Guest guest Posted September 26, 2008 Report Share Posted September 26, 2008 Hi I'm newly joined but I have been in this group before. Nis said that we cannot know what we are. It's also been said that we are nothing. We are beyond consciousness, beyond awareness even. Can THAT be said to exist at all? Is the presence-awareness that Sailor Bob talks about the same as the consciousness, the " I-am-ness " ? When it is said that you are identified with something, for example, you are attached or identified to the concept " I " , what is it exactly, that is attached? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2008 Report Share Posted September 26, 2008 Nisargadatta , " mister_benn210 " <mister_benn210 wrote: > > Hi > > I'm newly joined but I have been in this group before. > > Nis said that we cannot know what we are. It's also been said that we > are nothing. We are beyond consciousness, beyond awareness even. Can > THAT be said to exist at all? > > Is the presence-awareness that Sailor Bob talks about the same as the > consciousness, the " I-am-ness " ? > > When it is said that you are identified with something, for example, > you are attached or identified to the concept " I " , what is it exactly, > that is attached? to question 3....few words... concepts results from the illusion to be this & that.... the illusion to be this & that is always related to concepts... illusion and concept got together .... in fact, there is nobody for real who could be attached to anything Marc > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2008 Report Share Posted September 26, 2008 Nisargadatta , " mister_benn210 " <mister_benn210 wrote: > > Hi > > I'm newly joined but I have been in this group before. > > Nis said that we cannot know what we are. For the conceptual mind there is within that statement the assumption of an existential self that cannot know what it is. What Nisargadatta meant was the " we " cannot know what " we " and " other " are simply because the I amness exists only as a closed conceptual-self-refernetial loop. It cannot know or be known simply because it does not exist. It's also been said that we > are nothing. Again conceptual thought starts with the assumption of I amness an then negates its own assumption. The loop has to be seen for what it is before the conceptual structure is seen through. It will remain in place but will be seen as a conceptual overlay. It is the " dream of separation " and for the I amness there is no other reality. Beyond and engulfing that is the " Naturalness " in which the dream emerges. That is the world that cannot be spoken of in conceptual terms. It can be experienced but not by the conceptual mind and its phantom self. " So " ....the conceptual mind says..... " How can I get there? " It simply can't. Because it's already there. Funny huh? We are beyond consciousness, beyond awareness even. Can > THAT be said to exist at all? " We " are not beyond consciousness.........We are the result of consciousness. We are the whirlpool trying to see the river. We are the wave...contemplating the ocean. > > Is the presence-awareness that Sailor Bob talks about the same as the > consciousness, the " I-am-ness " ? No. Presence-awareness is the natural condition. Identification with conceptual objects is the overlay. The wave cannot see the ocean......The ocean cannot see the wave. > > When it is said that you are identified with something, for example, > you are attached or identified to the concept " I " , what is it exactly, > that is attached? > You are not identified with objectivity. You are the illusory result of the identification process. Oh look......there's a baby deer. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2008 Report Share Posted September 27, 2008 Nisargadatta , " mister_benn210 " <mister_benn210 wrote: > > Hi > > I'm newly joined but I have been in this group before. > > Nis said that we cannot know what we are. It's also been said that we > are nothing. We are beyond consciousness, beyond awareness even. Can > THAT be said to exist at all? > > Is the presence-awareness that Sailor Bob talks about the same as the > consciousness, the " I-am-ness " ? > > When it is said that you are identified with something, for example, > you are attached or identified to the concept " I " , what is it exactly, > that is attached? > when you ask others for help or direction...you are turned away from the source... when you take the food that comes from others...you are still turned away from your source... ....when you understand that all you can really do is to turn away from the source...there is a stop...and that stop or understanding is the turning point...because then the childisch play in the teatre is finished...and you will sit back and be who you are...watching the show go on and on and on...til the actors drop dead on the floor... ....iietsa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 2008 Report Share Posted September 29, 2008 > We are beyond consciousness, beyond awareness even. Can > > THAT be said to exist at all? > > > > > > " We " are not beyond consciousness.........We are the result of > consciousness. > > We are the whirlpool trying to see the river. > > We are the wave...contemplating the ocean. Thanks for your (and the other posters) comments. The idea of the I- am-ness existing only as a " closed conceptual-self-referebtial loop " is very interesting. But, when I said " we " which is really " I " , I didn't mean this thing that doesn't really exists, but I was refering to what Nisargadatta meant when he was refering to THAT. THAT is beyond awareness. That which can have no-name but is our essential nature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 2008 Report Share Posted September 29, 2008 > ...when you understand that all you can really do is to turn away from > the source...there is a stop...and that stop or understanding is the > turning point...because then the childish play in the theatre is > finished...and you will sit back and be who you are...watching the show > go on and on and on...til the actors drop dead on the floor... > ...iietsa Reminds me of a song by Bindu called " The Dream is Over " . It sounds depressing, I have so say. As was the song. It sounds like giving up. It sounds like death. How can you function in the world without desire, or drive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 2008 Report Share Posted September 29, 2008 Nisargadatta , " mister_benn210 " <mister_benn210 wrote: > > > ...when you understand that all you can really do is to turn away > from > > the source...there is a stop...and that stop or understanding is the > > turning point...because then the childish play in the theatre is > > finished...and you will sit back and be who you are...watching the > show > > go on and on and on...til the actors drop dead on the floor... > > ...iietsa > > Reminds me of a song by Bindu called " The Dream is Over " . It sounds > depressing, I have so say. As was the song. It sounds