Guest guest Posted July 23, 2008 Report Share Posted July 23, 2008 " You ARE those memories, iietsa, You are neither outside nor inside memory - you are it. " While it is true that memories are not separate from the Self, memories are not the Self. You are not those memories...otherwise when we loose those memories we would be diminished (which we, of course, are not diminished). Or gaining new memories would be enlargement of Self (and there is no more Self to be gained). I once woke up with no memory - no name, no role, I had no idea where I was, etc...it lasted probably 5 or 10 seconds. And then my name came to me and along with it my whole life story. That experience showed me that memory has no relation to the Self....and that loss of memory does not diminish the Self. I knew I existed and I was quiet happy and content while I had no memory. Namaste, ~ Eric Putkonen http://www.awaken2life.org Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > we may say that some memories are new,and other memories are old... > > we may say that some memories are painful, and others are happy... > > but all memories are in the same pool... > > and the only one to swim and dive in that pool is the nonexisting > > ignorant fool... > > when one is not living in dual relation to memories... > > they doesnt matter anymore than a brown,yellow, or green banana- > shell... > > ...iietsa > > > > > You ARE those memories, iietsa, > > You are neither outside nor inside memory - you are it. > > When you look at an object like a tree, a house or an animal etc, > your brain is comparing that sensory input with old material to > eventually recognize it. Cognition alsways is recognition. > > The world you look at is absolutely subjective, it is the result of > your own past, of your own biography. That's why you ARE the world. > > You cannot avoid or stop to subjectively see and recognize the world. > And you are not a fool to function that way. You can do nothing > against the way the brain is processing sensory input and assoziating > it with past already present material. > > You cannot change that, simply because you are not separate from it, > you are it, YOU ARE THE WORLD. > > If you would owe a separate existence, separate from your memories > which subjectively represent the world you see, then maybe you could > be called a fool. > > But you don't owe that separate existence, a separate existence as an > observer or as a witness. YOU ARE THE OBESERVED, you are the world. > > Werner > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 24, 2008 Report Share Posted July 24, 2008 Eric Putkonen wrote: > " You ARE those memories, iietsa, > You are neither outside nor inside memory - you are it. " > > While it is true that memories are not separate from the Self, > memories are not the Self. > > You are not those memories...otherwise when we loose those memories > we would be diminished (which we, of course, are not diminished). Or > gaining new memories would be enlargement of Self (and there is no > more Self to be gained). > > I once woke up with no memory - no name, no role, I had no idea where > I was, etc...it lasted probably 5 or 10 seconds. And then my name > came to me and along with it my whole life story. > > That experience showed me that memory has no relation to the > Self....and that loss of memory does not diminish the Self. I knew I > existed and I was quiet happy and content while I had no memory. > > Namaste, > > ~ Eric Putkonen > http://www.awaken2life.org > > That reminded me of an experience I had a few years ago, or should I say, didn't have? I awoke one morning in the realisation of undefined consciousness. I awoke in my bedroom as I had many times before but although I could see everything in the room, I had no grounds for reference. It was as though I, the memory of things, had vanished. I could see everything but without any identification, it was like I had awoken for the first time. After a few minutes, I started to remember what things were. For example, I was looking at a box on the floor for a short while with curiosity, when suddenly the concept of box entered my consciousness. After that, everything else re-emerged, so to speak. I might add, I experienced no fear, nor was I shocked after wards. love and peace, tyga Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 24, 2008 Report Share Posted July 24, 2008 Nisargadatta , " Eric Putkonen " <eputkonen wrote: > > " You ARE those memories, iietsa, > You are neither outside nor inside memory - you are it. " > > While it is true that memories are not separate from the Self, > memories are not the Self. > > You are not those memories...otherwise when we loose those memories > we would be diminished (which we, of course, are not diminished). Or > gaining new memories would be enlargement of Self (and there is no > more Self to be gained). > > I once woke up with no memory - no name, no role, I had no idea where > I was, etc...it lasted probably 5 or 10 seconds. And then my name > came to me and along with it my whole life story. > > That experience showed me that memory has no relation to the > Self....and