Guest guest Posted May 29, 2008 Report Share Posted May 29, 2008 The belief structure in which the conceptual identified entity finds itself is by nature in a constant state of stress. It is a highly evolved addendum that functions to help the organism survive whose contribution is fundamentally fear based. It adapts to the constant stress through an intricate system of compensatory adjustments. All of which occur within its own imagination. One of its many ruses is the mentation that involves what is named the " now " . In an attempt to make the stress tolerable....it imagines an " eternal now " and then imagines that it can somehow get to this magical place.....and wile away its time......just drifting through the dream.........happy as a clam. It seems that very few of the phantoms are wired to question the whole idea of now....and even fewer to ask about the nature of the one that seeks refuge in it. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 29, 2008 Report Share Posted May 29, 2008 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > > > > > The belief structure in which the conceptual identified entity finds itself is by nature in a > constant state of stress. Toomb, there is no such thing as an identified entity. There is only memory which is accompanied by more or less strong emotions. If memory is causing an emotion it is called identification, if it doesn't cause any emotion it is just called memory. And - there is no owner of memory, there is just memory. And therefore there is also no identified entity. No matter if you call it conceptual identified or non-conceptual identified. To recapitulate: There exists no entity which is identifying with something or which is identified with it. Werner > > It is a highly evolved addendum that functions to help the organism survive whose > contribution is fundamentally fear based. > > It adapts to the constant stress through an intricate system of compensatory adjustments. > > All of which occur within its own imagination. > > One of its many ruses is the mentation that involves what is named the " now " . > > In an attempt to make the stress tolerable....it imagines an " eternal now " and then > imagines that it can somehow get to this magical place.....and wile away its time......just > drifting through the dream.........happy as a clam. > > It seems that very few of the phantoms are wired to question the whole idea of now....and > even fewer to ask about the nature of the one that seeks refuge in it. > > > toombaru > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 29, 2008 Report Share Posted May 29, 2008 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > > > > > The belief structure in which the conceptual identified entity finds itself is by nature in a > constant state of stress. > > It is a highly evolved addendum that functions to help the organism survive whose > contribution is fundamentally fear based. > > It adapts to the constant stress through an intricate system of compensatory adjustments. > > All of which occur within its own imagination. > > One of its many ruses is the mentation that involves what is named the " now " . Not the NOW as and object, idea, BUT TO *BE IN THE NOW without any overlay. What you are talking about is one of the million overlays possible imo Era > > In an attempt to make the stress tolerable....it imagines an " eternal now " and then > imagines that it can somehow get to this magical place.....and wile away its time......just > drifting through the dream.........happy as a clam. > > It seems that very few of the phantoms are wired to question the whole idea of now....and > even fewer to ask about the nature of the one that seeks refuge in it. > > > toombaru > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 30, 2008 Report Share Posted May 30, 2008 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > The belief structure in which the conceptual identified entity > finds itself is by nature in a > > constant state of stress. > > > Toomb, > > there is no such thing as an identified entity. > > There is only memory which is accompanied by more or less strong > emotions. > > If memory is causing an emotion it is called identification, if it > doesn't cause any emotion it is just called memory. > > And - there is no owner of memory, there is just memory. And > therefore there is also no identified entity. No matter if you call > it conceptual identified or non-conceptual identified. > > To recapitulate: There exists no entity which is identifying with > something or which is identified with it. > > Werner > > Werner, I agree. There is no such thing as a whirlpool......and yet there is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 30, 2008 Report Share Posted May 30, 2008 Nisargadatta , " Era " <mi_nok wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > The belief structure in which the conceptual identified entity finds > itself is by nature in a > > constant state of stress. > > > > It is a highly evolved addendum that functions to help the organism > survive whose > > contribution is fundamentally fear based. > > > > It adapts to the constant stress through an intricate system of > compensatory adjustments. > > > > All of which occur within its own imagination. > > > > One of its many ruses is the mentation that involves what is named > the " now " . > > > Not the NOW as and object, idea, BUT TO *BE IN THE NOW without any > overlay. > > What you are talking about is one of the million overlays possible > > imo > > Era > > > > Hi Era, When there is no possibility of being anywhere outside of.......let's say California...........then there could be no California. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 30, 2008 Report Share Posted May 30, 2008 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The belief structure in which the conceptual identified entity > > finds itself is by nature in a > > > constant state of stress. > > > > > > Toomb, > > > > there is no such thing as an identified entity. > > > > There is only memory which is accompanied by more or less strong > > emotions. > > > > If memory is causing an emotion it is called identification, if it > > doesn't cause any emotion it is just called memory. > > > > And - there is no owner of memory, there is just memory. And > > therefore there is also no identified entity. No matter if you call > > it conceptual identified or non-conceptual identified. > > > > To recapitulate: There exists no entity which is identifying with > > something or which is identified with it. > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > Werner, > > I agree. > > There is no such thing as a whirlpool......and yet there is. > I don't understand this answer, Toomb, Do you want to say there is an identified self and yet there isn't ? As I just before have expained there is no such a thing as a self, call it being identified or not being identified. There is only memory causing more or less strong physical sensations which are called emotions - that's all. And this whole memory structure we call the " self " because it is representing our biography, our subjectivity, one's world, society etc. All that we call the " Now " or Maharaj was calling it the " I am " . The Now, the I-am, the Being and Consciousness is one and the same thing, it just got different names. Consciousness IS its content - no content, no consciousneess. And consciousness IS memory. Therefore the Now, the I-am, the Being, Consciousness is the same, IS memory. Werner Werner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 30, 2008 Report Share Posted May 30, 2008 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > > > > > The belief structure in which the conceptual identified entity finds itself is by nature in a > constant state of stress. > > It is a highly evolved addendum that functions to help the organism survive whose > contribution is fundamentally fear based. > > It adapts to the constant stress through an intricate system of compensatory adjustments. > > All of which occur within its own imagination. > > One of its many ruses is the mentation that involves what is named the " now " . > > In an attempt to make the stress tolerable....it imagines an " eternal now " and then > imagines that it can somehow get to this magical place.....and wile away its time......just > drifting through the dream.........happy as a clam. > > It seems that very few of the phantoms are wired to question the whole idea of now....and > even fewer to ask about the nature of the one that seeks refuge in it. > > > toombaru " The belief structure in which the conceptual identified entity finds itself is by nature in a > constant state of stress. " yes.... but such described entity.....in " constant state of stress " only can observe similar described entities...... nothing else ..... ...... cool down!..... everything will be fine.... one day..... Marc Ps: in reality, indeed, there aren't such imaginary described stressed individual entities..... all there is.....is of one wonderful and perfect peace..... in which nothing ever happen realy..... except little words.....here & there.... little few actions......here & there.... little memory running.....here & there.... little..... ...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 30, 2008 Report Share Posted May 30, 2008 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The belief structure in which the conceptual identified entity > > > finds itself is by nature in a > > > > constant state of stress. > > > > > > > > > Toomb, > > > > > > there is no such thing as an identified entity. > > > > > > There is only memory which is accompanied by more or less strong > > > emotions. > > > > > > If memory is causing an emotion it is called identification, if > it > > > doesn't cause any emotion it is just called memory. > > > > > > And - there is no owner of memory, there is just memory. And > > > therefore there is also no identified entity. No matter if you > call > > > it conceptual identified or non-conceptual identified. > > > > > > To recapitulate: There exists no entity which is identifying with > > > something or which is identified with it. > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner, > > > > I agree. > > > > There is no such thing as a whirlpool......and yet there is. > > > > > I don't understand this answer, Toomb, > > Do you want to say there is an identified self and yet there isn't ? Yes. There is river......and yet there isn't. What happens to a river when it flows into the ocean? There is a mountain.....and yet there isn't. Where does the mountain end and the valley begin. There is a lap...untill you stand up. There is a fist....untill you open your hand. Where did the fist go? There is a self.....untill it is seen for what it is. > > As I just before have expained there is no such a thing as a self, > call it being identified or not being identified. > > There is only memory causing more or less strong physical sensations > which are called emotions - that's all. ........and yet........... > > And this whole memory structure we call the " self " because it is > representing our biography, our subjectivity, one's world, society > etc. All that we call the " Now " or Maharaj was calling it the " I am " . > > The Now, the I-am, the Being and Consciousness is one and the same > thing, it just got different names. The content of consciousness is searching within the content of consciousness for consciousness itself. Consciousness is searching within its own concepts for the source of concepts. > > Consciousness IS its content - no content, no consciousneess. And > consciousness IS memory. > > Therefore the Now, the I-am, the Being, Consciousness is the same, IS > memory. > > Werner > > It is not anything that it can name. :-) t. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 30, 2008 Report Share Posted May 30, 2008 Hello Marc,I think this verse from Ramana's 40 verses on reality (truth) suits your phylosophy. "'The world is real.' 'No, it, is a mere illusory appearance.' 'The world is conscious.' 'No.' 'The world is happiness( i.e. it is conscousness - existance - bliss).' 'No...' What use is it to argue thus? Leave this worldly vision (approach), (be introvert) know one's Self (know one's true nature), drop all notions of duality & non-duality, without 'I' (egoless), this state of self realisation (ultimate truth) is universally accepted and acknowledged." verse No. 3I think this is what you are trying to express.Am i right?AUMSujal--- On Thu, 29/5/08, dennis_travis33 <dennis_travis33 wrote:dennis_travis33 <dennis_travis33 Re: "Now"Nisargadatta Date: Thursday, 29 May, 2008, 11:50 PMNisargadatta, "toombaru2006" <lastrain@.. .> wrote: > > > > > > The belief structure in which the conceptual identified entity finds itself is by nature in a > constant state of stress. > > It is a highly evolved addendum that functions to help the organism survive whose > contribution is fundamentally fear based. > > It adapts to the constant stress through an intricate system of compensatory adjustments. > > All of which occur within its own imagination. > > One of its many ruses is the mentation that involves what is named the "now". > > In an attempt to make the stress tolerable... .it imagines an "eternal now" and then > imagines that it can somehow get to this magical place.....and wile away its time......just > drifting through the dream....... ..happy as a clam. > > It seems that very few of the phantoms are wired to question the whole idea of now....and > even fewer to ask about the nature of the one that seeks refuge in it. > > > toombaru "The belief structure in which the conceptual identified entity finds itself is by nature in a > constant state of stress." yes.... but such described entity.....in "constant state of stress" only can observe similar described entities.... .. nothing else ..... ..... cool down!..... everything will be fine.... one day..... Marc Ps: in reality, indeed, there aren't such imaginary described stressed individual entities.... . all there is.....is of one wonderful and perfect peace..... in which nothing ever happen realy..... except little words.....here & there..... little few actions..... .here & there. ... little memory running..... here & there. ... little..... ..... BMR - a key player in weight issues. Know more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 30, 2008 Report Share Posted May 30, 2008 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The belief structure in which the conceptual identified entity > > > > finds itself is by nature in a > > > > > constant state of stress. > > > > > > > > > > > > Toomb, > > > > > > > > there is no such thing as an identified entity. > > > > > > > > There is only memory which is accompanied by more or less strong > > > > emotions. > > > > > > > > If memory is causing an emotion it is called identification, if > > it > > > > doesn't cause any emotion it is just called memory. > > > > > > > > And - there is no owner of memory, there is just memory. And > > > > therefore there is also no identified entity. No matter if you > > call > > > > it conceptual identified or non-conceptual identified. > > > > > > > > To recapitulate: There exists no entity which is identifying with > > > > something or which is identified with it. > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner, > > > > > > I agree. > > > > > > There is no such thing as a whirlpool......and yet there is. > > > > > > > > > I don't understand this answer, Toomb, > > > > Do you want to say there is an identified self and yet there isn't ? > > > Yes. > > > There is river......and yet there isn't. > > What happens to a river when it flows into the ocean? > > There is a mountain.....and yet there isn't. > > Where does the mountain end and the valley begin. > > There is a lap...untill you stand up. > > There is a fist....untill you open your hand. > > Where did the fist go? > > There is a self.....untill it is seen for what it is. > > > > > > As I just before have expained there is no such a thing as a self, > > call it being identified or not being identified. > > > > There is only memory causing more or less strong physical sensations > > which are called emotions - that's all. > > > .......and yet........... > > > > > > > > And this whole memory structure we call the " self " because it is > > representing our biography, our subjectivity, one's world, society > > etc. All that we call the " Now " or Maharaj was calling it the " I am " . > > > > The Now, the I-am, the Being and Consciousness is one and the same > > thing, it just got different names. > > > > > The content of consciousness is searching within the content of consciousness for > consciousness itself. No, Toomb, Something is searching and the result of that search eventually will get made conscious but it is not consciousness itself which is searching. Consciousness IS !!! memory and memory isn't searching anything. Consciousness in now way is an activity, an active agent which can do or plan or react. Please see: When memory neurons in the brain start firing then this firing is called consciousness, but it is and remains an activity of memory. One has to say good bye to that idea traded since millennia that consciousness is a mirror and that this mirror can get wiped clean - this is all rubbish and nonsense. And there is also no witness, no owner of consciousness. Werner > > Consciousness is searching within its own concepts for the source of concepts. > > > > > > > > Consciousness IS its content - no content, no consciousneess. And > > consciousness IS memory. > > > > Therefore the Now, the I-am, the Being, Consciousness is the same, IS > > memory. > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > It is not anything that it can name. > > > > :-) > > > > > t. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 30, 2008 Report Share Posted May 30, 2008 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > <lastrain@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The belief structure in which the conceptual identified > entity > > > > > finds itself is by nature in a > > > > > > constant state of stress. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Toomb, > > > > > > > > > > there is no such thing as an identified entity. > > > > > > > > > > There is only memory which is accompanied by more or less > strong > > > > > emotions. > > > > > > > > > > If memory is causing an emotion it is called identification, > if > > > it > > > > > doesn't cause any emotion it is just called memory. > > > > > > > > > > And - there is no owner of memory, there is just memory. And > > > > > therefore there is also no identified entity. No matter if > you > > > call > > > > > it conceptual identified or non-conceptual identified. > > > > > > > > > > To recapitulate: There exists no entity which is identifying > with > > > > > something or which is identified with it. > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner, > > > > > > > > I agree. > > > > > > > > There is no such thing as a whirlpool......and yet there is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't understand this answer, Toomb, > > > > > > Do you want to say there is an identified self and yet there > isn't ? > > > > > > Yes. > > > > > > There is river......and yet there isn't. > > > > What happens to a river when it flows into the ocean? > > > > There is a mountain.....and yet there isn't. > > > > Where does the mountain end and the valley begin. > > > > There is a lap...untill you stand up. > > > > There is a fist....untill you open your hand. > > > > Where did the fist go? > > > > There is a self.....untill it is seen for what it is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As I just before have expained there is no such a thing as a > self, > > > call it being identified or not being identified. > > > > > > There is only memory causing more or less strong physical > sensations > > > which are called emotions - that's all. > > > > > > .......and yet........... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And this whole memory structure we call the " self " because it is > > > representing our biography, our subjectivity, one's world, > society > > > etc. All that we call the " Now " or Maharaj was calling it the " I > am " . > > > > > > The Now, the I-am, the Being and Consciousness is one and the > same > > > thing, it just got different names. > > > > > > > > > > The content of consciousness is searching within the content of > consciousness for > > consciousness itself. > > > No, Toomb, > > Something is searching and the result of that search eventually will > get made conscious but it is not consciousness itself which is > searching. > > Consciousness IS !!! memory and memory isn't searching anything. > > Consciousness in now way is an activity, an active agent which can do > or plan or react. > > Please see: When memory neurons in the brain start firing then this > firing is called consciousness, but it is and remains an activity of > memory. > > One has to say good bye to that idea traded since millennia that > consciousness is a mirror and that this mirror can get wiped clean - > this is all rubbish and nonsense. > > And there is also no witness, no owner of consciousness. > > Werner > > > > I think we're speaking the same lingo. :-) Good night Werner. Its been fun. t. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 30, 2008 Report Share Posted May 30, 2008 Nisargadatta , sujal <sujal_u wrote: > > Hello Marc, > > I think this verse from Ramana's 40 verses on reality (truth) suits your phylosophy. > > " 'The world is real.' 'No, it, is a mere illusory appearance.' 'The world is conscious.' 'No.' 'The world is happiness( i.e. it is conscousness - existance - bliss).' 