Guest guest Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > > > > " The neurobiological approach to an " attractor state " helps us along > nicely as we strive to disclose furhte the unconscious origin of the > human creature's inclination to " people " the world with spirits,and in > particular with a supernatural Parent God. > > Repeated states of activation at the critical early period of > development shape the structure of the neural circuits which then form > the functional basis for the enduring states of mind within the > individual. > > Accordingly, what transpires between the offspring and caregiver > during the early period comes gradually to serve as not merely one > neurobiological " state " among many others but the central, enduring > " attractor state " of our ongoing lives. > > The basic biological situation gives rise to the implicit, unconscious > level of perceptual, emotional " scheme " from which emanate our deepest > emotional longings and perceptual inclinations. > > How could it be otherwise? > > For many critical months and years our physical and mental survival > depends entirely on the caregiver; thus the affective intensity of > this " critical " early stage is colossal; we attach ourselves to our > provider with utterly spontaneous, unabated ardor; nothing is held > back; our needs for nourishment and care, for love, are " activated " > continuously, over and over again, thousands upon thousands of times, > to become rooted synaptically in our brains; our emotional " values " > are established in an indelible, permanent manner that seeks > fulfillment forever after along lines that affectively recall the > initial, primal interaction. > > In short, we internalize into our developing minds early on the > instinct-driven, affective " pattern " that will govern our behavior as > we relinquish the immediate familial unit and move into the wider > world of culture, including of course the culture's religious dimension. > > The " truth " of the religious narrative with the Loving-Parent God at > the center is confirmed implicitly, unconsciously through a primed, > fully readied > " attractor state " that resides at the fountain of our interpersonally > sculpted, impersonally wired brains. > > We are not simply attracted to the religious narrative to which we are > eventually exposed; the system is completely dynamic: it is we who > also attract the narrative to ourselves, yanking it in, absorbing it, > mapping it onto the model, the scheme, upon which we've been relying > all along. > > The attractor state within us is as eager for confirmation of its core > perception as those who offer the narrative to us are eager for our > acceptance of it and our entry into the flock. > > It is not only religion, needless to say, but a wide variety of human > participations that are linked firmly to the basic biological > situation: our ongoing personal relationships at both the individual > and group level (spouce, family) our national loyalty and > identification with " motherland " and " fatherland " including the > " leader " of " chief " ; our absorption in music, art, poetry, literature; > and of course our inclination to make gods out of other institutions > such as science or philosophy. > > However, because the spiritual and supernatural domain of religion is > imponderable, invisible, entirely unsupported by what we term > emperical criteria, because for billions of people everywhere mental > and emotional stablitiy depends significantly on religious ties, and > finally because religion must compete with other emergent systems and > brain states that come into play as an individual develops over time, > religion's humble, worldly task is to reinforce, to strengthen, to > deepen the participant's original, brain based convictions through > steady, even continuous exposure to ritual and to the word from early > childhood onward. > > The neurons that fired together are wired together to create a primal > attractor state during the early period must be regularly activated in > the proper devotional context to ensure the continuation of the > supernatural attachment that emerged on the initial exposure to the > official, sacred narrative. > > To put it another way, the worldly task of institutional religion is > to provide the flock with the inspiration to continue its mapping of > the primal, core experience of attachment to the parental figure onto > the orthodox version of the substitute Parent-God. > > Unless this happens, the flock and earthy shepherds are apt to disappear. > Accordingly. to employ a few examples in illustration, when we hear > the gospel choir on television singing. " Jesus came and found me / and > put his arms around me. " we detect the primal attractor state of > union, with the biological caregiver humming along quietly beneath the > mapped-on surface expression of the core fantasy. > > > M.D. Faber > > " The Psychological Roots of Religious Belief " and...you believe him? LOL! ..b b.b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > " The neurobiological approach to an " attractor state " helps us along > > nicely as we strive to disclose furhte the unconscious origin of the > > human creature's inclination to " people " the world with spirits,and in > > particular with a supernatural Parent God. > > > > Repeated states of activation at the critical early period of > > development shape the structure of the neural circuits which then form > > the functional basis for the enduring states of mind within the > > individual. > > > > Accordingly, what transpires between the offspring and caregiver > > during the early period comes gradually to serve as not merely one > > neurobiological " state " among many others but the central, enduring > > " attractor state " of our ongoing lives. > > > > The basic biological situation gives rise to the implicit, unconscious > > level of perceptual, emotional " scheme " from which emanate our deepest > > emotional longings and perceptual inclinations. > > > > How could it be otherwise? > > > > For many critical months and years our physical and mental survival > > depends entirely on the caregiver; thus the affective intensity of > > this " critical " early stage is colossal; we attach ourselves to our > > provider with utterly spontaneous, unabated ardor; nothing is held > > back; our needs for nourishment and care, for love, are " activated " > > continuously, over and over again, thousands upon thousands of times, > > to become rooted synaptically in our brains; our emotional " values " > > are established in an indelible, permanent manner that seeks > > fulfillment forever after along lines that affectively recall the > > initial, primal interaction. > > > > In