Guest guest Posted September 23, 2008 Report Share Posted September 23, 2008 Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " <kailashana wrote: > > Since we begin with words in order to communicate, and the -ologies > are those branches of *higher* learnings that have evolved in order to > better understand *realities*, the question is how do humans begin to > unravel this *Gordian Knot* we have created with all our *understanding*? > > We are, of course, the genus Homo Sapiens... > (Sapience the ability of an organism or entity to act with judgment.) > > Ego is no more than self-identification. Quite necessary in > functioning in any *world*, nondual or otherwise. > > *Killing* the ego has been an unnecessary misunderstood *practice*. > We don't go about consciously *killing* anything in a world in which > we are trying to understand. > > Its very motive is suspect. > > We unlearn what we have *learned*. *Learned* wo/men have shown us the > *Way*. > > > ~A *killing* the ego...?........must be *practise* for/of some ego- freaks......indeed.... Marc Ps: ego involves also a working mind.... mind can work nicely....finding the right path......getting free.... mind can also work badly.....destructive.....and so, remain in darkness.....without even knowing about ...... only ego-minds can imagine to be already free....or that such liberation don't exists......or whatever nice excuses.....to remain in darkness ....... liberation Is ego is Not....and never will be anything for real > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 23, 2008 Report Share Posted September 23, 2008 anabebe57 wrote: > Since we begin with words in order to communicate, and the -ologies > are those branches of *higher* learnings that have evolved in order to > better understand *realities*, the question is how do humans begin to > unravel this *Gordian Knot* we have created with all our *understanding*? > > We are, of course, the genus Homo Sapiens... > (Sapience the ability of an organism or entity to act with judgment.) > > Ego is no more than self-identification. Quite necessary in > functioning in any *world*, nondual or otherwise. > > *Killing* the ego has been an unnecessary misunderstood *practice*. > We don't go about consciously *killing* anything in a world in which > we are trying to understand. > > Its very motive is suspect. > > We unlearn what we have *learned*. *Learned* wo/men have shown us the > *Way*. > > > ~A > > > I agree A, We do need to unlearn what we have learned but we must know what it is we need to unlearn before we unlearn it, other wise we are fumbling around in the darkness, so to speak. In my opinion, we are needing to unlearn the unconscious and violent behaviours and thought forms. We are needing to begin a learning of love and compassion, to learn to communicate in a positive and constructive manner. That's about it in an nutshell, in my opinion. I must admit though, I'm still attempting to unlearn those hostile learnings that I was brought up with. tyga Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 23, 2008 Report Share Posted September 23, 2008 Nisargadatta , tyga <tyga wrote: > > anabebe57 wrote: > > Since we begin with words in order to communicate, and the -ologies > > are those branches of *higher* learnings that have evolved in order to > > better understand *realities*, the question is how do humans begin to > > unravel this *Gordian Knot* we have created with all our *understanding*? > > > > We are, of course, the genus Homo Sapiens... > > (Sapience the ability of an organism or entity to act with judgment.) > > > > Ego is no more than self-identification. Quite necessary in > > functioning in any *world*, nondual or otherwise. > > > > *Killing* the ego has been an unnecessary misunderstood *practice*. > > We don't go about consciously *killing* anything in a world in which > > we are trying to understand. > > > > Its very motive is suspect. > > > > We unlearn what we have *learned*. *Learned* wo/men have shown us the > > *Way*. > > > > > > ~A > > > > > > > I agree A, > > We do need to unlearn what we have learned but we must know what it is > we need to unlearn before we unlearn it, other wise we are fumbling > around in the darkness, so to speak. > > In my opinion, we are needing to unlearn the unconscious and violent > behaviours and thought forms. We are needing to begin a learning of love > and compassion, to learn to communicate in a positive and constructive > manner. That's about it in an nutshell, in my opinion. > > I must admit though, I'm still attempting to unlearn those hostile > learnings that I was brought up with. > > > tyga > Tyga, Ponder your idiotic Love-Peace-and-Compassion ideal and throw it off-board. Behind every ideal sits