that loss of memory does not diminish the Self. I knew I > existed and I was quiet happy and content while I had no memory. > > Namaste, Tell me who you are, Eric. Don't dare to repeat me any of that stuff you have read from Ramana, Buddhism, Maharaj etc, if you do then as soon as I get hold of you I will cut your ears off. The only you can tell me is about your past, about your biography you remember and you can tell of you body. You cannot tell me that you are the Self with capital " S " because that means your ears will get chopped off. Werner > > ~ Eric Putkonen > http://www.awaken2life.org > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > we may say that some memories are new,and other memories are > old... > > > we may say that some memories are painful, and others are happy... > > > but all memories are in the same pool... > > > and the only one to swim and dive in that pool is the nonexisting > > > ignorant fool... > > > when one is not living in dual relation to memories... > > > they doesnt matter anymore than a brown,yellow, or green banana- > > shell... > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > > You ARE those memories, iietsa, > > > > You are neither outside nor inside memory - you are it. > > > > When you look at an object like a tree, a house or an animal etc, > > your brain is comparing that sensory input with old material to > > eventually recognize it. Cognition alsways is recognition. > > > > The world you look at is absolutely subjective, it is the result of > > your own past, of your own biography. That's why you ARE the world. > > > > You cannot avoid or stop to subjectively see and recognize the > world. > > And you are not a fool to function that way. You can do nothing > > against the way the brain is processing sensory input and > assoziating > > it with past already present material. > > > > You cannot change that, simply because you are not separate from it, > > you are it, YOU ARE THE WORLD. > > > > If you would owe a separate existence, separate from your memories > > which subjectively represent the world you see, then maybe you > could > > be called a fool. > > > > But you don't owe that separate existence, a separate existence as > an > > observer or as a witness. YOU ARE THE OBESERVED, you are the world. > > > > Werner > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 24, 2008 Report Share Posted July 24, 2008 Nisargadatta , " Eric Putkonen " <eputkonen wrote: > > " You ARE those memories, iietsa, > You are neither outside nor inside memory - you are it. " > > While it is true that memories are not separate from the Self, > memories are not the Self. > > You are not those memories...otherwise when we loose those memories > we would be diminished (which we, of course, are not diminished). Or > gaining new memories would be enlargement of Self (and there is no > more Self to be gained). > > I once woke up with no memory - no name, no role, I had no idea where > I was, etc...it lasted probably 5 or 10 seconds. And then my name > came to me and along with it my whole life story. > > That experience showed me that memory has no relation to the > Self....and that loss of memory does not diminish the Self. I knew I > existed and I was quiet happy and content while I had no memory. > 5, FIVE or 10, TEN seconds, you're the real thing!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 24, 2008 Report Share Posted July 24, 2008 " Tell me who you are, Eric. " What is right now. " The only you can tell me is about your past, about your biography you remember and you can tell of you body. " My biography and past are not who I am...or when I woke up that day with no memory for a short while I would have been someone else (which I was not). Nor am I my body...it is a possession...like the clothes I wear (but changed less frequently than my clothes). " You cannot tell me that you are the Self with capital " S " because that means your ears will get chopped off. " No mention of the " S " word. Namaste, ~ Eric Putkonen http://www.awaken2life.org Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Eric Putkonen " <eputkonen@> > wrote: > > > > " You ARE those memories, iietsa, > > You are neither outside nor inside memory - you are it. " > > > > While it is true that memories are not separate from the Self, > > memories are not the Self. > > > > You are not those memories...otherwise when we loose those memories > > we would be diminished (which we, of course, are not diminished). > Or > > gaining new memories would be enlargement of Self (and there is no > > more Self to be gained). > > > > I once woke up with no memory - no name, no role, I had no idea > where > > I was, etc...it lasted probably 5 or 10 seconds. And then my name > > came to me and along with it my whole life story. > > > > That experience showed me that memory has no relation to the > > Self....and that loss of memory does not diminish the Self. I knew > I > > existed and I was quiet happy and content while I had no memory. > > > > Namaste, > > > Tell me who you are, Eric. > > Don't dare to repeat me any of that stuff you have read from Ramana, > Buddhism, Maharaj