'No...' What use is it to argue thus? Leave this worldly vision (approach), (be introvert) know one's Self (know one's true nature), drop all notions of duality & amp; non-duality, without 'I' (egoless), this state of self realisation (ultimate truth) is universally accepted and acknowledged. " verse No. 3 > > I think this is what you are trying to express. > Am i right? > > AUM > > Sujal Hello Sujal, ........reading this your message and words of Ramana.....i think that Ramana indeed is talking about same " Self " (true nature).....and so, about an " egoless " view.....a relax & peaceful view/reality.....in which what is called " the world " is of an appearent world ONLY Marc > > --- On Thu, 29/5/08, dennis_travis33 dennis_travis33 wrote: > dennis_travis33 dennis_travis33 > Re: " Now " > Nisargadatta > Thursday, 29 May, 2008, 11:50 PM > > Nisargadatta, " toombaru2006 " lastrain@ . & gt; > wrote: > & gt; > & gt; > & gt; > & gt; > & gt; > & gt; The belief structure in which the conceptual identified entity > finds itself is by nature in a > & gt; constant state of stress. > & gt; > & gt; It is a highly evolved addendum that functions to help the organism > survive whose > & gt; contribution is fundamentally fear based. > & gt; > & gt; It adapts to the constant stress through an intricate system of > compensatory adjustments. > & gt; > & gt; All of which occur within its own imagination. > & gt; > & gt; One of its many ruses is the mentation that involves what is named > the " now " . > & gt; > & gt; In an attempt to make the stress tolerable... .it imagines > an " eternal now " and then > & gt; imagines that it can somehow get to this magical place.....and wile > away its time......just > & gt; drifting through the dream....... ..happy as a clam. > & gt; > & gt; It seems that very few of the phantoms are wired to question the > whole idea of now....and > & gt; even fewer to ask about the nature of the one that seeks refuge in > it. > & gt; > & gt; > & gt; toombaru > > " The belief structure in which the conceptual identified entity finds > itself is by nature in a > & gt; constant state of stress. " > > yes.... > > but > > such described entity.....in " constant state of stress " only can > observe similar described entities.... .. > > nothing else ..... > > ..... > > cool down!..... > > everything will be fine.... > > one day..... > > > > Marc > > Ps: in reality, indeed, there aren't such imaginary described > stressed individual entities.... . > > all there is.....is of one wonderful and perfect peace..... > > in which nothing ever happen realy..... > > except little words.....here & amp; there.... > > little few actions..... .here & amp;there. ... > > little memory running..... here & amp;there. ... > > little..... > > ..... > > > > > Bring your gang together. Do your thing. Find your favourite group at http://in.promos./groups/ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 30, 2008 Report Share Posted May 30, 2008 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > <lastrain@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The belief structure in which the conceptual identified > entity > > > > > finds itself is by nature in a > > > > > > constant state of stress. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Toomb, > > > > > > > > > > there is no such thing as an identified entity. > > > > > > > > > > There is only memory which is accompanied by more or less > strong > > > > > emotions. > > > > > > > > > > If memory is causing an emotion it is called identification, > if > > > it > > > > > doesn't cause any emotion it is just called memory. > > > > > > > > > > And - there is no owner of memory, there is just memory. And > > > > > therefore there is also no identified entity. No matter if > you > > > call > > > > > it conceptual identified or non-conceptual identified. > > > > > > > > > > To recapitulate: There exists no entity which is identifying > with > > > > > something or which is identified with it. > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner, > > > > > > > > I agree. > > > > > > > > There is no such thing as a whirlpool......and yet there is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't understand this answer, Toomb, > > > > > > Do you want to say there is an identified self and yet there > isn't ? > > > > > > Yes. > > > > > > There is river......and yet there isn't. > > > > What happens to a river when it flows into the ocean? > > > > There is a mountain.....and yet there isn't. > > > > Where does the mountain end and the valley begin. > > > > There is a lap...untill you stand up. > > > > There is a fist....untill you open your hand. > > > > Where did the fist go? > > > > There is a self.....untill it is seen for what it is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As I just before have expained there is no such a thing as a > self, > > > call it being identified or not being identified. > > > > > > There is only memory causing more or less strong physical > sensations > > > which are called emotions - that's all. > > > > > > .......and yet........... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And this whole memory structure we call the " self " because it is > > > representing our biography, our subjectivity, one's world, > society > > > etc. All that we call the " Now " or Maharaj was calling it the " I > am " . > > > > > > The Now, the I-am, the Being and Consciousness is one and the > same > > > thing, it just got different names. > > > > > > > > > > The content of consciousness is searching within the content of > consciousness for > > consciousness itself. > > > No, Toomb, > > Something is searching and the result of that search eventually will > get made conscious but it is not consciousness itself which is > searching. > > Consciousness IS !!! memory and memory isn't searching anything. > > Consciousness in now way is an activity, an active agent which can do > or plan or react. > > Please see: When memory neurons in the brain start firing then this > firing is called consciousness, but it is and remains an activity of > memory. > > One has to say good bye to that idea traded since millennia that > consciousness is a mirror and that this mirror can get wiped clean - > this is all rubbish and nonsense. > > And there is also no witness, no owner of consciousness. > > Werner .....yes Werner.... say good night to imaginary toombaru......traded all the time long.......as your mirror that you are trying hard to wipe clean...... this is, indeed, all nonsense ..... there is no toombaru.....just like there is no Marc, no Werner.... ....... there is only consciousness, for real.....indeed, of no owner....and therefore....infinite, timeless, formless, changless Marc > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 30, 2008 Report Share Posted May 30, 2008 Hi Marc,In other verses Sri Ramana has said that for an ignorant person the world is limited to the the (visible) 3 dimensional world, while for a realised saint, the world is the substratum (or the source) of this 3 dimensional world. For a realised saint the world and his body is unlimited i.e. it is nothing other than the SELF or brahman. ... and yes i think Sri Ramana is talking about the same 'SELF'AUMSujal--- On Fri, 30/5/08, dennis_travis33 <dennis_travis33 wrote:dennis_travis33 <dennis_travis33Subject: Re: "Now"Nisargadatta Date: Friday, 30 May, 2008, 1:27 AMNisargadatta, sujal <sujal_u > wrote: > > Hello Marc, > > I think this verse from Ramana's 40 verses on reality (truth) suits your phylosophy. > > "'The world is real.' 'No, it, is a mere illusory appearance.' 'The world is conscious.' 'No.' 'The world is happiness( i.e. it is conscousness - existance - bliss).' 'No...' What use is it to argue thus? Leave this worldly vision (approach), (be introvert) know one's Self (know one's true nature), drop all notions of duality & amp; non-duality, without 'I' (egoless), this state of self realisation (ultimate truth) is universally accepted and acknowledged. " verse No. 3 > > I think this is what you are trying to express. > Am i right? > > AUM > > Sujal Hello Sujal, ........reading this your message and words of Ramana.....i think that Ramana indeed is talking about same "Self" (true nature)..... and so, about an "egoless" view.....a relax & peaceful view/reality. ....in which what is called "the world" is of an appearent world ONLY Marc > > --- On Thu, 29/5/08, dennis_travis33 dennis_travis33@ ... wrote: > dennis_travis33 dennis_travis33@ ... > Re: "Now" > Nisargadatta > Thursday, 29 May, 2008, 11:50 PM > > Nisargadatta, "toombaru2006" lastrain@ . & gt; > wrote: > & gt; > & gt; > & gt; > & gt; > & gt; > & gt; The belief structure in which the conceptual identified entity > finds itself is by nature in a > & gt; constant state of stress. > & gt; > & gt; It is a highly evolved addendum that functions to help the organism > survive whose > & gt; contribution is fundamentally fear based. > & gt; > & gt; It adapts to the constant stress through an intricate system of > compensatory adjustments. > & gt; > & gt; All of which occur within its own imagination. > & gt; > & gt; One of its many ruses is the mentation that involves what is named > the "now". > & gt; > & gt; In an attempt to make the stress tolerable... .it imagines > an "eternal now" and then > & gt; imagines that it can somehow get to this magical place.....and wile > away its time......just > & gt; drifting through the dream....... ..happy as a clam. > & gt; > & gt; It seems that very few of the phantoms are wired to question the > whole idea of now....and > & gt; even fewer to ask about the nature of the one that seeks refuge in > it. > & gt; > & gt; > & gt; toombaru > > "The belief structure in which the conceptual identified entity finds > itself is by nature in a > & gt; constant state of stress." > > yes.... > > but > > such described entity......in "constant state of stress" only can > observe similar described entities.... .. > > nothing else ..... > > ..... > > cool down!..... > > everything will be fine.... > > one day..... > > > > Marc > > Ps: in reality, indeed, there aren't such imaginary described > stressed individual entities..... . > > all there is.....is of one wonderful and perfect peace..... > > in which nothing ever happen realy..... > > except little words.....here & amp; there.... > > little few actions..... .here & amp;there. ... > > little memory running..... here & amp;there. ... > > little..... > > ..... > > > > > Bring your gang together. Do your thing. Find your favourite group at http://in.promos. / groups/ >__._,_..___ Messages in this topic (12) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic Messages ** If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: /mygroups?edit=1 Under the Message Delivery option, choose "No Email" for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. Change settings via the Web ( ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch format to Traditional Visit Your Group | Terms of Use | Un Recent Activity 3New Members Visit Your Group John McEnroeon Join him for the10 Day Challenge.Check out theY! Groups blogStay up to speedon all things Groups!Popular Y! GroupsIs your group one?Check it out andsee.. From Chandigarh to Chennai - find friends all over India. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 30, 2008 Report Share Posted May 30, 2008 Nisargadatta , sujal <sujal_u wrote: > > Hi Marc, > > In other verses Sri Ramana has said that for an ignorant person the world is limited to the the (visible) 3 dimensional world, while for a realised saint, the world is the substratum (or the source) of this 3 dimensional world. For a realised saint the world and his body is unlimited i.e. it is nothing other than the SELF or brahman. > > .... and yes i think Sri Ramana is talking about the same 'SELF' > > AUM > > Sujal Hello Sujal, yes, the " body " of Ramana is.....unlimited for a such " body " .....there is nothing but SELF Marc > > --- On Fri, 30/5/08, dennis_travis33 dennis_travis33 wrote: > dennis_travis33 dennis_travis33 > Re: " Now " > Nisargadatta > Friday, 30 May, 2008, 1:27 AM > > Nisargadatta, sujal sujal_u@ & gt; wrote: > & gt; > & gt; Hello Marc, > & gt; > & gt; I think this verse from Ramana's 40 verses on reality (truth) > suits your phylosophy. > & gt; > & gt; " 'The world is real.' 'No, it, is a mere illusory appearance.' 'The > world is conscious.' 'No.' 'The world is happiness( i.e. it is > conscousness - existance - bliss).' 'No...' What use is it to argue > thus? Leave this worldly vision (approach), (be introvert) know > one's Self (know one's true nature), drop all notions of duality > & amp;amp; non-duality, without 'I' (egoless), this state of self > realisation (ultimate truth) is universally accepted and > acknowledged. " verse No. 3 > & gt; > & gt; I think this is what you are trying to express. > & gt; Am i right? > & gt; > & gt; AUM > & gt; > & gt; Sujal > > Hello Sujal, > > .......reading this your message and words of Ramana.....i think that > Ramana indeed is talking about same " Self " (true nature)..... and so, > about an " egoless " view.....a relax & amp;peaceful view/reality. ....in > which what is called " the world " is of an appearent world ONLY > > Marc > > & gt; > & gt; --- On Thu, 29/5/08, dennis_travis33 dennis_travis33@ ... wrote: > & gt; dennis_travis33 dennis_travis33@ ... > & gt; Re: " Now " > & gt; Nisargadatta > & gt; Thursday, 29 May, 2008, 11:50 PM > & gt; > & gt; Nisargadatta, " toombaru2006 " > lastrain@ . & amp;gt; > & gt; wrote: > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; The belief structure in which the conceptual identified > entity > & gt; finds itself is by nature in a > & gt; & amp;gt; constant state of stress. > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; It is a highly evolved addendum that functions to help the > organism > & gt; survive whose > & gt; & amp;gt; contribution is fundamentally fear based. > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; It adapts to the constant stress through an intricate system > of > & gt; compensatory adjustments. > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; All of which occur within its own imagination. > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; One of its many ruses is the mentation that involves what is > named > & gt; the " now " . > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; In an attempt to make the stress tolerable... .it imagines > & gt; an " eternal now " and then > & gt; & amp;gt; imagines that it can somehow get to this magical > place.....and wile > & gt; away its time......just > & gt; & amp;gt; drifting through the dream....... ..happy as a clam. > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; It seems that very few of the phantoms are wired to question > the > & gt; whole idea of now....and > & gt; & amp;gt; even fewer to ask about the nature of the one that seeks > refuge in > & gt; it. > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; toombaru > & gt; > & gt; " The belief structure in which the conceptual identified entity > finds > & gt; itself is by nature in a > & gt; & amp;gt; constant state of stress. " > & gt; > & gt; yes.... > & gt; > & gt; but > & gt; > & gt; such described entity.....in " constant state of stress " only can > & gt; observe similar described entities.... .. > & gt; > & gt; nothing else ..... > & gt; > & gt; ..... > & gt; > & gt; cool down!..... > & gt; > & gt; everything will be fine.... > & gt; > & gt; one day..... > & gt; > & gt; > & gt; > & gt; Marc > & gt; > & gt; Ps: in reality, indeed, there aren't such imaginary described > & gt; stressed individual entities.... . > & gt; > & gt; all there is.....is of one wonderful and perfect peace..... > & gt; > & gt; in which nothing ever happen realy..... > & gt; > & gt; except little words.....here & amp; amp; there.... > & gt; > & gt; little few actions..... .here & amp;amp;there. ... > & gt; > & gt; little memory running..... here & amp;amp;there. ... > & gt; > & gt; little..... > & gt; > & gt; ..... > & gt; > & gt; > & gt; > & gt; > & gt; Bring your gang together. Do your thing. Find your favourite > group at http://in.promos. / groups/ > & gt; > > > > > From Chandigarh to Chennai - find friends all over India. Go to http://in.promos./groups/citygroups/ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 30, 2008 Report Share Posted May 30, 2008 Hi,The language or the way of expression is is called as 'Asmat Prayog'. I dont know the exact meaning of 'Asmat' but 'Prayog' means 'attempt'. There are words like 'dive within', 'be merged' etc which looks like dual from surface.The reason why the saints try to explain the non-dual concept in such a way is due to the fact that we, unknowingly, assume oueselves as body, mind, intellect, ego, etc. Our statements like 'I came 10 minutes earlier'. It goes without saying that in this case, we assume ourselves as body. I hope you get my point.So the process of undoing and neglecting all other than the SELF seems difficult for many people, eventhough it is the striaght path as gives clarity. This is the reason why the saints explain in this way. A person who is able to experience that is is different from the mind and the thoughts can only understand the process of undoing.The surface meaning (vachiarth) looks like dual, but the essence (lakshiarth) is the non-dual.Each word has a 'vachiarth' and a 'lakshiarth'.Following example is given by Swami Sukhbodhananda:A person points a finger to the idol of Lord Krishna and says "This is a statue of Lord Krishna"In this case, the finger pointing towards the idol is called as 'vachiarth'. It helps us to give direction. But we do not keep on looking at the tip of finger but look in the direction pointer by the finger. Thus we bypass the finger (as it has done it's work of giving direction) and look at the idol. This idol is the 'lakshiarth'. The finger is important but not the destination. The destination is the idol of lord Krishna.People try ot follow word by word and end up in rigidity and confusion. Sujal--- On Fri, 30/5/08, dennis_travis33 <dennis_travis33 wrote:dennis_travis33 <dennis_travis33 Re: "Now"Nisargadatta Date: Friday, 30 May, 2008, 2:11 AMNisargadatta, sujal <sujal_u > wrote: > > Hi Marc, > > In other verses Sri Ramana has said that for an ignorant person the world is limited to the the (visible) 3 dimensional world, while for a realised saint, the world is the substratum (or the source) of this 3 dimensional world. For a realised saint the world and his body is unlimited i.e. it is nothing other than the SELF or brahman. > > .... and yes i think Sri Ramana is talking about the same 'SELF' > > AUM > > Sujal Hello Sujal, yes, the "body" of Ramana is.....unlimited for a such "body".....there is nothing but SELF Marc > > --- On Fri, 30/5/08, dennis_travis33 dennis_travis33@ .... wrote: > dennis_travis33 dennis_travis33@ ... > Re: "Now" > Nisargadatta > Friday, 30 May, 2008, 1:27 AM > > Nisargadatta, sujal sujal_u@ & gt; wrote: > & gt; > & gt; Hello Marc, > & gt; > & gt; I think this verse from Ramana's 40 verses on reality (truth) > suits your phylosophy. > & gt; > & gt; "'The world is real.' 'No, it, is a mere illusory appearance.' 'The > world is conscious.' 'No.' 'The world is happiness( i.e.. it is > conscousness - existance - bliss).' 'No...' What use is it to argue > thus? Leave this worldly vision (approach), (be introvert) know > one's Self (know one's true nature), drop all notions of duality > & amp;amp; non-duality, without 'I' (egoless), this state of self > realisation (ultimate truth) is universally accepted and > acknowledged. " verse No. 3 > & gt; > & gt; I think this is what you are trying to express. > & gt; Am i right? > & gt; > & gt; AUM > & gt; > & gt; Sujal > > Hello Sujal, > > .......reading this your message and words of Ramana.....i think that > Ramana indeed is talking about same "Self" (true nature)..... and so, > about an "egoless" view.....a relax & amp;peaceful view/reality. ....in > which what is called "the world" is of an appearent world ONLY > > Marc > > & gt; > & gt; --- On Thu, 29/5/08, dennis_travis33 dennis_travis33@ ... wrote: > & gt; dennis_travis33 dennis_travis33@ ... > & gt; Re: "Now" > & gt; Nisargadatta > & gt; Thursday, 29 May, 2008, 11:50 PM > & gt; > & gt; Nisargadatta, "toombaru2006" > lastrain@ . & amp;gt; > & gt; wrote: > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; The belief structure in which the conceptual identified > entity > & gt; finds itself is by nature in a > & gt; & amp;gt; constant state of stress. > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; It is a highly evolved addendum that functions to help the > organism > & gt; survive whose > & gt; & amp;gt; contribution is fundamentally fear based. > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; It adapts to the constant stress through an intricate system > of > & gt; compensatory adjustments. > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; All of which occur within its own imagination. > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; One of its many ruses is the mentation that involves what is > named > & gt; the "now". > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; In an attempt to make the stress tolerable... .it imagines > & gt; an "eternal now" and then > & gt; & amp;gt; imagines that it can somehow get to this magical > place......and wile > & gt; away its time......just > & gt; & amp;gt; drifting through the dream....... ..happy as a clam. > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; It seems that very few of the phantoms are wired to question > the > & gt; whole idea of now....and > & gt; & amp;gt; even fewer to ask about the nature of the one that seeks > refuge in > & gt; it. > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; toombaru > & gt; > & gt; "The belief structure in which the conceptual identified entity > finds > & gt; itself is by nature in a > & gt; & amp;gt; constant state of stress." > & gt; > & gt; yes.... > & gt; > & gt; but > & gt; > & gt; such described entity.....in "constant state of stress" only can > & gt; observe similar described entities.... .. > & gt; > & gt; nothing else ..... > & gt; > & gt; ..... > & gt; > & gt; cool down!..... > & gt; > & gt; everything will be fine.... > & gt; > & gt; one day..... > & gt; > & gt; > & gt; > & gt; Marc > & gt; > & gt; Ps: in reality, indeed, there aren't such imaginary described > & gt; stressed individual entities.... . > & gt; > & gt; all there is.....is of one wonderful and perfect peace..... > & gt; > & gt; in which nothing ever happen realy..... > & gt; > & gt; except little words.....here & amp; amp; there.... > & gt; > & gt; little few actions..... .here & amp;amp; there. ... > & gt; > & gt; little memory running..... here & amp;amp; there. ... > & gt; > & gt; little..... > & gt; > & gt; ..... > & gt; > & gt; > & gt; > & gt; > & gt; Bring your gang together. Do your thing. Find your favourite > group at http://in.promos. / groups/ > & gt; > > > > > From Chandigarh to Chennai - find friends all over India. Go to http://in.promos. / groups/citygroup s/ > From Chandigarh to Chennai - find friends all over India. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 30, 2008 Report Share Posted May 30, 2008 Nisargadatta , sujal <sujal_u wrote: > > Hi, > > The language or the way of expression is is called as 'Asmat Prayog'. I dont know the exact meaning of 'Asmat' but 'Prayog' means 'attempt'. > > There are words like 'dive within', 'be merged' etc which looks like dual from surface. > The reason why the saints try to explain the non-dual concept in such a way is due to the fact that we, unknowingly, assume oueselves as body, mind, intellect, ego, etc. > > Our statements like 'I came 10 minutes earlier'. It goes without saying that in this case, we assume ourselves as body. I hope you get my point. > > So the process of undoing and neglecting all other than the SELF seems difficult for many people, eventhough it is the striaght path as gives clarity. > > This is the reason why the saints explain in this way. A person who is able to experience that is is different from the mind and the thoughts can only understand the process of undoing. > > The surface meaning (vachiarth) looks like dual, but the essence (lakshiarth) is the non-dual. > > Each word has a 'vachiarth' and a 'lakshiarth'.Following example is given by Swami Sukhbodhananda: > > > A person points a finger to the idol of Lord Krishna and says " This is a statue of Lord Krishna " > > In this case, the finger pointing towards the idol is called as 'vachiarth'.. It helps us to give direction. But we do not keep on looking at the tip of finger but look in the direction pointer by the finger. Thus we bypass the finger (as it has done it's work of giving direction) and look at the idol. This idol is the 'lakshiarth'. The finger is important but not the destination. The destination is the idol of lord Krishna. > > People try ot follow word by word and end up in rigidity and confusion.. > > Sujal Hello Sujal, yes, there are people who try to follow word by word....... scriptures are studied, word by word..... but the words ...all the words are of direction pointer only.... ....... many discussions were already going on in here.......during which people took messages.....word by word..... words fights without end.... and then....after a while.....people get simply tired of such non- sense......and agree finally on some simple smile.... .....which can give endless more expression than books filled up with words.... Marc Ps: maybe it's in the nature of ignorance that there are fights (with onself)....in order to get peace.....one day > > > --- On Fri, 30/5/08, dennis_travis33 dennis_travis33 wrote: > dennis_travis33 dennis_travis33 > Re: " Now " > Nisargadatta > Friday, 30 May, 2008, 2:11 AM > > Nisargadatta, sujal sujal_u@ & gt; wrote: > & gt; > & gt; Hi Marc, > & gt; > & gt; In other verses Sri Ramana has said that for an ignorant person the > world is limited to the the (visible) 3 dimensional world, while for > a realised saint, the world is the substratum (or the source) of this > 3 dimensional world. For a realised saint the world and his body is > unlimited i.e. it is nothing other than the SELF or brahman. > & gt; > & gt; .... and yes i think Sri Ramana is talking about the same 'SELF' > & gt; > & gt; AUM > & gt; > & gt; Sujal > > Hello Sujal, > > yes, the " body " of Ramana is.....unlimited > for a such " body " .....there is nothing but SELF > > Marc > > & gt; > & gt; --- On Fri, 30/5/08, dennis_travis33 dennis_travis33@ ... wrote: > & gt; dennis_travis33 dennis_travis33@ ... > & gt; Re: " Now " > & gt; Nisargadatta > & gt; Friday, 30 May, 2008, 1:27 AM > & gt; > & gt; Nisargadatta, sujal sujal_u@ & amp;gt; wrote: > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; Hello Marc, > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; I think this verse from Ramana's 40 verses on reality > (truth) > & gt; suits your phylosophy. > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; " 'The world is real.' 'No, it, is a mere illusory > appearance.' 'The > & gt; world is conscious.' 'No.' 'The world is happiness( i.e. it is > & gt; conscousness - existance - bliss).' 'No...' What use is it to > argue > & gt; thus? Leave this worldly vision (approach), (be introvert) > know > & gt; one's Self (know one's true nature), drop all notions of > duality > & gt; & amp;amp;amp; non-duality, without 'I' (egoless), this state of > self > & gt; realisation (ultimate truth) is universally accepted and > & gt; acknowledged. " verse No. 3 > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; I think this is what you are trying to express. > & gt; & amp;gt; Am i right? > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; AUM > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; Sujal > & gt; > & gt; Hello Sujal, > & gt; > & gt; .......reading this your message and words of Ramana.....i think > that > & gt; Ramana indeed is talking about same " Self " (true nature)..... and > so, > & gt; about an " egoless " view.....a relax & amp;amp;peaceful > view/reality. ....in > & gt; which what is called " the world " is of an appearent world ONLY > & gt; > & gt; Marc > & gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; --- On Thu, 29/5/08, dennis_travis33 dennis_travis33@ ... > wrote: > & gt; & amp;gt; dennis_travis33 dennis_travis33@ ... > & gt; & amp;gt; Re: " Now " > & gt; & amp;gt; Nisargadatta > & gt; & amp;gt; Thursday, 29 May, 2008, 11:50 PM > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; Nisargadatta@ . com, " toombaru2006 " > & gt; lastrain@ . & amp;amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; wrote: > & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;amp;gt; The belief structure in which the conceptual > identified > & gt; entity > & gt; & amp;gt; finds itself is by nature in a > & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;amp;gt; constant state of stress. > & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;amp;gt; It is a highly evolved addendum that functions to > help the > & gt; organism > & gt; & amp;gt; survive whose > & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;amp;gt; contribution is fundamentally fear based. > & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;amp;gt; It adapts to the constant stress through an > intricate system > & gt; of > & gt; & amp;gt; compensatory adjustments. > & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;amp;gt; All of which occur within its own imagination.. > & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;amp;gt; One of its many ruses is the mentation that > involves what is > & gt; named > & gt; & amp;gt; the " now " . > & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;amp;gt; In an attempt to make the stress tolerable... .it > imagines > & gt; & amp;gt; an " eternal now " and then > & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;amp;gt; imagines that it can somehow get to this magical > & gt; place.....and wile > & gt; & amp;gt; away its time......just > & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;amp;gt; drifting through the dream....... ..happy as a clam. > & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;amp;gt; It seems that very few of the phantoms are wired to > question > & gt; the > & gt; & amp;gt; whole idea of now....and > & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;amp;gt; even fewer to ask about the nature of the one that > seeks > & gt; refuge in > & gt; & amp;gt; it. > & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;amp;gt; toombaru > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; " The belief structure in which the conceptual identified > entity > & gt; finds > & gt; & amp;gt; itself is by nature in a > & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;amp;gt; constant state of stress. " > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; yes.... > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; but > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; such described entity.....in " constant state of stress " only > can > & gt; & amp;gt; observe similar described entities.... .. > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; nothing else ..... > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; ..... > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; cool down!..... > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; everything will be fine.... > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; one day..... > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; Marc > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; Ps: in reality, indeed, there aren't such imaginary > described > & gt; & amp;gt; stressed individual entities.... . > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; all there is.....is of one wonderful and perfect peace...... > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; in which nothing ever happen realy..... > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; except little words.....here & amp; amp; amp; there.... > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; little few actions..... .here & amp;amp;amp; there. ... > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; little memory running..... here & amp;amp;amp; there. ... > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; little..... > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; ..... > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; Bring your gang together. Do your thing. Find your > favourite > & gt; group at http://in.promos. / groups/ > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; > & gt; > & gt; > & gt; > & gt; From Chandigarh to Chennai - find friends all over India. Go > to http://in.promos. / groups/citygroup s/ > & gt; > > > > > From Chandigarh to Chennai - find friends all over India. Go to http://in.promos./groups/citygroups/ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 30, 2008 Report Share Posted May 30, 2008 Hi,The best word to explain and express the SELF (state of Nirvikalp Samadhi) is 'Silence' and the best way to live in the SELF is 'Complete Detachment'.Yes, i have also read the posts in which the essence was dropped. The discussion was ending up in an argument. In that case, a smile definately helps [and not laugh ) ]That is why ever since i joined this group, i have been saying that advaita is not for everybody.... and this is not a statement out of superiority complex nor due to my ego.I like this article written by Swami Sivananda:http://indiaspirituality.blogspot.com/2008/05/vedanta-is-living-experience.html or http://www.dlshq.org/discourse/may2008.htmSujal--- On Fri, 30/5/08, dennis_travis33 <dennis_travis33 wrote:dennis_travis33 <dennis_travis33 Re: "Now"Nisargadatta Date: Friday, 30 May, 2008, 3:54 AMNisargadatta, sujal <sujal_u > wrote: > > Hi, > > The language or the way of expression is is called as 'Asmat Prayog'. I dont know the exact meaning of 'Asmat' but 'Prayog' means 'attempt'. > > There are words like 'dive within', 'be merged' etc which looks like dual from surface. > The reason why the saints try to explain the non-dual concept in such a way is due to the fact that we, unknowingly, assume oueselves as body, mind, intellect, ego, etc. > > Our statements like 'I came 10 minutes earlier'. It goes without saying that in this case, we assume ourselves as body. I hope you get my point. > > So the process of undoing and neglecting all other than the SELF seems difficult for many people, eventhough it is the striaght path as gives clarity. > > This is the reason why the saints explain in this way. A person who is able to experience that is is different from the mind and the thoughts can only understand the process of undoing. > > The surface meaning (vachiarth) looks like dual, but the essence (lakshiarth) is the non-dual. > > Each word has a 'vachiarth' and a 'lakshiarth' .Following example is given by Swami Sukhbodhananda: > > > A person points a finger to the idol of Lord Krishna and says "This is a statue of Lord Krishna" > > In this case, the finger pointing towards the idol is called as 'vachiarth'. . It helps us to give direction. But we do not keep on looking at the tip of finger but look in the direction pointer by the finger. Thus we bypass the finger (as it has done it's work of giving direction) and look at the idol. This idol is the 'lakshiarth' . The finger is important but not the destination. The destination is the idol of lord Krishna. > > People try ot follow word by word and end up in rigidity and confusion.. > > Sujal Hello Sujal, yes, there are people who try to follow word by word....... scriptures are studied, word by word..... but the words ...all the words are of direction pointer only.... ...... many discussions were already going on in here.......during which people took messages.... .word by word..... words fights without end.... and then....after a while.....people get simply tired of such non- sense......and agree finally on some simple smile.... ....which can give endless more expression than books filled up with words.... Marc Ps: maybe it's in the nature of ignorance that there are fights (with onself)....in order to get peace.....one day > > > --- On Fri, 30/5/08, dennis_travis33 dennis_travis33@ ... wrote: > dennis_travis33 dennis_travis33@ .... > Re: "Now" > Nisargadatta > Friday, 30 May, 2008, 2:11 AM > > Nisargadatta, sujal sujal_u@ & gt; wrote: > & gt; > & gt; Hi Marc, > & gt; > & gt; In other verses Sri Ramana has said that for an ignorant person the > world is limited to the the (visible) 3 dimensional world, while for > a realised saint, the world is the substratum (or the source) of this > 3 dimensional world.. For a realised saint the world and his body is > unlimited i.e. it is nothing other than the SELF or brahman. > & gt; > & gt; .... and yes i think Sri Ramana is talking about the same 'SELF' > & gt; > & gt; AUM > & gt; > & gt; Sujal > > Hello Sujal, > > yes, the "body" of Ramana is.....unlimited > for a such "body".....there is nothing but SELF > > Marc > > & gt; > & gt; --- On Fri, 30/5/08, dennis_travis33 dennis_travis33@ ... wrote: > & gt; dennis_travis33 dennis_travis33@ ... > & gt; Re: "Now" > & gt; Nisargadatta > & gt; Friday, 30 May, 2008, 1:27 AM > & gt; > & gt; Nisargadatta, sujal sujal_u@ & amp;gt; wrote: > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; Hello Marc, > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; I think this verse from Ramana's 40 verses on reality > (truth) > & gt; suits your phylosophy. > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; "'The world is real.' 'No, it, is a mere illusory > appearance.' 'The > & gt; world is conscious.' 'No.' 'The world is happiness( i.e. it is > & gt; conscousness - existance - bliss).' 'No...' What use is it to > argue > & gt; thus? Leave this worldly vision (approach), (be introvert) > know > & gt; one's Self (know one's true nature), drop all notions of > duality > & gt; & amp;amp;amp; non-duality, without 'I' (egoless), this state of > self > & gt; realisation (ultimate truth) is universally accepted and > & gt; acknowledged. " verse No. 3 > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; I think this is what you are trying to express. > & gt; & amp;gt; Am i right? > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; AUM > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; Sujal > & gt; > & gt; Hello Sujal, > & gt; > & gt; .......reading this your message and words of Ramana.....i think > that > & gt; Ramana indeed is talking about same "Self" (true nature)..... and > so, > & gt; about an "egoless" view.....a relax & amp;amp; peaceful > view/reality. ....in > & gt; which what is called "the world" is of an appearent world ONLY > & gt; > & gt; Marc > & gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; --- On Thu, 29/5/08, dennis_travis33 dennis_travis33@ ... > wrote: > & gt; & amp;gt; dennis_travis33 dennis_travis33@ ... > & gt; & amp;gt; Re: "Now" > & gt; & amp;gt; Nisargadatta > & gt; & amp;gt; Thursday, 29 May, 2008, 11:50 PM > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; Nisargadatta@ . com, "toombaru2006" > & gt; lastrain@ . & amp;amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; wrote: > & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;amp;gt; The belief structure in which the conceptual > identified > & gt; entity > & gt; & amp;gt; finds itself is by nature in a > & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;amp;gt; constant state of stress. > & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;amp;gt; It is a highly evolved addendum that functions to > help the > & gt; organism > & gt; & amp;gt; survive whose > & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;amp;gt; contribution is fundamentally fear based. > & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;amp;gt; It adapts to the constant stress through an > intricate system > & gt; of > & gt; & amp;gt; compensatory adjustments. > & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;amp;gt; All of which occur within its own imagination. . > & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;amp;gt; One of its many ruses is the mentation that > involves what is > & gt; named > & gt; & amp;gt; the "now". > & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;amp;gt; In an attempt to make the stress tolerable... .it > imagines > & gt; & amp;gt; an "eternal now" and then > & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;amp;gt; imagines that it can somehow get to this magical > & gt; place.....and wile > & gt; & amp;gt; away its time......just > & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;amp;gt; drifting through the dream....... ..happy as a clam. > & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;amp;gt; It seems that very few of the phantoms are wired to > question > & gt; the > & gt; & amp;gt; whole idea of now....and > & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;amp;gt; even fewer to ask about the nature of the one that > seeks > & gt; refuge in > & gt; & amp;gt; it. > & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;amp;gt; toombaru > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; "The belief structure in which the conceptual identified > entity > & gt; finds > & gt; & amp;gt; itself is by nature in a > & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;amp;gt; constant state of stress." > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; yes.... > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; but > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; such described entity.....in "constant state of stress" only > can > & gt; & amp;gt; observe similar described entities.... .. > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; nothing else ...... > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; ...... > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; cool down!..... > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; everything will be fine.... > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; one day..... > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; Marc > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; Ps: in reality, indeed, there aren't such imaginary > described > & gt; & amp;gt; stressed individual entities.... . > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; all there is.....is of one wonderful and perfect peace...... > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; in which nothing ever happen realy..... > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; except little words.....here & amp; amp; amp; there.... > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; little few actions..... .here & amp;amp; amp; there. ... > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; little memory running..... here & amp;amp; amp; there. ... > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; little...... > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; ...... > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; Bring your gang together. Do your thing. Find your > favourite > & gt; group at http://in.promos. / groups/ > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; > & gt; > & gt; > & gt; > & gt; From Chandigarh to Chennai - find friends all over India. Go > to http://in.promos. / groups/citygroup s/ > & gt; > > > > > From Chandigarh to Chennai - find friends all over India. Go to http://in.promos. / groups/citygroup s/ > Bring your gang together. Do your thing.. Find your favourite Group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 30, 2008 Report Share Posted May 30, 2008 Nisargadatta , sujal <sujal_u wrote: > > Hi, > > The best word to explain and express the SELF (state of Nirvikalp Samadhi) is 'Silence' and the best way to live in the SELF is 'Complete Detachment'. > > Yes, i have also read the posts in which the essence was dropped. The discussion was ending up in an argument. > > In that case, a smile definately helps [and not laugh ) ] > > That is why ever since i joined this group, i have been saying that advaita is not for everybody. > > .... and this is not a statement out of superiority complex nor due to my ego. > > I like this article written by Swami Sivananda: > > http://indiaspirituality.blogspot.com/2008/05/vedanta-is-living- experience.html > >  or > > http://www.dlshq.org/discourse/may2008.htm > > Sujal > Hello Sujal, nice articles.....true, yes i mean, Vedanta & Yoga got great success story worldwide.....getting some " instant enlightenment " .....without any effort......here & now......etc.... declaring to appearing " others " that he/she is God ....bla bla.... but at least....for some first " worldwide " steps in Vedanta......people think little more about the strange & mysterious power called " God " .....living behind some clouds.....directing everybody......making selections of hell & heaven....etc.....bla bla... ...... as for example....also meditation has an important role in such philosophy....... but most of people who are into " Yoga " ....even don't know that Yoga is mainly a philosophy..... they relate it to some sports....having some stretching, few physical exercises......