Guest guest Posted January 27, 2009 Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 Namaste, This is the post that harsha used to moderate me, which he knows is tantamount to banning me, for he knows I don't believe in censorship as it indicates a fear of losing control........of minds.... advaitajnana , " Tony OClery " <aoclery wrote: > Dear Tony, > > In both your emails to me and to Alan you have simply repeated the same old > unsupported claims. Please be good enough to offer us something of substance > from Ramana's teaching or from Advaita in general rather than the usual it's > so 'because you (Tony) say so'. > > You write: > > >> NirGuna by description cannot be BEING...<< > > Nir-guna means to be without attributes (without gunas). > Only something that truly exists (whose Being is Real) can be without > something else. > A non-existent thing simply doesn't exist and can therefore neither possess > attributes nor be without them. > > Brahman is the only Reality, all else is appearance. Hence in Advaita > Brahman is referred to as Absolute Existence - SAT - the only REALITY. Namaste, Sat cit ananada is Saguna as they are attributes or qualities as Ramana calls them. I can't prove Nir Guna as by description it cannot be proved, for a mind is req'd for that.. I can just say that whatever has been said by Ramana and Sankara leaves the logical and only conclusion. Reality is Being so is Saguna. It is very logical if creation is appearance and brahman then brahman must have some duality and mind and this cannot be so. Non Duality, Ahimsa, Silence all mean the same thing no duality, no movement and no sound at all.........no projection. I realise that you cannot grasp what I am saying for whatever reason so there is no point in continuing. I posted something on solomon and sheba perhaps we could talk about that....................If it gets through.... --- End forwarded message --- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 > --- On Thu, 29/1/09, houzland <houzland@> wrote: > <snip> > ##VG##I have read UG Krishnamurthy, some around 40 years back. He was talking pure advaita vedanta in those days. He has also described how his whole body lost sensation for a prolonged period when he sat in meditation, one day. His outlook changed entirely afterwards.As for nothing has happened etc., if one is familiar with the indian system of thought like Tarkam , vyakaran, nyayam, mimasa, samkhya, yoga etc. one will realise that Nothing ever happened is not the intended meaning. > Here is one eg. from Tarkam - LogicKaka talyeena nyayam = The crow has sat on a tree and a fruit has fallen down. For arguement sake one can say the fruit has fallen because the crow has sat on the tree. But really we know that it simply is a coincidence. Applying similar logic, since all worldly things are ephemeral and transient the world never happened !!I hope I am able to convey the real meaning that nothing ever happened is not a fact. For arguements sake one can argue like that. That is all. > Similarly world is unreal, does not mean it does not exist. It is the westerners penchant for hair-splitting interpretation that gives un-intended meanings for the Gurus word.Lastly, advaita vedanta is only one of the systems dealing with spirituality. There are several others which are more popular in India. It is the western civilisations attraction for rational thinking and scientific temper which made Buddhism and vedanta somewhat popular there. > I am also aware that there are probably more followers for the Hare Krishna movement, in western countries, which is a Bakthi path. RegardsVG Namaste VG, I would offer that many 'Westerners' understand Indian thought better than most Indians. That was definately my experience in my trips to India. What you have said above restates what I have said about religious programming. Many Hindus can read the statements on 'it never happened' etc but still fall back into their religious programming and come up with ideas like---well its just an appearance etc etc...This is because the Devotionary programming and the emphasis on that feeling has prevented them from 'free thinking'...They are afraid to let go of their gods and devas and a personal god etc...they are afraid of annhilation, and that is due to bhakti programming and manipulation.. Sankara says it is real whilst one is in it...indicating the opposite of that is that it is not real, unqualified by half steps like its and appearance etc etc---just to alleviate fear.....Cheers --- End forwarded message --- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Tony OClery " <aoclery wrote: > > > > --- On Thu, 29/1/09, houzland <houzland@> wrote: > > <snip> > > ##VG##I have read UG Krishnamurthy, some around 40 years back. He > was talking pure advaita vedanta in those days. He has also described > how his whole body lost sensation for a prolonged period when he sat > in meditation, one day. His outlook changed entirely afterwards.As > for nothing has happened etc., if one is familiar with the indian > system of thought like Tarkam , vyakaran, nyayam, mimasa, samkhya, > yoga etc. one will realise that Nothing ever happened is not the > intended meaning. > > Here is one eg. from Tarkam - LogicKaka talyeena nyayam = The crow > has sat on a tree and a fruit has fallen down. For arguement sake one > can say the fruit has fallen because the crow has sat on the tree. > But really we know that it simply is a coincidence. Applying similar > logic, since all worldly things are ephemeral and transient the world > never happened !!I hope I am able to convey the real meaning that > nothing ever happened is not a fact. For arguements sake one can > argue like that. That is all. > > Similarly world is unreal, does not mean it does not exist. It > is the westerners penchant for hair-splitting interpretation that > gives un-intended meanings for the Gurus word.Lastly, advaita vedanta > is only one of the systems dealing with spirituality. There are > several others which are more popular in India. It is the western > civilisations attraction for rational thinking and scientific temper > which made Buddhism and vedanta somewhat popular there. > > I am also aware that there are probably more followers for the > Hare Krishna movement, in western countries, which is a Bakthi > path. RegardsVG > > Namaste VG, > > I would offer that many 'Westerners' understand Indian thought better > than most Indians. That was definately my experience in my trips to > India. > What you have said above restates what I have said about religious > programming. Many Hindus can read the statements on 'it never > happened' etc but still fall back into their religious programming > and come up with ideas like---well its just an appearance etc > etc...This is because the Devotionary programming and the emphasis on > that feeling has prevented them from 'free thinking'...They are > afraid to let go of their gods and devas and a personal god > etc...they are afraid of annhilation, and that is due to bhakti > programming and manipulation.. > > Sankara says it is real whilst one is in it...indicating the opposite > of that is that it is not real, unqualified by half steps like its > and appearance etc etc---just to alleviate fear.....Cheers > > --- End forwarded message --- > " That was definately my experience in my trips to India. " " They are afraid to let go of their gods and devas and a personal god etc... " a touching relationship... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 > Nisargadatta , " Tony OClery " <aoclery@> wrote: > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 29/1/09, houzland <houzland@> wrote: > > > <snip> > > > ##VG##I have read UG Krishnamurthy, some around 40 years back. He > > was talking pure advaita vedanta in those days. He has also described > > how his whole body lost sensation for a prolonged period when he sat > > in meditation, one day. His outlook changed entirely afterwards.As > > for nothing has happened etc., if one is familiar with the indian > > system of thought like Tarkam , vyakaran, nyayam, mimasa, samkhya, > > yoga etc. one will realise that Nothing ever happened is not the > > intended meaning. > > > Here is one eg. from Tarkam - LogicKaka talyeena nyayam = The crow > > has sat on a tree and a fruit has fallen down. For arguement sake one > > can say the fruit has fallen because the crow has sat on the tree. > > But really we know that it simply is a coincidence. Applying similar > > logic, since all worldly things are ephemeral and transient the world > > never happened !!I hope I am able to convey the real meaning that > > nothing ever happened is not a fact. For arguements sake one can > > argue like that. That is all. > > > Similarly world is unreal, does not mean it does not exist. It > > is the westerners penchant for hair-splitting interpretation that > > gives un-intended meanings for the Gurus word.Lastly, advaita vedanta > > is only one of the systems dealing with spirituality. There are > > several others which are more popular in India. It is the western > > civilisations attraction for rational thinking and scientific temper > > which made Buddhism and vedanta somewhat popular there. > > > I am also aware that there are probably more followers for the > > Hare Krishna movement, in western countries, which is a Bakthi > > path. RegardsVG > > > > Namaste VG, > > > > I would offer that many 'Westerners' understand Indian thought better > > than most Indians. That was definately my experience in my trips to > > India. > > What you have said above restates what I have said about religious > > programming. Many Hindus can read the statements on 'it never > > happened' etc but still fall back into their religious programming > > and come up with ideas like---well its just an appearance etc > > etc...This is because the Devotionary programming and the emphasis on > > that feeling has prevented them from 'free thinking'...They are > > afraid to let go of their gods and devas and a personal god > > etc...they are afraid of annhilation, and that is due to bhakti > > programming and manipulation.. They are no more afraid to let go of their gods than you are, of letting go of yours. Your gods just have different names. > > Sankara says it is real whilst one is in it...indicating the opposite > > of that is that it is not real, unqualified by half steps like its > > and appearance etc etc---just to alleviate fear.....Cheers Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.