Guest guest Posted September 13, 2008 Report Share Posted September 13, 2008 I have read " I Am That " and am currently reading " Seeds of Consciousness " . I can feel the Truth in the written words but it has led me into some difficulties which I hope someone here might be able to point me in the right direction. If the death of my body is the death of my conscious being and I merge back into the Absolute then it seems to me there is no purpose in what I do. Why should I bother to meditate on " I Am " versus someone who doesn't since we all go to the same place when our bodies die. Whether you're Hitler or a saint. It seems to make no difference. Why would Nisargadatta ask his disciples to meditate on " I Am " if there is no benefit? What good is gaining awareness of self when death of the body, mind, and consciousness levels the playing field for everyone. I am perplexed and am asking for some help in understanding. Thanks, Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2008 Report Share Posted September 21, 2008 Nisargadatta , " Eric Berg " <khufumen wrote: > > I have read " I Am That " and am currently reading " Seeds of > Consciousness " . I can feel the Truth in the written words but it has > led me into some difficulties which I hope someone here might be able > to point me in the right direction. > > If the death of my body is the death of my conscious being and I merge > back into the Absolute then it seems to me there is no purpose in what > I do. Why should I bother to meditate on " I Am " versus someone who > doesn't since we all go to the same place when our bodies die. Whether > you're Hitler or a saint. It seems to make no difference. Why would > Nisargadatta ask his disciples to meditate on " I Am " if there is no > benefit? What good is gaining awareness of self when death of the > body, mind, and consciousness levels the playing field for everyone. > > I am perplexed and am asking for some help in understanding. > > Thanks, > Eric P: Only one thing exist: Now. Does it matter that what happens now will end? A movie has no relevance for the future. Still, we rather see a great movie than a lousy one. A night- mare is not real, but it is better to sleep dreaming happy dreams. No one can choose between being a Hitler or a saint. You are what you are, you do what you do. So, enjoy who you are, and what you do now. Death, you will never know. There is no you in death. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2008 Report Share Posted September 22, 2008 Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Eric Berg " <khufumen@> wrote: > > > > I have read " I Am That " and am currently reading " Seeds of > > Consciousness " . I can feel the Truth in the written words but it has > > led me into some difficulties which I hope someone here might be able > > to point me in the right direction. > > > > If the death of my body is the death of my conscious being and I merge > > back into the Absolute then it seems to me there is no purpose in what > > I do. Why should I bother to meditate on " I Am " versus someone who > > doesn't since we all go to the same place when our bodies die. Whether > > you're Hitler or a saint. It seems to make no difference. Why would > > Nisargadatta ask his disciples to meditate on " I Am " if there is no > > benefit? What good is gaining awareness of self when death of the > > body, mind, and consciousness levels the playing field for everyone. > > > > I am perplexed and am asking for some help in understanding. > > > > Thanks, > > Eric > The Fates have placed your head in the tiger's mouth. There is no escape. The more you struggle.....the harder the tiger bites. > > > > If the death of my body is the death of my conscious being and I merge > > back into the Absolute What makes you assume that you " merge back into the Absolute? " That which never lived can never die. Does a shadow merge back into the sun? then it seems to me there is no purpose in what > > I do. Factor out the assumption that you are the doer and the word " purpose " looses its meaning. Determine if you exist before you start looking for purposes. Oh I know........You have heard that the only thing that you know for sure is that you exist......Find out. Why should I bother to meditate on " I Am " versus someone who > > doesn't since we all go to the same place when our bodies die. Find out if you have a personal will to meditate on or not meditate. Whether > > you're Hitler or a saint. It seems to make no difference. Why would > > Nisargadatta ask his disciples to meditate on " I Am " if there is no > > benefit? The benefit of meditation is the insight into the nature and result of the incessant roof-brain-chatter. When one seriously " looks inside " .....nothing can be found. Most stop there......some are compelled to continue on until the end. (But the end is not at all what they imagine.) What good is gaining awareness of self when death of the > > body, mind, and consciousness levels the playing field for everyone. Absolutely no good at all.......upon realization there is no one left the claim it. There is a most delightful freefall into what's next unencumbered by the past. > > > > I am perplexed and am asking for some help in understanding. > > > > Thanks, > > Eric Your self has good reason to be perplexed. In some ways it is very strong......In others very vulnerable. It is a program....evolved to protect the organism. Nothing more. You have opened the doors....They can't be closed.....It's hard to tell what will happen next. But something WILL happen. LOL toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2008 Report Share Posted September 22, 