Guest guest Posted July 19, 2008 Report Share Posted July 19, 2008 My father lived to be 89. During his last year of live, due to advanced alzheimer, when I came to visit there was no smile, no happiness in his face, no love in his eyes. He always asked me who I was, and when I told him, this information did not elicit love. It was just as if I have said I was the mailman bringing a gift. He seemed to have been transported to his childhood, and often asked about his parents. His memories appeared in disconnected flashes, and his conversation made no sense. " Mom should bake some cookies.. the TV is broken... Why is the bus late? Without memories we neither love, nor hate, nor suffer for loses we don't recall. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2008 Report Share Posted July 19, 2008 Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6 wrote: > > My father lived to be 89. During his last > year of live, due to advanced alzheimer, > when I came to visit there was no smile, > no happiness in his face, no love in his > eyes. He always asked me who I was, and when > I told him, this information did not elicit > love. It was just as if I have said I was > the mailman bringing a gift. > > He seemed to have been transported to his > childhood, and often asked about his parents. > > His memories appeared in disconnected flashes, > and his conversation made no sense. " Mom > should bake some cookies.. the TV is broken... > Why is the bus late? > > Without memories we neither love, nor hate, > nor suffer for loses we don't recall. > > Pete > ....if we give memories the crown of a king... we will win everything...but our heart... ....and from that day on... we will only be looking for it everywhere and in everything... ....iietsa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2008 Report Share Posted July 19, 2008 Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6 wrote: > > My father lived to be 89. During his last > year of live, due to advanced alzheimer, > when I came to visit there was no smile, > no happiness in his face, no love in his > eyes. He always asked me who I was, and when > I told him, this information did not elicit > love. It was just as if I have said I was > the mailman bringing a gift. > > He seemed to have been transported to his > childhood, and often asked about his parents. > > His memories appeared in disconnected flashes, > and his conversation made no sense. " Mom > should bake some cookies.. the TV is broken... > Why is the bus late? > > Without memories we neither love, nor hate, > nor suffer for loses we don't recall. > > Pete > Thanks, Pete, Very interesting and worth to ponder. Many years ago I have read somewhere that what we love we protect. And we also can see it the other way round, what we protect we love. What is that we protect, what is signalling us to be worth to get protected ? Werner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2008 Report Share Posted July 19, 2008 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote: > > > > My father lived to be 89. During his last > > year of live, due to advanced alzheimer, > > when I came to visit there was no smile, > > no happiness in his face, no love in his > > eyes. He always asked me who I was, and when > > I told him, this information did not elicit > > love. It was just as if I have said I was > > the mailman bringing a gift. > > > > He seemed to have been transported to his > > childhood, and often asked about his parents. > > > > His memories appeared in disconnected flashes, > > and his conversation made no sense. " Mom > > should bake some cookies.. the TV is broken... > > Why is the bus late? > > > > Without memories we neither love, nor hate, > > nor suffer for loses we don't recall. > > > > Pete > > > > > Thanks, Pete, > > Very interesting and worth to ponder. > > Many years ago I have read somewhere that what we love we protect. > And we also can see it the other way round, what we protect we love. > > What is that we protect, what is signalling us to be worth to get > protected ? > > Werner P: Can you try to protect anything you don't remember? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2008 Report Share Posted July 19, 2008 Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote: > > > > > > My father lived to be 89. During his last > > > year of live, due to advanced alzheimer, > > > when I came to visit there was no smile, > > > no happiness in his face, no love in his > > > eyes. He always asked me who I was, and when > > > I told him, this information did not elicit > > > love. It was just as if I have said I was > > > the mailman bringing a gift. > > > > > > He seemed to have been transported to his > > > childhood, and often asked about his parents. > > > > > > His memories appeared in disconnected flashes, > > > and his conversation made no sense. " Mom > > > should bake some cookies.. the TV is broken... > > > Why is the bus late? > > > > > > Without memories we neither love, nor hate, > > > nor suffer for loses we don't recall. > > > > > > Pete > > > > > > > > > Thanks, Pete, > > > > Very interesting and worth to ponder. > > > > Many years ago I have read somewhere that what we love we protect. > > And we also can see it the other way round, what we protect we love. > > > > What is that we protect, what is signalling us to be worth to get > > protected ? > > > > Werner > > P: Can you try to protect anything you don't remember? > > > Surely not, Pete, But that was not my question. We remember many things and events and again forget them without any impuls to protect them, without any love springing from them. But some of those remembrances we want to protect like a blossom never to wither and never to leave us. Werner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2008 Report Share Posted July 20, 2008 Without memories we can not love? No, love is not dependant on memory. Love is of the present...not of the past (memory). Love is our own nature...if there truly were no memories and the mind was still...then there would be only love (there would be no other). Namaste, ~ Eric Putkonen http://www.awaken2life.org Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6 wrote: > > My father lived to be 89. During his last > year of live, due to advanced alzheimer, > when I came to visit there was no smile, > no happiness in his face, no love in his > eyes. He always asked me who I was, and when > I told him, this information did not elicit > love. It was just as if I have said I was > the mailman bringing a gift. > > He seemed to have been transported to his > childhood, and often asked about his parents. > > His memories appeared in disconnected flashes, > and his conversation made no sense. " Mom > should bake some cookies.. the TV is broken... > Why is the bus late? > > Without memories we neither love, nor hate, > nor suffer for loses we don't recall. > > Pete > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2008 Report Share Posted July 20, 2008 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote: > > > > > > > > My father lived to be 89. During his last > > > > year of live, due to advanced alzheimer, > > > > when I came to visit there was no smile, > > > > no happiness in his face, no love in his > > > > eyes. He always asked me who I was, and when > > > > I told him, this information did not elicit > > > > love. It was just as if I have said I was > > > > the mailman bringing a gift. > > > > > > > > He seemed to have been transported to his > > > > childhood, and often asked about his parents. > > > > > > > > His memories appeared in disconnected flashes, > > > > and his conversation made no sense. " Mom > > > > should bake some cookies.. the TV is broken... > > > > Why is the bus late? > > > > > > > > Without memories we neither love, nor hate, > > > > nor suffer for loses we don't recall. > > > > > > > > Pete > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, Pete, > > > > > > Very interesting and worth to ponder. > > > > > > Many years ago I have read somewhere that what we love we > protect. > > > And we also can see it the other way round, what we protect we > love. > > > > > > What is that we protect, what is signalling us to be worth to get > > > protected ? > > > > > > Werner > > > > P: Can you try to protect anything you don't remember? > > > > > > > > W: Surely not, Pete, > > But that was not my question. > > We remember many things and events and again forget them without any > impuls to protect them, without any love springing from them. P: Thanks, for asking me to clarify my statement. What I wrote is that love cannot exist without memories, that doesn't mean the inverse is true. There can be memories that doesn't provoke love. It's like saying mosquito larvae can't live without a pool of water, that of course, doesn't mean that every pool of water has larvae in it. > >W: But some of those remembrances we want to protect like a blossom > never to wither and never to leave us. P: True, the evolutionary function of love in animals is to protect what they love: their offspring, their territory, their own lives. Humans can make an intellectual decision to protect without loving someone, like a police officer will protect you if you are being attacked in his presence, without the need to feel love for you. That's what concepts like duty do. So love can be viewed as the hormone who triggers protection in animals and also trust, and belief in humans. > > Werner > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2008 Report Share Posted July 20, 2008 Nisargadatta , " Eric Putkonen " <eputkonen wrote: > > Without memories we can not love? > > No, love is not dependant on memory. Love is of the present...not of > the past (memory). Love is our own nature...if there truly were no > memories and the mind was still...then there would be only love > (there would be no other). > Eric, Your view of love is idealistic and rather esorteric. Go on day-dreaming. Werner > Namaste, > > ~ Eric Putkonen > http://www.awaken2life.org > > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote: > > > > My father lived to be 89. During his last > > year of live, due to advanced alzheimer, > > when I came to visit there was no smile, > > no happiness in his face, no love in his > > eyes. He always asked me who I was, and when > > I told him, this information did not elicit > > love. It was just as if I have said I was > > the mailman bringing a gift. > > > > He seemed to have been transported to his > > childhood, and often asked about his parents. > > > > His memories appeared in disconnected flashes, > > and his conversation made no sense. " Mom > > should bake some cookies.. the TV is broken... > > Why is the bus late? > > > > Without memories we neither