Guest guest Posted November 29, 2008 Report Share Posted November 29, 2008 In a message dated 11/29/2008 3:41:15 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, wwoehr writes: Nisargadatta , souldreamone wrote:>> > > > In a message dated 11/29/2008 2:23:14 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, > tyga writes:> > Werner Woehr wrote:> > Jiddu Krishnamurti quotes on Love> > > >> >> > Question: I am full of hate. Will you please teach me how to love?> >> > K: No one can teach you how to love. If people could be taught how to > > love, the world problem would be very simple, would it not? If we > > could learn how to love from a book as we learn mathematics, this > > would be a marvelous world; there would be no hate, no exploitation, > > no wars, no division of rich and poor, and we would all be really > > friendly with each other. But love is not so easily come by. It is > > easy to hate, and hate brings people together after a fashion; it > > creates all kinds of fantasies, it brings about various types of co-> > operation, as in war. But love is much more difficult. You cannot > > learn how to love, but what you can do is to observe hate and put it > > gently aside. Don't battle against hate, don't say how terrible it is > > to hate people, but see hate for what it is and let it drop away; > > brush it aside, it is not important. What is important is not to let > > hate take root in your mind. Do you understand? Your mind is like > > rich soil, and if given sufficient time any problem that comes along > > takes root like a weed, and then you have the trouble of pulling it > > out; but if you do not give the problem sufficient time to take root, > > then it has no place to grow and it will wither away. If you > > encourage hate, give it time to take root, to grow, to mature, it > > becomes an enormous problem. But if each time hate arises you let it > > go by, then you will find that your mind becomes very sensitive > > without being sentimental; therefore it will know love.> >> > The mind can pursue sensations, desires, but it cannot pursue love. > > Love must come to the mind. And, when once love is there, it has no > > division as sensuous and divine: it is love. That is the > > extraordinary thing about love: it is the only quality that brings a > > total comprehension of the whole of existence. > >> >> > More quotes here:> >> > http://www.katinkahesselink.net/kr/love.html> >> > Werner> >> >> >> > ---> >> > > I could be wrong, but I think Jiddu might have confused hate with fear.> > tyga> > > > > ***Not sure about confusing, but he does seem to be ignoring that fear is at > the root, and not so easily 'brushed away'.> >If fear easily can be brushed away would be a new topic, Phil.Maybe you haven't realized in my posts that I always try to write simple mails mostly strictly sticking to one topic and avoidung to introduce additional topics.Have you been into UG ? He said fear is part of life and if´fear is taken away you instantly would drop dead.Werner ***It's the same topic. If anger is an expression of fear, and fear is an unavoidable part of life, then anger arises viscerally and is not so easily brushed away; not any more so than the fear that it is meant to dissipate.Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 29, 2008 Report Share Posted November 29, 2008 > > Sorry, Rob, > > > > But I have enormous problems with your American English which is > > filled with slang and typical words and expressions you adopted from > > street gangs (I suppose). > > > > > > oh you're correct homey. > > I'za gangsta motherf***er. uh this was to incite that moving fear thing. just a fact check you know. LOL! > > When reading your posts I constantly have to search through the > > dictionary which for me is very strenuous because of my bad eyesight. > > > > > > relax. > and btw it's " constantly " not 'constantly'. this was an EYE check. you passed the test. you must be near blind. > > Sometimes I am lucky to find your special words but mostly not. > > > > Now: > > > > Fear is a movement away from. what is moving? (DON'T step to saying fear is what's moving..that says nothing) what is it moving away from? > > Life is a movement away from death. neither life nor death have any significance whatsoever. > > Therefore the movement of life is the movement of fear. that's a bunch of crap. life moves towards (the sun, 'others', death itself).. that's it's definition. it moves not not away from anything. if that were the case life would be stillborn. > > > > If fear is taken away you instantly will drop dead. > > > > Werner why aren't i dead then? ..b b.b. (encore below) > that's what i'm talkin' bout when i am talkin' 'bout ugK. > > he stopped being a creepy little frightened monkey of a sudden. > > he be dead now. > > he never was. > > the scared little soldier was a phantasm like we. > > so is the fear and the love and the hate and the joy.. > > and all brave-heart bullshit too. > > and the dumb science. > > and the philosophy and psychology. > > it's all of a piece and it's all bologna. > > frightened children using self created toys to try and understand.. > > what is.. and what it is that they are afraid of. > > the greatest of these phantom fears is death. > > that's stupid. > > what never was will never cease to be. > > there's no future in any of it. > > eat.. drink.. make Mary. > > there's nothing wrong with feeling good when your nobody. > > :-) > > .b b.b. