Guest guest Posted May 22, 2008 Report Share Posted May 22, 2008 The self iis not a thing. It is a mechanical process. Someselfs are wired to see that. Most are not. For those few wired to see that, life is a torment until the Ultimate Understanding comes. As the UU percolates down through the dream, the self remains... Without it......experience is impossible. But it is no linger personalized..... and at its center....there is nothing. Things loose there conceptual edges but remain as reference points. And the self spends its allotted time flowing along with the flowing. And it knows that that is as close as it will ever get to God. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2008 Report Share Posted May 22, 2008 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: The self iis not a thing. > It is a mechanical process., Yes, indeed, Toomb, > Someselfs are wired to see that. > Most are not. The self doesn't see anything - it is just the reations of memory. > > For those few wired to see that, > life is a torment until the Ultimate > Understanding > comes. Oops, " ultinate understanding " - can you tell more about it ? > > As the UU percolates > down through the dream, the self remains... > UU, what's that ? > Without it......experience is impossible. > > But it is no linger personalized..... > and at its center....there is nothing. > > Things loose there conceptual edges > but remain as reference points. > From things one just can know what the senses allow to. For example if your fingertips are numb then all things have lost their tactility. If you are deaf things no longer produce sound, etc ... > And the self spends its allotted time flowing > along with the flowing. What ? > > And it knows that that is as close as it will > ever get to God. > > Thanks God ... Werner > > > > toombaru > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2008 Report Share Posted May 22, 2008 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: The self iis not a thing. > It is a mechanical process., Yes, indeed, Toomb, > Someselfs are wired to see that. > Most are not. The self doesn't see anything - it is just the reations of memory. > > For those few wired to see that, > life is a torment until the Ultimate > Understanding > comes. Oops, " ultimate understanding " - can you tell more about it ? > > As the UU percolates > down through the dream, the self remains... > UU, what's that ? > Without it......experience is impossible. > > But it is no linger personalized..... > and at its center....there is nothing. > > Things loose there conceptual edges > but remain as reference points. > From things one just can know what the senses allow to. For example if your fingertips are numb then all things have lost their tactility. If you are deaf things no longer produce sound, etc ... > And the self spends its allotted time flowing > along with the flowing. What ? > > And it knows that that is as close as it will > ever get to God. > > Thanks God ... Werner > > > > toombaru > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2008 Report Share Posted May 23, 2008 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The self iis not a thing. > > It is a mechanical process., > > > Yes, indeed, Toomb, > > > > Someselfs are wired to see that. > > Most are not. > > > The self doesn't see anything - it is just the reations of memory. > > Yes.......but it thinks it thinks And that is where the rub lies. > > > > For those few wired to see that, > > life is a torment until the Ultimate > > Understanding > > comes. > > > Oops, " ultinate understanding " - can you tell more about it ? > > When self gets a glimpse of its own ultimate emptiness. > > > > As the UU percolates > > down through the dream, the self remains... > > > > > UU, what's that ? The Ultimate Understanding. Also known as You You. > > > > Without it......experience is impossible. > > > > But it is no linger personalized..... > > and at its center....there is nothing. > > > > Things loose there conceptual edges > > but remain as reference points. > > > > > From things one just can know what the senses allow to. For example > if your fingertips are numb then all things have lost their > tactility. If you are deaf things no longer produce sound, etc ... That's all good and well for things material. The real confusion begins when the self confuses the imaginary with the substantial. > > > > And the self spends its allotted time flowing > > along with the flowing. > > > What ? One either feels this.....or they don't. > > > > > > And it knows that that is as close as it will > > ever get to God. > > > > > > > Thanks God ... > > Werner > > > > :-) t. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2008 Report Share Posted May 23, 2008 In a message dated 22/05/2008 2:13:12 PM Pacific Daylight Time, wwoehr writes: > For those few wired to see that,> life is a torment until the Ultimate> Understanding> comes.Oops, "ultinate understanding" - can you tell more about it ?> > As the UU percolates> down through the dream, the self remains...