short, we internalize into our developing minds early on the > > instinct-driven, affective " pattern " that will govern our behavior as > > we relinquish the immediate familial unit and move into the wider > > world of culture, including of course the culture's religious dimension. > > > > The " truth " of the religious narrative with the Loving-Parent God at > > the center is confirmed implicitly, unconsciously through a primed, > > fully readied > > " attractor state " that resides at the fountain of our interpersonally > > sculpted, impersonally wired brains. > > > > We are not simply attracted to the religious narrative to which we are > > eventually exposed; the system is completely dynamic: it is we who > > also attract the narrative to ourselves, yanking it in, absorbing it, > > mapping it onto the model, the scheme, upon which we've been relying > > all along. > > > > The attractor state within us is as eager for confirmation of its core > > perception as those who offer the narrative to us are eager for our > > acceptance of it and our entry into the flock. > > > > It is not only religion, needless to say, but a wide variety of human > > participations that are linked firmly to the basic biological > > situation: our ongoing personal relationships at both the individual > > and group level (spouce, family) our national loyalty and > > identification with " motherland " and " fatherland " including the > > " leader " of " chief " ; our absorption in music, art, poetry, literature; > > and of course our inclination to make gods out of other institutions > > such as science or philosophy. > > > > However, because the spiritual and supernatural domain of religion is > > imponderable, invisible, entirely unsupported by what we term > > emperical criteria, because for billions of people everywhere mental > > and emotional stablitiy depends significantly on religious ties, and > > finally because religion must compete with other emergent systems and > > brain states that come into play as an individual develops over time, > > religion's humble, worldly task is to reinforce, to strengthen, to > > deepen the participant's original, brain based convictions through > > steady, even continuous exposure to ritual and to the word from early > > childhood onward. > > > > The neurons that fired together are wired together to create a primal > > attractor state during the early period must be regularly activated in > > the proper devotional context to ensure the continuation of the > > supernatural attachment that emerged on the initial exposure to the > > official, sacred narrative. > > > > To put it another way, the worldly task of institutional religion is > > to provide the flock with the inspiration to continue its mapping of > > the primal, core experience of attachment to the parental figure onto > > the orthodox version of the substitute Parent-God. > > > > Unless this happens, the flock and earthy shepherds are apt to > disappear. > > Accordingly. to employ a few examples in illustration, when we hear > > the gospel choir on television singing. " Jesus came and found me / and > > put his arms around me. " we detect the primal attractor state of > > union, with the biological caregiver humming along quietly beneath the > > mapped-on surface expression of the core fantasy. > > > > > > M.D. Faber > > > > " The Psychological Roots of Religious Belief " > > > and...you believe him? > > LOL! > > .b b.b. an amazing thing: people so obsessed with negating god.. are more obsessed with the god idea than the so called 'religious'. it's like a fat ass always trying to deny that his ass is fat. he tells you to get " scientific " .. it's the pants that make his fat ass look fat. right'o sports. if there wasn't a silly need to address this 'god' thing.. they simply would shut their mouths? why the hell should anyone.. spend so much time.. make so much effort.. scribble scribble scribble so many f***ing times.. that " they " don't need or believe.. in what they don't believe in or need? sounds like a stupid 10 year old telling dad he's leaving home. fine. here's what you tell that transparently frightened child: " OK kid..get the f*** out and shut up... too much information punk... no one needs or wants to hear your false bravado. no one gives a shit if you stay or go.. nobody cares if you believe in god or if you believe in nothing. or if you don't believe in either/or OR neither/nor... just get out of town and quit trying to act brave and bold.. it's not impressive it's goddamn boring. " if there was a god he wouldn't give a shit. i mean that's the essence of a god. if there is no god.. what in the hell is the point.. in trying to convince anyone that " you " don't buy it? so what? bully for you now eat your goddamn pablum and be still. LOL! ..b b.b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " The neurobiological approach to an " attractor state " helps us along > > > nicely as we strive to disclose furhte the unconscious origin of the > > > human creature's inclination to " people " the world with spirits,and in > > > particular with a supernatural Parent God. > > > > > > Repeated states of activation at the critical early period of > > > development shape the structure of the neural circuits which then form > > > the functional basis for the enduring states of mind within the > > > individual. > > > > > > Accordingly, what transpires between the offspring and caregiver > > > during the early period comes gradually to serve as not merely one > > > neurobiological " state " among many others but the central, enduring > > > " attractor state " of our ongoing lives. > > > > > > The basic biological situation gives rise to the implicit, unconscious > > > level of perceptual, emotional " scheme " from which emanate our deepest > > > emotional longings and perceptual inclinations. > > > > > > How could it be otherwise? > > > > > > For many critical months and years our physical and mental survival > > > depends entirely on the caregiver; thus the affective intensity of > > > this " critical " early stage is colossal; we attach ourselves to our > > > provider with utterly spontaneous, unabated ardor; nothing is held > > > back; our needs for nourishment and care, for love, are " activated " > > > continuously, over and over again, thousands upon thousands of times, > > > to become rooted synaptically in our brains; our emotional " values " > > > are established in an indelible, permanent manner that seeks > > > fulfillment forever after along lines that affectively recall the > > > initial, primal interaction. > > > > > > In short, we internalize into our developing minds early on the > > > instinct-driven, affective " pattern " that will govern our behavior as > > > we relinquish the immediate familial unit and move into the wider > > > world of culture, including of course the culture's religious > dimension. > > > > > > The " truth " of the religious narrative with the Loving-Parent God at > > > the center is confirmed implicitly, unconsciously through a primed, > > > fully readied > > > " attractor state " that resides at the fountain of our interpersonally > > > sculpted, impersonally wired brains. > > > > > > We are not simply attracted to the religious narrative to which we are > > > eventually exposed; the system is completely dynamic: it is we who > > > also attract the narrative to ourselves, yanking it in, absorbing it, > > > mapping it onto the model, the scheme, upon which we've been relying > > > all along. > > > > > > The attractor state within us is as eager for confirmation of its core > > > perception as those who offer the narrative to us are eager for our > > > acceptance of it and our entry into the flock. > > > > > > It is not only religion, needless to say, but a wide variety of human > > > participations that are linked firmly to the basic biological > > > situation: our ongoing personal relationships at both the individual > > > and group level (spouce, family) our national loyalty and > > > identification with " motherland " and " fatherland " including the > > > " leader " of " chief " ; our absorption in music, art, poetry, literature; > > > and of course our inclination to make gods out of other institutions > > > such as science or philosophy. > > > > > > However, because the spiritual and supernatural domain of religion is > > > imponderable, invisible, entirely unsupported by what we term > > > emperical criteria, because for billions of people everywhere mental > > > and emotional stablitiy depends significantly on religious ties, and > > > finally because religion must compete with other emergent systems and > > > brain states that come into play as an individual develops over time, > > > religion's humble, worldly task is to reinforce, to strengthen, to > > > deepen the participant's original, brain based convictions through > > > steady, even continuous exposure to ritual and to the word from early > > > childhood onward. > > > > > > The neurons that fired together are wired together to create a primal > > > attractor state during the early period must be regularly activated in > > > the proper devotional context to ensure the continuation of the > > > supernatural attachment that emerged on the initial exposure to the > > > official, sacred narrative. > > > > > > To put it another way, the worldly task of institutional religion is > > > to provide the flock with the inspiration to continue its mapping of > > > the primal, core experience of attachment to the parental figure onto > > > the orthodox version of the substitute Parent-God. > > > > > > Unless this happens, the flock and earthy shepherds are apt to > > disappear. > > > Accordingly. to employ a few examples in illustration, when we hear > > > the gospel choir on television singing. " Jesus came and found me / and > > > put his arms around me. " we detect the primal attractor state of > > > union, with the biological caregiver humming along quietly beneath the > > > mapped-on surface expression of the core fantasy. > > > > > > > > > M.D. Faber > > > > > > " The Psychological Roots of Religious Belief " > > > > > > and...you believe him? > > > > LOL! > > > > .b b.b. > > > an amazing thing: > > people so obsessed with negating god.. > > are more obsessed with the god idea > > than the so called 'religious'. > > it's like a fat ass always trying to deny that his ass is fat. > > he tells you to get " scientific " .. > > it's the pants that make his fat ass look fat. > > right'o sports. > > if there wasn't a silly need to address this 'god' thing.. > > they simply would shut their mouths? > > why the hell should anyone.. > > spend so much time.. > > make so much effort.. > > scribble scribble scribble so many f***ing times.. > > that " they " don't need or believe.. > > in what they don't believe in or need? > > sounds like a stupid 10 year old telling dad he's leaving home. > > fine. > > here's what you tell that transparently frightened child: > > " OK kid..get the f*** out and shut up... > > too much information punk... > > no one needs or wants to hear your false bravado. > > no one gives a shit if you stay or go.. > > nobody cares if you believe in god or if you believe in nothing. > > or if you don't believe in either/or OR neither/nor... > > just get out of town and quit trying to act brave and bold.. > > it's not impressive it's goddamn boring. " > > > > if there was a god he wouldn't give a shit. > > i mean that's the essence of a god. > > if there is no god.. > > what in the hell is the point.. > > in trying to convince anyone that " you " don't buy it? > > so what? > > bully for you now eat your goddamn pablum and be still. > > LOL! > > .b b.b. > You didn't read it did you? It explains clearly the origin of the belief in a personal god. .......a belief that leads to the devaluation of the present life and places all hope in an imaginary future in an imaginary heaven. .......a delusional belief system that threatens to destroy this beautiful little blue ball. Do you imagine that religion is harmless? toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " The neurobiological approach to an " attractor state " helps us along > > > > nicely as we strive to disclose furhte the unconscious origin of the > > > > human creature's inclination to " people " the world with > spirits,and in > > > > particular with a supernatural Parent God. > > > > > > > > Repeated states of activation at the critical early period of > > > > development shape the structure of the neural circuits which > then form > > > > the functional basis for the enduring states of mind within the > > > > individual. > > > > > > > > Accordingly, what transpires between the offspring and caregiver > > > > during the early period comes gradually to serve as not merely one > > > > neurobiological " state " among many others but the central, enduring > > > > " attractor state " of our ongoing lives. > > > > > > > > The basic biological situation gives rise to the implicit, > unconscious > > > > level of perceptual, emotional " scheme " from which emanate our > deepest > > > > emotional longings and perceptual inclinations. > > > > > > > > How could it be otherwise? > > > > > > > > For many critical months and years our physical and mental survival > > > > depends entirely on the caregiver; thus the affective intensity of > > > > this " critical " early stage is colossal; we attach ourselves to our > > > > provider with utterly spontaneous, unabated ardor; nothing