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 29, 2008 Report Share Posted November 29, 2008 In a message dated 11/29/2008 4:24:22 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, kailashana writes: Nisargadatta , "Werner Woehr" <wwoehr wrote:>> Nisargadatta , "roberibus111" <Roberibus111@>> wrote:> >> > Nisargadatta , "Werner Woehr" <wwoehr@> wrote:> > >> > > Nisargadatta , souldreamone@ wrote:> >> > > > ***Not sure about confusing, but he does seem to be ignoringthat > > > fear is at > > > > the root, and not so easily 'brushed away'.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > If fear easily can be brushed away would be a new topic, Phil.> > > > > > Maybe you haven't realized in my posts that I always try to write > > > simple mails mostly strictly sticking to one topic and avoidung to > > > introduce additional topics.> > > > > > Have you been into UG ? He said fear is part of life and if´fear is > > > taken away you instantly would drop dead.> > > > > > Werner> > > > > > yeah he was a scared and scary dude.> > > > that's why he lived so long.> > > > wonder what finally scared the crap out of him?> > > > .b b.b.> >> > > Sorry, Rob,> > But I have enormous problems with your American English which is> filled with slang and typical words and expressions you adopted from> street gangs (I suppose).> > When reading your posts I consctantly have to search through the> dictionary which for me is very strenuous because of my bad eyesight.> Sometimes I am lucky to find your special words but mostly not.> > Now:> > Fear is a movement away from.> Life is a movement away from death.> Therefore the movement of life is the movement of fear.> > If fear is taken away you instantly will drop dead.> > Werner>Extrapolation from words, interpretation of words are senseless onlyin the way they provide individual understanding and comprehension.Who knows about the source of life and death? Of fear and love? ~A ***What's being talked about is not the source of life but an apparent aspect of the functioning of life which can be very useful to notice because if it is seen clearly, there may be no more need to take control of that process and fix it. Life, in the way in which we're speaking of it, is experience only. Experience is a movement of events through time, and so we can say that life is a movement. Not that it is moving, it IS the movement, which is a movement of mind, or Consciousness if you like. So, whatever it is that brings about and maintains this movement is critical to what we call life. We could call this catalyst desire or need, and as long as there is desire in some form, there will be a movement toward the fulfillment of that desire, and so there is a dance of opposites in which everything is moving away from something and toward something else, propelled by a sense of lack. We can say that this movement is away from what is not wanted and toward what is wanted, but the movement itself is driven by fear and only the potential for joy. No fear, no movement, no experience, no life. Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 29, 2008 Report Share Posted November 29, 2008 In a message dated 29/11/2008 10:59:41 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Roberibus111 writes: > ***Fear is always based on a misconception. Doesn't mean it doesn'thappen. > Fear is the foundation for your condescending belligerence.Otherwise, there > would be no need. there is no need.you see belligerence where there is none.just calling you ill informed and incorrect in your suppositions..is not being belligerent at all. ****No, it's not, but try reading your posts sometime and see what they really say.Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 29, 2008 Report Share Posted November 29, 2008 In a message dated 29/11/2008 11:03:07 AM Pacific Daylight Time, kailashana writes: Nisargadatta , souldreamone wrote:> ***There's no need at all for agreement. There isn't? then why speak at all other than to hear oneself?~A ****A visitor from Mars might assume that a forum designed to explore spirituality actually involves exploring spirituality, but here it seems absurd and unthinkable. I can't help but wonder why that is. Is agreement necessary in order for you to come to a deeper understanding of yourself and others, of your illusions and delusions?Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 29, 2008 Report Share Posted November 29, 2008 In a message dated 29/11/2008 12:46:46 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Roberibus111 writes: > In a message dated 29/11/2008 10:59:41 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > Roberibus111 writes:> > > ***Fear is always based on a misconception. Doesn't mean it doesn't> happen. > > Fear is the foundation for your condescending belligerence.> Otherwise, there > > would be no need. > > > there is no need.