2008 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Eric Berg " <khufumen@> wrote: > > > > > > I have read " I Am That " and am currently reading " Seeds of > > > Consciousness " . I can feel the Truth in the written words but it has > > > led me into some difficulties which I hope someone here might be able > > > to point me in the right direction. > > > > > > If the death of my body is the death of my conscious being and I merge > > > back into the Absolute then it seems to me there is no purpose in what > > > I do. Why should I bother to meditate on " I Am " versus someone who > > > doesn't since we all go to the same place when our bodies die. Whether > > > you're Hitler or a saint. It seems to make no difference. Why would > > > Nisargadatta ask his disciples to meditate on " I Am " if there is no > > > benefit? What good is gaining awareness of self when death of the > > > body, mind, and consciousness levels the playing field for everyone. > > > > > > I am perplexed and am asking for some help in understanding. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Eric > > > > > > > The Fates have placed your head in the tiger's mouth. > > There is no escape. > > The more you struggle.....the harder the tiger bites. > > > > > > > If the death of my body is the death of my conscious being and I merge > > > back into the Absolute > > > > What makes you assume that you " merge back into the Absolute? " > > That which never lived can never die. > > > > Does a shadow merge back into the sun? then it seems to me there is no purpose in what > > > I do. > > > Factor out the assumption that you are the doer and the word " purpose " > looses its meaning. > > > > > > Determine if you exist before you start looking for purposes. > > Oh I know........You have heard that the only thing that you know for > sure is that you exist......Find out. Why should I bother to meditate on " I Am " versus someone who > > > doesn't since we all go to the same place when our bodies die. > > > > > > Find out if you have a personal will to meditate on or not meditate. Whether > > > you're Hitler or a saint. It seems to make no difference. Why would > > > Nisargadatta ask his disciples to meditate on " I Am " if there is no > > > benefit? > > > > The benefit of meditation is the insight into the nature and result of > the incessant roof-brain-chatter. > > When one seriously " looks inside " .....nothing can > be found. > > Most stop there......some are compelled to continue on until the end. > > (But the end is not at all what they imagine.) > What good is gaining awareness of self when death of the > > > body, mind, and consciousness levels the playing field for everyone. > > > > > Absolutely no good at all.......upon realization there is no one left > the claim it. > > There is a most delightful freefall into what's next unencumbered by > the past. > > > > > > > > > > > I am perplexed and am asking for some help in understanding. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Eric > > > Your self has good reason to be perplexed. > > In some ways it is very strong......In others very vulnerable. > > It is a program....evolved to protect the organism. > > Nothing more. > > You have opened the doors....They can't be closed.....It's hard to > tell what will happen next. > > But something WILL happen. > > > LOL > > > > > toombaru > However, the lady is always here to put your head on a silver platter..... when she is finished with her dance... ~A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2008 Report Share Posted September 22, 2008 Eric Berg wrote: > I have read " I Am That " and am currently reading " Seeds of > Consciousness " . I can feel the Truth in the written words but it has > led me into some difficulties which I hope someone here might be able > to point me in the right direction. > > If the death of my body is the death of my conscious being and I merge > back into the Absolute then it seems to me there is no purpose in what > I do. Why should I bother to meditate on " I Am " versus someone who > doesn't since we all go to the same place when our bodies die. Whether > you're Hitler or a saint. It seems to make no difference. Why would > Nisargadatta ask his disciples to meditate on " I Am " if there is no > benefit? What good is gaining awareness of self when death of the > body, mind, and consciousness levels the playing field for everyone. > > I am perplexed and am asking for some help in understanding. > > Thanks, > Eric > > > --- > > You might want to take a look at " Man's Search for meaning " by the late Viktor Frankl. Viktor's approach to existential angst is quite refreshing, at least I found it to be so. It is only a small book and easy to read. An exert: Existential frustration Man's will to meaning can also be frustrated, in which case logotherapy speaks of " existential frustration. " The term " existential " may be used in three ways: to refer to (1) /existence/ itself, ie., the specifically human mode of being; (2) the meaning of existence; and (3) the striving to find concrete meaning in personal existence, that is to say the will to meaning. " Existential frustration is in itself neither pathological nor pathogenic. A man's concern, even his despair, over the worthwhileness of life is an existential distress but by no means a mental disease. " If the death of my body is the death of my conscious being and I merge back into the Absolute then it seems to me there is no purpose in what I do. Indeed, I think this is probably the beginning of understanding. When we come to realise that there is no inherent /meaning, /we begin to awaken to the true nature of reality. Why