etc, if you do then as soon as I get hold of you I > will cut your ears off. > > The only you can tell me is about your past, about your biography you > remember and you can tell of you body. > > You cannot tell me that you are the Self with capital " S " because > that means your ears will get chopped off. > > Werner > > > > > > ~ Eric Putkonen > > http://www.awaken2life.org > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > > > we may say that some memories are new,and other memories are > > old... > > > > we may say that some memories are painful, and others are > happy... > > > > but all memories are in the same pool... > > > > and the only one to swim and dive in that pool is the > nonexisting > > > > ignorant fool... > > > > when one is not living in dual relation to memories... > > > > they doesnt matter anymore than a brown,yellow, or green banana- > > > shell... > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > You ARE those memories, iietsa, > > > > > > You are neither outside nor inside memory - you are it. > > > > > > When you look at an object like a tree, a house or an animal etc, > > > your brain is comparing that sensory input with old material to > > > eventually recognize it. Cognition alsways is recognition. > > > > > > The world you look at is absolutely subjective, it is the result > of > > > your own past, of your own biography. That's why you ARE the > world. > > > > > > You cannot avoid or stop to subjectively see and recognize the > > world. > > > And you are not a fool to function that way. You can do nothing > > > against the way the brain is processing sensory input and > > assoziating > > > it with past already present material. > > > > > > You cannot change that, simply because you are not separate from > it, > > > you are it, YOU ARE THE WORLD. > > > > > > If you would owe a separate existence, separate from your > memories > > > which subjectively represent the world you see, then maybe you > > could > > > be called a fool. > > > > > > But you don't owe that separate existence, a separate existence > as > > an > > > observer or as a witness. YOU ARE THE OBESERVED, you are the > world. > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2008 Report Share Posted July 25, 2008 Nisargadatta , " Eric Putkonen " <eputkonen wrote: > > " You ARE those memories, iietsa, > You are neither outside nor inside memory - you are it. " > > While it is true that memories are not separate from the Self, > memories are not the Self. > > You are not those memories...otherwise when we loose those memories > we would be diminished (which we, of course, are not diminished). Or > gaining new memories would be enlargement of Self (and there is no > more Self to be gained). > > I once woke up with no memory - no name, no role, I had no idea where > I was, etc...it lasted probably 5 or 10 seconds. And then my name > came to me and along with it my whole life story. > > That experience showed me that memory has no relation to the > Self....and that loss of memory does not diminish the Self. I knew I > existed and I was quiet happy and content while I had no memory. > > Namaste, > > ~ Eric Putkonen > http://www.awaken2life.org I am before memory...I am while memory...I am after memory... memories comes and goes...they are like smoke from a fire... I am the fire...and the smoke is casting shadows on the walls... I just dont get caught up in it... ....this lifestory that you spoke of...who has it?... " you " ... what is this " you " ...it is just a thought...I am not this thought... ....and no other thought...no memory...nothing...when all is gone... I am I...the real I... ....iietsa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2008 Report Share Posted July 25, 2008 Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Eric Putkonen " <eputkonen@> > wrote: > > > > " You ARE those memories, iietsa, > > You are neither outside nor inside memory - you are it. " > > > > While it is true that memories are not separate from the Self, > > memories are not the Self. > > > > You are not those memories...otherwise when we loose those memories > > we would be diminished (which we, of course, are not diminished). > Or > > gaining new memories would be enlargement of Self (and there is no > > more Self to be gained). > > > > I once woke up with no memory - no name, no role, I had no idea > where > > I was, etc...it lasted probably 5 or 10 seconds. And then my name > > came to me and along with it my whole life story. > > > > That experience showed me that memory has no relation to the > > Self....and that loss of memory does not diminish the Self. I knew > I > > existed and I was quiet happy and content while I had no memory. > > > > Namaste, > > > > ~ Eric Putkonen > > http://www.awaken2life.org > > I am before memory...I am while memory...I am after memory... > memories comes and goes...they are like smoke from a fire... > I am the fire...and the smoke is casting shadows on the walls... > I just dont get caught up in it... > ...this lifestory that you spoke of...who has it?... " you " ... > what is this " you " ...it is just a thought...I am not