> > you see belligerence where there is none.> > just calling you ill informed and incorrect in your suppositions..> > is not being belligerent at all.> > > > ****No, it's not, but try reading your posts sometime and see whatthey > really say.oh..now you know more what it is that i'm saying than i do.are you nuts?man you've got an ego problem phil..b b.b. ***What you really meant to say is that I'm ill informed and incorrect in my suppositions, right? Hehe. Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 29, 2008 Report Share Posted November 29, 2008 In a message dated 29/11/2008 12:58:44 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Roberibus111 writes: > ***What's being talked about is not the source of life but an apparent > aspect of the functioning of life which can be very useful tonotice because if it > is seen clearly, there may be no more need to take control of thatprocess > and fix it.there is nothing to grab onto... nor to take control of.that's outdated quixotic conquistador talk.even stranger..there is no one to execute that faulty plan either. ****Seems like that's pretty much what I said. What did you hear me say, that we should go out and fix the world? Any idea why you might have heard that? > Life, in the way in which we're speaking of it, is experience only. that's the way you are speaking about it.that's a very small life you've got there. ****So you have a life that consists of more than your experience? > Experience is a movement of events through time, and so we can saythat life is a > movement.events do not move.what supposedly moves through events is even more of a non-event. ***Nobody said events move nor was it suggested that anything moves through events. This isn't rocket science, Booboo, just sound out the words one at a time. Not that it is moving, it IS the movement, which is a movement of > mind, or Consciousness if you like.that's the cheapest and easiest stratagem for dealing with..what you have no idea of... nor any idea of how to discuss."Not that it is moving, it IS the movement.."what nonsensical bullcrap! you just like hearing yourself talk.you can't have any pride in what you are saying here.it's utterly childish.> > So, whatever it is that brings about and maintains this movement iscritical > to what we call life. We could call this catalyst desire or need,and as > long as there is desire in some form, there will be a movementtoward the > fulfillment of that desire, and so there is a dance of opposites inwhich > everything is moving away from something and toward something else,propelled by a > sense of lack. We can say that this movement is away from what isnot wanted and > toward what is wanted, but the movement itself is driven by fearand only > the potential for joy. No fear, no movement, no experience, no life.who is the mystery man that 'wants' 'needs' 'fears' 'desires'????if he is the catalyst for those things...who IS he?you speak around everything and say nothing.you may have a future in politics.but in pure thought..you have no future nor present nor past..b b.b. ****I said desire is the catalyst, not a person. Your reading comprehension isn't very good, is it? Masybe if you read more slowly and paid attention to what you're reading? Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 29, 2008 Report Share Posted November 29, 2008 Nisargadatta , souldreamone wrote: > > > > > In a message dated 11/29/2008 2:40:34 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, > Roberibus111 writes: > > Nisargadatta , souldreamone@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 11/29/2008 2:00:27 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, > > wwoehr@ writes: > > > > Nisargadatta , souldreamone@ wrote: > > > > > > Nice. > > > It seems to me love arises in the absence of either the need for > > love or to > > > be loving, or the need to remove that which is perceived as not > > love. This is > > > so because it is present as part of the natural expression of our > > undistorted > > > being. > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe yes, Phil, > > > > The important hint from K was: " It is easy to hate " . > > > > Hate arises when there is a painful obstacle which by no means one > > can't get rid of. And so hate aeise as a stimuls signalling the brain > > to create enough energy of violence to finally attack and to remove > > that obstacle. > > > > And same easy it is to preach and constantly babble of love. > > > > Preaching love in most cases is just a tricky way not having to face > > that there is no love in one's heart besides a thick overlay of > > sentimental delusion and self-betrayal. > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > ***Sure. Anger/judgment/hate seems to be fear seeking release through > > expression. Nobody wants to express fear so it takes a more > controlling, self > > righteous form and then aches for expression, which explains the > vast majority of > > interaction on most of these forums. The bottom line is that folks > are afraid > > and afraid to be seen as afraid. The solution is to see it for what > it is > > and allow the fear to be present, but that takes a