love, nor hate, > > nor suffer for loses we don't recall. > > > > Pete > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2008 Report Share Posted July 21, 2008 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Eric Putkonen " <eputkonen@> > wrote: > > > > Without memories we can not love? > > > > No, love is not dependant on memory. Love is of the present...not > of > > the past (memory). Love is our own nature...if there truly were no > > memories and the mind was still...then there would be only love > > (there would be no other). > > > > > Eric, > > Your view of love is idealistic and rather esorteric. > > Go on day-dreaming. > > Werner that's childish. and rather idealistic too. maybe it's 'esorteric' too... whatever the hell that means. it's just NOT...very clever at all. ..b b.b. > > Namaste, > > > > ~ Eric Putkonen > > http://www.awaken2life.org > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote: > > > > > > My father lived to be 89. During his last > > > year of live, due to advanced alzheimer, > > > when I came to visit there was no smile, > > > no happiness in his face, no love in his > > > eyes. He always asked me who I was, and when > > > I told him, this information did not elicit > > > love. It was just as if I have said I was > > > the mailman bringing a gift. > > > > > > He seemed to have been transported to his > > > childhood, and often asked about his parents. > > > > > > His memories appeared in disconnected flashes, > > > and his conversation made no sense. " Mom > > > should bake some cookies.. the TV is broken... > > > Why is the bus late? > > > > > > Without memories we neither love, nor hate, > > > nor suffer for loses we don't recall. > > > > > > Pete > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2008 Report Share Posted July 21, 2008 Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > My father lived to be 89. During his last > > > > > year of live, due to advanced alzheimer, > > > > > when I came to visit there was no smile, > > > > > no happiness in his face, no love in his > > > > > eyes. He always asked me who I was, and when > > > > > I told him, this information did not elicit > > > > > love. It was just as if I have said I was > > > > > the mailman bringing a gift. > > > > > > > > > > He seemed to have been transported to his > > > > > childhood, and often asked about his parents. > > > > > > > > > > His memories appeared in disconnected flashes, > > > > > and his conversation made no sense. " Mom > > > > > should bake some cookies.. the TV is broken... > > > > > Why is the bus late? > > > > > > > > > > Without memories we neither love, nor hate, > > > > > nor suffer for loses we don't recall. > > > > > > > > > > Pete > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, Pete, > > > > > > > > Very interesting and worth to ponder. > > > > > > > > Many years ago I have read somewhere that what we love we > > protect. > > > > And we also can see it the other way round, what we protect we > > love. > > > > > > > > What is that we protect, what is signalling us to be worth to get > > > > protected ? > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > P: Can you try to protect anything you don't remember? > > > > > > > > > > > > > W: Surely not, Pete, > > > > But that was not my question. > > > > We remember many things and events and again forget them without any > > impuls to protect them, without any love springing from them. > > P: Thanks, for asking me to clarify my statement. > What I wrote is that love cannot exist without > memories, that doesn't mean the inverse is true. > There can be memories that doesn't provoke love. > It's like saying mosquito larvae can't live > without a pool of water, that of course, doesn't > mean that every pool of water has larvae in it. > > > > >W: But some of those remembrances we want to protect like a blossom > > never to wither and never to leave us. > > P: True, the evolutionary function of love in animals > is to protect what they love: their offspring, their > territory, their own lives. Humans can make an > intellectual decision to protect without loving > someone, like a police officer will protect you > if you are being attacked in his presence, without > the need to feel love for you. Yes, Pete, I agree. It reminds me of Krishnamurti's statement " Where love ends duty and responsibility start " . I wonder if animals owe responsibility but I can't imagine they do. That's what concepts > like duty do. So love can be viewed as the hormone > who triggers protection in animals and also trust, > and belief in humans. > > Right Pete, I do share this view. Hormones are that base of feeling love and so the source of its corresponding physical activities. Werner > > Werner > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2008 Report Share Posted July 21, 2008 Nisargadatta , " Eric Putkonen " <eputkonen wrote: > > Without memories we can not love? > > No, love is not dependant on memory. Love is of the present...not of > the past (memory). Love is our own nature...if there truly were no > memories and the mind was still...then there would be only love > (there would be no other). > > Namaste, > > ~ Eric Putkonen > http://www.awaken2life.org > > Eric, the subject isn't about that love you are talking about.... maybe you talk about the love which is the source of all worldly appearences...... means, the love by