is held > > > > back; our needs for nourishment and care, for love, are " activated " > > > > continuously, over and over again, thousands upon thousands of > times, > > > > to become rooted synaptically in our brains; our emotional " values " > > > > are established in an indelible, permanent manner that seeks > > > > fulfillment forever after along lines that affectively recall the > > > > initial, primal interaction. > > > > > > > > In short, we internalize into our developing minds early on the > > > > instinct-driven, affective " pattern " that will govern our > behavior as > > > > we relinquish the immediate familial unit and move into the wider > > > > world of culture, including of course the culture's religious > > dimension. > > > > > > > > The " truth " of the religious narrative with the Loving-Parent God at > > > > the center is confirmed implicitly, unconsciously through a primed, > > > > fully readied > > > > " attractor state " that resides at the fountain of our > interpersonally > > > > sculpted, impersonally wired brains. > > > > > > > > We are not simply attracted to the religious narrative to which > we are > > > > eventually exposed; the system is completely dynamic: it is we who > > > > also attract the narrative to ourselves, yanking it in, > absorbing it, > > > > mapping it onto the model, the scheme, upon which we've been relying > > > > all along. > > > > > > > > The attractor state within us is as eager for confirmation of > its core > > > > perception as those who offer the narrative to us are eager for our > > > > acceptance of it and our entry into the flock. > > > > > > > > It is not only religion, needless to say, but a wide variety of > human > > > > participations that are linked firmly to the basic biological > > > > situation: our ongoing personal relationships at both the individual > > > > and group level (spouce, family) our national loyalty and > > > > identification with " motherland " and " fatherland " including the > > > > " leader " of " chief " ; our absorption in music, art, poetry, > literature; > > > > and of course our inclination to make gods out of other institutions > > > > such as science or philosophy. > > > > > > > > However, because the spiritual and supernatural domain of > religion is > > > > imponderable, invisible, entirely unsupported by what we term > > > > emperical criteria, because for billions of people everywhere mental > > > > and emotional stablitiy depends significantly on religious ties, and > > > > finally because religion must compete with other emergent > systems and > > > > brain states that come into play as an individual develops over > time, > > > > religion's humble, worldly task is to reinforce, to strengthen, to > > > > deepen the participant's original, brain based convictions through > > > > steady, even continuous exposure to ritual and to the word from > early > > > > childhood onward. > > > > > > > > The neurons that fired together are wired together to create a > primal > > > > attractor state during the early period must be regularly > activated in > > > > the proper devotional context to ensure the continuation of the > > > > supernatural attachment that emerged on the initial exposure to the > > > > official, sacred narrative. > > > > > > > > To put it another way, the worldly task of institutional religion is > > > > to provide the flock with the inspiration to continue its mapping of > > > > the primal, core experience of attachment to the parental figure > onto > > > > the orthodox version of the substitute Parent-God. > > > > > > > > Unless this happens, the flock and earthy shepherds are apt to > > > disappear. > > > > Accordingly. to employ a few examples in illustration, when we hear > > > > the gospel choir on television singing. " Jesus came and found me > / and > > > > put his arms around me. " we detect the primal attractor state of > > > > union, with the biological caregiver humming along quietly > beneath the > > > > mapped-on surface expression of the core fantasy. > > > > > > > > > > > > M.D. Faber > > > > > > > > " The Psychological Roots of Religious Belief " > > > > > > > > > and...you believe him? > > > > > > LOL! > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > an amazing thing: > > > > people so obsessed with negating god.. > > > > are more obsessed with the god idea > > > > than the so called 'religious'. > > > > it's like a fat ass always trying to deny that his ass is fat. > > > > he tells you to get " scientific " .. > > > > it's the pants that make his fat ass look fat. > > > > right'o sports. > > > > if there wasn't a silly need to address this 'god' thing.. > > > > they simply would shut their mouths? > > > > why the hell should anyone.. > > > > spend so much time.. > > > > make so much effort.. > > > > scribble scribble scribble so many f***ing times.. > > > > that " they " don't need or believe.. > > > > in what they don't believe in or need? > > > > sounds like a stupid 10 year old telling dad he's leaving home. > > > > fine. > > > > here's what you tell that transparently frightened child: > > > > " OK kid..get the f*** out and shut up... > > > > too much information punk... > > > > no one needs or wants to hear your false bravado. > > > > no one gives a shit if you stay or go.. > > > > nobody cares if you believe in god or if you believe in nothing. > > > > or if you don't believe in either/or OR neither/nor... > > > > just get out of town and quit trying to act brave and bold.. > > > > it's not impressive it's goddamn boring. " > > > > > > > > if there was a god he wouldn't give a shit. > > > > i mean that's the essence of a god. > > > > if there is no god.. > > > > what in the hell is the point.. > > > > in trying to convince anyone that " you " don't buy it? > > > > so what? > > > > bully for you now eat your goddamn pablum and be still. > > > > LOL! > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > You didn't read it did you? > > It explains clearly the origin of the belief in a personal god. > > ......a belief that leads to the devaluation of the present life and > places all hope in an imaginary future in an imaginary heaven. > > ......a delusional belief system that threatens to destroy this > beautiful little blue ball. > > Do you imagine that religion is harmless? > > > > > > toombaru do you imagine anything is dangerous? to what or to whom? there is nothing to fear.. there is nothing to act fearless about.. there is no god (personal or otherwise). there is no such thing as wisdom. there is no need to make rapture of a common dirt ball in space. it's all imaginary. including this and including all 'explanations' of nothing. it doesn't move me pal. not the god, not the blue planet, not the sorry ass 'concern'. none of that bullshit matters. and it doesn't matter that it doesn't matter. unless and only.. 