degree of > humility and > > courage that many can't find. > > > > I also agree about love. The constant focus on it implies the need > of it > > rather than the ability to access it. Genuine love is quiet, > accepting and > > humble, without need. > > > > love (GENUINE) doesn't require (need)... > > agreement with one's faulty ideas. > > because possessing that need... > > that infantile need to be given belief, agreement, approval.. > > you know like some people are about their posts.. > > would require expressing rage at those who didn't buy their bullshit. > > you're onto something there sugar. > > was afraid you might not agree though. > > but see..wasn't afraid to tell you that. > > fear conquered. > > man it's wonderful how you point the way. > > LOL! > > non-self-righteously, > > .b b.b. > > > > > > ***There's no need at all for agreement. i disagree but not disagreeably. without agreement nothing IS. maybe that's too deep for you. doesn't matter. that's the way it is whether you agree or not. ..b b.b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 29, 2008 Report Share Posted November 29, 2008 Nisargadatta , souldreamone wrote: > > > > > In a message dated 11/29/2008 2:48:40 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, > Roberibus111 writes: > > Nisargadatta , tyga <tyga@> wrote: > > > > Werner Woehr wrote: > > >>> > > >>> > > >> I could be wrong, but I think Jiddu might have confused hate with > > >> > > > fear. > > > > > >> tyga > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > No, Tyga, > > > > > > Fear is the movement away from and hate is the violent movement > > > towards to. > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > --- > > > > > > > > The movement away from and the violent movement toward what? > > > > tyga > > > and who is supposed to be making those 'movements'. > > stillness and silence are without motion or cause of motion. > > both subject and object are derivatives. > > this psyco-babble bullshit is counting angels where there ain't none. > > love, > > .b b.b. > > > > > ***Fear is always based on a misconception. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen. > Fear is the foundation for your condescending belligerence. Otherwise, there > would be no need. there is no need. you see belligerence where there is none. just calling you ill informed and incorrect in your suppositions.. is not being belligerent at all. it's a humble helping hand showing you the proper way. you're just afraid to admit that you need this aid. there's no need of that phil. but shake and shiver as much as you feel is needed.. it will be better phil i promise. acceptance of this gift and acceptance of your failures.. is all that is required for your betterment. love, ..b b.b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 29, 2008 Report Share Posted November 29, 2008 Nisargadatta , souldreamone wrote: > ***There's no need at all for agreement. There isn't? then why speak at all other than to hear oneself? ~A > > > > > **************Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW > AOL.com. > (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp & icid=aolcom40vanity & ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002) > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 29, 2008 Report Share Posted November 29, 2008 Nisargadatta , souldreamone wrote: > > > > > In a message dated 11/29/2008 4:24:22 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, > kailashana writes: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , souldreamone@ wrote: > > > > > > > > ***Not sure about confusing, but he does seem to be ignoring > that > > > > fear is at > > > > > the root, and not so easily 'brushed away'. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If fear easily can be brushed away would be a new topic, Phil. > > > > > > > > Maybe you haven't realized in my posts that I always try to write > > > > simple mails mostly strictly sticking to one topic and avoidung to > > > > introduce additional topics. > > > > > > > > Have you been into UG ? He said fear is part of life and if´fear is > > > > taken away you instantly would drop dead. > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > yeah he was a scared and scary dude. > > > > > > that's why he lived so long. > > > > > > wonder what finally scared the crap out of him? > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > > > > Sorry, Rob, > > > > But I have enormous problems with your American English which is > > filled with slang and typical words and expressions you adopted from > > street gangs (I suppose). > > > > When reading your posts I consctantly have to search through the > > dictionary which for me is very strenuous because of my bad eyesight. > > Sometimes I am lucky to find your special words but mostly not. > > > > Now: > > > > Fear is a movement away from. > > Life is a movement away from death. > > Therefore the movement of life is the movement of fear. > > > > If fear is taken away you instantly will drop dead. > > > > Werner > > > > > Extrapolation from words, interpretation of words are senseless only > in the way they provide individual understanding