The sense of a seaparate self is not, by itself, any sort of problem

[Guest guest]

HI Souldreamone,

 

You wrote, "The sense of a separate self is not, by itself, any sort of problem". Perhaps not....unless and until it is identified with....then all hell breaks loose!

 

Also, an "awakened being" (to use your words) might not have a "separate self" at all. Instead, perhaps their *sense of self* is limited to the "meat body", which is the psychophysical organism "awakeness" happens to, or is associated with, or is the vehicle for, as being "distinct" from *its* environment. But being distinct doesn't equate to being separate. Just like the color "red" in the in a rainbow is distinct from "green" but not *separate* (nor are "they" joined for that matter either).

 

It seems to me that the "psychophysicial human body" is programmed to survive, to continue, much like a "habit" or "intertia". As for "projecting one's fate into the future and contemplate such" (whomever or whatever that "one" is who/that is doing the projecting) ...that appears to me to be simply imagination motivated by the intentional attempt to strategically assure desired continuity in one form or another. This "imaginary conceptual journey" can be based on fear of dying...or perhaps on simple curiosity. One is "deathly serious" and the other is "lively play". Meanwhile, while all this "busyness of imagining" is going on there is a stillness that neither goes nor stays anywhere that is totally unmoved and unaltered by all the moving shennanigans of thought and thinking...not matter how subtle or intense they appear to be.

 

In regards to whether or not squirrels and birds don't experience suffering, I really don't know for sure. But my sense is that they do. When their mate dies, it appears to me they tend not to be as lively, as if they're moping. This interpretation might be incorrect. At the same time, in my experience a definite change in behavior is noticeable. Pets, for example, appear to despondingly search around the home for quite some time as if looking for their lost mate, companion, or buddy. At any rate, I don't think that animals, birds, etc (whether pets or not) are innately "indifferent to" (i.e., don't feel the impact of loss and a degree of grief) when a mate or one of their pack, herd, etc disappears. Ever watch the shows on penguins who hunt for their lost baby in the midst of hundreds and hundreds of them on a cold remote patch of ground where they go to give birth while issuing wailing cries. Deeply moving experience!

 

Michael

*****************************************

Souldreamone wrote,,, < ****The sense of a separate self is not, by itself, any sort of problem. < (All 'Awakened' beings retain this sense of self) The squirrels and birds have < this sense of being separate, and this is indeed necessary for survival, but < there is no suffering in these creatures because they are devoid of an < additional egoic overlay that has developed in humans, not as an advantage to < survival, but as an additional challenge that points to the next evolutionary step. < This self awareness is the ability to project one's fate into the future and < contemplate such. It is the root of all human suffering and does not aid in < survival at all, but is a neccesary capability in order to transcend the < individual animal nature.

 

********************************************************** There is an alternative way to perceive reality in which the sense of self is no longer the center of one's world.

 

But it does not lend itself to conceptualization simply because it is in the naming of things that it emerges and sustains its pseudo reatity.

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , " Adamson " <adamson wrote:

>

>

> HI Souldreamone,

>

> You wrote, " The sense of a separate self is not, by itself, any sort of

problem " . Perhaps

not....unless and until it is identified with....then all hell breaks loose!

>

> Also, an " awakened being " (to use your words) might not have a " separate self "

at all.

Instead, perhaps their *sense of self* is limited to the " meat body " , which is

the

psychophysical organism " awakeness " happens to, or is associated with, or is the

vehicle

for, as being " distinct " from *its* environment. But being distinct doesn't

equate to being

separate. Just like the color " red " in the in a rainbow is distinct from " green "

but not

*separate* (nor are " they " joined for that matter either).

>

> It seems to me that the " psychophysicial human body " is programmed to survive,

to

continue, much like a " habit " or " intertia " . As for " projecting one's fate into

the future and

contemplate such " (whomever or whatever that " one " is who/that is doing the

projecting)

....that appears to me to be simply imagination motivated by the intentional

attempt to

strategically assure desired continuity in one form or another. This " imaginary

conceptual

journey " can be based on fear of dying...or perhaps on simple curiosity. One is

" deathly

serious " and the other is " lively play " . Meanwhile, while all this " busyness of

imagining " is

going on there is a stillness that neither goes nor stays anywhere that is

totally unmoved

and unaltered by all the moving shennanigans of thought and thinking...not

matter how

subtle or intense they appear to be.

>

> In regards to whether or not squirrels and birds don't experience suffering, I

really don't

know for sure. But my sense is that they do. When their mate dies, it appears to

me they

tend not to be as lively, as if they're moping. This interpretation might be

incorrect. At the

same time, in my experience a definite change in behavior is noticeable. Pets,

for

example, appear to despondingly search around the home for quite some time as if

looking for their lost mate, companion, or buddy. At any rate, I don't think

that animals,

birds, etc (whether pets or not) are innately " indifferent to " (i.e., don't feel

the impact of

loss and a degree of grief) when a mate or one of their pack, herd, etc

disappears. Ever

watch the shows on penguins who hunt for their lost baby in the midst of

hundreds and

hundreds of them on a cold remote patch of ground where they go to give birth

while

issuing wailing cries. Deeply moving experience!

 

 

 

A long time ago, I owned a pair of snow geese.

 

The male was blue and his mate was perfectly white.

 

After he died.....for the longest time.......I would lie awake at

night.....crying......as I

listened to her calling for him.

 

 

 

 

 

 

t.