Guest guest Posted September 27, 2008 Report Share Posted September 27, 2008 Challenging the reality of the subjective world requires that the objective world remain in tact as a foundation from which the challenge is effected. Challenging the objective reality of the perceived world requires that subjectivity be accepted as possessing a separate existential reality. Only when the objective and the subjective are seen as one delusional perspective does the conceptual overlay loose its opacity. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2008 Report Share Posted September 27, 2008 toombaru2006 wrote: > > > Challenging the reality of the subjective world requires that the > objective world remain in tact as a foundation from which the > challenge is effected. > > Challenging the objective reality of the perceived world requires that > subjectivity be accepted as possessing a separate existential reality. > > Only when the objective and the subjective are seen as one delusional > perspective does the conceptual overlay loose its opacity. > > > > toombaru > And then what? tyga Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2008 Report Share Posted September 27, 2008 Nisargadatta , tyga <tyga wrote: > > toombaru2006 wrote: > > > > > > Challenging the reality of the subjective world requires that the > > objective world remain in tact as a foundation from which the > > challenge is effected. > > > > Challenging the objective reality of the perceived world requires that > > subjectivity be accepted as possessing a separate existential reality. > > > > Only when the objective and the subjective are seen as one delusional > > perspective does the conceptual overlay loose its opacity. > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > And then what? > > tyga > Not much *happens* in the mental positioning department. It is what it is. I am who I am. However, the joy of being alive is almost unspeakable... And things continue to happen.... I am/we are all part of this unfathomable dream, playing all parts and yet.... ~A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2008 Report Share Posted September 27, 2008 ok--- On Sat, 9/27/08, anabebe57 <kailashana wrote: anabebe57 <kailashana Re: Two WorldsNisargadatta Date: Saturday, September 27, 2008, 5:39 PM Nisargadatta, tyga <tyga wrote:>> toombaru2006 wrote:> >> >> > Challenging the reality of the subjective world requires that the> > objective world remain in tact as a foundation from which the> > challenge is effected.> >> > Challenging the objective reality of the perceived world requires that> > subjectivity be accepted as possessing a separate existentialreality.> >> > Only when the objective and the subjective are seen as one delusional> > perspective does the conceptual overlay loose its opacity.> >> >> >> > toombaru> > > And then what?> > tyga>Not much *happens* in the mental positioning department. It is whatit is. I am who I am. However, the joy of being alive is almost unspeakable. .. And thingscontinue to happen.... I am/we are all part of this unfathomabledream, playing all parts and yet....~A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2008 Report Share Posted September 27, 2008 Nisargadatta , tyga <tyga wrote: > > toombaru2006 wrote: > > > > > > Challenging the reality of the subjective world requires that the > > objective world remain in tact as a foundation from which the > > challenge is effected. > > > > Challenging the objective reality of the perceived world requires that > > subjectivity be accepted as possessing a separate existential reality. > > > > Only when the objective and the subjective are seen as one delusional > > perspective does the conceptual overlay loose its opacity. > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > And then what? > > tyga > Everything you were searching for disappears. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2008 Report Share Posted September 27, 2008 toombaru2006 wrote: > > > > > Everything you were searching for disappears. > > > > > > toombaru > > > --- > > How do you know? tyga Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2008 Report Share Posted September 28, 2008 Nisargadatta , tyga <tyga wrote: > > toombaru2006 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Everything you were searching for disappears. > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > --- > > > > > How do you know? > > tyga > Well......That's the oddest thing: The me that believes that it is the center of the world.....the sense of being a separate, autonomous self....doesn't know that at all. It only knows.......that it passed through a very strange catharsis in which its entire world totally disappeared......and then reappeared. For it.......it's pretty much business as usual. Only now........it is completely surrounded in the most pristine emptiness. Now there is a knowingness that identifies with the emptiness and lets the dream character pretty much pretend that it is the doer. ...........Oh yeah........and there is that bliss thing that spreads out wherever the entity looks. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2008 Report Share Posted September 28, 2008 toombaru2006 wrote: > > > > > > Well......That's the oddest thing: > > > The me that believes that it is the center of the world.....the sense > of being a separate, autonomous self....doesn't know that at all. > Is that the " me " that is talking now? If so, then why should I read any further? > > It only knows.......that it passed through a very strange catharsis in > which its entire world totally disappeared......and then reappeared. > > For it.......it's pretty much business as usual. > Like when you go to sleep and wake up 8 hours later with barely any clue as what has transpired, except for a few vague memories of some sort of surreal experience of some sort but mostly emptiness? > > Only now........it is completely surrounded in the most pristine > emptiness. > The " me " is surrounded by pristine emptiness? So does the " me " know something of emptiness now? " The me that believes that it is the center of the world.....the sense of being a separate, autonomous self....doesn't know that at all. " > > Now there is a knowingness that identifies with the emptiness and lets > the dream character pretty much pretend that it is the doer. > The knowingness? Who or what is this knowingness? > > ..........Oh yeah........and there is that bliss thing that spreads > out wherever the entity looks. > Bliss is an emotion isn't it? Aren't emotions an aspect of the illusionary human identity? > > toombaru > > --- > tyga Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2008 Report Share Posted September 28, 2008 Nisargadatta , tyga <tyga wrote: > > toombaru2006 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Well......That's the oddest thing: > > > > > > The me that believes that it is the center of the world.....the sense > > of being a separate, autonomous self....doesn't know that at all. > > > > Is that the " me " that is talking now? If so, then why should I read any > further? Mostly because you don't have a choice. LOL > > > > > It only knows.......that it passed through a very strange catharsis in > > which its entire world totally disappeared......and then reappeared. > > > > For it.......it's pretty much business as usual. > > > > Like when you go to sleep and wake up 8 hours later with barely any clue > as what has transpired, except for a few vague memories of some sort of > surreal experience of some sort but mostly emptiness? No.......Not like that at all. It was in the middle of the night. I woke up with the complete apperception that things...as separate entities....did not exist at all. Previous to that there had been an intellectual understanding that there was no such thing as a mountain or the state of Texas....but this was a complete understanding that things simply did not and could not have an existential reality. Once that was integrated into the syntax of thought the question arose concerning the reality of the inventor of things. There arose a great fear of oblivion.......and I had no desire to go any further. After some time with a nausea filled the psyche......I thought: " Oh.......what the hell......this is what you have been asking for " ....and simply let go. What happened next is very difficult to describe.....everything just came apart......and then there was nothing.......not a nothing that was a something......it was just nothing. The same thing happened once when I had a dream of Ramana and he stared into my I's......but that time the emptiness was not experienced. As you know it is impossible to speak of these events simply because conceptual thought is the arena in which the whole illusion emerges. Nisargadatta equates it with: " Washing blood with blood. " > > > > > Only now........it is completely surrounded in the most pristine > > emptiness. > > > > The " me " is surrounded by pristine emptiness? So does the " me " know > something of emptiness now? As much as the wind could know about stillness. The self is the antithesis to the emptiness.....and yet they are the same. (shrugging shoulders) > > " The me that believes that it is the center of the world.....the sense > of being a separate, autonomous self....doesn't know that at all. " > > > > > > > Now there is a knowingness that identifies with the emptiness and lets > > the dream character pretty much pretend that it is the doer. > > > > The knowingness? Who or what is this knowingness? It is the knowing that can never be known. I am not trying to be elusive......but that is as close as I can come with words right now. There are some things that even the best artists cannot capture in paint. > > > > > ..........Oh yeah........and there is that bliss thing that spreads > > out wherever the entity looks. > > > > Bliss is an emotion isn't it? Aren't emotions an aspect of the > illusionary human identity? > > > " Bliss " is as close as a word can come. Peace.....ease of being........frictionless emotion.....alive presence...... It is known that every'thing' is flowing seemlessly. It is known that every'thing' is happening as it has to.......including my worrying about how much money I lost in the stock market.......and my wife's failing heath. I enjoyed this conversation. If you ever pass through the Central Coast of California.....stop by. Meeting face to face can be great fun. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2008 Report Share Posted September 28, 2008 toombaru2006 wrote: > Nisargadatta , tyga <tyga wrote: > >> toombaru2006 wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> >>> Well......That's the oddest thing: >>> >>> >>> The me that believes that it is the center of the world.....the sense >>> of being a separate, autonomous self....doesn't know that at all. >>> >>> >> Is that the " me " that is talking now? If so, then why should I read any >> further? >> > > > > > Mostly because you don't have a choice. > > > LOL > That's the rub, that we 'have to' communicate with these inadequate words which are formulated by an insufficient mind which can never know what it is we are attempting to express to one another. I so wish we could bridge the divide which doesn't exist. > > > > > >>> It only knows.......that it passed through a very strange catharsis in >>> which its entire world totally disappeared......and then reappeared. >>> >>> For it.......it's pretty much business as usual. >>> >>> >> Like when you go to sleep and wake up 8 hours later with barely any >> > clue > >> as what has transpired, except for a few vague memories of some sort of >> surreal experience of some sort but mostly emptiness? >> > > > > > No.......Not like that at all. > > It was in the middle of the night. > > I woke up with the complete apperception that things...as separate > entities....did not exist at all. > > Previous to that there had been an intellectual understanding that > there was no such thing as a mountain or the state of Texas....but > this was a complete understanding that things simply did not and could > not have an existential reality. > > Once that was integrated into the syntax of thought the question arose > concerning the reality of the inventor of things. > > There arose a great fear of oblivion.......and I had no desire to go > any further. > > After some time with a nausea filled the psyche......I thought: > > " Oh.......what the hell......this is what you have been asking > for " ....and simply let go. > > What happened next is very difficult to describe.....everything just > came apart......and then there was nothing.......not a nothing that > was a something......it was just nothing. > > The same thing happened once when I had a dream of Ramana and he > stared into my I's......but that time the emptiness was not experienced. > > > As you know it is impossible to speak of these events simply because > conceptual thought is the arena in which the whole illusion emerges. > > Nisargadatta equates it with: > " Washing blood with blood. " > I haven't actually experienced what you describe but I have experienced something similar. What I experienced was probably similar to where about you thought you ought to stop. Briefly, I use to suffer terribly from anxiety/panic attacks. The nature of my attacks was almost entirely mental, in that I experienced existential anxiety without the usual physical symptoms normally associated with panic disorder. I really have no words to accurately describe the experience except that everything became meaningless and completely dreadful, I was overwhelmingly terrified and confused. All of my identity and everything that was familiar to me, including " myself " , fell apart and crumbled during these episodes. I would feel as though I was in the middle of this surreal storm where nothing was real, not even the nothing, there was literally nothing and no-nothing to identify with or hold onto. Often I use to feel as though I would completely lose my mind and be trapped in that hell forever. I suspect that was the great fear of oblivion? > > > > > > > > > >>> Only now........it is completely surrounded in the most pristine >>> emptiness. >>> >>> >> The " me " is surrounded by pristine emptiness? So does the " me " know >> something of emptiness now? >> > > > > > As much as the wind could know about stillness. > > The self is the antithesis to the emptiness.....and yet they are the same. > > (shrugging shoulders) > LOL, I'm happy that you can admit that there are some things which cannot be described or explained simply because the description and/or the explanation becomes what that thing isn't, if you know what I mean? > > > > > > > > >> " The me that believes that it is the center of the world.....the sense >> of being a separate, autonomous self....doesn't know that at all. " >> >> >> >> >>> Now there is a knowingness that identifies with the emptiness and lets >>> the dream character pretty much pretend that it is the doer. >>> >>> >> The knowingness? Who or what is this knowingness? >> It is the knowing that can never be known. > > > I am not trying to be elusive......but that is as close as I can come > with words right now. > > > There are some things that even the best artists cannot capture in paint. > True, I am somewhat of an amateur artist myself and I know for a fact that attempting to paint an idea can be extremely frustrating. At some point you just have to admit to yourself, that some things cannot be accurately