like giving up. > It sounds like death. How can you function in the world without desire, > or drive? > The world Is about " desire or drive " ....this is All the world is about. So, nothing realy special with/about the world. So, " you " are already the result of a world based on " desire or drive " . The world is already the result of a " you " based on " desire or drive " . etc Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 2008 Report Share Posted September 29, 2008 Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " mister_benn210 " > <mister_benn210@> wrote: > > > > > ...when you understand that all you can really do is to turn away > > from > > > the source...there is a stop...and that stop or understanding is > the > > > turning point...because then the childish play in the theatre is > > > finished...and you will sit back and be who you are...watching the > > show > > > go on and on and on...til the actors drop dead on the floor... > > > ...iietsa > > > > Reminds me of a song by Bindu called " The Dream is Over " . It sounds > > depressing, I have so say. As was the song. It sounds like giving up. > > It sounds like death. How can you function in the world without > desire, > > or drive? > > > > > The world Is about " desire or drive " ....this is All the world is about. > > So, nothing realy special with/about the world. > > So, " you " are already the result of a world based on " desire or drive " . > > The world is already the result of a " you " based on " desire or drive " . > > etc > > > Marc > And isn't it amazing that something in the world becomes aware of that? t. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 30, 2008 Report Share Posted September 30, 2008 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " mister_benn210 " > > <mister_benn210@> wrote: > > > > > > > ...when you understand that all you can really do is to turn away > > > from > > > > the source...there is a stop...and that stop or understanding is > > the > > > > turning point...because then the childish play in the theatre is > > > > finished...and you will sit back and be who you are...watching the > > > show > > > > go on and on and on...til the actors drop dead on the floor... > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > Reminds me of a song by Bindu called " The Dream is Over " . It sounds > > > depressing, I have so say. As was the song. It sounds like giving up. > > > It sounds like death. How can you function in the world without > > desire, > > > or drive? > > > > > > > > > The world Is about " desire or drive " ....this is All the world is about. > > > > So, nothing realy special with/about the world. > > > > So, " you " are already the result of a world based on " desire or drive " . > > > > The world is already the result of a " you " based on " desire or drive " . > > > > etc > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > And isn't it amazing that something in the world becomes aware of that? > > > > > t. yes Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 30, 2008 Report Share Posted September 30, 2008 Nisargadatta , " mister_benn210 " <mister_benn210 wrote: > > > ...when you understand that all you can really do is to turn away > from > > the source...there is a stop...and that stop or understanding is the > > turning point...because then the childish play in the theatre is > > finished...and you will sit back and be who you are...watching the > show > > go on and on and on...til the actors drop dead on the floor... > > ...iietsa > > Reminds me of a song by Bindu called " The Dream is Over " . It sounds > depressing, I have so say. As was the song. It sounds like giving up. > It sounds like death. How can you function in the world without desire, > or drive? > " depressing " is just a foolish way to relate to what has no value... and to run like a maddog because of some desire is not better... its that sort of (life) that keeps you blind and unhappy... even if you get a bone once in a while... " death " or " giving up " if it is done the right way... is a beautyful no-thing... first ask yourself honestly... " what do I really want ? " ....iietsa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 30, 2008 Report Share Posted September 30, 2008 Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " mister_benn210 " > <mister_benn210@> wrote: > > > > > ...when you understand that all you can really do is to turn away > > from > > > the source...there is a stop...and that stop or understanding is > the > > > turning point...because then the childish play in the theatre is > > > finished...and you will sit back and be who you are...watching the > > show > > > go on and on and on...til the actors drop dead on the floor... > > > ...iietsa > > > > Reminds me of a song by Bindu called " The Dream is Over " . It sounds > > depressing, I have so say. As was the song. It sounds like giving up. > > It sounds like death. How can you function in the world without > desire, > > or drive? > > > > " depressing " is just a foolish way to relate to what has no value... > and to run like a maddog because of some desire is not better... > its that sort of (life) that keeps you blind and unhappy... > even if you get a bone once in a while... > > " death " or " giving up " if it is done the right way... > is a beautyful no-thing... > > first ask yourself honestly... " what do I really want ? " > ...iietsa > My hair back? 8-0 toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 30, 2008 Report Share Posted September 30, 2008 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " mister_benn210 " > > <mister_benn210@> wrote: > > > > > > > ...when you understand that all you can really do is to turn away > > > from > > > > the source...there is a stop...and that stop or understanding is > > the > > > > turning point...because then the childish play in the theatre is > > > > finished...and you will sit back and be who you are...watching the > > > show > > > > go on and on and on...til the actors drop dead on the floor... > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > Reminds me of a song by Bindu called " The Dream is Over " . It sounds > > > depressing, I have so say. As was the song. It sounds like giving up. > > > It sounds like death. How can you function in the world without > > desire, > > > or drive? > > > > > > > " depressing " is just a foolish way to relate to what has no value... > > and to run like a maddog because of some desire is not better... > > its that sort of (life) that keeps you blind and unhappy... > > even if you get a bone once in a while... > > > > " death " or " giving up " if it is done the right way... > > is a beautyful no-thing... > > > > first ask yourself honestly... " what do I really want ? " > > ...iietsa > > > > > > My hair back? > > > > 8-0 > > > toombaru > Toomie, you get three wishes.....the first two are mine.... and yours is *Hair*? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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