this thought... > ...and no other thought...no memory...nothing...when all is gone... > I am I...the real I... > ...iietsa > Namaste, iietsa, Ah, you wrote you are the real I. Tell us please, what is this real I ? Werner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2008 Report Share Posted July 25, 2008 Nisargadatta , tyga <tyga wrote: > > Eric Putkonen wrote: > > " You ARE those memories, iietsa, > > You are neither outside nor inside memory - you are it. " > > > > While it is true that memories are not separate from the Self, > > memories are not the Self. > > > > You are not those memories...otherwise when we loose those memories > > we would be diminished (which we, of course, are not diminished). Or > > gaining new memories would be enlargement of Self (and there is no > > more Self to be gained). > > > > I once woke up with no memory - no name, no role, I had no idea where > > I was, etc...it lasted probably 5 or 10 seconds. And then my name > > came to me and along with it my whole life story. > > > > That experience showed me that memory has no relation to the > > Self....and that loss of memory does not diminish the Self. I knew I > > existed and I was quiet happy and content while I had no memory. > > > > Namaste, > > > > ~ Eric Putkonen > > http://www.awaken2life.org > > > > > That reminded me of an experience I had a few years ago, or should I > say, didn't have? > > I awoke one morning in the realisation of undefined consciousness. I > awoke in my bedroom as I had many times before but although I could see > everything in the room, I had no grounds for reference. It was as though > I, the memory of things, had vanished. I could see everything but > without any identification, it was like I had awoken for the first time. > After a few minutes, I started to remember what things were. For > example, I was looking at a box on the floor for a short while with > curiosity, when suddenly the concept of box entered my consciousness. > After that, everything else re-emerged, so to speak. > > I might add, I experienced no fear, nor was I shocked after wards. > > love and peace, > > tyga > Tyga, that's nothing special, I have this alsmost every morning when waking up and being relaxed. This happens because your senses and their sensory input already is fully working but not the assocaiting part of brain, the short term memory, which makes all thoses objects in your room reckoignizable. Sometines I am really wondering for example what the hell could be that strange thing on the chair. And driven by curiosity I leave the bed and realize that unknown thing are my socks where the morining sun is shining on. Werner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 26, 2008 Report Share Posted July 26, 2008 Werner Woehr wrote: > > > > Tyga, that's nothing special, > > I have this alsmost every morning when waking up and being relaxed. > > This happens because your senses and their sensory input already is > fully working but not the assocaiting part of brain, the short term > memory, which makes all thoses objects in your room reckoignizable. > > Sometines I am really wondering for example what the hell could be > that strange thing on the chair. And driven by curiosity I leave the > bed and realize that unknown thing are my socks where the morining > sun is shining on. > > > > Werner > > > Hi Werner, It was an intriguing experience for me, as it had never happened before. It made me question, if my knowledge of the world is so easily influenced by my state of consciousness, that is, being only partially aware of what is and what is not upon waking, then how much of what I am aware of 'actually is at all'. The mind is a curious thing, I don't think I will miss it when its gone though. tyga Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 26, 2008 Report Share Posted July 26, 2008 Nisargadatta , tyga <tyga wrote: > > Werner Woehr wrote: > > > > > > > > Tyga, that's nothing special, > > > > I have this alsmost every morning when waking up and being relaxed. > > > > This happens because your senses and their sensory input already is > > fully working but not the assocaiting part of brain, the short term > > memory, which makes all thoses objects in your room reckoignizable. > > > > Sometines I am really wondering for example what the hell could be > > that strange thing on the chair. And driven by curiosity I leave the > > bed and realize that unknown thing are my socks where the morining > > sun is shining on. > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > Hi Werner, > > It was an intriguing experience for me, as it had never happened before. > It made me question, if my knowledge of the world is so easily > influenced by my state of consciousness, Tyga, It is the other way round: Your consciousness is influenced by the state of your knowledge of the world. > that is, being only partially > aware of what is and what is not upon waking, then how much of what > I am > aware of 'actually is at all'. The mind is a curious thing, I don't > think I will miss it when its gone though. > You, who says you think not to miss the mind when it is gone are the