should I bother to meditate on " I Am " versus someone who doesn't since we all go to the same place when our bodies die. Because we all have a need to understand and we all feel drawn to discover. When you turn inward, starting with the concept of /I AM, /you find what you need and discover what you have been searching for. Whether you're Hitler or a saint. It seems to make no difference. Why would it make any difference? The only difference is the layers of delusion, what is underneath is identical. Why would Nisargadatta ask his disciples to meditate on " I Am " if there is no benefit? Well, that's the point really. Your not looking for benefit, your searching for the answer to the need to know oneself, to discover who you really are. Your attempting to discover what it is your been searching for. What good is gaining awareness of self when death of the body, mind, and consciousness levels the playing field for everyone. When awareness is gained, these questions fall away and no longer hold any true relevance. I am perplexed and am asking for some help in understanding. Your not confused, your mind is confused, the best thing to do in my opinion, is stop identifying with your thoughts. You are not your mind. tyga Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2008 Report Share Posted September 22, 2008 Nisargadatta , tyga <tyga wrote: > > Eric Berg wrote: > > I have read " I Am That " and am currently reading " Seeds of > > Consciousness " . I can feel the Truth in the written words but it has > > led me into some difficulties which I hope someone here might be able > > to point me in the right direction. > > > > If the death of my body is the death of my conscious being and I merge > > back into the Absolute then it seems to me there is no purpose in what > > I do. Why should I bother to meditate on " I Am " versus someone who > > doesn't since we all go to the same place when our bodies die. Whether > > you're Hitler or a saint. It seems to make no difference. Why would > > Nisargadatta ask his disciples to meditate on " I Am " if there is no > > benefit? What good is gaining awareness of self when death of the > > body, mind, and consciousness levels the playing field for everyone. > > > > I am perplexed and am asking for some help in understanding. > > > > Thanks, > > Eric > > > > > > --- > > > > > You might want to take a look at " Man's Search for meaning " by the late > Viktor Frankl. > > Viktor's approach to existential angst is quite refreshing, at least I > found it to be so. > > It is only a small book and easy to read. > > An exert: > > Existential frustration > > Man's will to meaning can also be frustrated, in which case logotherapy > speaks of " existential frustration. " The term " existential " may be used > in three ways: to refer to (1) /existence/ itself, ie., the specifically > human mode of being; (2) the meaning of existence; and (3) the striving > to find concrete meaning in personal existence, that is to say the will > to meaning. > > " Existential frustration is in itself neither pathological nor > pathogenic. A man's concern, even his despair, over the worthwhileness > of life is an existential distress but by no means a mental disease. " > > If the death of my body is the death of my conscious being and I merge > back into the Absolute then it seems to me there is no purpose in what > I do. > > > Indeed, I think this is probably the beginning of understanding. When we > come to realise that there is no inherent /meaning, /we begin to awaken > to the true nature of reality. > > Why should I bother to meditate on " I Am " versus someone who > doesn't since we all go to the same place when our bodies die. > > > Because we all have a need to understand and we all feel drawn to > discover. When you turn inward, starting with the concept of /I AM, /you > find what you need and discover what you have been searching for. > > > Whether > you're Hitler or a saint. It seems to make no difference. > > > Why would it make any difference? The only difference is the layers of > delusion, what is underneath is identical. > > > Why would > Nisargadatta ask his disciples to meditate on " I Am " if there is no > benefit? > > > Well, that's the point really. Your not looking for benefit, your > searching for the answer to the need to know oneself, to discover who > you really are. Your attempting to discover what it is your been > searching for. > > What good is gaining awareness of self when death of the > body, mind, and consciousness levels the playing field for everyone. > > > When awareness is gained, these questions fall away and no longer hold > any true relevance. > > I am perplexed and am asking for some help in understanding. > > > Your not confused, your mind is confused, the best thing to do in my > opinion, is stop identifying with your thoughts. You are not your mind. > > > tyga > He spoke of a moment in all that suffering of unimaginable *angst*, that a flower should grow in the cold bitterness, there...between the paved cracks....and that he was alive to see it. " There is a crack. There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in. " Leonard Cohen. Peace Now. Love Always. ~A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2008 Report Share Posted September 22, 2008 anabebe57 wrote: > > > > > He spoke of a moment in all that suffering of unimaginable *angst*, > that a flower should grow in the cold bitterness, there...between the > paved cracks....and that he was alive to see it. > > " There is a crack. There is a crack in everything. That's how the > light gets in. " Leonard Cohen. > > Peace Now. Love Always. > > ~A > > > > > --- > > The existential crisis may very well be the crack in which the light is able to come through, the soil in which the flower might grow. life finds a way. tyga Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2008 Report Share Posted September 22, 2008 Nisargadatta , tyga <tyga wrote: > > anabebe57 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > He spoke of a moment in all that suffering of unimaginable *angst*, > > that a flower should grow in the cold bitterness, there...between the > > paved cracks....and that he was alive to see it. > > > > " There is a crack. There is a crack in everything. That's how the > > light gets in. " Leonard Cohen. > > > > Peace Now. Love Always. > > > > ~A > > > > > > > > > > --- > > > > > The existential crisis may very well be the crack in which the light is > able to come through, the soil in which the flower might grow. > > life finds a way. > > tyga > It sure as hell doesn't feel like light. :-0 toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2008 Report Share Posted September 22, 2008 toombaru2006 wrote: > > > > It sure as hell doesn't feel like light. > > > > :-0 > > > > > toombaru > > > --- > > No, it sure doesn't feel like light, quite the opposite!! :-) I know from my own experience, existential anxiety can be extremely painful physically, emotionally and mentally. For example, sometimes the " abyss " can appear so deep that there seems to be no light at all, actually you can even become convinced that the existential angst state of mind is ALL there is, which is terrifying. Existential preoccupation can potentially be very dangerous, sending ones mind around the twist, so to speak. I advise caution. tyga Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2008 Report Share Posted September 22, 2008 Nisargadatta , tyga <tyga wrote: > > toombaru2006 wrote: > > > > > > > > It sure as hell doesn't feel like light. > > > > > > > > :-0 > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > --- > > > > > No, it sure doesn't feel like light, quite the opposite!! :-) > > I know from my own experience, existential anxiety can be extremely > painful physically, emotionally and mentally. > > For example, sometimes the " abyss " can appear so deep that there seems > to be no light at all, actually you can even become convinced that the > existential angst state of mind is ALL there is, which is terrifying. > > Existential preoccupation can potentially be very dangerous, sending > ones mind around the twist, so to speak. > > I advise caution. > > tyga > I advise that caution be abandoned. Time is closing the door. What have you got to loose? toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2008 Report Share Posted September 22, 2008 toombaru2006 wrote: > Nisargadatta , tyga <tyga wrote: > >> toombaru2006 wrote: >> >>> >>> It sure as hell doesn't feel like light. >>> >>> >>> >>> :-0 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> toombaru >>> >>> >>> --- >>> >>> >>> >> No, it sure doesn't feel like light, quite the opposite!! :-) >> >> I know from my own experience, existential anxiety can be extremely >> painful physically, emotionally and mentally. >> >> For example, sometimes the " abyss " can appear so deep that there seems >> to be no light at all, actually you can even become convinced that the >> existential angst state of mind is ALL there is, which is terrifying. >> >> Existential preoccupation can potentially be very dangerous, sending >> ones mind around the twist, so to speak. >> >> I advise caution. >> >> tyga >> >> > > > > I advise that caution be abandoned. > > Time is closing the door. > > What have you got to loose? > > > > > toombaru > > > --- > Sometimes my underpants are too loose and they tend to fall down around my bum cheeks, that can be annoying? :-D Oh wait, did you mean 'to lose' or 'too loose'? tyga Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2008 Report Share Posted September 22, 2008 toombaru2006 wrote: >> >> No, it sure doesn't feel like light, quite the opposite!! :-) >> >> I know from my own experience, existential anxiety can be extremely >> painful physically, emotionally and mentally. >> >> For example, sometimes the " abyss " can appear so deep that there seems >> to be no light at all, actually you can even become convinced that the >> existential angst state of mind is ALL there is, which is terrifying. >> >> Existential preoccupation can potentially be very dangerous, sending >> ones mind around the twist, so to speak. >> >> I advise caution. >> >> tyga >> >> > > > > I advise that caution be abandoned. > > Time is closing the door. > > What have you got to loose? > > > > > toombaru > > > --- > > For the same reason we look both ways before we cross the street, if you don't wish to get run over, it is wise to look both ways before proceeding to cross the road. The same reason we check the labels of a bottle before drinking the contents. For the same reason we ensure that the bath water is not boiling hot. There are millions of more examples. Are you suggesting reckless abandonment? I'm all for approaching life with zeal and passion but I also think that it needs to be balanced with responsibility. tyga Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2008 Report Share Posted September 22, 2008 Nisargadatta , tyga <tyga wrote: > > toombaru2006 wrote: > >> > >> No, it sure doesn't feel like light, quite the opposite!! :-) > >> > >> I know from my own experience, existential anxiety can be extremely > >> painful physically, emotionally and mentally. > >> > >> For example, sometimes the " abyss " can appear so deep that there seems > >> to be no light at all, actually