the inability to stand pain. Creating an ideal is the brain's usual automatic reaction when meeting an unpleasent situation. When you feel tension caused by a person or a situation then this tension was invoked by a prior ideal which already was sitting in your memory. Every tension arises through that clash between an ideal and reality. As long as you carry with you an ideal then sooner or later it must cause tensions when meeting a reality which contradicts the standards of that ideal. So: Instead of " unlearning those hostile learnings that you were brought up with " better try to find out which ideal was sitting behind a tension you had to suffer from. Directly realizing how tension is caused by an indeal you carried with you will end that ideal and throw it out of your system - if you aren't that stubborn to hold on to it There is no need to unlearn. Werner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2008 Report Share Posted September 24, 2008 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Nisargadatta , tyga <tyga@> wrote: > > > > anabebe57 wrote: > > > Since we begin with words in order to communicate, and the -ologies > > > are those branches of *higher* learnings that have evolved in order to > > > better understand *realities*, the question is how do humans begin to > > > unravel this *Gordian Knot* we have created with all our > *understanding*? > > > > > > We are, of course, the genus Homo Sapiens... > > > (Sapience the ability of an organism or entity to act with judgment.) > > > > > > Ego is no more than self-identification. Quite necessary in > > > functioning in any *world*, nondual or otherwise. > > > > > > *Killing* the ego has been an unnecessary misunderstood *practice*. > > > We don't go about consciously *killing* anything in a world in which > > > we are trying to understand. > > > > > > Its very motive is suspect. > > > > > > We unlearn what we have *learned*. *Learned* wo/men have shown us the > > > *Way*. > > > > > > > > > ~A > > > > > > > > > > > I agree A, > > > > We do need to unlearn what we have learned but we must know what it is > > we need to unlearn before we unlearn it, other wise we are fumbling > > around in the darkness, so to speak. > > > > In my opinion, we are needing to unlearn the unconscious and violent > > behaviours and thought forms. We are needing to begin a learning of > love > > and compassion, to learn to communicate in a positive and constructive > > manner. That's about it in an nutshell, in my opinion. > > > > I must admit though, I'm still attempting to unlearn those hostile > > learnings that I was brought up with. > > > > > > tyga > > > > > Tyga, > > Ponder your idiotic Love-Peace-and-Compassion ideal and throw it > off-board. > > Behind every ideal sits the inability to stand pain. Creating an ideal > is the brain's usual automatic reaction when meeting an unpleasent > situation. > > When you feel tension caused by a person or a situation then this > tension was invoked by a prior ideal which already was sitting in your > memory. > > Every tension arises through that clash between an ideal and reality. > > As long as you carry with you an ideal then sooner or later it must > cause tensions when meeting a reality which contradicts the standards > of that ideal. > > So: > Instead of " unlearning those hostile learnings that you were brought > up with " better try to find out which ideal was sitting behind a > tension you had to suffer from. > > Directly realizing how tension is caused by an indeal you carried with > you will end that ideal and throw it out of your system - if you > aren't that stubborn to hold on to it > > There is no need to unlearn. > > Werner > The attempt to correct the content of one's ideals is the attempt to establish another. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2008 Report Share Posted September 24, 2008 Nisargadatta , tyga <tyga wrote: > > anabebe57 wrote: > > Since we begin with words in order to communicate, and the -ologies > > are those branches of *higher* learnings that have evolved in order to > > better understand *realities*, the question is how do humans begin to > > unravel this *Gordian Knot* we have created with all our *understanding*? > > > > We are, of course, the genus Homo Sapiens... > > (Sapience the ability of an organism or entity to act with judgment.) > > > > Ego is no more than self-identification. Quite necessary in > > functioning in any *world*, nondual or otherwise. > > > > *Killing* the ego has been an unnecessary misunderstood *practice*. > > We don't go about consciously *killing* anything in a world in which > > we are trying to understand. > > > > Its very motive is suspect. > > > > We unlearn what we have *learned*. *Learned* wo/men