Guest guest Posted June 19, 2008 Report Share Posted June 19, 2008 197. Gul and Shirin Byramjee, two Parsi ladies of Ahmedabad, arrived this day. They spoke at night to Maharshi: " Bhagavan! We have been spiritually inclined from our childhood. We have read several books on philosophy and are attracted by Vedanta. So we read the Upanishads, Yoga Vasishta, Bhagavad Gita etc. We try to meditate, but there is no progress in our meditation. We do not understand how to realise. Can you kindly help us towards realisation?'' M.: How do you meditate? D.: I begin to ask myself " Who am I?'', eliminate body as not 'I', the breath as not 'I', the mind as not 'I' and I am not able to proceed further. M.: Well, that is so far as the intellect goes. Your process is only intellectual. Indeed, all the scriptures mention the process only to guide the seeker to know the Truth. The Truth cannot be directly pointed out. Hence this intellectual process. You see, the one who eliminates all the not I cannot eliminate the 'I'. To say 'I am not this' or 'I am that' there must be the 'I'. This 'I' is only the ego or the 'I'-thought. After the rising up of this 'I'-thought all other thoughts arise. The 'I'-thought is therefore the root-thought. If the root is pulled out all others are at the same time uprooted. Therefore seek the root 'I', question yourself " Who am I?''; find out its source. Then all these will vanish and the pure Self will remain ever. D.: How to do it? M.: The 'I' is always there - in deep sleep, in dream and in wakefulness. The one in sleep is the same as that who now speaks. There is always the feeling of 'I'. Otherwise do you deny your existence? You do not. You say 'I am'. Find out who is. D.: Even so, I do not understand. 'I', you say, is the wrong 'I' now. How to eliminate this wrong 'I'? M.: You need not eliminate the wrong 'I'. How can 'I' eliminate itself? - All that you need do is to find out its origin and abide there. Your efforts can extend only thus far. Then the Beyond will take care of itself. You are helpless there. No effort can reach it. D.: If 'I' am always-here and now, why do I not feel so? M.: That is it. Why says it is not felt? Does the real 'I' say it or the false 'I'? Examine it. You will find it as the wrong 'I'. The wrong 'I' is the obstruction. It has to be removed in order that the true 'I' may not be hidden. The feeling that I have not realised is the obstruction to realisation. In fact it is already realised; there is nothing more to be realised. Otherwise, the realisation will be new; it has not existed so far, it must take place hereafter. What is born will also die. If realisation be not eternal it is not worth having. Therefore what we seek is not that which must happen afresh. It is only that which is eternal but not now known due to obstructions; it is that we seek. All that we need do is to remove the obstruction. That which is eternal is not known to be so because of ignorance. Ignorance is the obstruction. Get over this ignorance and all will be well. The ignorance is identical with the 'I'-thought. Find its source and it will vanish. The 'I'-thought is like a spirit which, although not palpable, rises up automatically with the body, flourishes and disappears with it. The body-consciousness is the wrong 'I'. Give up this body-consciousness. It is done by seeking the source 'I'. The body does not say 'I am'. It is you who say, 'I am the body!' Find out who this 'I' is. Seeking its source it will vanish. D.: Then, will there be bliss? M.: Bliss is coeval with Being-Consciousness. All the arguments relating to the eternal Being of that Bliss apply to Bliss also. Your nature is Bliss. Ignorance is not hiding that Bliss. Remove the ignorance for Bliss to be freed. D.: Should we not find out the ultimate reality of the world, individual and God? M.: These are all conceptions of the 'I'. They arise only after the advent of the 'I'-thought. Did you think of them in your deep sleep? You existed in deep sleep and the same you are now speaking. If they be real should they not be in your sleep also? They are only dependent upon the 'I'-thought. Again does the world tell you 'I am the world'? Does the body say 'I am body'? You say, " This is the world'', " this is body'' and so on. So these are only your conceptions. Find out who you are and there will be an end of all your doubts. D.: What becomes of the body after realisation? Does it exist or not? We see realised beings acting like others. M.: This question need not arise now. Let it be asked after realisation, if need be. As for the realised beings let them take care of themselves. Why do you worry about them? In fact, after realisation the body and all else will not appear different from the Self. D.: Being always Being-Consciousness-Bliss, why does God place us in difficulties? Why did He create us? M.: Does God come and tell you that He has placed you in difficulties? It is you who say so. It is again the wrong 'I'. If that disappears there will be no one to say that God created this or that. That which is does not even say 'I am'. For, does any doubt rise 'I am not'? Only in such a case should one be reminding oneself 'I am a man'. One does not. On the other hand, if a doubt arises whether he is a cow or a buffalo he has to remind himself that he is not a cow, etc., but 'I am a man'. This would never happen. Similarly with one's own existence and realisation. 