehr writes: > > > > > Yes. > > > > > > Conceptual mind paints over the Naturalness and the result is the > celluloid cartoon land > > > that some have called " the dream " . > > > > > > And all the time.......the naturalness flows....unimpeded. > > > > > > > Hm, Toomb, > > Isn't the ability to create concepts part of human " nature " ? > > Maybe you meant watching the sky, the clouds, nature, breathing fresh > air etc, isn't that rich when being caught in consepts ? > > When planning a voyage, building a house or repairing a car etc, you > need adequate concepts. They have their place - don't stuff them in > the devil's ass ... > > Werner > > > > ****In the course of evolution, the creature must inevitably reach a point > at which it develops the ability to question, and ultimately physically and > mentally challenge its role as a part of nature. If it's true that nature is > entirely integrated in it's functioning, then to remove oneself from that role > in an attempt to dominate and control one's experience, removes us from the > natural support that nature lends all of it's parts within that integrated > functioning, and so there is conflict and suffering experienced where there is > none from the perspective of an animal that has no such ability to challenge > its role and project it's fate. > > However, this stage is necessary if the vector of evolution is toward the > transcendence of animal consciousness, and so nothing has gone wrong. It's much > more like 'growing pains'. > > Nicely written, Phil, But at the end of your post I wondered how do you know that evolution does transcend animal consciousness. First of all consciousness is not a thing which can be transcended. Not to speak of " animal consciousness " . Do you think there is a master plan in creation and evolution ? Let me tell you again that consciousness IS its conent - no content no consciousness. It is not consciousness which distinguish man from animal, it is its contents. And also your contents are totally different from mine. Thats why consciousness is absolutely subjective. Is there an evolution from stones and rocks towards bacteria, then to worms, mice, cats and dogs, monkeys and finally man sitting in a car of in front of a computer ? Why at all do you feel the need to differentiate, to comnpare, to categorize life in order to see that there is evolution. Can't you see what utter nonsense that idea of evolution is ? There is no evolution, neither from lower to higher nor any " evolution of consciousness " . Are you a New-Ageian ? Werner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2008 Report Share Posted May 21, 2008 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Nisargadatta , souldreamone@ wrote: > > > > > > In a message dated 20/05/2008 9:40:14 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > > wwoehr@ writes: > > > > > > > > Yes. > > > > > > > > > Conceptual mind paints over the Naturalness and the result is > the > > celluloid cartoon land > > > > > that some have called " the dream " . > > > > > > > > > And all the time.......the naturalness flows....unimpeded. > > > > > > > > > > > > Hm, Toomb, > > > > Isn't the ability to create concepts part of human " nature " ? > > > > Maybe you meant watching the sky, the clouds, nature, breathing > fresh > > air etc, isn't that rich when being caught in consepts ? > > > > When planning a voyage, building a house or repairing a car etc, > you > > need adequate concepts. They have their place - don't stuff them > in > > the devil's ass ... > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > ****In the course of evolution, the creature must inevitably reach > a point > > at which it develops the ability to question, and ultimately > physically and > > mentally challenge its role as a part of nature. If it's true that > nature is > > entirely integrated in it's functioning, then to remove oneself > from that role > > in an attempt to dominate and control one's experience, removes us > from the > > natural support that nature lends all of it's parts within that > integrated > > functioning, and so there is conflict and suffering experienced > where there is > > none from the perspective of an animal that has no such ability to > challenge > > its role and project it's fate. > > > > However, this stage is necessary if the vector of evolution is > toward the > > transcendence of animal consciousness, and so nothing has gone > wrong. It's much > > more like 'growing pains'. > > > > > > > Nicely written, Phil, > > But at the end of your post I wondered how do you know that evolution > does transcend animal consciousness. > > First of all consciousness is not a thing which can be transcended. > Not to speak of " animal consciousness " . Do you think there is a > master plan in creation and evolution ? > > Let me tell you again that consciousness IS its conent - no content > no consciousness. > > It is not consciousness which distinguish man from animal, it is its > contents. And also your contents are totally different from mine. > Thats why consciousness is absolutely subjective. > > Is there an evolution from stones and rocks towards bacteria, then to > worms, mice, cats and dogs, monkeys and finally man sitting in a car > of in front of a computer ? > > Why at all do you feel the need to differentiate, to comnpare, to > categorize life in order to see that there is evolution. > > Can't you see what utter nonsense that idea of evolution is ? > > There is no evolution, neither from lower to higher nor > any " evolution of consciousness " . > > Are you a New-Ageian ? > > Werner > Evolution only says that physical organisms change over time through natural selection and random genetic mutations and that they gradually evolve to adapt to the ever changing environment. The only people who deny the vast amount of supportive evidence for evolution are the religious fundamentalists. Any logical argument against evolution simply cannot be supported. t. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2008 Report Share Posted May 21, 2008 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , souldreamone@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 20/05/2008 9:40:14 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > > > wwoehr@ writes: > > > > > > > > > > > Yes. > > > > > > > > > > > > Conceptual mind paints over the Naturalness and the result is > > the > > > celluloid cartoon land > > > > > > > that some have called " the dream " . > > > > > > > > > > > > And all the time.......the naturalness flows....unimpeded. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hm, Toomb, > > > > > > Isn't the ability to create concepts part of human " nature " ? > > > > > > Maybe you meant watching the sky, the clouds, nature, breathing > > fresh > > > air etc, isn't that rich when being caught in consepts ? > > > > > > When planning a voyage, building a house or repairing a car etc, > > you > > > need adequate concepts. They have their place - don't stuff them > > in > > > the devil's ass ... > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > ****In the course of evolution, the creature must inevitably reach > > a point > > > at which it develops the ability to question, and ultimately > > physically and > > > mentally challenge its role as a part of nature. If it's true that > > nature is > > > entirely integrated in it's functioning, then to remove oneself > > from that role > > > in an attempt to dominate and control one's experience, removes us > > from the > > > natural support that nature lends all of it's parts within that > > integrated > > > functioning, and so there is conflict and suffering experienced > > where there is > > > none from the perspective of an animal that has no such ability to > > challenge > > > its role and project it's fate. > > > > > > However, this stage is necessary if the vector of evolution is > > toward the > > > transcendence of animal consciousness, and so nothing has gone > > wrong. It's much > > > more like 'growing pains'. > > > > > > > > > > > > Nicely written, Phil, > > > > But at the end of your post I wondered how do you know that evolution > > does transcend animal consciousness. > > > > First of all consciousness is not a thing which can be transcended. > > Not to speak of " animal consciousness " . Do you think there is a > > master plan in creation and evolution ? > > > > Let me tell you again that consciousness IS its conent - no content > > no consciousness. > > > > It is not consciousness which distinguish man from animal, it is its > > contents. And also your contents are totally different from mine. > > Thats why consciousness is absolutely subjective. > > > > Is there an evolution from stones and rocks towards bacteria, then to > > worms, mice, cats and dogs, monkeys and finally man sitting in a car > > of in front of a computer ? > > > > Why at all do you feel the need to differentiate, to comnpare, to > > categorize life in order to see that there is evolution. > > > > Can't you see what utter nonsense that idea of evolution is ? > > > > There is no evolution, neither from lower to higher nor > > any " evolution of consciousness " . > > > > Are you a New-Ageian ? > > > > Werner > > > > > Evolution only says that physical organisms change over time through natural selection > and random genetic mutations and that they gradually evolve to adapt to the ever > changing environment. > > The only people who deny the vast amount of supportive evidence for evolution are the > religious fundamentalists. > > Any logical argument against evolution simply cannot be supported. > > > > t. > After years of intensive study, he had become the self-proclaimed world's authority on the behavior and texture of shadows. .......and......although he had advertised extensively, offering his services for free......no one had, as yet, availed themselves of his generosity! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2008 Report Share Posted May 21, 2008 Only man can create concepts into which he categorizes his experience; at once shaping and is shaped by them... Discreet sound-bytes of information are garnered through a *selective listening* process and assimilated into a texture of being. The interesting thing is that in order to be consciously aware of *stone* consciousness must have been *stone*... or at least been engraved in it... ~Anna p.s. Enjoyed your stream of thought Phil.. Nisargadatta , souldreamone wrote: > > > In a message dated 20/05/2008 9:59:34 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > wwoehr writes: > > > ****In the course of evolution, the creature must inevitably reach > a point > > at which it develops the ability to question, and ultimately > physically and > > mentally challenge its role as a part of nature. If it's true that > nature is > > entirely integrated in it's functioning, then to remove oneself > from that role > > in an attempt to dominate and control one's experience, removes us > from the > > natural support that nature lends all of it's parts within that > integrated > > functioning, and so there is conflict and suffering experienced > where there is > > none from the perspective of an animal that has no such ability to > challenge > > its role and project it's fate. > > > > However, this stage is necessary if the vector of evolution is > toward the > > transcendence of animal consciousness, and so nothing has gone > wrong. It's much > > more like 'growing pains'. > > > > > > > Nicely written, Phil, > > But at the end of your post I wondered how do you know that evolution > does transcend animal consciousness. > > First of all consciousness is not a thing which can be transcended. > Not to speak of " animal consciousness " . Do you think there is a > master plan in creation and evolution ? > > Let me tell you again that consciousness IS its conent - no content > no consciousness. > > It is not consciousness which distinguish man from animal, it is its > contents. And also your contents are totally different from mine. > Thats why consciousness is absolutely subjective. > > Is there an evolution from stones and rocks towards bacteria, then to > worms, mice, cats and dogs, monkeys and finally man sitting in a car > of in front of a computer ? > > Why at all do you feel the need to differentiate, to comnpare, to > categorize life in order to see that there is evolution. > > Can't you see what utter nonsense that idea of evolution is ? > > There is no evolution, neither from lower to higher nor > any " evolution of consciousness " . > > Are you a New-Ageian ? > > Werner > > > > ****I didn't know evolution was a new age concept. I thought scientists came > up with that one. I actually used the context of evolution because of all > the rational scientific minds here. > The fact that consciousness is not a thing and that it is it's content, is > irrelevant to whether or not it can be transcended. In fact, transcending > objects is a rather tricky deal. Whether or not there is a master plan is also > irrelevant as to whether evolution or transcendence happens. (No, there is no > plan or planner) > > I never suggested that consciousness distinguishes man from the > animals..........Okay, nevermind. Clearly your intention is only to dismiss and not to > discuss. > > > > **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family > favorites at AOL Food. > (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.