which it's possible to " see " unity, oneness, the Self..........within/by the wholeness of perceptions that love can't be remembered......it just need to wake up..... here & now thats's all Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2008 Report Share Posted July 21, 2008 Nisargadatta , " Eric Putkonen " <eputkonen wrote: > > Without memories we can not love? > > No, love is not dependant on memory. Love is of the present...not of > the past (memory). Love is our own nature...if there truly were no > memories and the mind was still...then there would be only love > (there would be no other). No kidding... > > Namaste, > > ~ Eric Putkonen > http://www.awaken2life.org > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2008 Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Eric Putkonen " <eputkonen@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Without memories we can not love? > > > > > > No, love is not dependant on memory. Love is of the present...not > > of > > > the past (memory). Love is our own nature...if there truly were no > > > memories and the mind was still...then there would be only love > > > (there would be no other). > > > > > > > > > Eric, > > > > Your view of love is idealistic and rather esorteric. > > > > Go on day-dreaming. > > > > Werner > > > > > that's childish. > > and rather idealistic too. > > maybe it's 'esorteric' too... whatever the hell that means. > > it's just NOT...very clever at all. > > .b b.b. hey....i remember this " b.b.b. " .... Marc > > Namaste, > > > > > > ~ Eric Putkonen > > > http://www.awaken2life.org > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote: > > > > > > > > My father lived to be 89. During his last > > > > year of live, due to advanced alzheimer, > > > > when I came to visit there was no smile, > > > > no happiness in his face, no love in his > > > > eyes. He always asked me who I was, and when > > > > I told him, this information did not elicit > > > > love. It was just as if I have said I was > > > > the mailman bringing a gift. > > > > > > > > He seemed to have been transported to his > > > > childhood, and often asked about his parents. > > > > > > > > His memories appeared in disconnected flashes, > > > > and his conversation made no sense. " Mom > > > > should bake some cookies.. the TV is broken... > > > > Why is the bus late? > > > > > > > > Without memories we neither love, nor hate, > > > > nor suffer for loses we don't recall. > > > > > > > > Pete > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2008 Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " > <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Eric Putkonen " <eputkonen@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Without memories we can not love? > > > > > > > > No, love is not dependant on memory. Love is of the > present...not > > > of > > > > the past (memory). Love is our own nature...if there truly > were no > > > > memories and the mind was still...then there would be only love > > > > (there would be no other). > > > > > > > > > > > > > Eric, > > > > > > Your view of love is idealistic and rather esorteric. > > > > > > Go on day-dreaming. > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > that's childish. > > > > and rather idealistic too. > > > > maybe it's 'esorteric' too... whatever the hell that means. > > > > it's just NOT...very clever at all. > > > > .b b.b. > > > > hey....i remember this " b.b.b. " .... > > > Marc that's good. i don't remember .b.b.b. yet..baba hasn't forgotten .b.b.b. either. in a California state of mind.. it's difficult to feel so North Dakota. don't fret.. baba doesn't understand that statement either/or. have a great day..or let it have 'you'. :-) ..b b.b. > > > > Namaste, > > > > > > > > ~ Eric Putkonen > > > > http://www.awaken2life.org > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > My father lived to be 89. During his last > > > > > year of live, due to advanced alzheimer, > > > > > when I came to visit there was no smile, > > > > > no happiness in his face, no love in his > > > > > eyes. He always asked me who I was, and when > > > > > I told him, this information did not elicit > > > > > love. It was just as if I have said I was > > > > > the mailman bringing a gift. > > > > > > > > > > He seemed to have been transported to his > > > > > childhood, and often asked about his parents. > > > > > > > > > > His memories appeared in disconnected flashes, > > > > > and his conversation made no sense. " Mom > > > > > should bake some cookies.. the TV is broken... > > > > > Why is the bus late? > > > > > > > > > > Without memories we neither love, nor hate, > > > > > nor suffer for loses we don't recall. > > > > > > > > > > Pete > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 23, 2008 Report Share Posted July 23, 2008 > > > > that's good. > > i don't remember .b.b.b. > > yet..baba hasn't forgotten .b.b.b. either. > > in a California state of mind.. > > it's difficult to feel so North Dakota. > > don't fret.. > > baba doesn't understand that statement either/or. > > have a great day..or let it have 'you'. > > :-) > > .b b.b. > P: I remember the old bbb too, he was a babbler, therefore the 3 Bs. It was easy to send him on a spin, just like a top, he was. But when the baba, that is not baba talks, I listen. ) Have a good Canada day! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.