product of your mind. When the mind is gone, your too are gone and also consciousness is gone because consciousness is the reflection of your mind. You cannot separate mind and consciousness. To use an analogy just see the mind as a mountain and consciousness is the top of that mountain but the top still is a part of the mountain. They cannot be separated. As you wrote in that " strange " state you have been the first time where your consciousness was undefined and where you had no ground for reference, it just tells that your never really are relaxed when waking up. And the " strangeness " was just a deep relaxation you never had before and which was utterly new to you. Werner > tyga > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 26, 2008 Report Share Posted July 26, 2008 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Eric Putkonen " <eputkonen@> > > wrote: > > > > > > " You ARE those memories, iietsa, > > > You are neither outside nor inside memory - you are it. " > > > > > > While it is true that memories are not separate from the Self, > > > memories are not the Self. > > > > > > You are not those memories...otherwise when we loose those > memories > > > we would be diminished (which we, of course, are not > diminished). > > Or > > > gaining new memories would be enlargement of Self (and there is > no > > > more Self to be gained). > > > > > > I once woke up with no memory - no name, no role, I had no idea > > where > > > I was, etc...it lasted probably 5 or 10 seconds. And then my > name > > > came to me and along with it my whole life story. > > > > > > That experience showed me that memory has no relation to the > > > Self....and that loss of memory does not diminish the Self. I > knew > > I > > > existed and I was quiet happy and content while I had no memory. > > > > > > Namaste, > > > > > > ~ Eric Putkonen > > > http://www.awaken2life.org > > > > I am before memory...I am while memory...I am after memory... > > memories comes and goes...they are like smoke from a fire... > > I am the fire...and the smoke is casting shadows on the walls... > > I just dont get caught up in it... > > ...this lifestory that you spoke of...who has it?... " you " ... > > what is this " you " ...it is just a thought...I am not this thought... > > ...and no other thought...no memory...nothing...when all is gone... > > I am I...the real I... > > ...iietsa > > > > > Namaste, iietsa, > > Ah, you wrote you are the real I. Tell us please, what is this real > I ? > > Werner > all words are mere smoke...and so naturaly they can never be the fire...all they can do at the best is point this out...and say that the unreal is the unreal...when the unreal is seen for what it is... ....the real stands pure and silent... ....iietsa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 26, 2008 Report Share Posted July 26, 2008 Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Eric Putkonen " <eputkonen@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > " You ARE those memories, iietsa, > > > > You are neither outside nor inside memory - you are it. " > > > > > > > > While it is true that memories are not separate from the Self, > > > > memories are not the Self. > > > > > > > > You are not those memories...otherwise when we loose those > > memories > > > > we would be diminished (which we, of course, are not > > diminished). > > > Or > > > > gaining new memories would be enlargement of Self (and there is > > no > > > > more Self to be gained). > > > > > > > > I once woke up with no memory - no name, no role, I had no idea > > > where > > > > I was, etc...it lasted probably 5 or 10 seconds. And then my > > name > > > > came to me and along with it my whole life story. > > > > > > > > That experience showed me that memory has no relation to the > > > > Self....and that loss of memory does not diminish the Self. I > > knew > > > I > > > > existed and I was quiet happy and content while I had no memory. > > > > > > > > Namaste, > > > > > > > > ~ Eric Putkonen > > > > http://www.awaken2life.org > > > > > > I am before memory...I am while memory...I am after memory... > > > memories comes and goes...they are like smoke from a fire... > > > I am the fire...and the smoke is casting shadows on the walls... > > > I just dont get caught up in it... > > > ...this lifestory that you spoke of...who has it?... " you " ... > > > what is this " you " ...it is just a thought...I am not this > thought... > > > ...and no other thought...no memory...nothing...when all is > gone... > > > I am I...the real I... > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > > Namaste, iietsa, > > > > Ah, you wrote you are the real I. Tell us please, what is this real > > I ? > > > > Werner > > > > > all words are mere smoke...and so naturaly they can never be the > fire...all they can do at the best is point this out...and say that > the unreal is the unreal...when the unreal is seen for what it is... > ...the real stands pure and silent... > ...iietsa > Without words, iietsa, we couldn't communicate, neither here in this forum, nor when phoning or when going shopping etc. And therefore words are very, very