(getting a slave of own imaginary " beautiful " body).....bla bla.... ....... Vedanta is realy not the right philosophy for restless minds..... Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 30, 2008 Report Share Posted May 30, 2008 Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > <lastrain@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The belief structure in which the conceptual identified > > entity > > > > > > finds itself is by nature in a > > > > > > > constant state of stress. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Toomb, > > > > > > > > > > > > there is no such thing as an identified entity. > > > > > > > > > > > > There is only memory which is accompanied by more or less > > strong > > > > > > emotions. > > > > > > > > > > > > If memory is causing an emotion it is called > identification, > > if > > > > it > > > > > > doesn't cause any emotion it is just called memory. > > > > > > > > > > > > And - there is no owner of memory, there is just memory. > And > > > > > > therefore there is also no identified entity. No matter if > > you > > > > call > > > > > > it conceptual identified or non-conceptual identified. > > > > > > > > > > > > To recapitulate: There exists no entity which is > identifying > > with > > > > > > something or which is identified with it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner, > > > > > > > > > > I agree. > > > > > > > > > > There is no such thing as a whirlpool......and yet there is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't understand this answer, Toomb, > > > > > > > > Do you want to say there is an identified self and yet there > > isn't ? > > > > > > > > > Yes. > > > > > > > > > There is river......and yet there isn't. > > > > > > What happens to a river when it flows into the ocean? > > > > > > There is a mountain.....and yet there isn't. > > > > > > Where does the mountain end and the valley begin. > > > > > > There is a lap...untill you stand up. > > > > > > There is a fist....untill you open your hand. > > > > > > Where did the fist go? > > > > > > There is a self.....untill it is seen for what it is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As I just before have expained there is no such a thing as a > > self, > > > > call it being identified or not being identified. > > > > > > > > There is only memory causing more or less strong physical > > sensations > > > > which are called emotions - that's all. > > > > > > > > > .......and yet........... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And this whole memory structure we call the " self " because it > is > > > > representing our biography, our subjectivity, one's world, > > society > > > > etc. All that we call the " Now " or Maharaj was calling it > the " I > > am " . > > > > > > > > The Now, the I-am, the Being and Consciousness is one and the > > same > > > > thing, it just got different names. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The content of consciousness is searching within the content of > > consciousness for > > > consciousness itself. > > > > > > No, Toomb, > > > > Something is searching and the result of that search eventually > will > > get made conscious but it is not consciousness itself which is > > searching. > > > > Consciousness IS !!! memory and memory isn't searching anything. > > > > Consciousness in now way is an activity, an active agent which can > do > > or plan or react. > > > > Please see: When memory neurons in the brain start firing then > this > > firing is called consciousness, but it is and remains an activity > of > > memory. > > > > One has to say good bye to that idea traded since millennia that > > consciousness is a mirror and that this mirror can get wiped clean - > > > this is all rubbish and nonsense. > > > > And there is also no witness, no owner of consciousness. > > > > Werner > > > > ....yes Werner.... > > say good night to imaginary toombaru......traded all the time > long.......as your mirror that you are trying hard to wipe clean...... > > this is, indeed, all nonsense > > .... > > there is no toombaru.....just like there is no Marc, no Werner.... > > ...... > > there is only consciousness, for real.....indeed, of no owner....and > therefore....infinite, timeless, formless, changless > > > Marc > .....that includes and embraces toombaru, Marc and Werner. :-) t. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 30, 2008 Report Share Posted May 30, 2008 > > AUM > > > > Sujal > > > Hello Sujal, > > > yes, the " body " of Ramana is.....unlimited > for a such " body " .....there is nothing but SELF > > Marc > > > Ramana was a talking head. The realization is ever present. It IS the Ever Presence. t. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 30, 2008 Report Share Posted May 30, 2008 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > > <lastrain@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The belief structure in which the conceptual identified > > > entity > > > > > > > finds itself is by nature in a > > > > > > > > constant state of stress. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Toomb, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there is no such thing as an identified entity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is only memory which is accompanied by more or less > > > strong > > > > > > > emotions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If memory is causing an emotion it is called > > identification, > > > if > > > > > it > > > > > > > doesn't cause any emotion it is just called memory. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And - there is no owner of memory, there is just memory. > > And > > > > > > > therefore there is also no identified entity. No matter if > > > you > > > > > call > > > > > > > it conceptual identified or non-conceptual identified. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To recapitulate: There exists no entity which is > > identifying > > > with > > > > > > > something or which is identified with it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner, > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree. > > > > > > > > > > > > There is no such thing as a whirlpool......and yet there is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't understand this answer, Toomb, > > > > > > > > > > Do you want to say there is an identified self and yet there > > > isn't ? > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes. > > > > > > > > > > > > There is river......and yet there isn't. > > > > > > > > What happens to a river when it flows into the ocean? > > > > > > > > There is a mountain.....and yet there isn't. > > > > > > > > Where does the mountain end and the valley begin. > > > > > > > > There is a lap...untill you stand up. > > > > > > > > There is a fist....untill you open your hand. > > > > > > > > Where did the fist go? > > > > > > > > There is a self.....untill it is seen for what it is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As I just before have expained there is no such a thing as a > > > self, > > > > > call it being identified or not being identified. > > > > > > > > > > There is only memory causing more or less strong physical > > > sensations > > > > > which are called emotions - that's all. > > > > > > > > > > > > .......and yet........... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And this whole memory structure we call the " self " because it > > is > > > > > representing our biography, our subjectivity, one's world, > > > society > > > > > etc. All that we call the " Now " or Maharaj was calling it > > the " I > > > am " . > > > > > > > > > > The Now, the I-am, the Being and Consciousness is one and the > > > same > > > > > thing, it just got different names. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The content of consciousness is searching within the content of > > > consciousness for > > > > consciousness itself. > > > > > > > > > No, Toomb, > > > > > > Something is searching and the result of that search eventually > > will > > > get made conscious but it is not consciousness itself which is > > > searching. > > > > > > Consciousness IS !!! memory and memory isn't searching anything. > > > > > > Consciousness in now way is an activity, an active agent which can > > do > > > or plan or react. > > > > > > Please see: When memory neurons in the brain start firing then > > this > > > firing is called consciousness, but it is and remains an activity > > of > > > memory. > > > > > > One has to say good bye to that idea traded since millennia that > > > consciousness is a mirror and that this mirror can get wiped clean - > > > > > this is all rubbish and nonsense. > > > > > > And there is also no witness, no owner of consciousness. > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > ....yes Werner.... > > > > say good night to imaginary toombaru......traded all the time > > long.......as your mirror that you are trying hard to wipe clean...... > > > > this is, indeed, all nonsense > > > > .... > > > > there is no toombaru.....just like there is no Marc, no Werner.... > > > > ...... > > > > there is only consciousness, for real.....indeed, of no owner....and > > therefore....infinite, timeless, formless, changless > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > ....that includes and embraces toombaru, Marc and Werner. > > > :-) > > > t. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 30, 2008 Report Share Posted May 30, 2008 Nisargadatta , sujal <sujal_u wrote: > > Hi, > > The language or the way of expression is is called as 'Asmat Prayog'. I dont know the exact meaning of 'Asmat' but 'Prayog' means 'attempt'. > > There are words like 'dive within', 'be merged' etc which looks like dual from surface. > The reason why the saints try to explain the non-dual concept in such a way is due to the fact that we, unknowingly, assume oueselves as body, mind, intellect, ego, etc. Hi sujai, " We " do not assume. " We " are the assumption. > > Our statements like 'I came 10 minutes earlier'. It goes without saying that in this case, we assume ourselves as body. I hope you get my point. > > So the process of undoing and neglecting all other than the SELF seems difficult for many people, eventhough it is the striaght path as gives clarity. There is no path for an assumption that will lead to what it imagines to be its source. There are no enlightened shadows. > > This is the reason why the saints explain in this way. A person who is able to experience that is is different from the mind and the thoughts can only understand the process of undoing. > > The surface meaning (vachiarth) looks like dual, but the essence (lakshiarth) is the non- dual. > > Each word has a 'vachiarth' and a 'lakshiarth'.Following example is given by Swami Sukhbodhananda: > > > A person points a finger to the idol of Lord Krishna and says " This is a statue of Lord Krishna " > > In this case, the finger pointing towards the idol is called as 'vachiarth'.. It helps us to give direction. At the North Pole.....all needles point South. But we do not keep on looking at the tip of finger but look in the direction pointer by the finger. Thus we bypass the finger (as it has done it's work of giving direction) and look at the idol. This idol is the 'lakshiarth'. The finger is important but not the destination. The destination is the idol of lord Krishna. You are always standing on both sides of the river......one side is just a little further away. > > People try to follow word by word and end up in rigidity and confusion.. > > Sujal > People are the confusion. toombaru > > --- On Fri, 30/5/08, dennis_travis33 dennis_travis33 wrote: > dennis_travis33 dennis_travis33 > Re: " Now " > Nisargadatta > Friday, 30 May, 2008, 2:11 AM > > Nisargadatta, sujal sujal_u@ & gt; wrote: > & gt; > & gt; Hi Marc, > & gt; > & gt; In other verses Sri Ramana has said that for an ignorant person the > world is limited to the the (visible) 3 dimensional world, while for > a realised saint, the world is the substratum (or the source) of this > 3 dimensional world. For a realised saint the world and his body is > unlimited i.e. it is nothing other than the SELF or brahman. > & gt; > & gt; .... and yes i think Sri Ramana is talking about the same 'SELF' > & gt; > & gt; AUM > & gt; > & gt; Sujal > > Hello Sujal, > > yes, the " body " of Ramana is.....unlimited > for a such " body " .....there is nothing but SELF > > Marc > > & gt; > & gt; --- On Fri, 30/5/08, dennis_travis33 dennis_travis33@ ... wrote: > & gt; dennis_travis33 dennis_travis33@ ... > & gt; Re: " Now " > & gt; Nisargadatta > & gt; Friday, 30 May, 2008, 1:27 AM > & gt; > & gt; Nisargadatta, sujal sujal_u@ & amp;gt; wrote: > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; Hello Marc, > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; I think this verse from Ramana's 40 verses on reality > (truth) > & gt; suits your phylosophy. > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; " 'The world is real.' 'No, it, is a mere illusory > appearance.' 'The > & gt; world is conscious.' 'No.' 'The world is happiness( i.e. it is > & gt; conscousness - existance - bliss).' 'No...' What use is it to > argue > & gt; thus? Leave this worldly vision (approach), (be introvert) > know > & gt; one's Self (know one's true nature), drop all notions of > duality > & gt; & amp;amp;amp; non-duality, without 'I' (egoless), this state of > self > & gt; realisation (ultimate truth) is universally accepted and > & gt; acknowledged. " verse No. 3 > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; I think this is what you are trying to express. > & gt; & amp;gt; Am i right? > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; AUM > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; Sujal > & gt; > & gt; Hello Sujal, > & gt; > & gt; .......reading this your message and words of Ramana.....i think > that > & gt; Ramana indeed is talking about same " Self " (true nature)..... and > so, > & gt; about an " egoless " view.....a relax & amp;amp;peaceful > view/reality. ....in > & gt; which what is called " the world " is of an appearent world ONLY > & gt; > & gt; Marc > & gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; --- On Thu, 29/5/08, dennis_travis33 dennis_travis33@ ... > wrote: > & gt; & amp;gt; dennis_travis33 dennis_travis33@ ... > & gt; & amp;gt; Re: " Now " > & gt; & amp;gt; Nisargadatta > & gt; & amp;gt; Thursday, 29 May, 2008, 11:50 PM > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; Nisargadatta, " toombaru2006 " > & gt; lastrain@ . & amp;amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; wrote: > & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;amp;gt; The belief structure in which the conceptual > identified > & gt; entity > & gt; & amp;gt; finds itself is by nature in a > & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;amp;gt; constant state of stress. > & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;amp;gt; It is a highly evolved addendum that functions to > help the > & gt; organism > & gt; & amp;gt; survive whose > & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;amp;gt; contribution is fundamentally fear based. > & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;amp;gt; It adapts to the constant stress through an > intricate system > & gt; of > & gt; & amp;gt; compensatory adjustments. > & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;amp;gt; All of which occur within its own imagination.. > & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;amp;gt; One of its many ruses is the mentation that > involves what is > & gt; named > & gt; & amp;gt; the " now " . > & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;amp;gt; In an attempt to make the stress tolerable... ..it > imagines > & gt; & amp;gt; an " eternal now " and then > & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;amp;gt; imagines that it can somehow get to this magical > & gt; place.....and wile > & gt; & amp;gt; away its time......just > & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;amp;gt; drifting through the dream....... ..happy as a clam. > & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;amp;gt; It seems that very few of the phantoms are wired to > question > & gt; the > & gt; & amp;gt; whole idea of now....and > & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;amp;gt; even fewer to ask about the nature of the one that > seeks > & gt; refuge in > & gt; & amp;gt; it. > & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;amp;gt; toombaru > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; " The belief structure in which the conceptual identified > entity > & gt; finds > & gt; & amp;gt; itself is by nature in a > & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;amp;gt; constant state of stress. " > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; yes.... > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; but > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; such described entity.....in " constant state of stress " only > can > & gt; & amp;gt; observe similar described entities.... .. > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; nothing else ..... > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; ..... > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; cool down!..... > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; everything will be fine.... > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; one day..... > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; Marc > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; Ps: in reality, indeed, there aren't such imaginary > described > & gt; & amp;gt; stressed individual entities.... . > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; all there is.....is of one wonderful and perfect peace...... > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; in which nothing ever happen realy..... > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; except little words.....here & amp; amp; amp; there.... > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; little few actions..... .here & amp;amp;amp; there. ... > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; little memory running..... here & amp;amp;amp; there. ... > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; little..... > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; ..... > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; & amp;gt; Bring your gang together. Do your thing. Find your > favourite > & gt; group at http://in.promos. / groups/ > & gt; & amp;gt; > & gt; > & gt; > & gt; > & gt; > & gt; From Chandigarh to Chennai - find friends all over India. Go > to http://in.promos. / groups/citygroup s/ > & gt; > > > > > From Chandigarh to Chennai - find friends all over India. Go to http://in.promos./groups/citygroups/ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 30, 2008 Report Share Posted May 30, 2008 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > > > > AUM > > > > > > Sujal > > > > > > Hello Sujal, > > > > > > yes, the " body " of Ramana is.....unlimited > > for a such " body " .....there is nothing but SELF > > > > Marc > > > > Ramana was a talking head. > > The realization is ever present. > > It IS the Ever Presence. > > > > > t. Ramana himself.....maybe never made/wished anything.....what people wanted him to be....or not to be.... He talked surely less confusing words than toombaru as for example...... Realization is of heavy mind-fiction for the ignorant one..... Realization is of no subject for the realized one.... Realization is realization....yes, it is the ever presense Marc > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 30, 2008 Report Share Posted May 30, 2008 Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >T The content of consciousness is searching within the content of > > consciousness for > > > consciousness itself. > > > > > > No, Toomb, > > > > Something is searching and the result of that search eventually will > > get made conscious but it is not consciousness itself which is > > searching. > > > > Consciousness IS !!! memory and memory isn't searching anything. > > > > Consciousness in now way is an activity, an active agent which can do > > or plan or react. > > > > Please see: When memory neurons in the brain start firing then this > > firing is called consciousness, but it is and remains an activity of > > memory. > > > > One has to say good bye to that idea traded since millennia that > > consciousness is a mirror and that this mirror can get wiped clean - > > this is all rubbish and nonsense. > > > > And there is also no witness, no owner of consciousness. > > > > Werner > > > P: I think much confusion arises when we try to > isolate one function of the brain from others > and give it a primary role. If we affirm we see > only with the vision center, we neglect to > consider how memory, and the speech center, > and the emotional center shape our vision. It > will be like saying that your TV image is > formed only by the screen. In fact, dozens of > components other than the screen contribute > to form the image. > > The brain functions as one whole, and represents > itself to itself by abstracting a perceiver from > its perceptions. This representation is called > self, or Pete, or Werner, but is not always > present. The representation can not notice > its own absence, but notices the fleeting > nature of the perceptions from which it > gets its sense of being. The impermanence > of the sensations, which create its self-image > is a source of angst for the brain. > > As long, as the brain yearns for permanency > there will be angst. It's only when it accepts > impermanency that peace and silence comes. > > Pete > What you said opens a window into the mystery.........and in there seen.....many wonderful things. :-) t. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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