'you' think so and want to make a 'cause' of it. that's no different than the cause of allah. No God Is Great! and.. There is No God but No God. yeah that's so cool. get real. ..b b.b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " The neurobiological approach to an " attractor state " helps us > along > > > > > nicely as we strive to disclose furhte the unconscious origin > of the > > > > > human creature's inclination to " people " the world with > > spirits,and in > > > > > particular with a supernatural Parent God. > > > > > > > > > > Repeated states of activation at the critical early period of > > > > > development shape the structure of the neural circuits which > > then form > > > > > the functional basis for the enduring states of mind within the > > > > > individual. > > > > > > > > > > Accordingly, what transpires between the offspring and caregiver > > > > > during the early period comes gradually to serve as not merely one > > > > > neurobiological " state " among many others but the central, > enduring > > > > > " attractor state " of our ongoing lives. > > > > > > > > > > The basic biological situation gives rise to the implicit, > > unconscious > > > > > level of perceptual, emotional " scheme " from which emanate our > > deepest > > > > > emotional longings and perceptual inclinations. > > > > > > > > > > How could it be otherwise? > > > > > > > > > > For many critical months and years our physical and mental > survival > > > > > depends entirely on the caregiver; thus the affective intensity of > > > > > this " critical " early stage is colossal; we attach ourselves > to our > > > > > provider with utterly spontaneous, unabated ardor; nothing is held > > > > > back; our needs for nourishment and care, for love, are > " activated " > > > > > continuously, over and over again, thousands upon thousands of > > times, > > > > > to become rooted synaptically in our brains; our emotional > " values " > > > > > are established in an indelible, permanent manner that seeks > > > > > fulfillment forever after along lines that affectively recall the > > > > > initial, primal interaction. > > > > > > > > > > In short, we internalize into our developing minds early on the > > > > > instinct-driven, affective " pattern " that will govern our > > behavior as > > > > > we relinquish the immediate familial unit and move into the wider > > > > > world of culture, including of course the culture's religious > > > dimension. > > > > > > > > > > The " truth " of the religious narrative with the Loving-Parent > God at > > > > > the center is confirmed implicitly, unconsciously through a > primed, > > > > > fully readied > > > > > " attractor state " that resides at the fountain of our > > interpersonally > > > > > sculpted, impersonally wired brains. > > > > > > > > > > We are not simply attracted to the religious narrative to which > > we are > > > > > eventually exposed; the system is completely dynamic: it is we who > > > > > also attract the narrative to ourselves, yanking it in, > > absorbing it, > > > > > mapping it onto the model, the scheme, upon which we've been > relying > > > > > all along. > > > > > > > > > > The attractor state within us is as eager for confirmation of > > its core > > > > > perception as those who offer the narrative to us are eager > for our > > > > > acceptance of it and our entry into the flock. > > > > > > > > > > It is not only religion, needless to say, but a wide variety of > > human > > > > > participations that are linked firmly to the basic biological > > > > > situation: our ongoing personal relationships at both the > individual > > > > > and group level (spouce, family) our national loyalty and > > > > > identification with " motherland " and " fatherland " including the > > > > > " leader " of " chief " ; our absorption in music, art, poetry, > > literature; > > > > > and of course our inclination to make gods out of other > institutions > > > > > such as science or philosophy. > > > > > > > > > > However, because the spiritual and supernatural domain of > > religion is > > > > > imponderable, invisible, entirely unsupported by what we term > > > > > emperical criteria, because for billions of people everywhere > mental > > > > > and emotional stablitiy depends significantly on religious > ties, and > > > > > finally because religion must compete with other emergent > > systems and > > > > > brain states that come into play as an individual develops over > > time, > > > > > religion's humble, worldly task is to reinforce, to strengthen, to > > > > > deepen the participant's original, brain based convictions through > > > > > steady, even continuous exposure to ritual and to the word from > > early > > > > > childhood onward. > > > > > > > > > > The neurons that fired together are wired together to create a > > primal > > > > > attractor state during the early period must be regularly > > activated in > > > > > the proper devotional context to ensure the continuation of the > > > > > supernatural attachment that emerged on the initial exposure > to the > > > > > official, sacred narrative. > > > > > > > > > > To put it another way, the worldly task of institutional > religion is > > > > > to provide the flock with the inspiration to continue its > mapping of > > > > > the primal, core experience of attachment to the parental figure > > onto > > > > > the orthodox version of the substitute Parent-God. > > > > > > > > > > Unless this happens, the flock and earthy shepherds are apt to > > > > disappear. > > > > > Accordingly. to employ a few examples in illustration, when we > hear > > > > > the gospel choir on television singing. " Jesus came and found me > > / and > > > > > put his arms around me. " we detect the primal attractor state of > > > > > union, with the biological caregiver humming along quietly > > beneath the > > > > > mapped-on surface expression of the core fantasy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > M.D. Faber > > > > > > > > > > " The Psychological Roots of Religious Belief " > > > > > > > > > > > > and...you believe him? > > > > > > > > LOL! > > > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > > > > an amazing thing: > > > > > > people so obsessed with negating god.. > > > > > > are more obsessed with the god idea > > > > > > than the so called 'religious'. > > > > > > it's like a fat ass always trying to deny that his ass is fat. > > > > > > he tells you to get " scientific " .. > > > > > > it's the pants that make his fat ass look fat. > > > > > > right'o sports. > > > > > > if there wasn't a silly need to address this 'god' thing.. > > > > > > they simply would shut