important and should not be called just " smoke " . Be grateful that you are not deaf and dumb like many other unlucky people are. And besides all that I don't believe that you see " the real stands pure and silent " . Thats just spiritual swanking. Werner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2008 Report Share Posted July 27, 2008 NondualitySalon/message/105996 about 'realization' and behavior > > > > Werner Woehr wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Tyga, that's nothing special, > > > > > > I have this alsmost every morning when waking up and being > relaxed. > > > > > > This happens because your senses and their sensory input already > is > > > fully working but not the assocaiting part of brain, the short > term > > > memory, which makes all thoses objects in your room > reckoignizable. > > > > > > Sometines I am really wondering for example what the hell could > be > > > that strange thing on the chair. And driven by curiosity I leave > the > > > bed and realize that unknown thing are my socks where the > morining > > > sun is shining on. > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Werner, > > > > It was an intriguing experience for me, as it had never happened > before. > > It made me question, if my knowledge of the world is so easily > > influenced by my state of consciousness, > > > Tyga, > > It is the other way round: Your consciousness is influenced by the > state of your knowledge of the world. > > > > that is, being only partially > > aware of what is and what is not upon waking, then how much of what > > I am > > aware of 'actually is at all'. The mind is a curious thing, I don't > > think I will miss it when its gone though. > > > > > You, who says you think not to miss the mind when it is gone are the > product of your mind. When the mind is gone, your too are gone and > also consciousness is gone because consciousness is the reflection of > your mind. > > You cannot separate mind and consciousness. To use an analogy just > see the mind as a mountain and consciousness is the top of that > mountain but the top still is a part of the mountain. They cannot be > separated. > > As you wrote in that " strange " state you have been the first time > where your consciousness was undefined and where you had no ground > for reference, it just tells that your never really are relaxed when > waking up. And the " strangeness " was just a deep relaxation you never > had before and which was utterly new to you. > > Werner > > > > tyga > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2008 Report Share Posted July 27, 2008 Era wrote: >> >> You, who says you think not to miss the mind when it is gone are the >> product of your mind. When the mind is gone, your too are gone and >> also consciousness is gone because consciousness is the reflection of >> your mind. >> Thank you for the explanation, I guess I was probably appearing more naive than I intended. What you say is what I intended to mean. I would not miss the mind because I am not the mind, nothing to miss. >> You cannot separate mind and consciousness. To use an analogy just >> see the mind as a mountain and consciousness is the top of that >> mountain but the top still is a part of the mountain. They cannot be >> separated. >> Indeed, mind without consciousness is like wind without air, so to speak. >> As you wrote in that " strange " state you have been the first time >> where your consciousness was undefined and where you had no ground >> for reference, it just tells that your never really are relaxed when >> waking up. And the " strangeness " was just a deep relaxation you never >> had before and which was utterly new to you. >> >> Werner >> >> You are quite right Werner, very perceptive. I have had and still do to some lesser extend, struggle with an anxious mind. tyga Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 29, 2008 Report Share Posted July 29, 2008 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Eric Putkonen " > <eputkonen@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > " You ARE those memories, iietsa, > > > > > You are neither outside nor inside memory - you are it. " > > > > > > > > > > While it is true that memories are not separate from the > Self, > > > > > memories are not the Self. > > > > > > > > > > You are not those memories...otherwise when we loose those > > > memories > > > > > we would be diminished (which we, of course, are not > > > diminished). > > > > Or > > > > > gaining new memories would be enlargement of Self (and there > is > > > no > > > > > more Self to be gained). > > > > > > > > > > I once woke up with no memory - no name, no role, I had no > idea > > > > where > > > > > I was, etc...it lasted probably 5 or 10 seconds. And then my > > > name > > > > > came to me and along with it my whole life story. > > > > > > > > > > That experience showed me that memory has no relation to the > > > > > Self....and that loss of memory does not diminish the Self. > I > > > knew > > > > I > > > > > existed and I was quiet happy and content while I had no > memory. > > > > > > > > > > Namaste, > > > > > > > > > > ~ Eric