>UU, what's that ? ****Hehe. Yer fun! :)Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2008 Report Share Posted May 23, 2008 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: The self iis not a thing. > It is a mechanical process. > Someselfs are wired to see that. > Most are not. > > For those few wired to see that, > life is a torment until the Ultimate > Understanding > comes. > > As the UU percolates > down through the dream, the self remains... > > Without it......experience is impossible. > > But it is no linger personalized..... > and at its center....there is nothing. > > Things loose there conceptual edges > but remain as reference points. > > And the self spends its allotted time flowing > along with the flowing. > > And it knows that that is as close as it will > ever get to God. > > > > > > toombaru > The drama queen in top form as usual, repeating herself, saying the same thing over and over again. What are you trying to prove? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2008 Report Share Posted May 23, 2008 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The self iis not a thing. > > > It is a mechanical process., > > > > > > Yes, indeed, Toomb, > > > > > > > Someselfs are wired to see that. > > > Most are not. > > > > > > The self doesn't see anything - it is just the reations of memory. > > > > > > > > Yes.......but it thinks it thinks > > And that is where the rub lies. > > > > > > > > > > > For those few wired to see that, > > > life is a torment until the Ultimate > > > Understanding > > > comes. > > > > > > Oops, " ultinate understanding " - can you tell more about it ? > > > > > > > > When self gets a glimpse of its own ultimate emptiness. > > > > > > As the UU percolates > > > down through the dream, the self remains... > > > > > > > > > UU, what's that ? > > > > The Ultimate Understanding. > > Also known as You You. > > > > > > Without it......experience is impossible. > > > > > > But it is no linger personalized..... > > > and at its center....there is nothing. > > > > > > Things loose there conceptual edges > > > but remain as reference points. > > > > > > > > > From things one just can know what the senses allow to. For example > > if your fingertips are numb then all things have lost their > > tactility. If you are deaf things no longer produce sound, etc ... > > > > That's all good and well for things material. > > The real confusion begins when the self confuses the imaginary with the substantial. > > > > > > > > > > And the self spends its allotted time flowing > > > along with the flowing. > > > > > > What ? > > > One either feels this.....or they don't. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And it knows that that is as close as it will > > > ever get to God. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks God ... > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > :-) > > > > > > t. > I sometimes wonder what feelings are left in that bag of yours... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2008 Report Share Posted May 23, 2008 Nisargadatta , " Johan " <yohansky wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The self iis not a thing. > > > > It is a mechanical process., > > > > > > > > > Yes, indeed, Toomb, > > > > > > > > > > Someselfs are wired to see that. > > > > Most are not. > > > > > > > > > The self doesn't see anything - it is just the reations of > memory. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes.......but it thinks it thinks > > > > And that is where the rub lies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For those few wired to see that, > > > > life is a torment until the Ultimate > > > > Understanding > > > > comes. > > > > > > > > > Oops, " ultinate understanding " - can you tell more about it ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When self gets a glimpse of its own ultimate emptiness. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As the UU percolates > > > > down through the dream, the self remains... > > > > > > > > > > > > > UU, what's that ? > > > > > > > > The Ultimate Understanding. > > > > Also known as You You. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Without it......experience is impossible. > > > > > > > > But it is no linger personalized..... > > > > and at its center....there is nothing. > > > > > > > > Things loose there conceptual edges > > > > but remain as reference points. > > > > > > > > > > > > > From things one just can know what the senses allow to. For > example > > > if your fingertips are numb then all things have lost their > > > tactility. If you are deaf things no longer produce sound, > etc ... > > > > > > > > That's all good and well for things material. > > > > The real confusion begins when the self confuses the imaginary > with the substantial. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And the self spends its allotted time flowing > > > > along with the flowing. > > > > > > > > > What ? > > > > > > One either feels this.....or they don't. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And it knows that that is as close as it will > > > > ever get to God. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks God ... > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > t. > > > > I sometimes wonder what feelings are left in that bag of yours... > Johan, You spend far too much time obsessing about what you imagine this toombaru thing is. He is totally unconcerned with your opinions about him or his words......and wonders why you allowed him to slip inside your head.......and also wondering what you can do to get him out. :-0 toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2008 Report Share Posted May 23, 2008 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Johan " <yohansky@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The self iis not a thing. > > > > > It is a mechanical process., > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, indeed, Toomb, > > > > > > > > > > > > > Someselfs are wired to see that. > > > > > Most are not. > > > > > > > > > > > > The self doesn't see anything - it is just the reations of > > memory. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes.......but it thinks it thinks > > > > > > And that is where the rub lies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For those few wired to see that, > > > > > life is a torment until the Ultimate > > > > > Understanding > > > > > comes. > > > > > > > > > > > > Oops, " ultinate understanding " - can you tell more about it ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When self gets a glimpse of its own ultimate emptiness. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As the UU percolates > > > > > down through the dream, the self remains... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > UU, what's that ? > > > > > > > > > > > > The Ultimate Understanding. > > > > > > Also known as You You. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Without it......experience is impossible. > > > > > > > > > > But it is no linger personalized..... > > > > > and at its center....there is nothing. > > > > > > > > > > Things loose there conceptual edges > > > > > but remain as reference points. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From things one just can know what the senses allow to. For > > example > > > > if your fingertips are numb then all things have lost their > > > > tactility. If you are deaf things no longer produce sound, > > etc ... > > > > > > > > > > > > That's all good and well for things material. > > > > > > The real confusion begins when the self confuses the imaginary > > with the substantial. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And the self spends its allotted time flowing > > > > > along with the flowing. > > > > > > > > > > > > What ? > > > > > > > > > One either feels this.....or they don't. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And it knows that that is as close as it will > > > > > ever get to God. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks God ... > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > t. > > > > > > > I sometimes wonder what feelings are left in that bag of yours... > > > > > > Johan, > > You spend far too much time obsessing about what you imagine this toombaru thing is. I'm sure you can tell me who this wanabee-guru-puppie called ToomToll is. > > > He is totally unconcerned with your opinions about him or his words......and wonders why Is that really so? > you allowed him to slip inside your head.......and also wondering what you can do to get > him out. I'm fine thank you and having a ball with proselytizers like you, but I think there's too much of an obsession with 'your-grand-self' that's obstructing you for having a normal down to earth existence. > > > :-0 > > > > > > toombaru > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2008 Report Share Posted May 23, 2008 > Johan: > I'm fine thank you and having a ball with proselytizers like you, > but I think there's too much of an obsession with 'your-grand-self' > that's obstructing you for having a normal down to earth existence. > > > Do you seek a normal down to earth existence? t. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2008 Report Share Posted May 23, 2008 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > > > Johan: > > I'm fine thank you and having a ball with proselytizers like you, > > but I think there's too much of an obsession with 'your-grand- self' > > that's obstructing you for having a normal down to earth existence. > > > > > > > > > Do you seek a normal down to earth existence? > > > > > t. > I don't seek, I Am...thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2008 Report Share Posted May 23, 2008 Nisargadatta , " Johan " <yohansky wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > wrote: > > > > > > > Johan: > > > I'm fine thank you and having a ball with proselytizers like > you, > > > but I think there's too much of an obsession with 'your-grand- > self' > > > that's obstructing you for having a normal down to earth > existence. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you seek a normal down to earth existence? > > > > > > > > > > t. > > > > > I don't seek, I Am...thank you. > I am not saying that normal down to earth existence is a bad thing. That's what most humans want.....or at least that is what they are programmed to want. There occurs certain aberrations in which a few of the so called individuals are compelled to turn inward in what ostensibly appears to be a journey of self discovery. Ultimately this will lead to their self destruction. Both alternatives have advantages and disadvantages. And each of the wind up at the same place. Funny huh? toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2008 Report Share Posted May 23, 2008 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Johan " <yohansky@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Johan: > > > > I'm fine thank you and having a ball with proselytizers like > > you, > > > > but I think there's too much of an obsession with 'your- grand- > > self' > > > > that's obstructing you for having a normal down to earth > > existence. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you seek a normal down to earth existence? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > t. > > > > > > > > > I don't seek, I Am...thank you. > > > > > > I am not saying that normal down to earth existence is a bad thing. > Then what are you saying? > That's what most humans want.....or at least that is what they are programmed to want. " Whatever you think or do at any moment is precisely what God want you to think or do. " -Balkesar > > There occurs certain aberrations in which a few of the so called individuals are compelled > to turn inward in what ostensibly appears to be a journey of self discovery. Like, The Buddha, Jesus, Ramana and the like did? > > Ultimately this will lead to their self destruction. You are quoting from those greats. > > Both alternatives have advantages and disadvantages. Both are tight knitted, very tight...and those who don't see that, may encounter some slack progress on their journey*...ToomToll. *.Not necessarily bad tho. > > And each of the wind up at the same place. Been there 'scripted' that, haven't you? > > > > > > Funny huh? I don't think so...AT ALL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2008 Report Share Posted May 23, 2008 In a message dated 5/22/2008 10:40:06 PM Pacific Daylight Time, lastrain writes: Within manifestation...sentience is an extremely rare and precious gift.Within sentience.......awareness of self is the rarest and most exotic.It offers the broadest spectrum of experience ever available to any life form.When sentience becomes aware of its self within a conceptual context a sort of phantom emerges....and in that identifying circularity a desire to protect that which never existed becomes a preoccupation.The sense of a separate self evolved because it helps the organism survive and reproduce......but it does have a down side. ****The sense of a separate self is not, by itself, any sort of problem. (All 'Awakened' beings retain this sense of self) The squirrels and birds have this sense of being separate, and this is indeed necessary for survival, but there is no suffering in these creatures because they are devoid of an additional egoic overlay that has developed in humans, not as an advantage to survival, but as an additional challenge that points to the next evolutionary step. This self awareness is the ability to project one's fate into the future and contemplate such. It is the root of all human suffering and does not aid in survival at all, but is a neccesary capability in order to transcend the individual animal nature. There is an alternative way to perceive reality in which the sense of self is no longer the center of one's world.But it does not lend itself to conceptualization simply because it is in the naming of things that it emerges and sustains its pseudo reatity. Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2008 Report Share Posted May 23, 2008 Nisargadatta , " Johan " <yohansky wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Johan " <yohansky@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Johan: > > > > > I'm fine thank you and having a ball with proselytizers like > > > you, > > > > > but I think there's too much of an obsession with 'your- > grand- > > > self' > > > > > that's obstructing you for having a normal down to earth > > > existence. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you seek a normal down to earth existence? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > t. > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't seek, I Am...thank you. > > > > > > > > > > > I am not saying that normal down to earth existence is a bad thing. > > > > Then what are you saying? Within manifestation...sentience is an extremely rare and precious gift. Within sentience.......awareness of self is the rarest and most exotic. It offers the broadest spectrum of experience ever available to any life form. When sentience becomes aware of its self within a conceptual context a sort of phantom emerges....and in that identifying circularity a desire to protect that which never existed becomes a preoccupation. The sense of a separate self evolved because it helps the organism survive and reproduce......but it does have a down side. There is an alternative way to perceive reality in which the sense of self is no longer the center of one's world. But it does not lend itself to conceptualization simply because it is in the naming of things that it emerges and sustains its pseudo reatity. > > > That's what most humans want.....or at least that is what they are > programmed to want. > > " Whatever you think or do > at any moment > is precisely > what God want you to think or do. " > -Balkesar > Yes. I do not believe in God. I believe that Ramesh was speaking of the fact that everything is the result of everything.......and that there is no individual decider. > > > > There occurs certain aberrations in which a few of the so called > individuals are compelled > > to turn inward in what ostensibly appears to be a journey of self > discovery. > > Like, The Buddha, Jesus, Ramana and the like did? Yes. And as you are right now. > > > > > Ultimately this will lead to their self destruction. > > You are quoting from those greats. Of course......as they quoted from those who preceded them. Nisargadatta did not come up with " blood washing blood " or " child of a barren woman " . All of what Christ said can be found in earlier texts. Ramana referred to many ancient works....as