have shown us the > > *Way*. > > > > > > ~A > > > > > > > I agree A, > > We do need to unlearn what we have learned but we must know what it is > we need to unlearn before we unlearn it, other wise we are fumbling > around in the darkness, so to speak. > > In my opinion, we are needing to unlearn the unconscious and violent > behaviours and thought forms. We are needing to begin a learning of love > and compassion, to learn to communicate in a positive and constructive > manner. That's about it in an nutshell, in my opinion. > > I must admit though, I'm still attempting to unlearn those hostile > learnings that I was brought up with. > > > tyga > There is no person outside of the accumulation of memories to fix. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2008 Report Share Posted September 24, 2008 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , tyga <tyga@> wrote: > > > > anabebe57 wrote: > > > Since we begin with words in order to communicate, and the -ologies > > > are those branches of *higher* learnings that have evolved in order to > > > better understand *realities*, the question is how do humans begin to > > > unravel this *Gordian Knot* we have created with all our *understanding*? > > > > > > We are, of course, the genus Homo Sapiens... > > > (Sapience the ability of an organism or entity to act with judgment.) > > > > > > Ego is no more than self-identification. Quite necessary in > > > functioning in any *world*, nondual or otherwise. > > > > > > *Killing* the ego has been an unnecessary misunderstood *practice*. > > > We don't go about consciously *killing* anything in a world in which > > > we are trying to understand. > > > > > > Its very motive is suspect. > > > > > > We unlearn what we have *learned*. *Learned* wo/men have shown us the > > > *Way*. > > > > > > > > > ~A > > > > > > > > > > > I agree A, > > > > We do need to unlearn what we have learned but we must know what it is > > we need to unlearn before we unlearn it, other wise we are fumbling > > around in the darkness, so to speak. > > > > In my opinion, we are needing to unlearn the unconscious and violent > > behaviours and thought forms. We are needing to begin a learning of love > > and compassion, to learn to communicate in a positive and constructive > > manner. That's about it in an nutshell, in my opinion. > > > > I must admit though, I'm still attempting to unlearn those hostile > > learnings that I was brought up with. > > > > > > tyga > There is no person outside of the accumulation of memories to fix. > > > > toombaru > Hmmm. Taking your *statement* to its logical conclusion it would seem to me, you are saying there's nothing to *fix*? I beg to differ. ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2008 Report Share Posted September 24, 2008 Werner Woehr wrote: >> >> I agree A, >> >> We do need to unlearn what we have learned but we must know what it is >> we need to unlearn before we unlearn it, other wise we are fumbling >> around in the darkness, so to speak. >> >> In my opinion, we are needing to unlearn the unconscious and violent >> behaviours and thought forms. We are needing to begin a learning of >> > love > >> and compassion, to learn to communicate in a positive and constructive >> manner. That's about it in an nutshell, in my opinion. >> >> I must admit though, I'm still attempting to unlearn those hostile >> learnings that I was brought up with. >> >> >> tyga >> >> > > > Tyga, > > Ponder your idiotic Love-Peace-and-Compassion ideal and throw it > off-board. > I'm curious, why do you need to perceive love and compassion as idiotic? Why do you feel you need to discard anything? Do you feel that denial is a preferred state of mind to one of love and compassion? > Behind every ideal sits the inability to stand pain. Creating an ideal > is the brain's usual automatic reaction when meeting an unpleasent > situation. > I disagree. People can be motivated for many different reasons, one of those reasons might be pain. I wonder, what motivates you to be so nihilistic? > When you feel tension caused by a person or a situation then this > tension was invoked by a prior ideal which already was sitting in your > memory. > Yes indeed, I understand. So you perceive the solution to pain is to discard any practical solution, like replacing those negative formed ideas with more positive, more constructive ideas, for example? > Every tension arises through that clash between an ideal and reality. > > As long as you carry with you an ideal then sooner or later it must > cause tensions when meeting a reality which contradicts the standards > of that ideal. > Such is life. > So: > Instead of " unlearning those hostile learnings that you were brought > up with " better try