23rd January, 1937 http://www.beezone.com/Ramana/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 19, 2008 Report Share Posted June 19, 2008 Nisargadatta , "Werner Woehr" <wwoehr wrote: 197. Gul and Shirin Byramjee, two Parsi ladies of Ahmedabad, arrived this day. They spoke at night to Maharshi: "Bhagavan! We have been spiritually inclined from our childhood. We have read several books on philosophy and are attracted by Vedanta. So we read the Upanishads, Yoga Vasishta, Bhagavad Gita etc. We try to meditate, but there is no progress in our meditation. We do not understand how to realise. Can you kindly help us towards realisation?'' M.: How do you meditate? D.: I begin to ask myself "Who am I?'', eliminate body as not 'I', the breath as not 'I', the mind as not 'I' and I am not able to proceed further. M.: Well, that is so far as the intellect goes. Your process is only intellectual. Indeed, all the scriptures mention the process only to guide the seeker to know the Truth. The Truth cannot be directly pointed out. Hence this intellectual process. You see, the one who eliminates all the not I cannot eliminate the 'I'. To say 'I am not this' or 'I am that' there must be the 'I'. This 'I' is only the ego or the 'I'-thought. After the rising up of this 'I'-thought all other thoughts arise. The 'I'-thought is therefore the root-thought. If the root is pulled out all others are at the same time uprooted. Therefore seek the root 'I', question yourself "Who am I?''; find out its source. Then all these will vanish and the pure Self will remain ever. D.: How to do it? M.: The 'I' is always there - in deep sleep, in dream and in wakefulness. The one in sleep is the same as that who now speaks. There is always the feeling of 'I'. Otherwise do you deny your existence? You do not. You say 'I am'. Find out who is. D.: Even so, I do not understand. 'I', you say, is the wrong 'I' now. How to eliminate this wrong 'I'? M.: You need not eliminate the wrong 'I'. How can 'I' eliminate itself? - All that you need do is to find out its origin and abide there. Your efforts can extend only thus far. Then the Beyond will take care of itself. You are helpless there. No effort can reach it. D.: If 'I' am always-here and now, why do I not feel so? M.: That is it. Why says it is not felt? Does the real 'I' say it or the false 'I'? Examine it. You will find it as the wrong 'I'. The wrong 'I' is the obstruction. It has to be removed in order that the true 'I' may not be hidden. The feeling that I have not realised is the obstruction to realisation. In fact it is already realised; there is nothing more to be realised. Otherwise, the realisation will be new; it has not existed so far, it must take place hereafter. What is born will also die. If realisation be not eternal it is not worth having. Therefore what we seek is not that which must happen afresh. It is only that which is eternal but not now known due to obstructions; it is that we seek. All that we need do is to remove the obstruction. That which is eternal is not known to be so because of ignorance. Ignorance is the obstruction. Get over this ignorance and all will be well. The ignorance is identical with the 'I'-thought. Find its source and it will vanish. The 'I'-thought is like a spirit which, although not palpable, rises up automatically with the body, flourishes and disappears with it. The body-consciousness is the wrong 'I'. Give up this body-consciousness. It is done by seeking the source 'I'. The body does not say 'I am'. It is you who say, 'I am the body!' Find out who this 'I' is. Seeking its source it will vanish. D.: Then, will there be bliss? M.: Bliss is coeval with Being-Consciousness. All the arguments relating to the eternal Being of that Bliss apply to Bliss also. Your nature is Bliss. Ignorance is not hiding that Bliss. Remove the ignorance for Bliss to be freed. D.: Should we not find out the ultimate reality of the world, individual and God? M.: These are all conceptions of the 'I'. They arise only after the advent of the 'I'-thought. Did you think of them in your deep sleep? You existed in deep sleep and the same you are now speaking. If they be real should they not be in your sleep also? They are only dependent upon the 'I'-thought. Again does the world tell you 'I am the world'? Does the body say 'I am body'? You say, "This is the world'', "this is body'' and so on. So these are only your conceptions. Find out who you are and there will be an end of all your doubts. D.: What becomes of the body after realisation? Does it exist or not? We see realised beings acting like others. M.: This question need not arise now. Let it be asked after realisation, if need be. As for the realised beings let them take care of themselves. Why do you worry about them? In fact, after realisation the body and all else will not appear different from the Self. D.: Being always Being-Consciousness-Bliss, why does God place us in difficulties? Why did He create us? M.: Does God come and tell you that He has placed you in difficulties? It is you who say so. It is again the wrong 'I'. If that disappears there will be no one to say that God created this or that. That which is does not even say 'I am'. For, does any doubt rise 'I am not'? Only in such a case should one be reminding oneself 'I am a man'. One does not. On the other hand, if a doubt arises whether he is a cow or a buffalo he has to remind himself that he is not a cow, etc., but 'I am a man'. This would never happen. Similarly with one's own existence and realisation. 23rd January, 1937 > > http://www.beezone.com/Ramana/ -=-=-=-=-=- thanks for posting this, I'll post it elsewhere. Nisargadatta: ...I talk about your true nature and your true nature is the sense of presence you have, this consciousness. ..... This sense of presence, this consciousness, is it not prior to anything else? ...... The sense of presence does not need any activity of the mind to know that you are present. ..... The sense of presence, which has come spontaneously, will leave spontaneously. There is no individual except through identification with the body. ..... Find out how this consciousness has arisen, the source of the consciousness. .... Go within. Your normal inclination is to come out through the senses and see the world. Now reverse: "I am not the body, I am not the mind, I am not the senses." Then you are stabilized in consciousness. After that, all further things happen automatically. ..... Era Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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