did Sankara. There is nothing new in any of their works. > > > > > Both alternatives have advantages and disadvantages. > > Both are tight knitted, very tight...and those who don't see that, > may encounter some slack progress on their journey*...ToomToll. Perception is indeed tightly knit. The secondary conceptual overlay has eons of consensus support and does not collapse easily. For the most part.....you are on you own in this most bizarre journey. If you come across one or two friends to travel with you.....you are truly fortunate. I have a small circle of fellow seekers without whom I fear that I would have gone insane. I love them as much as I have ever loved anybody. > > *.Not necessarily bad tho. > > > > > And each of the wind up at the same place. > > Been there 'scripted' that, haven't you? > > > Yes. > > > > > > > > > > Funny huh? > > I don't think so...AT ALL! > I really didn't mean funny funny. It all is really quite oddly delightful. Nice talking with you. Thanks. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2008 Report Share Posted May 23, 2008 Nisargadatta , souldreamone wrote: > > > In a message dated 5/22/2008 10:40:06 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > lastrain writes: > > Within manifestation...sentience is an extremely rare and precious gift. > > Within sentience.......awareness of self is the rarest and most exotic. > > It offers the broadest spectrum of experience ever available to any life > form. > > When sentience becomes aware of its self within a conceptual context a sort > of phantom > emerges....and in that identifying circularity a desire to protect that > which never existed > becomes a preoccupation. > > The sense of a separate self evolved because it helps the organism survive > and > reproduce......but it does have a down side. > > > > > ****The sense of a separate self is not, by itself, any sort of problem. > (All 'Awakened' beings retain this sense of self) The squirrels and birds have > this sense of being separate, and this is indeed necessary for survival, but > there is no suffering in these creatures because they are devoid of an > additional egoic overlay that has developed in humans, not as an advantage to > survival, but as an additional challenge that points to the next evolutionary step. > This self awareness is the ability to project one's fate into the future and > contemplate such. It is the root of all human suffering and does not aid in > survival at all, I would disagree that the ideation of self does not have a survival value for the human organism. One of the fundamental rules in evolution is qui bono...who benefits. Every quality in living organism is sustained because it did at sometime help the organism survive and reproduce. The very reason that there are six billion humans on earth is the evolution of self and its forward looking abilities. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2008 Report Share Posted May 23, 2008 In a message dated 23/05/2008 9:25:22 AM Pacific Daylight Time, lastrain writes: > ****The sense of a separate self is not, by itself, any sort of problem. > (All 'Awakened' beings retain this sense of self) The squirrels and birds have > this sense of being separate, and this is indeed necessary for survival, but > there is no suffering in these creatures because they are devoid of an > additional egoic overlay that has developed in humans, not as an advantage to > survival, but as an additional challenge that points to the next evolutionary step. > This self awareness is the ability to project one's fate into the future and > contemplate such. It is the root of all human suffering and does not aid in > survival at all,I would disagree that the ideation of self does not have a survival value for the human organism.One of the fundamental rules in evolution is qui bono...who benefits.Every quality in living organism is sustained because it did at sometime help the organism survive and reproduce.The very reason that there are six billion humans on earth is the evolution of self and its forward looking abilities.toombaru ***Oddly, survival is not the issue and is not what's happening here. It only seems so from the perspective of one who fears for his survival. In a system that is fully integrated, everything in the system benefits from every successful change. If all successful changes were driven entirely by the survival of one species or individual at the expense of another, there would be war in the natural world instead of cooperation. Again, to those who feel they are fighting for their survival, it may even appear that nature IS at war with itself. It is not. Life is not, and never was, in a battle for it's survival because there is nothing to oppose life. There is nothing on the other side of the battle line. So, what is happening? Evolution, itself, is happening for it's own sake. Life has exploded into every imaginable form of expression. It flies, walks, crawls, swims, and even tunnels through the Earth itself, and all of it is becomming something else; transcending the boundaries of it's pond, the pull of the Earth, and even the limits of it's physical consciousness. Tell a dandelion that it is fighting for it's survival as it pushes it's way through a crack in the concrete, or a vine as it reaches out for something to grab hold of so that it can climb even higher. Survival is never enough and leads only to stagnation. Everything is reaching out to become more, including you. Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2008 Report Share Posted May 23, 2008 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , souldreamone@ wrote: > > > > > > In a message dated 5/22/2008 10:40:06 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > > lastrain@ writes: > > > > Within manifestation...sentience is an extremely rare and precious gift. > > > > Within sentience.......awareness of self is the rarest and most exotic. > > > > It offers the broadest spectrum of experience ever available to any life > > form. > > > > When sentience becomes aware of its self within a conceptual context a sort > > of phantom > > emerges....and in that identifying circularity a desire to protect that > > which never existed > > becomes a preoccupation. > > > > The sense of a separate self evolved because it helps the organism survive > > and > > reproduce......but it does have a down side. > > > > > > > > > > ****The sense of a separate self is not, by itself, any sort of problem. > > (All 'Awakened' beings retain this sense of self) The squirrels and birds have > > this sense of being separate, and this is indeed necessary for survival, but > > there is no suffering in these creatures because they are devoid of an > > additional egoic overlay that has developed in humans, not as an advantage to > > survival, but as an additional challenge that points to the next evolutionary step. > > This self awareness is the ability to project one's fate into the future and > > contemplate such. It is the root of all human suffering and does not aid in > > survival at all, > > > > > I would disagree that the ideation of self does not have a survival value for the human > organism. > Yes, Toomb, It is very justified that you disagree here. When you watch that video I recommended in my last post then the human dilemma gets quite obvious: On one hand we would devote our complete life to get lost in the beauty and grandeur of life and on the other hand we are born to develop a separete self so that we can survive as a social being. Social in the sense of being a memmber of a community, of society with all its pros and cons. All those spiritual and hopeful idealistic talks and chats won't change the situation. Werner > One of the fundamental rules in evolution is qui bono...who benefits. > > Every quality in living organism is sustained because it did at sometime help the organism > survive and reproduce. > > The very reason that there are six billion humans on earth is the evolution of self and its > forward looking abilities. > > > > > > toombaru > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2008 Report Share Posted May 23, 2008 Nisargadatta/message/61022 > > > > I would disagree that the ideation of self does not have a > survival value for the human > > organism. Yes, it does, if one's proof of existence <survival> moved to the cyber space posting 24/7 voicing ..ideations... something like: " I post, therefore I AM " > Yes, Toomb, > > It is very justified that you disagree here. > > When you watch that video I recommended in my last post then the > human dilemma gets quite obvious: > > On one hand we would devote our complete life to get lost in the > beauty and grandeur of life and on the other hand we are born to > develop a separete self so that we can survive as a social being. > Social in the sense of being a memmber of a community, of society > with all its pros and cons. > > All those spiritual and hopeful idealistic talks and chats won't > change the situation. > > Werner > Era > > One of the fundamental rules in evolution is qui bono...who > benefits. > > > > Every quality in living organism is sustained because it did at > sometime help the organism > > survive and reproduce. > > > > The very reason that there are six billion humans on earth is the > evolution of self and its > > forward looking abilities. > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2008 Report Share Posted May 23, 2008 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , souldreamone@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 5/22/2008 10:40:06 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > > > lastrain@ writes: > > > > > > Within manifestation...sentience is an extremely rare and > precious gift. > > > > > > Within sentience.......awareness of self is the rarest and most > exotic. > > > > > > It offers the broadest spectrum of experience ever available to > any life > > > form. > > > > > > When sentience becomes aware of its self within a conceptual > context a sort > > > of phantom > > > emerges....and in that identifying circularity a desire to > protect that > > > which never existed > > > becomes a preoccupation. > > > > > > The sense of a separate self evolved because it helps the > organism survive > > > and > > > reproduce......but it does have a down side. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ****The sense of a separate self is not, by itself, any sort of > problem. > > > (All 'Awakened' beings retain this sense of self) The squirrels > and birds have > > > this sense of being separate, and this is indeed necessary for > survival, but > > > there is no suffering in these creatures because they are devoid > of an > > > additional egoic overlay that has developed in humans, not as an > advantage to > > > survival, but as an additional challenge that points to the next > evolutionary step. > > > This self awareness is the ability to project one's fate into > the future and > > > contemplate such. It is the root of all human suffering and does > not aid in > > > survival at all, > > > > > > > > > > I would disagree that the ideation of self does not have a > survival value for the human > > organism. > > > > > Yes, Toomb, > > It is very justified that you disagree here. > > When you watch that video I recommended in my last post then the > human dilemma gets quite obvious: > > On one hand we would devote our complete life to get lost in the > beauty and grandeur of life and on the other hand we are born to > develop a separete self so that we can survive as a social being. > Social in the sense of being a memmber of a community, of society > with all its pros and cons. > > All those spiritual and hopeful idealistic talks and chats won't > change the situation. > > Werner > > After a time........they just appear as part of the situation. And the situation appears grand. t. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2008 Report Share Posted May 23, 2008 Nisargadatta , " Era " <mi_nok wrote: > > Nisargadatta/message/61022 > > > > > > > I would disagree that the ideation of self does not have a > > survival value for the human > > > organism. > > Yes, it does, if one's proof of existence <survival> moved to the > cyber space > posting 24/7 voicing ..ideations... > > something like: " I post, therefore I AM " > Era, This is why you were removed as moderator. Will you drop it for christsakes? toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2008 Report Share Posted May 23, 2008 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Era " <mi_nok@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta/message/61022 > > > > > > > > > > I would disagree that the ideation of self does not have a > > > survival value for the human > > > > organism. > > > > Yes, it does, if one's proof of existence <survival> moved to the > > cyber space > > posting 24/7 voicing ..ideations... > > > > something like: " I post, therefore I AM " > > > > > > Era, > > > This is why you were removed as moderator. > > > Will you drop it for christsakes? > > > > toombaru No. You confused fascist. I will post also. Era Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2008 Report Share Posted May 23, 2008 In a message dated 23/05/2008 2:52:57 PM Pacific Daylight Time, lastrain writes: > > ***Oddly, survival is not the issue and is not what's happening here. It > only seems so from the perspective of one who fears for his survival. In a > system that is fully integrated, everything in the system benefits from every > successful change. If all successful changes were driven entirely by the survival > of one species or individual at the expense of another, there would be war > in the natural world instead of cooperation.Life is a war.Anemones slowly surround an intruder from a different species and kill the.It may take five years.....but the goal is to kill.Trees evolved to rush toward the sun to block it from their neighbors."Co operation is a conceptual overlay that only comforts the illusion of autonomy.Co operation occurs only if it has proven to benefit the individual co operating parties. ***This is exactly the fear perspective to which I was referring. I'm not familiar with the homicidal tenedencies of sea anemonies, but my guess is it's much more about lunch than killing. Trees do not plot a strategy to block sun from anything. They simply grow, and in doing so they provide shelter and shade for other forms of life. If you see life as a war, then that's what it is for you. I'm simply saying it isn't until your fear tells you it is. Cooperation is inherent in the functioning of nature because it is not made up of separate autonomous parts. Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2008 Report Share Posted May 23, 2008 Nisargadatta , souldreamone wrote: > > > In a message dated 23/05/2008 9:25:22 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > lastrain writes: > > > ****The sense of a separate self is not, by itself, any sort of problem. > > (All 'Awakened' beings retain this sense of self) The squirrels and birds > have > > this sense of being separate, and this is indeed necessary for survival, > but > > there is no suffering in these creatures because they are devoid of an > > additional egoic overlay that has developed in humans, not as an > advantage to > > survival, but as an additional challenge that points to the next > evolutionary step. > > This self awareness is the ability to project one's fate into the future > and > > contemplate such. It is the root of all human suffering and does not aid > in > > survival at all, > > > > > I would disagree that the ideation of self does not have a survival value > for the human > organism. > > One of the fundamental rules in evolution is qui bono...who benefits. > > Every quality in living organism is sustained because it did at sometime > help the organism > survive and reproduce. > > The very reason that there are six billion humans on earth is the evolution > of self and its > forward looking abilities. > > > > > > toombaru > > > > ***Oddly, survival is not the issue and is not what's happening here. It > only seems so from the perspective of one who fears for his survival. In a > system that is fully integrated, everything in the system benefits from every > successful change. If all successful changes