to find out which ideal was sitting behind a > tension you had to suffer from. > Isn't that the same thing? > Directly realizing how tension is caused by an indeal you carried with > you will end that ideal and throw it out of your system - if you > aren't that stubborn to hold on to it > > There is no need to unlearn. > > Werner > > Wouldn't unlearning be essentially the same thing as discarding, I mean once something is unlearned, it no longer serves and purpose? tyga Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2008 Report Share Posted September 24, 2008 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , tyga <tyga@> wrote: > > > > > > anabebe57 wrote: > > > > Since we begin with words in order to communicate, and the -ologies > > > > are those branches of *higher* learnings that have evolved in order to > > > > better understand *realities*, the question is how do humans begin to > > > > unravel this *Gordian Knot* we have created with all our > > *understanding*? > > > > > > > > We are, of course, the genus Homo Sapiens... > > > > (Sapience the ability of an organism or entity to act with judgment.) > > > > > > > > Ego is no more than self-identification. Quite necessary in > > > > functioning in any *world*, nondual or otherwise. > > > > > > > > *Killing* the ego has been an unnecessary misunderstood *practice*. > > > > We don't go about consciously *killing* anything in a world in which > > > > we are trying to understand. > > > > > > > > Its very motive is suspect. > > > > > > > > We unlearn what we have *learned*. *Learned* wo/men have shown us the > > > > *Way*. > > > > > > > > > > > > ~A > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree A, > > > > > > We do need to unlearn what we have learned but we must know what it is > > > we need to unlearn before we unlearn it, other wise we are fumbling > > > around in the darkness, so to speak. > > > > > > In my opinion, we are needing to unlearn the unconscious and violent > > > behaviours and thought forms. We are needing to begin a learning of > > love > > > and compassion, to learn to communicate in a positive and constructive > > > manner. That's about it in an nutshell, in my opinion. > > > > > > I must admit though, I'm still attempting to unlearn those hostile > > > learnings that I was brought up with. > > > > > > > > > tyga > > > > > > > > > Tyga, > > > > Ponder your idiotic Love-Peace-and-Compassion ideal and throw it > > off-board. > > > > Behind every ideal sits the inability to stand pain. Creating an ideal > > is the brain's usual automatic reaction when meeting an unpleasent > > situation. > > > > When you feel tension caused by a person or a situation then this > > tension was invoked by a prior ideal which already was sitting in your > > memory. > > > > Every tension arises through that clash between an ideal and reality. > > > > As long as you carry with you an ideal then sooner or later it must > > cause tensions when meeting a reality which contradicts the standards > > of that ideal. > > > > So: > > Instead of " unlearning those hostile learnings that you were brought > > up with " better try to find out which ideal was sitting behind a > > tension you had to suffer from. > > > > Directly realizing how tension is caused by an indeal you carried with > > you will end that ideal and throw it out of your system - if you > > aren't that stubborn to hold on to it > > > > There is no need to unlearn. > > > > Werner > The attempt to correct the content of one's ideals is the attempt to establish another. > > > toombaru > Very true, Toomb, And so I hope that no one reading my post about ideals was that stupid to interpret it that way. What I suggested and emphasized was letting go of one's ideals. Werner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2008 Report Share Posted September 24, 2008 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , tyga <tyga@> wrote: > > > > > > > > anabebe57 wrote: > > > > > Since we begin with words in order to communicate, and the > -ologies > > > > > are those branches of *higher* learnings that have evolved in > order to > > > > > better understand *realities*, the question is how do humans > begin to > > > > > unravel this *Gordian Knot* we have created with all our > > > *understanding*? > > > > > > > > > > We are, of course, the genus Homo Sapiens... > > > > > (Sapience the ability of an organism or entity to act with > judgment.) > > > > > > > > > > Ego is no more than self-identification. Quite necessary in > > > > > functioning in any *world*, nondual or otherwise. > > > > > > > > > > *Killing* the ego has been an unnecessary misunderstood > *practice*. > > > > > We don't go about consciously *killing* anything in a world in > which > > > > > we are trying to understand. > > > > > > > > > > Its very motive is suspect. > > > > > > > > > > We unlearn what we have *learned*. *Learned* wo/men have > shown us the > > > > > *Way*. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~A > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree A, > > > > > > > > We do need to unlearn what we have learned but we must know what > it is > > > > we need to unlearn before we unlearn it, other wise we are fumbling > > > > around in the darkness, so to speak. > > > > > > > > In my opinion, we are needing to unlearn the unconscious and > violent > > > > behaviours and thought forms. We are needing to begin a learning of > > > love > > > > and compassion, to learn to communicate in a positive and > constructive > > > > manner. That's about it in an nutshell, in my opinion. > > > > > > > > I must admit though, I'm still attempting to unlearn those hostile > > > > learnings that I was brought up with. > > > > > > > > > > > > tyga > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tyga, > > > > > > Ponder your idiotic Love-Peace-and-Compassion ideal and throw it > > > off-board. > > > > > > Behind every ideal sits the inability to stand pain. Creating an ideal > > > is the brain's usual automatic reaction when meeting an unpleasent > > > situation. > > > > > > When you feel tension caused by a person or a situation then this > > > tension was invoked by a prior ideal which already was sitting in your > > > memory. > > > > > > Every tension arises through that clash between an ideal and reality. > > > > > > As long as you carry with you an ideal then sooner or later it must > > > cause tensions when meeting a reality which contradicts the standards > > > of that ideal. > > > > > > So: > > > Instead of " unlearning those hostile learnings that you were brought > > > up with " better try to find out which ideal was sitting behind a > > > tension you had to suffer from. > > > > > > Directly realizing how tension is caused by an indeal you carried with > > > you will end that ideal and throw it out of your system - if you > > > aren't that stubborn to hold on to it > > > > > > There is no need to unlearn. > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The attempt to correct the content of one's ideals is the attempt to > establish another. > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > Very true, Toomb, > > And so I hope that no one reading my post about ideals was that stupid > to interpret it that way. > > What I suggested and emphasized was letting go of one's ideals. > > Werner > The only reason that one would attempt such a thing would to gain another ideal. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2008 Report Share Posted September 24, 2008 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , tyga <tyga@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > anabebe57 wrote: > > > > > > Since we begin with words in order to communicate, and the > > -ologies > > > > > > are those branches of *higher* learnings that have evolved in > > order to > > > > > > better understand *realities*, the question is how do humans > > begin to > > > > > > unravel this *Gordian Knot* we have created with all our > > > > *understanding*? > > > > > > > > > > > > We are, of course, the genus Homo Sapiens... > > > > > > (Sapience the ability of an organism or entity to act with > > judgment.) > > > > > > > > > > > > Ego is no more than self-identification. Quite necessary in > > > > > > functioning in any *world*, nondual or otherwise. > > > > > > > > > > > > *Killing* the ego has been an unnecessary misunderstood > > *practice*. > > > > > > We don't go about consciously *killing* anything in a world in > > which > > > > > > we are trying to understand. > > > > > > > > > > > > Its very motive is suspect. > > > > > > > > > > > > We unlearn what we have *learned*. *Learned* wo/men have > > shown us the > > > > > > *Way*. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~A > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree A, > > > > > > > > > > We do need to unlearn what we have learned but we must know what > > it is > > > > > we need to unlearn before we unlearn it, other wise we are > fumbling > > > > > around in the darkness, so to speak. > > > > > > > > > > In my opinion, we are needing to unlearn the unconscious and > > violent > > > > > behaviours and thought forms. We are needing to begin a > learning of > > > > love > > > > > and compassion, to learn to communicate in a positive and > > constructive > > > > > manner. That's about it in an nutshell, in my opinion. > > > > > > > > > > I must admit though, I'm still attempting to unlearn those > hostile > > > > > learnings that I was brought up with. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tyga > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tyga, > > > > > > > > Ponder your idiotic Love-Peace-and-Compassion ideal and throw it > > > > off-board. > > > > > > > > Behind every ideal sits the inability to stand pain. Creating an > ideal > > > > is the brain's usual automatic reaction when meeting an unpleasent > > > > situation. > > > > > > > > When you feel tension caused by a person or a situation then this > > > > tension was invoked by a prior ideal which already was sitting > in your > > > > memory. > > > > > > > > Every tension arises through that clash between an ideal and > reality. > > > > > > > > As long as you carry with you an ideal then sooner or later it must > > > > cause tensions when meeting a reality which contradicts the > standards > > > > of that ideal. > > > > > > > > So: > > > > Instead of " unlearning those hostile learnings that you were brought > > > > up with " better try to find out which ideal was sitting behind a > > > > tension you had to suffer from. > > > > > > > > Directly realizing how tension is caused by an indeal you > carried with > > > > you will end that ideal and throw it out of your system - if you > > > > aren't that stubborn to hold on to it > > > > > > > > There is no need to unlearn. > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The attempt to correct the content of one's ideals is the attempt to > > establish another. > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > Very true, Toomb, > > > > And so I hope that no one reading my post about ideals was that stupid > > to interpret it that way. > > > > What I suggested and emphasized was letting go of one's ideals. > > > > Werner > > > > > The only reason that one would attempt such a thing would to gain > another ideal. > > > > > toombaru > No, Toomb, not at all. If one sees the danger of ideals, of any ideal, then one will let it go, die to it and no longer hold on to it. Letting go an ideal is an act of intelligence but the cultivating of ideals breeds endless misery and tensoions. Werner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2008 Report Share Posted September 24, 2008 Werner Woehr wrote: > I'm curious, why do you need to perceive love and compassion as idiotic ? > > > Tyga, > > Can't you read ? > > I did not say that. I wrote that the > " ideal " < of love and compassion > is idiottic. > > It seems that you can't differ between an actuality and its ideal. > Fair enough, but it ought be obvious to us both that love and compassion are not ideals, they are emotions. You are suggesting then that the ideal of practising human interaction with love and compassion, ought be discarded? > > >> Why do you feel you need to discard anything? Do you feel that >> > denial is > >> a preferred state of mind to one of love and compassion? >> > > > Can't you read ? > > I suggested to discard the ideal and not the actual. Can't you see the > difference ? > > so, it makes no more sense for me to go on with that. > > Werner > > > Can you see how your communication would severe both of us better, if it was approached from the ideal of love and compassion? I understand if you might feel frustrated? I get frustrated too when my communication is taken out of context or not perceived how I might have intended it to be perceived but if I communicate that need to be understood better, then the communication might flow better and then I might full fill my need to be understood correctly. Is that a fair enough assessment? tyga Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2008 Report Share Posted September 24, 2008 Nisargadatta , tyga <tyga wrote: > > Werner Woehr wrote: > > I'm curious, why do you need to perceive love and compassion as idiotic ? > > > > > > Tyga, > > > > Can't you read ? > > > > I did not say that. I wrote that the > " ideal " < of love and compassion > > is idiottic. > > > > It seems that you can't differ between an actuality and its ideal. > > > > Fair enough, but it ought be obvious to us both that love and compassion > are not ideals, they are emotions. > > You are suggesting then that the ideal of practising human interaction > with love and compassion, ought be discarded? > > > > > > >> Why do you feel you need to discard anything? Do you feel that > >> > > denial is > > > >> a preferred state of mind to one of love and compassion? > >> > > > > > > Can't you read ? > > > > I suggested to discard the ideal and not the actual. Can't you see the > > difference ? > > > > so, it makes no more sense for me to go on with that. > > > > Werner > > > > > > > Can you see how your communication would severe both of us better, if it > was approached from the ideal of love and compassion? > > I