expressed. > > > > > > > >>> ..........Oh yeah........and there is that bliss thing that spreads >>> out wherever the entity looks. >>> >>> >> Bliss is an emotion isn't it? Aren't emotions an aspect of the >> illusionary human identity? >> >> > > > > " Bliss " is as close as a word can come. > > Peace.....ease of being........frictionless emotion.....alive > presence...... > > It is known that every'thing' is flowing seemlessly. > > It is known that every'thing' is happening as it has > to.......including my worrying about how much money I lost in the > stock market.......and my wife's failing heath. > > > > > > I enjoyed this conversation. > > If you ever pass through the Central Coast of California.....stop by. > > Meeting face to face can be great fun. > > > toombaru > > > I would love to pass through that way toombaru, unfortunately California is a looooong way from Melbourne Australia and I doubt I'll be visiting the USA any time soon. An expensive trip unfortunately. If you ever make it down here, I would love to have a face to face, I rarely ever get to speak to people like yourself in my daily life apart from places like here for example. tyga Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2008 Report Share Posted September 28, 2008 Nisargadatta , tyga <tyga wrote: > > toombaru2006 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , tyga <tyga@> wrote: > > > >> toombaru2006 wrote: > >> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Well......That's the oddest thing: > >>> > >>> > >>> The me that believes that it is the center of the world.....the sense > >>> of being a separate, autonomous self....doesn't know that at all. > >>> > >>> > >> Is that the " me " that is talking now? If so, then why should I read any > >> further? > >> > > > > > > > > > > Mostly because you don't have a choice. > > > > > > LOL > > > > That's the rub, that we 'have to' communicate with these inadequate > words which are formulated by an insufficient mind which can never know > what it is we are attempting to express to one another. > > I so wish we could bridge the divide which doesn't exist. > > > There is a great loneliness within illusion of separation. I believe that that is part of the programming. The self's function evolved because it helps the physical organism survive and reproduce. Identification does, however, have a down side. It is not designed to be happy.....it is designed to seek happiness. > > > > > > > > > >>> It only knows.......that it passed through a very strange catharsis in > >>> which its entire world totally disappeared......and then reappeared. > >>> > >>> For it.......it's pretty much business as usual. > >>> > >>> > >> Like when you go to sleep and wake up 8 hours later with barely any > >> > > clue > > > >> as what has transpired, except for a few vague memories of some sort of > >> surreal experience of some sort but mostly emptiness? > >> > > > > > > > > > > No.......Not like that at all. > > > > It was in the middle of the night. > > > > I woke up with the complete apperception that things...as separate > > entities....did not exist at all. > > > > Previous to that there had been an intellectual understanding that > > there was no such thing as a mountain or the state of Texas....but > > this was a complete understanding that things simply did not and could > > not have an existential reality. > > > > Once that was integrated into the syntax of thought the question arose > > concerning the reality of the inventor of things. > > > > There arose a great fear of oblivion.......and I had no desire to go > > any further. > > > > After some time with a nausea filled the psyche......I thought: > > > > " Oh.......what the hell......this is what you have been asking > > for " ....and simply let go. > > > > What happened next is very difficult to describe.....everything just > > came apart......and then there was nothing.......not a nothing that > > was a something......it was just nothing. > > > > The same thing happened once when I had a dream of Ramana and he > > stared into my I's......but that time the emptiness was not experienced. > > > > > > As you know it is impossible to speak of these events simply because > > conceptual thought is the arena in which the whole illusion emerges. > > > > Nisargadatta equates it with: > > " Washing blood with blood. " > > > > I haven't actually experienced what you describe but I have experienced > something similar. What I experienced was probably similar to where > about you thought you ought to stop. For the I amness...it is the abyss. It becomes very uncomfortable...even panics as it approaches the edge of its familiar world. It has good reason the be frightened and is programmed to avoid anything that can threaten its imaginary existence. > > Briefly, I use to suffer terribly from anxiety/panic attacks. The nature > of my attacks was almost entirely mental, in that I experienced > existential anxiety without the usual physical symptoms normally > associated with panic disorder. I really have no words to accurately > describe the experience except that everything became meaningless and > completely dreadful, I was