were driven entirely by the survival > of one species or individual at the expense of another, there would be war > in the natural world instead of cooperation. Life is a war. Anemones slowly surround an intruder from a different species and kill the. It may take five years.....but the goal is to kill. Trees evolved to rush toward the sun to block it from their neighbors. " Co operation is a conceptual overlay that only comforts the illusion of autonomy. Co operation occurs only if it has proven to benefit the individual co operating parties. Again, to those who feel they are > fighting for their survival, it may even appear that nature IS at war with > itself. It is not. Those beautiful...peaceful reef fish.....are at war. They have two goals....survive and reproduce. And there a raw, stark beauty in that that is not even approached by the sugar coated overlay of the fear ridden conceptual mind. > > Life is not, and never was, in a battle for it's survival because there is > nothing to oppose life. There is nothing on the other side of the battle line. Life is a struggle against the elements. Look around. > So, what is happening? Evolution, itself, is happening for it's own sake. > Life has exploded into every imaginable form of expression. It flies, walks, > crawls, swims, and even tunnels through the Earth itself, and all of it is > becomming something else; transcending the boundaries of it's pond, the pull of > the Earth, and even the limits of it's physical consciousness. > > Tell a dandelion that it is fighting for it's survival as it pushes it's way > through a crack in the concrete, or a vine as it reaches out for something > to grab hold of so that it can climb even higher. Survival is never enough and > leads only to stagnation. Everything is reaching out to become more, > including you. No life form is struggling to do anything but survive and reproduce. Only the mind in man is discontent with its imagined kingdom...as well is should be. The world....from its perspective is a terrifying place.....as well it should be. There is an alternative. toombaru > > > > **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch " Cooking with > Tyler Florence " on AOL Food. > (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4 & ?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 24, 2008 Report Share Posted May 24, 2008 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Johan " <yohansky@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > > I am not saying that normal down to earth existence is a bad thing. > > > > > > > Then what are you saying? > > > Within manifestation...sentience is an extremely rare and precious gift. > > Within sentience.......awareness of self is the rarest and most exotic. > > It offers the broadest spectrum of experience ever available to any life form. > > When sentience becomes aware of its self within a conceptual context a sort of phantom > emerges....and in that identifying circularity a desire to protect that which never existed > becomes a preoccupation. > > The sense of a separate self evolved because it helps the organism survive and > reproduce......but it does have a down side. > > There is an alternative way to perceive reality in which the sense of self is no longer the > center of one's world. > > But it does not lend itself to conceptualization simply because it is in the naming of > things that it emerges and sustains its pseudo reatity. > Do you really think that if the 'great beings' addressed their followers with speeches like the above we would have the great (disastrous?) religions as we know them to be today? I don't think so, and I'm pretty sure that you must be only one who's very very impressed with this avalanche of nonsense, let alone find any meaning in it. Simplicity is the mother of genius and wisdom, WAKE UP TO IT Toom, there are enough Tolles, Robbins es and Dr. Phills around us. You are hindered by your knowledge. > Of course......as they quoted from those who preceded them. > > Nisargadatta did not come up with " blood washing blood " or " child of a barren woman " . > > All of what Christ said can be found in earlier texts. > > Ramana referred to many ancient works....as did Sankara. > > There is nothing new in any of their works. > There is nothing new about their works? Do you really think that all your thousands of contrived posts have contributed to better understanding of the unexplainable? Do you really think you can better those sages? Why all the effort? And yes, of course 'the great masters' may have borrowed some of the already existing texts, if at all, in their run up to liberation. However, after having achieved their quest to realization, there was only the creation of the now in where there is no thing or action ever the same again. That's called perfect creativity, and it was from that source where their teachings found 'mainstream', spread very cautiously, with carefully chosen words, in order not to create too much confusion. No pretense, unassuming, original every moment. But you know all that of course. " There is nothing new in any of their works. " -What arrogance, it suits the drama of a wannabe in need of help. > > I really didn't mean funny funny. > > > It all is really quite oddly delightful. > > > > Nice talking with you. > > > > > Thanks. > > > > toombaru > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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