their mouths? > > > > > > why the hell should anyone.. > > > > > > spend so much time.. > > > > > > make so much effort.. > > > > > > scribble scribble scribble so many f***ing times.. > > > > > > that " they " don't need or believe.. > > > > > > in what they don't believe in or need? > > > > > > sounds like a stupid 10 year old telling dad he's leaving home. > > > > > > fine. > > > > > > here's what you tell that transparently frightened child: > > > > > > " OK kid..get the f*** out and shut up... > > > > > > too much information punk... > > > > > > no one needs or wants to hear your false bravado. > > > > > > no one gives a shit if you stay or go.. > > > > > > nobody cares if you believe in god or if you believe in nothing. > > > > > > or if you don't believe in either/or OR neither/nor... > > > > > > just get out of town and quit trying to act brave and bold.. > > > > > > it's not impressive it's goddamn boring. " > > > > > > > > > > > > if there was a god he wouldn't give a shit. > > > > > > i mean that's the essence of a god. > > > > > > if there is no god.. > > > > > > what in the hell is the point.. > > > > > > in trying to convince anyone that " you " don't buy it? > > > > > > so what? > > > > > > bully for you now eat your goddamn pablum and be still. > > > > > > LOL! > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > > > > > > You didn't read it did you? > > > > It explains clearly the origin of the belief in a personal god. > > > > ......a belief that leads to the devaluation of the present life and > > places all hope in an imaginary future in an imaginary heaven. > > > > ......a delusional belief system that threatens to destroy this > > beautiful little blue ball. > > > > Do you imagine that religion is harmless? > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > do you imagine anything is dangerous? > > to what or to whom? > > there is nothing to fear.. > > there is nothing to act fearless about.. > > there is no god (personal or otherwise). > > there is no such thing as wisdom. > > there is no need to make rapture of a common dirt ball in space. > > it's all imaginary. > > including this and including all 'explanations' of nothing. > > it doesn't move me pal. > > not the god, not the blue planet, not the sorry ass 'concern'. > > none of that bullshit matters. > > and it doesn't matter that it doesn't matter. > > unless and only.. > > 'you' think so and want to make a 'cause' of it. > > that's no different than the cause of allah. > > No God Is Great! > > and.. > > There is No God but No God. > > yeah that's so cool. > > get real. > > .b b.b. and there is nothing real to get real about. do you imagine there is? ..b b.b. 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Guest guest Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 > > do you imagine anything is dangerous? > > to what or to whom? > > there is nothing to fear.. > > there is nothing to act fearless about.. > > there is no god (personal or otherwise). > > there is no such thing as wisdom. > > there is no need to make rapture of a common dirt ball in space. > > it's all imaginary. > > including this and including all 'explanations' of nothing. > > it doesn't move me pal. > > not the god, not the blue planet, not the sorry ass 'concern'. > > none of that bullshit matters. > > and it doesn't matter that it doesn't matter. > > unless and only.. > > 'you' think so and want to make a 'cause' of it. > > that's no different than the cause of allah. > > No God Is Great! > > and.. > > There is No God but No God. > > yeah that's so cool. > > get real. > > .b b.b. > Get real? toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " The neurobiological approach to an " attractor state " helps us > > along > > > > > > nicely as we strive to disclose furhte the unconscious origin > > of the > > > > > > human creature's inclination to " people " the world with > > > spirits,and in > > > > > > particular with a supernatural Parent God. > > > > > > > > > > > > Repeated states of activation at the critical early period of > > > > > > development shape the structure of the neural circuits which > > > then form > > > > > > the functional basis for the enduring states of mind within the > > > > > > individual. > > > > > > > > > > > > Accordingly, what transpires between the offspring and caregiver > > > > > > during the early period comes gradually to serve as not > merely one > > > > > > neurobiological " state " among many others but the central, > > enduring > > > > > > " attractor state " of our ongoing lives. > > > > > > > > > > > > The basic biological situation gives rise to the implicit, > > > unconscious > > > > > > level of perceptual, emotional " scheme " from which emanate our > > > deepest > > > > > > emotional longings and perceptual inclinations. > > > > > > > > > > > > How could it be otherwise? > > > > > > > > > > > > For many critical months and years our physical and mental > > survival > > > > > > depends entirely on the caregiver; thus the affective > intensity of > > > > > > this " critical " early stage is colossal; we attach ourselves > > to our > > > > > > provider with utterly spontaneous, unabated ardor; nothing > is held > > > > > > back; our needs for nourishment and care, for love, are > > " activated " > > > > > > continuously, over and over again, thousands upon thousands of > > > times, > > > > > > to become rooted synaptically in our brains; our emotional > > " values " > > > > > > are established in an indelible, permanent manner that seeks > > > > > > fulfillment forever after along lines that affectively > recall the > > > > > > initial, primal interaction. > > > > > > > > > > > > In short, we internalize into our developing minds early on the > > > > > > instinct-driven, affective " pattern " that will govern our > > > behavior as > > > > > > we relinquish the immediate familial unit and move into the > wider > > > > > > world of culture, including of course the culture's religious > > > > dimension. > > > > > > > > > > > > The " truth " of the religious narrative with the Loving-Parent > > God at > > > > > > the center is confirmed implicitly, unconsciously through a > > primed, > > > > > > fully readied > > > > > > " attractor state " that resides at the fountain of our > > > interpersonally > > > > > > sculpted, impersonally wired brains. > > > > > > > > > > > > We are not simply attracted to the religious narrative to which > > > we are > > > > > > eventually exposed; the system is completely dynamic: it is > we who > > > > > > also attract the narrative to ourselves, yanking it in, > > > absorbing it, > > > > > > mapping it onto the model, the scheme, upon which we've been > > relying > > > > > > all along. > > > > > > > > > > > > The attractor