Putkonen > > > > > http://www.awaken2life.org > > > > > > > > I am before memory...I am while memory...I am after memory... > > > > memories comes and goes...they are like smoke from a fire... > > > > I am the fire...and the smoke is casting shadows on the walls... > > > > I just dont get caught up in it... > > > > ...this lifestory that you spoke of...who has it?... " you " ... > > > > what is this " you " ...it is just a thought...I am not this > > thought... > > > > ...and no other thought...no memory...nothing...when all is > > gone... > > > > I am I...the real I... > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste, iietsa, > > > > > > Ah, you wrote you are the real I. Tell us please, what is this > real > > > I ? > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > all words are mere smoke...and so naturaly they can never be the > > fire...all they can do at the best is point this out...and say that > > the unreal is the unreal...when the unreal is seen for what it is... > > ...the real stands pure and silent... > > ...iietsa > > > > > Without words, iietsa, we couldn't communicate, neither here in this > forum, nor when phoning or when going shopping etc. And therefore > words are very, very important and should not be called just " smoke " . > > Be grateful that you are not deaf and dumb like many other unlucky > people are. > > And besides all that I don't believe that you see " the real stands > pure and silent " . Thats just spiritual swanking. > > Werner > smoke...smoke...and more smoke... whats so great with verbalism...nothing... its just like anything...it has no value of its own... smoke...is eveything...and at the same thing it is nothing... why make a fuss about nothing... ....iietsa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 29, 2008 Report Share Posted July 29, 2008 Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Eric Putkonen " > > <eputkonen@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > " You ARE those memories, iietsa, > > > > > > You are neither outside nor inside memory - you are it. " > > > > > > > > > > > > While it is true that memories are not separate from the > > Self, > > > > > > memories are not the Self. > > > > > > > > > > > > You are not those memories...otherwise when we loose those > > > > memories > > > > > > we would be diminished (which we, of course, are not > > > > diminished). > > > > > Or > > > > > > gaining new memories would be enlargement of Self (and > there > > is > > > > no > > > > > > more Self to be gained). > > > > > > > > > > > > I once woke up with no memory - no name, no role, I had no > > idea > > > > > where > > > > > > I was, etc...it lasted probably 5 or 10 seconds. And then > my > > > > name > > > > > > came to me and along with it my whole life story. > > > > > > > > > > > > That experience showed me that memory has no relation to > the > > > > > > Self....and that loss of memory does not diminish the > Self. > > I > > > > knew > > > > > I > > > > > > existed and I was quiet happy and content while I had no > > memory. > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste, > > > > > > > > > > > > ~ Eric Putkonen > > > > > > http://www.awaken2life.org > > > > > > > > > > I am before memory...I am while memory...I am after memory... > > > > > memories comes and goes...they are like smoke from a fire... > > > > > I am the fire...and the smoke is casting shadows on the > walls... > > > > > I just dont get caught up in it... > > > > > ...this lifestory that you spoke of...who has it?... " you " ... > > > > > what is this " you " ...it is just a thought...I am not this > > > thought... > > > > > ...and no other thought...no memory...nothing...when all is > > > gone... > > > > > I am I...the real I... > > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste, iietsa, > > > > > > > > Ah, you wrote you are the real I. Tell us please, what is this > > real > > > > I ? > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > all words are mere smoke...and so naturaly they can never be the > > > fire...all they can do at the best is point this out...and say > that > > > the unreal is the unreal...when the unreal is seen for what it > is... > > > ...the real stands pure and silent... > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > > Without words, iietsa, we couldn't communicate, neither here in > this > > forum, nor when phoning or when going shopping etc. And therefore > > words are very, very important and should not be called > just " smoke " . > > > > Be grateful that you are not deaf and dumb like many other unlucky > > people are. > > > > And besides all that I don't believe that you see " the real stands > > pure and silent " . Thats just spiritual swanking. > > > > Werner > > > > smoke...smoke...and more smoke... > whats so great with verbalism...nothing... > its just like anything...it has no value of its own... > smoke...is eveything...and at the same thing it is nothing... > why make a fuss about nothing... > ...iietsa > Stop smoking than, if you can!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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