Guest guest Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 In a message dated 10/30/2008 11:04:39 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, pedsie6 writes: > > > Selfhood> > > is the fencing of the landscape,> > > my little farm masquerading as> > > the sea of grass which is the plain.>> Pete, what's your view on why that happens, and why it goes on> happening regardless of one's intellectual understanding of the > process?>> Cheers,> Jack.P: Hi Jack,To me "why" is a social question. People havemotivations. They do things or not for certain reasonsor emotions to get certain results. In nature, there isno why, there are only what, how, where and when.I have found that when I pay complete attention tosights and sounds as if I were a tourist seeing anexotic place for the first time, this seeing is likelyto happen. This needs a wide focus intense attention,that produces an absorption which prevents thinking.I don't think how one explains its nature facilitates it or hindersit. If you say, it's God's will, and you pay the above attention,it happens as often as if you say It's matter, or the unknownseeing itself.>> http://cerosoul.wordpress.comhttp://awakefiction.wordpress.comPete Yes but......as you say, we operate according to desire and agenda, and being present without thought doesn't happen based on somebody else's recommendation of something good to do. It comes about through an understanding of the imprisoning nature of thought defining the self, and so the question of how this intense focus on the self arises and continues is of significance. Experience, itself, presupposes a subject/object split. There must be an experiencer and an experience, and part of the experience is that there are other experiencers that are having different experiences, so it's no mystery how it happens that this unique focal point of experience is assigned the label of an independent self who experiences. The attributes of this self are simply extensions built on that foundational assumption. When we look at this apparent experiencer, we notice the original assumption and we find that the person consists entirely of those extensions, or defining qualities and characteristics, and is actually devoid of a foundation. We notice that the experiencer, itself, is being experienced too, and so the self becomes just another part of experience. At this point, if mind were able to grasp the actual experiencer, it would be an easy matter to let go of the person who clearly doesn't have any reality anyway. However, mind is also part of the experience, consisting of 'thoughts about' the experience, and so mind functions only in the realm of subject/object. As mind looks for an object that is the real experiencer, it either conceptualizes one falsely or it draws a blank, since the experiencer is not an object at all but rather the subject; the same subject that is looking in mind for itself as an object. The bottom line is that the best mind can do is notice it's own misconceptions, and see that there really is no person here. At this point, there is nowhere else for mind to go, and meanwhile, mind is still bombarded by objective evidence of it's apparent existence. Mind is not involved in the event of subject noticing itself subjectively, and so it must recognize the futility of seeking it, and drop the seeking. Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. Check out Today's Hot 5 Travel Deals! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 On Oct 29, 2008, at 10:33 PM, xauxaux wrote: > NonDualPhil , xauxaux <no_reply wrote: > > > > NonDualPhil , Pesi <pedsie6@> wrote: > > > > > > Selfhood > > > is the fencing of the landscape, > > > my little farm masquerading as > > > the sea of grass which is the plain. > > Pete, what's your view on why that happens, and why it goes on > happening regardless of one's intellectual understanding of the > process? > > Cheers, > Jack. P: Hi Jack, To me " why " is a social question. People have motivations. They do things or not for certain reasons or emotions to get certain results. In nature, there is no why, there are only what, how, where and when. I have found that when I pay complete attention to sights and sounds as if I were a tourist seeing an exotic place for the first time, this seeing is likely to happen. This needs a wide focus intense attention, that produces an absorption which prevents thinking. I don't think how one explains its nature facilitates it or hinders it. If you say, it's God's will, and you pay the above attention, it happens as often as if you say It's matter, or the unknown seeing itself. > > http://cerosoul.wordpress.com http://awakefiction.wordpress.com Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 In a message dated 30/10/2008 1:49:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time, tyga writes: souldreamone wrote:>> > Yes but......as you say, we operate according to desire and> agenda, and being present without thought doesn't happen based on> somebody else's recommendation of something good to do. It comes> about through an understanding of the imprisoning nature of> thought defining the self, and so the question of how this intense> focus on the self arises and continues is of significance.> > Experience, itself, presupposes a subject/object split. There must> be an experiencer and an experience, and part of the experience is> that there are other experiencers that are having different> experiences, so it's no mystery how it happens that this unique> focal point of experience is assigned the label of an independent> self who experiences. The attributes of this self are simply> extensions built on that foundational assumption.> > When we look at this apparent experiencer, we notice the original> assumption and we find that the person consists entirely of those> extensions, or defining qualities and characteristics, and is> actually devoid of a foundation. We notice that the experiencer,> itself, is being experienced too, and so the self becomes just> another part of experience.