and comprehension. > > Who knows about the source of life and death? Of fear and love? > > ~A > > > > > ***What's being talked about is not the source of life but an apparent > aspect of the functioning of life which can be very useful to notice because if it > is seen clearly, there may be no more need to take control of that process > and fix it. there is nothing to grab onto... nor to take control of. that's outdated quixotic conquistador talk. even stranger..there is no one to execute that faulty plan either. > Life, in the way in which we're speaking of it, is experience only. that's the way you are speaking about it. that's a very small life you've got there. > Experience is a movement of events through time, and so we can say that life is a > movement. events do not move. what supposedly moves through events is even more of a non-event. Not that it is moving, it IS the movement, which is a movement of > mind, or Consciousness if you like. that's the cheapest and easiest stratagem for dealing with.. what you have no idea of... nor any idea of how to discuss. " Not that it is moving, it IS the movement.. " what nonsensical bullcrap! you just like hearing yourself talk. you can't have any pride in what you are saying here. it's utterly childish. > > So, whatever it is that brings about and maintains this movement is critical > to what we call life. We could call this catalyst desire or need, and as > long as there is desire in some form, there will be a movement toward the > fulfillment of that desire, and so there is a dance of opposites in which > everything is moving away from something and toward something else, propelled by a > sense of lack. We can say that this movement is away from what is not wanted and > toward what is wanted, but the movement itself is driven by fear and only > the potential for joy. No fear, no movement, no experience, no life. who is the mystery man that 'wants' 'needs' 'fears' 'desires'???? if he is the catalyst for those things...who IS he? you speak around everything and say nothing. you may have a future in politics. but in pure thought.. you have no future nor present nor past. ..b b.b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 29, 2008 Report Share Posted November 29, 2008 Nisargadatta , souldreamone wrote: > > > In a message dated 29/11/2008 10:59:41 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > Roberibus111 writes: > > > ***Fear is always based on a misconception. Doesn't mean it doesn't > happen. > > Fear is the foundation for your condescending belligerence. > Otherwise, there > > would be no need. > > > there is no need. > > you see belligerence where there is none. > > just calling you ill informed and incorrect in your suppositions.. > > is not being belligerent at all. > > > > ****No, it's not, but try reading your posts sometime and see what they > really say. oh..now you know more what it is that i'm saying than i do. are you nuts? man you've got an ego problem phil. ..b b.b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 29, 2008 Report Share Posted November 29, 2008 Nisargadatta , souldreamone wrote: > > > In a message dated 29/11/2008 12:46:46 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > Roberibus111 writes: > > > In a message dated 29/11/2008 10:59:41 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > > Roberibus111@ writes: > > > > > ***Fear is always based on a misconception. Doesn't mean it doesn't > > happen. > > > Fear is the foundation for your condescending belligerence. > > Otherwise, there > > > would be no need. > > > > > > there is no need. > > > > you see belligerence where there is none. > > > > just calling you ill informed and incorrect in your suppositions.. > > > > is not being belligerent at all. > > > > > > > > ****No, it's not, but try reading your posts sometime and see what > they > > really say. > > > oh..now you know more what it is that i'm saying than i do. > > are you nuts? > > man you've got an ego problem phil. > > .b b.b. > > > > ***What you really meant to say is that I'm ill informed and incorrect in my > suppositions, right? Hehe. you said it. i don't need to. ..b b.b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 29, 2008 Report Share Posted November 29, 2008 Nisargadatta , souldreamone wrote: > > > In a message dated 29/11/2008 12:58:44 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > Roberibus111 writes: > > > ***What's being talked about is not the source of life but an apparent > > aspect of the functioning of life which can be very useful to > notice because if it > > is seen clearly, there may be no more need to take control of that > process > > and fix it. > > > there is nothing to grab onto... nor to take control of. > > that's outdated quixotic conquistador talk. > > even stranger..there is no one to execute that faulty plan either. > > > > > > > ****Seems like that's pretty much what I said. What did you hear me say, > that we should go out and fix the world? Any idea why you might have heard that? no that's not at all even close to what you said. you imply that there is the possibility to: " take control of that process and fix it. " .. albeit