overwhelmingly terrified and confused. All of > my identity and everything that was familiar to me, including " myself " , > fell apart and crumbled during these episodes. I too spent many years dealing with severe panic attacks and the depression that most often accompanies the anxiety. Occasionally they return......but now they have lost their teeth. :-) Looking back.....they seem to be a necessary.....albeit painful breaking down and through process. I would feel as though I > was in the middle of this surreal storm where nothing was real, not even > the nothing, there was literally nothing and no-nothing to identify with > or hold onto. Often I use to feel as though I would completely lose my > mind and be trapped in that hell forever. > > I suspect that was the great fear of oblivion? I believe that it is the fear of oblivion. The terror and confusion is indescribable. I bow to you and what you endured. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Only now........it is completely surrounded in the most pristine > >>> emptiness. > >>> > >>> > >> The " me " is surrounded by pristine emptiness? So does the " me " know > >> something of emptiness now? > >> > > > > > > > > > > As much as the wind could know about stillness. > > > > The self is the antithesis to the emptiness.....and yet they are the same. > > > > (shrugging shoulders) > > > > LOL, I'm happy that you can admit that there are some things which > cannot be described or explained simply because the description and/or > the explanation becomes what that thing isn't, if you know what I mean? > > I do. :-) It seems that the closer one gets to the Understanding the harder it is to describe. Sometimes..........it all comes together......and I think.... " Oh......This is what I have been searching for all my life " ........but when I try to share it or conceptualize it......it dematerializes. It's always there.......I just can't contain it. It contains me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> " The me that believes that it is the center of the world.....the sense > >> of being a separate, autonomous self....doesn't know that at all. " > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>> Now there is a knowingness that identifies with the emptiness and lets > >>> the dream character pretty much pretend that it is the doer. > >>> > >>> > >> The knowingness? Who or what is this knowingness? > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is the knowing that can never be known. > > > > > > I am not trying to be elusive......but that is as close as I can come > > with words right now. > > > > > > There are some things that even the best artists cannot capture in paint. > > > > True, I am somewhat of an amateur artist myself and I know for a fact > that attempting to paint an idea can be extremely frustrating. At some > point you just have to admit to yourself, that some things cannot be > accurately expressed. > > > It is frustrating. As the understanding deepens the reason for the frustration becomes apparent. Mind is asking questions about its own delusional-conceptual overlay all within the circularity of self. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> ..........Oh yeah........and there is that bliss thing that spreads > >>> out wherever the entity looks. > >>> > >>> > >> Bliss is an emotion isn't it? Aren't emotions an aspect of the > >> illusionary human identity? > >> > >> > > > > > > > > " Bliss " is as close as a word can come. > > > > Peace.....ease of being........frictionless emotion.....alive > > presence...... > > > > It is known that every'thing' is flowing seemlessly. > > > > It is known that every'thing' is happening as it has > > to.......including my worrying about how much money I lost in the > > stock market.......and my wife's failing heath. > > > > > > > > > > > > I enjoyed this conversation. > > > > If you ever pass through the Central Coast of California.....stop by. > > > > Meeting face to face can be great fun. > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > I would love to pass through that way toombaru, unfortunately California > is a looooong way from Melbourne Australia and I doubt I'll be visiting > the USA any time soon. An expensive trip unfortunately. > > If you ever make it down here, I would love to have a face to face, I > rarely ever get to speak to people like yourself in my daily life apart > from places like here for example. > > tyga > Yes. These are not questions that concern most people. Why would anyone seek their own ultimate emptiness? LOL I am fortunate to have a small group people in this little village who have traveled together many years in the trackless place. I think that I may have gone insane without them. Love toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2008 Report Share Posted September 28, 2008 .....After every turn of the screw, we return to Love. Elizabeth Barrett Browning's (1806-1861) poem says it all: How Do I Love Thee? How do I love thee? Let me count the ways. I love thee to the depth and breadth and height My soul can reach, when feeling out of sight For the ends of Being and ideal Grace. I love thee to the level of everyday's Most quiet need, by sun and candle-light. I love thee freely, as men strive for Right; I love thee purely, as they turn from Praise. I love thee with a passion put to use In my old griefs, and with my childhood's faith. I love thee with a love I seemed to lose With my lost saints, --- I love thee with the breath, Smiles, tears, of all my life! --- and, if God choose, I shall but love thee better after death. Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , tyga <tyga@> wrote: > > > > toombaru2006 wrote: > > > Nisargadatta , tyga <tyga@> wrote: > > > > > >> toombaru2006 wrote: > > >> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> Well......That's the oddest thing: > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> The me that believes that it is the center of the world.....the > sense > > >>> of being a separate, autonomous self....doesn't know that at all. > > >>> > > >>> > > >> Is that the " me " that is talking now? If so, then why should I > read any > > >> further? > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mostly because you don't have a choice. > > > > > > > > > LOL > > > > > > > That's the rub, that we 'have to' communicate with these inadequate > > words which are formulated by an insufficient mind which can never know > > what it is we are attempting to express to one another. > > > > I so wish we could bridge the divide which doesn't exist. > > > > > > > > > There is a great loneliness within illusion of separation. > > I believe that that is part of the programming. > > The self's function evolved because it helps the physical organism > survive and reproduce. > > Identification does, however, have a down side. > > It is not designed to be happy.....it is designed to seek happiness. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> It only knows.......that it passed through a very strange > catharsis in > > >>> which its entire world totally disappeared......and then reappeared. > > >>> > > >>> For it.......it's pretty much business as usual. > > >>> > > >>> > > >> Like when you go to sleep and wake up 8 hours later with barely any > > >> > > > clue > > > > > >> as what has transpired, except for a few vague memories of some > sort of > > >> surreal experience of some sort but mostly emptiness? > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No.......Not like that at all. > > > > > > It was in the middle of the night. > > > > > > I woke up with the complete apperception that things...as separate > > > entities....did not exist at all. > > > > > > Previous to that there had been an intellectual understanding that > > > there was no such thing as a mountain or the state of Texas....but > > > this was a complete understanding that things simply did not and could > > > not have an existential reality. > > > > > > Once that was integrated into the syntax of thought the question arose > > > concerning the reality of the inventor of things. > > > > > > There arose a great fear of oblivion.......and I had no desire to go > > > any further. > > > > > > After some time with a nausea filled the psyche......I thought: > > > > > > " Oh.......what the hell......this is what you have been asking > > > for " ....and simply let go. > > > > > > What happened next is very difficult to describe.....everything just > > > came apart......and then there was nothing.......not a nothing that > > > was a something......it was just nothing. > > > > > > The same thing happened once when I had a dream of Ramana and he > > > stared into my I's......but that time the emptiness was not > experienced. > > > > > > > > > As you know it is impossible to speak of these events simply because > > > conceptual thought is the arena in which the whole illusion emerges. > > > > > > Nisargadatta equates it with: > > > " Washing blood with blood. " > > > > > > > I haven't actually experienced what you describe but I have experienced > > something similar. What I experienced was probably similar to where > > about you thought you ought to stop. > > > > > For the I amness...it is the abyss. > > It becomes very uncomfortable...even panics as it approaches the edge > of its familiar world. > > It has good reason the be frightened and is programmed to avoid > anything that can threaten its imaginary existence. > > > Briefly, I use to suffer terribly from anxiety/panic attacks. The > nature > > of my attacks was almost entirely mental, in that I experienced > > existential anxiety without the usual physical symptoms normally > > associated with panic disorder. I really have no words to accurately > > describe the experience except that everything became meaningless and > > completely dreadful, I was overwhelmingly terrified and confused. > All of > > my identity and everything that was familiar to me, including " myself " , > > fell apart and crumbled during these episodes. > > > > > I too spent many years dealing with severe panic attacks and the > depression that most often accompanies the anxiety. > > Occasionally they return......but now they have lost their teeth. > > :-) > > Looking back.....they seem to be a necessary.....albeit painful > breaking down and through process. > > > > > I would feel as though I > > was in the middle of this surreal storm where nothing was real, not > even > > the nothing, there was literally nothing and no-nothing to identify > with > > or hold onto. Often I use to feel as though I would completely lose my > > mind and be trapped in that hell forever. > > > > I suspect that was the great fear of oblivion? I believe that it is the fear of oblivion. > > The terror and confusion is indescribable. > > I bow to you and what you endured. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Only now........it is completely surrounded in the most pristine > > >>> emptiness. > > >>> > > >>> > > >> The " me " is surrounded by pristine emptiness? So does the " me " know > > >> something of emptiness now? > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As much as the wind could know about stillness. > > > > > > The self is the antithesis to the emptiness.....and yet they are > the same. > > > > > > (shrugging shoulders) > > > > > > > LOL, I'm happy that you can admit that there are some things which > > cannot be described or explained simply because the description and/or > > the explanation becomes what that thing isn't, if you know what I mean? > > > > > > > I do. > > :-) > > > It seems that the closer one gets to the Understanding the harder it > is to describe. > > Sometimes..........it all comes together......and I > think.... " Oh......This is what I have been searching for all my > life " ........but when I try to share it or conceptualize it......it > dematerializes. > > It's always there.......I just can't contain it. > > It contains me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> " The me that believes that it is the center of the world.....the > sense > > >> of being a separate, autonomous self....doesn't know that at all. " > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >>> Now there is a knowingness that identifies with the emptiness > and lets > > >>> the dream character pretty much pretend that it is the doer. > > >>> > > >>> > > >> The knowingness? Who or what is this knowingness? > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is the knowing that can never be known. > > > > > > > > > I am not trying to be elusive......but that is as close as I can come > > > with words right now. > > > > > > > > > There are some things that even the best artists cannot capture in > paint. > > > > > > > True, I am somewhat of an amateur artist myself and I know for a fact > > that attempting to paint an idea can be extremely frustrating. At some > > point you just have to admit to yourself, that some things cannot be > > accurately expressed. > > > > > > > > > It is frustrating. > > As the understanding deepens the reason for the frustration becomes > apparent. > > Mind is asking questions about its own delusional-conceptual overlay > all within the circularity of self. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> ..........Oh yeah........and there is that bliss thing that spreads > > >>> out wherever the entity looks. > > >>> > > >>> > > >> Bliss is an emotion isn't it? Aren't emotions an aspect of the > > >> illusionary human identity? > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > " Bliss " is as close as a word can come. > > > > > > Peace.....ease of being........frictionless emotion.....alive > > > presence...... > > > > > > It is known that every'thing' is flowing seemlessly. > > > > > > It is known that every'thing' is happening as it has > > > to.......including my worrying about how much money I lost in the > > > stock market.......and my wife's failing heath. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I enjoyed this conversation. > > > > > > If you ever pass through the Central Coast of California.....stop by. > > > > > > Meeting face to face can be great fun. > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > I would love to pass through that way toombaru, unfortunately > California > > is a looooong way from Melbourne Australia and I doubt I'll be visiting > > the USA any time soon. An expensive trip unfortunately. > > > > If you ever make it down here, I would love to have a face to face, I > > rarely ever get to speak to people like yourself in my daily life apart > > from places like here for example. > > > > tyga > > > > > > > Yes. > > These are not questions that concern most people. > > Why would anyone seek their own ultimate emptiness? > > LOL > > I am fortunate to have a small group people in this little village who > have traveled together many years in the trackless place. > > I think that I may have gone insane without them. > > > > > Love > > > > > toombaru > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2008 Report Share Posted September 28, 2008 Well, I`m in Houston Texas with a small group of associates that talk this nonduality stuff. I remember Nisargadatta saying that HIS BODY WAS EXISTENCE ITSELF. It`s actually also and equally NONEXISTENCE. Having a group or no group make no difference to that which is all and nothing. BEYOND NEED as no-two Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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