you can even become convinced that the > >> existential angst state of mind is ALL there is, which is terrifying. > >> > >> Existential preoccupation can potentially be very dangerous, sending > >> ones mind around the twist, so to speak. > >> > >> I advise caution. > >> > >> tyga > >> > >> > > > > > > > > I advise that caution be abandoned. > > > > Time is closing the door. > > > > What have you got to loose? > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > --- > > > > > For the same reason we look both ways before we cross the street, if you > don't wish to get run over, it is wise to look both ways before > proceeding to cross the road. The same reason we check the labels of a > bottle before drinking the contents. For the same reason we ensure that > the bath water is not boiling hot. There are millions of more examples. > > Are you suggesting reckless abandonment? > > I'm all for approaching life with zeal and passion but I also think that > it needs to be balanced with responsibility. > > tyga > Physical life needs precaution to live Spiritual life needs abandon to die. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2008 Report Share Posted September 22, 2008 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , tyga <tyga@> wrote: > > > > toombaru2006 wrote: > > >> > > >> No, it sure doesn't feel like light, quite the opposite!! :-) > > >> > > >> I know from my own experience, existential anxiety can be extremely > > >> painful physically, emotionally and mentally. > > >> > > >> For example, sometimes the " abyss " can appear so deep that there > seems > > >> to be no light at all, actually you can even become convinced > that the > > >> existential angst state of mind is ALL there is, which is terrifying. > > >> > > >> Existential preoccupation can potentially be very dangerous, sending > > >> ones mind around the twist, so to speak. > > >> > > >> I advise caution. > > >> > > >> tyga > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > I advise that caution be abandoned. > > > > > > Time is closing the door. > > > > > > What have you got to loose? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > --- > > > > > > > > For the same reason we look both ways before we cross the street, if > you > > don't wish to get run over, it is wise to look both ways before > > proceeding to cross the road. The same reason we check the labels of a > > bottle before drinking the contents. For the same reason we ensure that > > the bath water is not boiling hot. There are millions of more examples. > > > > Are you suggesting reckless abandonment? > > > > I'm all for approaching life with zeal and passion but I also think > that > > it needs to be balanced with responsibility. > > > > tyga > > > > > > Physical life needs precaution to live > > Spiritual life needs abandon to die. > > > > toombaru > Physical life and spiritual life meet at the intersection of duality... Life has always been *spiritualized*; if we know this with certainity, we live it. How can we not? ~A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2008 Report Share Posted September 22, 2008 Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " <kailashana wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , tyga <tyga@> wrote: > > > > > > toombaru2006 wrote: > > > >> > > > >> No, it sure doesn't feel like light, quite the opposite!! :-) > > > >> > > > >> I know from my own experience, existential anxiety can be > extremely > > > >> painful physically, emotionally and mentally. > > > >> > > > >> For example, sometimes the " abyss " can appear so deep that there > > seems > > > >> to be no light at all, actually you can even become convinced > > that the > > > >> existential angst state of mind is ALL there is, which is > terrifying. > > > >> > > > >> Existential preoccupation can potentially be very dangerous, > sending > > > >> ones mind around the twist, so to speak. > > > >> > > > >> I advise caution. > > > >> > > > >> tyga > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I advise that caution be abandoned. > > > > > > > > Time is closing the door. > > > > > > > > What have you got to loose? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > --- > > > > > > > > > > > For the same reason we look both ways before we cross the street, if > > you > > > don't wish to get run over, it is wise to look both ways before > > > proceeding to cross the road. The same reason we check the labels > of a > > > bottle before drinking the contents. For the same reason we ensure > that > > > the bath water is not boiling hot. There are millions of more > examples. > > > > > > Are you suggesting reckless abandonment? > > > > > > I'm all for approaching life with zeal and passion but I also think > > that > > > it needs to be balanced with responsibility. > > > > > > tyga > > > > > > > > > > > Physical life needs precaution to live > > > > Spiritual life needs abandon to die. > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > Physical life and spiritual life meet at the intersection > of duality... Ana, what please is " intersection of duality " ? When so called " duality " is just the categories of thought then what is is its " intersection " ? And when so called " spiritual " life is just mental day-dreaming then how does this day-dreaming meet that funny " intersection ? Ok, I admit that " phisical life and spiritual life meet at the intersection of duality " sounds very impressive .. congrats Werner > > Life has always been *spiritualized*; if we know this with > certainity, we live it. > > How can we not? > > ~A > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2008 Report Share Posted