no need to do so. there is no such possibility. phil: " an apparent aspect of the functioning of life.. which can be very useful to notice " (end of phil) noticed by.. and determined to be useful to.... whom? you without letup keep involving some non-existent " me " into the mix. there is no one to control or submit to anything. i didn't write about " fixing the world " ..or controlling it. that is your misreading and it hints at your egotistical attitude. that's my idea of where we all heard that. > > > > > > Life, in the way in which we're speaking of it, is experience only. > > > > that's the way you are speaking about it. > > that's a very small life you've got there. > > > > > ****So you have a life that consists of more than your experience? i AM. i have nothing. experience is cheap and delusional. and there is no one to entertain experience anyway. if your life consists ONLY of what is mistakenly believed.. to be strictly and only 'experiences' .. you haven't begun to live. but i already knew this. > > Experience is a movement of events through time, and so we can say > that life is a > > movement. > > > events do not move. > > what supposedly moves through events is even more of a non-event. ***Nobody said events move " Experience is a movement of events through time " " ...MOVEMENT OF EVENTS through time.. " 'nough said sport. > nor was it suggested that anything moves through > events. so events, as you understand them, have no moving parts? very interesting phil. why call an unmoved (and unmoved within) ANYTHING..an event? you might as well say an event is like a dead piece of rock. it may be the events surrounding your life are like this. i don't know. it must be boring huh? This isn't rocket science, Booboo, just sound out the words one at a > time. philly...i know you can only handle one word or sound at a time. not my problem kiddo. and if you've just discovered that this isn't rocket science.. this eureka moment of yours explains a whole bunch.. about your subnormal backwardness. i'm sorry philsie...i wouldn't have even tried to help you.. had i known before that you were so far behind. > Not that it is moving, it IS the movement, which is a movement of > > mind, or Consciousness if you like. > > > that's the cheapest and easiest stratagem for dealing with.. > > what you have no idea of... nor any idea of how to discuss. > > " Not that it is moving, it IS the movement.. " > > what nonsensical bullcrap! > > you just like hearing yourself talk. > > you can't have any pride in what you are saying here. > > it's utterly childish. > > > > > > So, whatever it is that brings about and maintains this movement is > critical > > to what we call life. We could call this catalyst desire or need, > and as > > long as there is desire in some form, there will be a movement > toward the > > fulfillment of that desire, and so there is a dance of opposites in > which > > everything is moving away from something and toward something else, > propelled by a > > sense of lack. We can say that this movement is away from what is > not wanted and > > toward what is wanted, but the movement itself is driven by fear > and only > > the potential for joy. No fear, no movement, no experience, no life. > > > who is the mystery man that 'wants' 'needs' 'fears' 'desires'???? > > if he is the catalyst for those things...who IS he? > > you speak around everything and say nothing. > > you may have a future in politics. > > but in pure thought.. > > you have no future nor present nor past. > > .b b.b. > > > > > ****I said desire is the catalyst, not a person. i disagree but in order to placate my little boy let's say: OK it's a catalyst. for who? is there a desire in all chemical or electrical catalysts? for what and for whom? you're smoking something really bad guy. or do you really believe physical and chemical reactions have desire? this may be the uncovering of a primary delusion phil. good for you! Your reading comprehension > isn't very good, is it? Masybe if you read more slowly and paid attention to > what you're reading? LOL! MY reading comprehension??? you don't even comprehend what you write let alone read. you know: " Experience is a movement of events through time " than following up with: " ***Nobody said events move " holy crap philsie..what's the matter with you anyhow? reading your nonsense bullshit doesn't take " reading comprehension " reading your babble takes patience and pity. what you write is " masybe " so ludicrous..and incoherent.. that it has to be just looked at like a piece of bad modern art.. it doesn't make sense, it's generally ugly, it's pretentious.. and like all phony artists you have to defend your poor attempts... at composing anything worthwhile. and of course you rage against the critics.. who know real art when they see it.. and call a spade a spade and dumb reasoning dumb reasoning... and inform you that perhaps attempting something more befitting.. your diminished talent should be henceforth pursued. just trying to help you with some sound life choices here phillip. always ready to help the needy, ..b b.b. 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