> > At this point, if mind were able to grasp the actual experiencer,> it would be an easy matter to let go of the person who clearly> doesn't have any reality anyway. However, mind is also part of the> experience, consisting of 'thoughts about' the experience, and so> mind functions only in the realm of subject/object. As mind looks> for an object that is the real experiencer, it either> conceptualizes one falsely or it draws a blank, since the> experiencer is not an object at all but rather the subject; the> same subject that is looking in mind for itself as an object.> > The bottom line is that the best mind can do is notice it's own> misconceptions, and see that there really is no person here. At> this point, there is nowhere else for mind to go, and meanwhile,> mind is still bombarded by objective evidence of it's apparent> existence. Mind is not involved in the event of subject noticing> itself subjectively, and so it must recognize the futility of> seeking it, and drop the seeking.> > > >>>>> ------I might just add though......that seeking is very entertaining and can be a whole lot of fun. It has kept me chasing my tail for years. :)I think it is probably a wise idea to keep in mind that we only know as much as we are capable of understanding, the little human mind being only a very small meaty experiencing machine, which could not possibly be capable of comprehending all of existence.For example, what would a mind be like looking back at us from the tenth dimension? Assuming there are minds in the tenth dimension. Would our understanding of consciousness be quaintly absurd? I'm guessing it would be.Bear in mind that ten dimensional entails being capable of perceiving all possible realities in all possible universes. Intriguing no?tyga Lately, I seem to be seeking more and enjoying it less.Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. Check out Today's Hot 5 Travel Deals! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 souldreamone wrote: > > > Yes but......as you say, we operate according to desire and > agenda, and being present without thought doesn't happen based on > somebody else's recommendation of something good to do. It comes > about through an understanding of the imprisoning nature of > thought defining the self, and so the question of how this intense > focus on the self arises and continues is of significance. > > Experience, itself, presupposes a subject/object split. There must > be an experiencer and an experience, and part of the experience is > that there are other experiencers that are having different > experiences, so it's no mystery how it happens that this unique > focal point of experience is assigned the label of an independent > self who experiences. The attributes of this self are simply > extensions built on that foundational assumption. > > When we look at this apparent experiencer, we notice the original > assumption and we find that the person consists entirely of those > extensions, or defining qualities and characteristics, and is > actually devoid of a foundation. We notice that the experiencer, > itself, is being experienced too, and so the self becomes just > another part of experience. > > At this point, if mind were able to grasp the actual experiencer, > it would be an easy matter to let go of the person who clearly > doesn't have any reality anyway. However, mind is also part of the > experience, consisting of 'thoughts about' the experience, and so > mind functions only in the realm of subject/object. As mind looks > for an object that is the real experiencer, it either > conceptualizes one falsely or it draws a blank, since the > experiencer is not an object at all but rather the subject; the > same subject that is looking in mind for itself as an object. > > The bottom line is that the best mind can do is notice it's own > misconceptions, and see that there really is no person here. At > this point, there is nowhere else for mind to go, and meanwhile, > mind is still bombarded by objective evidence of it's apparent > existence. Mind is not involved in the event of subject noticing > itself subjectively, and so it must recognize the futility of > seeking it, and drop the seeking. > ------ I might just add though......that seeking is very entertaining and can be a whole lot of fun. It has kept me chasing my tail for years. I think it is probably a wise idea to keep in mind that we only know as much as we are capable of understanding, the little human mind being only a very small meaty experiencing machine, which could not possibly be capable of comprehending all of existence. For example, what would a mind be like looking back at us from the tenth dimension? Assuming there are minds in the tenth dimension. Would our understanding of consciousness be quaintly absurd? I'm guessing it would be. Bear in mind that ten dimensional entails being capable of perceiving all possible realities in all possible universes. Intriguing no? tyga Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 31, 2008 Report Share Posted October 31, 2008 souldreamone wrote: > > > I might just add though......that seeking is very entertaining and > can > be a whole lot of fun. It has kept me chasing my tail for years. > > I think it is probably a wise idea to keep in mind that we only > know as > much as we are capable of understanding, the little human mind being > only a very small meaty experiencing machine, which could not > possibly > be capable of comprehending all of existence. > > For example, what would a mind be like looking back at us from the > tenth > dimension? Assuming there are minds in the tenth dimension. Would our > understanding of consciousness be quaintly absurd? I'm guessing it > would be. > > Bear in mind that ten dimensional entails being capable of perceiving > all possible realities in all possible universes. Intriguing no? > > > tyga > > Lately, I seem to be seeking more and enjoying it less. > > > > ------ Really? I find it all so endlessly entertaining. tyga Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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