understand if you might feel frustrated? I get frustrated too when my > communication is taken out of context or not perceived how I might have > intended it to be perceived but if I communicate that need to be > understood better, then the communication might flow better and then I > might full fill my need to be understood correctly. Is that a fair > enough assessment? > > > > tyga > Tyga, Sorry, but talking about love and compassion without living it is plain hypocricy, I even would call it a crime, the crime of blinding naive souls with words. And please see it: Conscious virtue is vanity ! As soon as your are conscious of your love and compassion, vanity has overtaken. Werner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2008 Report Share Posted September 24, 2008 Werner Woehr wrote: > > Tyga, > > Sorry, but talking about love and compassion without living it is > plain hypocricy, I even would call it a crime, the crime of blinding > naive souls with words. > > And please see it: Conscious virtue is vanity ! > > As soon as your are conscious of your love and compassion, vanity has > overtaken. > > Werner > > > > > > --- > So how do you suggest we " live " our lives? tyga Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2008 Report Share Posted September 24, 2008 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , tyga <tyga@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > anabebe57 wrote: > > > > > > > Since we begin with words in order to communicate, and the > > > -ologies > > > > > > > are those branches of *higher* learnings that have evolved in > > > order to > > > > > > > better understand *realities*, the question is how do humans > > > begin to > > > > > > > unravel this *Gordian Knot* we have created with all our > > > > > *understanding*? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We are, of course, the genus Homo Sapiens... > > > > > > > (Sapience the ability of an organism or entity to act with > > > judgment.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ego is no more than self-identification. Quite necessary in > > > > > > > functioning in any *world*, nondual or otherwise. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Killing* the ego has been an unnecessary misunderstood > > > *practice*. > > > > > > > We don't go about consciously *killing* anything in a world in > > > which > > > > > > > we are trying to understand. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its very motive is suspect. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We unlearn what we have *learned*. *Learned* wo/men have > > > shown us the > > > > > > > *Way*. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~A > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree A, > > > > > > > > > > > > We do need to unlearn what we have learned but we must know what > > > it is > > > > > > we need to unlearn before we unlearn it, other wise we are > > fumbling > > > > > > around in the darkness, so to speak. > > > > > > > > > > > > In my opinion, we are needing to unlearn the unconscious and > > > violent > > > > > > behaviours and thought forms. We are needing to begin a > > learning of > > > > > love > > > > > > and compassion, to learn to communicate in a positive and > > > constructive > > > > > > manner. That's about it in an nutshell, in my opinion. > > > > > > > > > > > > I must admit though, I'm still attempting to unlearn those > > hostile > > > > > > learnings that I was brought up with. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tyga > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tyga, > > > > > > > > > > Ponder your idiotic Love-Peace-and-Compassion ideal and throw it > > > > > off-board. > > > > > > > > > > Behind every ideal sits the inability to stand pain. Creating an > > ideal > > > > > is the brain's usual automatic reaction when meeting an unpleasent > > > > > situation. > > > > > > > > > > When you feel tension caused by a person or a situation then this > > > > > tension was invoked by a prior ideal which already was sitting > > in your > > > > > memory. > > > > > > > > > > Every tension arises through that clash between an ideal and > > reality. > > > > > > > > > > As long as you carry with you an ideal then sooner or later it > must > > > > > cause tensions when meeting a reality which contradicts the > > standards > > > > > of that ideal. > > > > > > > > > > So: > > > > > Instead of " unlearning those hostile learnings that you were > brought > > > > > up with " better try to find out which ideal was sitting behind a > > > > > tension you had to suffer from. > > > > > > > > > > Directly realizing how tension is caused by an indeal you > > carried with > > > > > you will end that ideal and throw it out of