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Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming "

<adithya_comming wrote:

>

>

>

> End of suffering is possible!

>

>

>

> ...yes, it is called *death*!

 

P: What do we really mean by suffering?

 

Most people here would agree, I think,

that pain is not the same as suffering.

That suffering means a mind tormented

by its thoughts, fears, and moods. A

mind trapped in conditions that it

want to escape. Suffering requires being

caught, trapped and tormented by our own

mind for some time. A second, or a minute

of torment couldn't be considered suffering.

 

It's possible to acquire a mind that is

never trapped, that easily flows? Surely,

only death can put and end to physical

and mental pain, but the mind need not

dwell, and be trapped by that.

 

Is it possible to be dead, yet alive?

 

It is possible. Matter of fact, we all

partake of both, all the time, without

realizing it. The atoms, which gives us

form, are non-living things, yet our

bodies are alive. Most of our brain's

functions are unconscious, yet what

we consider our life is only our moments

of consciousness. What we consider life

and consciousness is a mere passing surface

reflection in a deep unconscious ocean.

 

Once we realize that unknowing, unconcious

ocean as the absolute we seek, we are

dead, and alive, but most important, we're

Free.

 

Pete

 

>

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Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6 wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming "

> <adithya_comming@> wrote:

> >

> >

> >

> > End of suffering is possible!

> >

> >

> >

> > ...yes, it is called *death*!

>

> P: What do we really mean by suffering?

>

> Most people here would agree, I think,

> that pain is not the same as suffering.

> That suffering means a mind tormented

> by its thoughts, fears, and moods. A

> mind trapped in conditions that it

> want to escape. Suffering requires being

> caught, trapped and tormented by our own

> mind for some time. A second, or a minute

> of torment couldn't be considered suffering.

>

> It's possible to acquire a mind that is

> never trapped, that easily flows? Surely,

> only death can put and end to physical

> and mental pain, but the mind need not

> dwell, and be trapped by that.

>

> Is it possible to be dead, yet alive?

>

> It is possible. Matter of fact, we all

> partake of both, all the time, without

> realizing it. The atoms, which gives us

> form, are non-living things, yet our

> bodies are alive. Most of our brain's

> functions are unconscious, yet what

> we consider our life is only our moments

> of consciousness. What we consider life

> and consciousness is a mere passing surface

> reflection in a deep unconscious ocean.

>

> Once we realize that unknowing, unconcious

> ocean as the absolute we seek, we are

> dead, and alive, but most important, we're

> Free.

>

> Pete

 

 

I like what you wrote above, Pete!

 

This is what I will say:

 

- Body has the potential for pain.

 

- Mind has the potential for suffering.

 

- Body and mind is ultimately one.

i.e. brain becomes body, body becomes

brain.

 

 

Ingest alcohol or drugs, first the body

changes, hormone changes and then change

the mind, feeling and thoughts.

 

Watch a scary movie or have a nightmare,

first the thinking changes and then the

feeling and mind and pretty soon the bdoy

changes as the heart starts racing.

 

Watch a exotic lady, a porno movie or read

a erotic fiction...

 

first the thinking changes, then the feeling,

then the mind and pretty soon the body too

changes as the flow of blood changes, shape,

size and strength of some organs changes,

speed of heart-beat changes.

 

 

and, perhaps, most importantly:

 

Change breathing [which is a body activity],

start breathing deeper, slowly... and, the

mind becomes calm. Calm the mind and breathing

starts to slow down.

 

 

Mind always has the potential of suffering,

but, if you define suffering by duration,

then, yes, with understanding a large part of

it becomes unnecessary. Nothing really changes,

but, the mind learns a better way to deal

with the situations that without understanding

cause suffering.

 

Thanks for this dialogue, Pete!

 

 

regards,

ac

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Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming "

<adithya_comming wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming "

> > <adithya_comming@> wrote:

> > >

> > >

>

> > Pete

>

>

> I like what you wrote above, Pete!