September 22, 2008 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " <kailashana@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , tyga <tyga@> wrote: > > > > > > > > toombaru2006 wrote: > > > > >> > > > > >> No, it sure doesn't feel like light, quite the opposite!! :-) > > > > >> > > > > >> I know from my own experience, existential anxiety can be > > extremely > > > > >> painful physically, emotionally and mentally. > > > > >> > > > > >> For example, sometimes the " abyss " can appear so deep that > there > > > seems > > > > >> to be no light at all, actually you can even become convinced > > > that the > > > > >> existential angst state of mind is ALL there is, which is > > terrifying. > > > > >> > > > > >> Existential preoccupation can potentially be very dangerous, > > sending > > > > >> ones mind around the twist, so to speak. > > > > >> > > > > >> I advise caution. > > > > >> > > > > >> tyga > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I advise that caution be abandoned. > > > > > > > > > > Time is closing the door. > > > > > > > > > > What have you got to loose? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For the same reason we look both ways before we cross the > street, if > > > you > > > > don't wish to get run over, it is wise to look both ways before > > > > proceeding to cross the road. The same reason we check the > labels > > of a > > > > bottle before drinking the contents. For the same reason we > ensure > > that > > > > the bath water is not boiling hot. There are millions of more > > examples. > > > > > > > > Are you suggesting reckless abandonment? > > > > > > > > I'm all for approaching life with zeal and passion but I also > think > > > that > > > > it needs to be balanced with responsibility. > > > > > > > > tyga > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Physical life needs precaution to live > > > > > > Spiritual life needs abandon to die. > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > Physical life and spiritual life meet at the intersection > > of duality... > > > > > Ana, what please is " intersection of duality " ? > > When so called " duality " is just the categories of thought then what > is is its " intersection " ? > > And when so called " spiritual " life is just mental day-dreaming then > how does this day-dreaming meet that funny " intersection ? > > Ok, I admit that " phisical life and spiritual life meet at the > intersection of duality " sounds very impressive .. congrats > > Werner Spirit in my vocabulary means *the power and energy of Life of Being*...We know what death *looks* like; but we hardly know what life *feels* like. Most of us are in denial. ~Anna > > > > > > Life has always been *spiritualized*; if we know this with > > certainity, we live it. > > > > How can we not? > > > > ~A > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2008 Report Share Posted September 22, 2008 Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " <kailashana wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " <kailashana@> > > > > > > Physical life and spiritual life meet at the intersection > > > of duality... > > > > > > > > > > Ana, what please is " intersection of duality " ? > > > > When so called " duality " is just the categories of thought then what > > is is its " intersection " ? > > > > And when so called " spiritual " life is just mental day-dreaming then > > how does this day-dreaming meet that funny " intersection ? > > > > Ok, I admit that " phisical life and spiritual life meet at the > > intersection of duality " sounds very impressive .. congrats > > > > Werner > > > Spirit in my vocabulary means *the power and energy of Life of > Being*...We know what death *looks* like; but we hardly know > what life *feels* like. Most of us are in denial. > > ~Anna > Hm, I still can't let you go with this, Ana, What we experience of " Being " is just that which consciousness offers and allows to. Therefore consciousness and " Being " is the same. The " power and energy of life " is just a romantic concept. It is an idea and nothing more. Just ask a plant, a mushroom, a gnat, a caterpillar or a cat what they can tell you about the " power and enery of life " . They can't tell you anything because they don't ow those concepts and the language to express it. If you really would go into it and ponder it you would remain with empty hands - which is not very impressive. Werner > > > > > > > > > Life has always been *spiritualized*; if we know this with > > > certainity, we live it. > > > > > > How can we not? > > > > > > ~A > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2008 Report Share Posted September 22, 2008 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " <kailashana@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " <kailashana@> > > > > > > > > Physical life and spiritual life meet at the intersection > > > > of duality... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ana, what please is " intersection of duality " ? > > > > > > When so called " duality " is just the categories of thought then > what > > > is is its " intersection " ? > > > > > > And when so called " spiritual " life is just mental day-dreaming > then > > > how does this day-dreaming meet that funny " intersection ? > > > > > > Ok, I admit that " phisical life and spiritual life meet at the > > > intersection of duality " sounds very impressive .. congrats > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > Spirit in my vocabulary means *the power and energy of Life of > > Being*...We know what death *looks* like; but we hardly know > > what life *feels* like. Most of us are in denial. > > > > ~Anna > > > > > Hm, I still can't let you go with this, Ana, > > What we experience of " Being " is just that which consciousness offers > and allows to. Therefore consciousness and " Being " is the same. A: I would use the word *awareness*. Awareness is empty save for *consciousness*. Consciousness is of our senses... Including the subtle ones as they evolve in our chakras - centers of energy. > > The " power and energy of life " is just a romantic concept. It is an > idea and nothing more. > > Just ask a plant, a mushroom, a gnat, a caterpillar or a cat what > they can tell you about the " power and enery of life " . They can't > tell you anything because they don't ow those concepts and the > language to express it. A: So would you agree that *sentience* and the *power* to communicate is what *separates* humans from mushrooms... (even though some mushrooms have the power to push human minds beyond any here-to-fore awareness or communications). > > If you really would go into it and ponder it you would remain with > empty hands - which is not very impressive. > > Werner Empty hands are peaceful hands... goes along with a full heart. Love. ~A > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Life has always been *spiritualized*; if we know this with > > > > certainity, we live it. > > > > > > > > How can we not? > > > > > > > > ~A > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2008 Report Share Posted September 22, 2008 > > > > Physical life and spiritual life meet at the intersection > > of duality... > > > > > Ana, what please is " intersection of duality " ? > > When so called " duality " is just the categories of thought then what > is is its " intersection " ? > > And when so called " spiritual " life is just mental day-dreaming then > how does this day-dreaming meet that funny " intersection ? BINGO ! Werner Anna thinks of her 'meetings " inside " with online man as a spiritual life... > Ok, I admit that " phisical life and spiritual life meet at the > intersection of duality " sounds very impressive .. congrats > > Werner Impressive horseshit is her language imho.. > > Life has always been *spiritualized*; if we know this with > > certainity, we live it. > > > > How can we not? > > > > ~A > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2008 Report Share Posted September 22, 2008 > > > BINGO ! Werner Anna thinks of her 'meetings " inside " with online man > as a spiritual life... Era......What in the hell is wrong with you? toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2008 Report Share Posted September 22, 2008 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > > > > > > > BINGO ! Werner Anna thinks of her 'meetings " inside " with online man > > as a spiritual life... > > > > Era......What in the hell is wrong with you? > > > > toombaru > Perhaps Era is experiencing an existential crisis. And no one can help her... Perhaps her relationship with Flemming is over. Who knows? I can't help her. Maybe you can. ~A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2008 Report Share Posted September 22, 2008 Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " <kailashana wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > BINGO ! Werner Anna thinks of her 'meetings " inside " with online man > > > as a spiritual life... > > > > > > > > Era......What in the hell is wrong with you? > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > Perhaps Era is experiencing an existential crisis. And no one can > help her... Perhaps her relationship with Flemming is over. Who > knows? I can't help her. > > Maybe you can. > > ~A > Most people will do anything to avoid turning inward. Sometimes its funny.........sometimes it's painful to watch. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2008 Report Share Posted September 24, 2008 Nisargadatta , " Eric Berg " <khufumen wrote: > > I have read " I Am That " and Thanks. I have read little bit of Bible, myself. > am currently reading " Seeds of Consciousness " . Thanks. I am thinking of reading " Pro Spring " . > I can feel the Truth in the written words but it has > led me into some difficulties which I hope someone > here might be able > to point me in the right direction. What you mean by " right " direction? What is " right " and " wrong " for you. > > If the death of my body is the death > of my conscious being and I merge > back into the Absolute then it seems > to me there is no purpose in what > I do. Why should I bother to meditate > on " I Am " versus someone who > doesn't since we all go to the same > place when our bodies die. Why do we have sex, if even after having terrific sex multiple times and for longest time with deepest orgasms, we can still die in the end? > Whether you're Hitler or a saint. It seems to > make no difference. Yeah... live like a Tom Cruise, a Bill Gates or a homeless dude, in the end, all die. I wonder why some people prefer to be one way only. Do you have an idea? > Why would > Nisargadatta ask his disciples to > meditate on " I Am " if there is no > benefit? What are the benefits of 'deep orgasm'? What are the benefits of listening to a beautiful peace of music? Would you do that, even there was no 'benefit' in doing so i.e. would you do it even if nobody paid you to have orgasm? > What good is gaining awareness > of self when death of the > body, mind, and consciousness levels the > playing field for everyone. Why do we have sex, if even after having terrific sex multiple times and for longest time with deepest orgasms, we can still die in the end? > > I am perplexed and am asking for > some help in understanding. > > Thanks, > Eric > Huang Po might " help " : A: Enlightenment springs from Mind, regardless of your practice of the six paramitas and the rest. All such practices are merely expedients for handling 'concrete' matters when dealing with the problems of daily life. Even Enlightenment, the Absolute, Reality, Sudden Attainment, the Dharmakaya and all the others down to the Ten Stages of Progress, the Four Rewards of virtuous and wise living and the State of Holiness and Wisdom are, every one of them, mere concepts for helping us through samsara; they have nothing to do with the real Buddha-Mind. ~Huang Po Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2008 Report Share Posted September 27, 2008 [...] Perhaps, Ramana Maharshi too can help: Happiness is your nature. It is not wrong to desire it. What is wrong is seeking it outside when it is inside. " Nearly all mankind is more or less unhappy because nearly all do not know the true Self. Real happiness abides in Self-knowledge alone. All else is fleeting. To know one's Self is to be blissful always. " " The world is so unhappy because it is ignorant of the true Self. Man's real nature is happiness. Happiness is inborn in the true Self. Man's search for happiness is an unconscious search for his true Self. The true Self is imperishable; therefore, when a man finds it, he finds a happiness, which does not come to an end. Or, maybe, Byron Katie: " I am never unhappy, you can achieve that as well. " " If I say, if I talk about, 'I want to be enlightened…' it implies a future. And there isn't any. " " So there's only transcendence in the moment. Nobody can be transcended forever. That's why I say, 'who cares if you're enlightened forever? " IOW... enlightenment, realization, meditation, samadhi, bliss... is for 'here and now' not for some imagined, distant, unknown future. [NNB] > > If the death of my body is the death > > of my conscious being and I merge > > back into the Absolute then it seems > > to me there is no purpose in what > > I do. Why should I bother to meditate > > on " I Am " versus someone who > > doesn't since we all go to the same > > place when our bodies die. > > Why do we have sex, if even after having > terrific sex multiple times and for longest > time with deepest orgasms, we can still > die in the end? > > > > Whether you're Hitler or a saint. It seems to > > make no difference. > > Yeah... live like a Tom Cruise, a Bill Gates > or a homeless dude, in the end, all die. > I wonder why some people prefer to be one > way only. Do you have an idea? > > > > Why would > > Nisargadatta ask his disciples to > > meditate on " I Am " if there is no > > benefit? > > What are the benefits of 'deep orgasm'? > > What are the benefits of listening to a beautiful > peace of music? > > Would you do that, even there was no 'benefit' > in doing so i.e. would you do it even if nobody > paid you to have orgasm? > > > > > What good is gaining awareness > > of self when death of the > > body, mind, and consciousness levels the > > playing field for everyone. > > Why do we have sex, if even after having > terrific sex multiple times and for longest > time with deepest orgasms, we can still > die in the end? > > > > > > I am perplexed and am asking for > > some help in understanding. > > > > Thanks, > > Eric > > > Huang Po might " help " : > > A: Enlightenment springs from Mind, > regardless of your practice of the six > paramitas and the rest. All such > practices are merely expedients for > handling 'concrete' matters when > dealing with the problems of daily > life. > > > Even Enlightenment, the Absolute, > Reality, Sudden Attainment, the > Dharmakaya and all the others down to > the Ten Stages of Progress, the Four > Rewards of virtuous and wise living and > the State of Holiness and Wisdom are, > every one of them, mere concepts for > helping us through samsara; they have > nothing to do with the real Buddha-Mind. > > > ~Huang Po > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2008 Report Share Posted September 27, 2008 Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " <adithya_comming wrote: > > [...] > > Perhaps, Ramana Maharshi too > can help: > > > Happiness is your nature. It is not wrong to > desire it. What is wrong is seeking it outside > when it is inside. > > " Nearly all mankind is more or less unhappy > because nearly all do not know the true Self. > Real happiness abides in Self-knowledge alone. > All else is fleeting. > To know one's Self > is to be blissful always. " > > > " The world is so unhappy because > it is ignorant of the true Self. > Man's real nature is happiness. > Happiness is inborn in the true Self. > Man's search for happiness is an > unconscious search for his true Self. > The true Self is imperishable; > therefore, when a man finds it, he > finds a happiness, which does not come to an end. > > The nature and function of the illusory self is not to BE happy but to search for happiness. It did not evolve......nor is it able.... to attain a state of bliss but functions only to drive the organism onward through its own delusional dream. It is merely a survival mechanism. And when it becomes identified as one's ultimate reality......only fear and confusion result. As identification shifts from the limited to the limitless.....the self continues its day to day tedium.....but now it is perceived as a most amusing side show occurring within the edgelessness. No longer is it the center of gravity around which the dream swirls. The center spreads into everywhere. It is that empty-fullness that can only be described as " bliss " . toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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