your system - if you > > > > > aren't that stubborn to hold on to it > > > > > > > > > > There is no need to unlearn. > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The attempt to correct the content of one's ideals is the attempt to > > > establish another. > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > Very true, Toomb, > > > > > > And so I hope that no one reading my post about ideals was that stupid > > > to interpret it that way. > > > > > > What I suggested and emphasized was letting go of one's ideals. > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > The only reason that one would attempt such a thing would to gain > > another ideal. > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > No, Toomb, not at all. > > If one sees the danger of ideals, of any ideal, then one will let it > go, die to it and no longer hold on to it. > > Letting go an ideal is an act of intelligence but the cultivating of > ideals breeds endless misery and tensoions. > > Werner > It is the source of tension (the illusory self) that seeks relief from it. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2008 Report Share Posted September 24, 2008 Nisargadatta , tyga <tyga wrote: > > Werner Woehr wrote: > > > > Tyga, > > > > Sorry, but talking about love and compassion without living it is > > plain hypocricy, I even would call it a crime, the crime of blinding > > naive souls with words. > > > > And please see it: Conscious virtue is vanity ! > > > > As soon as your are conscious of your love and compassion, vanity has > > overtaken. > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > --- > > > So how do you suggest we " live " our lives? > > tyga > See that there is no you living it. t. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2008 Report Share Posted September 27, 2008 Nisargadatta , tyga <tyga wrote: > > Werner Woehr wrote: > > > > Tyga, > > > > Sorry, but talking about love and compassion without living it is > > plain hypocricy, I even would call it a crime, the crime of blinding > > naive souls with words. > > > > And please see it: Conscious virtue is vanity ! > > > > As soon as your are conscious of your love and compassion, vanity has > > overtaken. > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > --- > > > So how do you suggest we " live " our lives? > > tyga > FROM clear undrstanding no one is living their lives. not you, not anyone,you do nothing but take credit for living, just sit back and watch the show their's nothing left to do.. gary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2008 Report Share Posted September 27, 2008 juliusw007 wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> --- >>> >>> >> So how do you suggest we " live " our lives? >> >> tyga >> >> > FROM clear undrstanding no one is living their lives. not you, not > anyone,you do nothing but take credit for living, just sit back and > watch the show their's nothing left to do.. gary > > > --- > > ** > > Yeah that makes sense but it isn't very practical. If some one asks for directions to where ever it is they are needing to be, do you tell them that there are no directions, there is no place to be, it is all just an illusion, or do you direct them to where they need to go to get where ever they need to be? When your stomach gives you the indication that you need to eat, do you just sit back and watch as you starve to death? I remember reading that Nis run a small shop in order that he might support his family. How do you think that responsibility for ones physical and mental needs and supporting ones family can be met by just " sitting back and watching the show, nothing left to do " ? tyga Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2008 Report Share Posted September 28, 2008 I`m considering the following: When my breath goes out do " I " deceide to 'breath it back in'? When 'I' am hungry did 'I' do that. When the sun comes up did 'I' do that? When 'I' move theses fingers.....did 'I' do this? When 'I' was born did 'I' born me? I`m getting a different perspective now........did 'I' do this? There was a little boy who had a 'toy stearing wheel' in his dads car When dad drove the car the little boy believed he was controling the auto. One day the dad turned his wheel to the right when the boy turned his to the left. The littl boy learned that he was not the doer. The story doesn`t end here cause the dad was realizing that he wasn`t really the cause of his own thoughts... [a guy checking out the chain of causation concept]. ONENESS...dispells the belief and EVEN THE EXPERIENCE of a 'chain of causation'.....as there is no such thing as TWO or MORE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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