>

> This is what I will say:

>

> - Body has the potential for pain.

>

> - Mind has the potential for suffering.

>

> - Body and mind is ultimately one.

> i.e. brain becomes body, body becomes

> brain.

>

>

> Ingest alcohol or drugs, first the body

> changes, hormone changes and then change

> the mind, feeling and thoughts.

>

> Watch a scary movie or have a nightmare,

> first the thinking changes and then the

> feeling and mind and pretty soon the bdoy

> changes as the heart starts racing.

>

> Watch a exotic lady, a porno movie or read

> a erotic fiction...

>

> first the thinking changes, then the feeling,

> then the mind and pretty soon the body too

> changes as the flow of blood changes, shape,

> size and strength of some organs changes,

> speed of heart-beat changes.

>

>

> and, perhaps, most importantly:

>

> Change breathing [which is a body activity],

> start breathing deeper, slowly... and, the

> mind becomes calm. Calm the mind and breathing

> starts to slow down.

>

>

> Mind always has the potential of suffering,

> but, if you define suffering by duration,

> then, yes, with understanding a large part of

> it becomes unnecessary. Nothing really changes,

> but, the mind learns a better way to deal

> with the situations that without understanding

> cause suffering.

>

> Thanks for this dialogue, Pete!

>

>

> regards,

> ac

 

: You're welcome, Arvind. It always

makes me feel glad to hear that you're

doing so well.

 

Buddha said: " Suffering exists, but there

is no sufferer thereof. " Most people don't

take the time to meditate on this. To see,

that the mind has to allocate great energy,

from moment to moment to recreate the sufferer.

 

The sufferer comes to life when the mind is

intent in remember a history of suffering, which

it links to this instant of suffering, and it

projects into the future. In reality, only

this moment of pain exists, and as this instant

only, it's quite bearable. It only becomes

unbearable if we give it continuity in our

imagination.

 

 

 

>

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> GuruRatings , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote:

> >

> >

> > Buddha said: " Suffering exists, but there

> > is no sufferer thereof. " Most people don't

> > take the time to meditate on this. To see,

> > that the mind has to allocate great energy,

> > from moment to moment to recreate the sufferer.

 

Why does it invest energy to recreate the sufferer, Pete?

 

Is mind stupid?

 

I don't think so.

 

Mind recreates sufferer, because, it wants to

avoid suffering in the future and to do that it

wants to undersatnd the suffering, its causes,

its source, its mechanics.

 

 

In the root of this effort to 'avoid suffering'

is the real physical 'pain reaction' that

the body produces in response to this mental

suffering and,the memory of the 'body pain'

which is associated with this 'mental suffering.

 

 

For example, the memory of intense hunger or

extreme cold or severe pain caused by a

a pussing wound and not having access to food,

water or medicine might be associated with

the 'mental fear' of poverty.

 

 

Mind 'recreates' and 'projects' suffering

because the mind is interested in

'survival' and it is interested in its 'freedom'.

 

 

Mind knows that it can't really remain 'free'

when neurons are rapidly firing 'hunger', 'thirst' or

'pain' signals.

 

 

 

 

> >

> > The sufferer comes to life when the mind is

> > intent in remember a history of suffering, which

> > it links to this instant of suffering, and it

> > projects into the future. In reality, only

> > this moment of pain exists, and as this instant

> > only, it's quite bearable.

 

It is thru the memory, projection and extrapolation

that the humans and society [read mind] have made

so much progress in the word of medicine, food,

drugs to help certain pains from occuring.

 

The mind knows that. The mind knows that thru memory,

projection, extrapolation it might be able to solve

the recurrence of this pain. Mind knows that without

this 'memory' and analysis... it has no hope.

 

 

 

 

> It only becomes

> > unbearable if we give it continuity in our

> > imagination.

> >

> >

> >

> > >

> >

 

regards,

ac

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