state within us is as eager for confirmation of > > > its core > > > > > > perception as those who offer the narrative to us are eager > > for our > > > > > > acceptance of it and our entry into the flock. > > > > > > > > > > > > It is not only religion, needless to say, but a wide variety of > > > human > > > > > > participations that are linked firmly to the basic biological > > > > > > situation: our ongoing personal relationships at both the > > individual > > > > > > and group level (spouce, family) our national loyalty and > > > > > > identification with " motherland " and " fatherland " including the > > > > > > " leader " of " chief " ; our absorption in music, art, poetry, > > > literature; > > > > > > and of course our inclination to make gods out of other > > institutions > > > > > > such as science or philosophy. > > > > > > > > > > > > However, because the spiritual and supernatural domain of > > > religion is > > > > > > imponderable, invisible, entirely unsupported by what we term > > > > > > emperical criteria, because for billions of people everywhere > > mental > > > > > > and emotional stablitiy depends significantly on religious > > ties, and > > > > > > finally because religion must compete with other emergent > > > systems and > > > > > > brain states that come into play as an individual develops over > > > time, > > > > > > religion's humble, worldly task is to reinforce, to > strengthen, to > > > > > > deepen the participant's original, brain based convictions > through > > > > > > steady, even continuous exposure to ritual and to the word from > > > early > > > > > > childhood onward. > > > > > > > > > > > > The neurons that fired together are wired together to create a > > > primal > > > > > > attractor state during the early period must be regularly > > > activated in > > > > > > the proper devotional context to ensure the continuation of the > > > > > > supernatural attachment that emerged on the initial exposure > > to the > > > > > > official, sacred narrative. > > > > > > > > > > > > To put it another way, the worldly task of institutional > > religion is > > > > > > to provide the flock with the inspiration to continue its > > mapping of > > > > > > the primal, core experience of attachment to the parental figure > > > onto > > > > > > the orthodox version of the substitute Parent-God. > > > > > > > > > > > > Unless this happens, the flock and earthy shepherds are apt to > > > > > disappear. > > > > > > Accordingly. to employ a few examples in illustration, when we > > hear > > > > > > the gospel choir on television singing. " Jesus came and found me > > > / and > > > > > > put his arms around me. " we detect the primal attractor state of > > > > > > union, with the biological caregiver humming along quietly > > > beneath the > > > > > > mapped-on surface expression of the core fantasy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > M.D. Faber > > > > > > > > > > > > " The Psychological Roots of Religious Belief " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and...you believe him? > > > > > > > > > > LOL! > > > > > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > > > > > > > an amazing thing: > > > > > > > > people so obsessed with negating god.. > > > > > > > > are more obsessed with the god idea > > > > > > > > than the so called 'religious'. > > > > > > > > it's like a fat ass always trying to deny that his ass is fat. > > > > > > > > he tells you to get " scientific " .. > > > > > > > > it's the pants that make his fat ass look fat. > > > > > > > > right'o sports. > > > > > > > > if there wasn't a silly need to address this 'god' thing.. > > > > > > > > they simply would shut their mouths? > > > > > > > > why the hell should anyone.. > > > > > > > > spend so much time.. > > > > > > > > make so much effort.. > > > > > > > > scribble scribble scribble so many f***ing times.. > > > > > > > > that " they " don't need or believe.. > > > > > > > > in what they don't believe in or need? > > > > > > > > sounds like a stupid 10 year old telling dad he's leaving home. > > > > > > > > fine. > > > > > > > > here's what you tell that transparently frightened child: > > > > > > > > " OK kid..get the f*** out and shut up... > > > > > > > > too much information punk... > > > > > > > > no one needs or wants to hear your false bravado. > > > > > > > > no one gives a shit if you stay or go.. > > > > > > > > nobody cares if you believe in god or if you believe in nothing. > > > > > > > > or if you don't believe in either/or OR neither/nor... > > > > > > > > just get out of town and quit trying to act brave and bold.. > > > > > > > > it's not impressive it's goddamn boring. " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if there was a god he wouldn't give a shit. > > > > > > > > i mean that's the essence of a god. > > > > > > > > if there is no god.. > > > > > > > > what in the hell is the point.. > > > > > > > > in trying to convince anyone that " you " don't buy it? > > > > > > > > so what? > > > > > > > > bully for you now eat your goddamn pablum and be still. > > > > > > > > LOL! > > > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You didn't read it did you? > > > > > > It explains clearly the origin of the belief in a personal god. > > > > > > ......a belief that leads to the devaluation of the present life and > > > places all hope in an imaginary future in an imaginary heaven. > > > > > > ......a delusional belief system that threatens to destroy this > > > beautiful little blue ball. > > > > > > Do you imagine that religion is harmless? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > do you imagine anything is dangerous? > > > > to what or to whom? > > > > there is nothing to fear.. > > > > there is nothing to act fearless about.. > > > > there is no god (personal or otherwise). > > > > there is no such thing as wisdom. > > > > there is no need to make rapture of a common dirt ball in space. > > > > it's all imaginary. > > > > including this and including all 'explanations' of nothing. > > > > it doesn't move me pal. > > > > not the god, not the blue planet, not the sorry ass 'concern'. > > > > none of that bullshit matters. > > > > and it doesn't matter that it doesn't matter. > > > > unless and only.. > > > > 'you' think so and want to make a 'cause' of it. > > > > that's no different than the cause of allah. > > > > No God Is Great! > > > > and.. > > > > There is No God but No God. > > > > yeah that's so cool. > > > > get real. > > > > .b b.b. > > > and there is nothing real to get real about. > > do you imagine there is? > > .b b.b. > Not I. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " The neurobiological approach to an " attractor state " helps us > along > > > > > nicely as we strive to disclose furhte the unconscious origin > of the > > > > > human creature's inclination to " people " the world with > > spirits,and in > > > > > particular with a supernatural Parent God. > > > > > > > > > > Repeated states of activation at the critical early period of > > > > > development shape the structure of the neural circuits which > > then form > > > > > the functional basis for the enduring states of mind within the > > > > > individual. > > > > > > > > > > Accordingly, what transpires between the offspring and caregiver > > > > > during the early period comes gradually to serve as not merely one > > > > > neurobiological " state " among many others but the central, > enduring > > > > > " attractor state " of our ongoing lives. > > > > > > > > > > The basic biological situation gives rise to the implicit, > > unconscious > > > > > level of perceptual, emotional " scheme " from which emanate our > > deepest > > > > > emotional longings and perceptual inclinations. > > > > > > > > > > How could it be otherwise? > > > > > > > > > > For many critical months and years our physical and mental > survival > > > > > depends entirely on the caregiver; thus the affective intensity of > > > > > this " critical " early stage is colossal; we attach ourselves > to our > > > > > provider with utterly spontaneous, unabated ardor; nothing is held > > > > > back; our needs for nourishment and care, for love, are > " activated " > > > > > continuously, over and over again, thousands upon thousands of > > times, > > > > > to become rooted synaptically in our brains; our emotional > " values " > > > > > are established in an indelible, permanent manner that seeks > > > > > fulfillment forever after along lines that affectively recall the > > > > > initial, primal interaction. > > > > > > > > > > In short, we internalize into our developing minds early on the > > > > > instinct-driven, affective " pattern " that will govern our > > behavior as > > > > > we relinquish the immediate familial unit and move into the wider > > > > > world of culture, including of course the culture's religious > > > dimension. > > > > > > > > > > The " truth " of the religious narrative with the Loving-Parent > God at > > > > > the center is confirmed implicitly, unconsciously through a > primed, > > > > > fully readied > > > > > " attractor state " that resides at the fountain of our > > interpersonally > > > > > sculpted, impersonally wired brains. > > > > > > > > > > We are not simply attracted to the religious narrative to which > > we are > > > > > eventually exposed; the system is completely dynamic: it is we who > > > > > also attract the narrative to ourselves, yanking it in, > > absorbing it, > > > > > mapping it onto the model, the scheme, upon which we've been > relying > > > > > all along. > > > > > > > > > > The attractor state within us is as eager for confirmation of > > its core > > > > > perception as those who offer the narrative to us are eager > for our > > > > > acceptance of it and our entry into the flock. > > > > > > > > > > It is not only religion, needless to say, but a wide variety of > > human > > > > > participations that are linked firmly to the basic biological > > > > > situation: our ongoing personal relationships at both the > individual > > > > > and group level (spouce, family) our national loyalty and > > > > > identification with " motherland " and " fatherland " including the > > > > > " leader " of " chief " ; our absorption in music, art, poetry, > > literature; > > > > > and of course our inclination to make gods out of other > institutions > > > > > such as science or philosophy. > > > > > > > > > > However, because the spiritual and supernatural domain of > > religion is > > > > > imponderable, invisible, entirely unsupported by what we term > > > > > emperical criteria, because for billions of people everywhere > mental > > > > > and emotional stablitiy depends significantly on religious > ties, and > > > > > finally because religion must compete with other emergent > > systems and > > > > > brain states that come into play as an individual develops over > > time, > > > > > religion's humble, worldly task is to reinforce, to strengthen, to > > > > > deepen the participant's original, brain based convictions through > > > > > steady, even continuous exposure to ritual and to the word from > > early > > > > > childhood onward. > > > > > > > > > > The neurons that fired together are wired together to create a > > primal > > > > > attractor state during the early period must be regularly > > activated in > > > > > the proper devotional context to ensure the continuation of the > > > > > supernatural attachment that emerged on the initial exposure > to the > > > > > official, sacred narrative. > > > > > > > > > > To put it another way, the worldly task of institutional > religion is > > > > > to provide the flock with the inspiration to continue its > mapping of > > > > > the primal, core experience of attachment to the parental figure > > onto > > > > > the orthodox version of the substitute Parent-God. > > > > > > > > > > Unless this happens, the flock and earthy shepherds are apt to > > > > disappear. > > > > > Accordingly. to employ a few examples in illustration, when we > hear > > > > > the gospel choir on television singing. " Jesus came and found me > > / and > > > > > put his arms around me. " we detect the primal attractor state of > > > > > union, with the biological caregiver humming along quietly > > beneath the > > > > > mapped-on surface expression of the core fantasy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > M.D. Faber > > > > > > > > > > " The Psychological Roots of Religious Belief " > > > > > > > > > > > > and...you believe him? > > > > > > > > LOL! > > > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > > > > an amazing thing: > > > > > > people so obsessed with negating god.. > > > > > > are more obsessed with the god idea > > > > > > than the so called 'religious'. > > > > > > it's like a fat ass always trying to deny that his ass is fat. > > > > > > he tells you to get " scientific " .. > > > > > > it's the pants that make his fat ass look fat. > > > > > > right'o sports. > > > > > > if there wasn't a silly need to address this 'god' thing.. > > > > > > they simply would shut their mouths? > > > > > > why the hell should anyone.. > > > > > > spend so much time.. > > > > > > make so much effort.. > > > > > > scribble scribble scribble so many f***ing times.. > > > > > > that " they " don't need or believe.. > > > > > > in what they don't believe in or need? > > > > > > sounds like a stupid 10 year old telling dad he's leaving home. > > > > > > fine. > > > > > > here's what you tell that transparently frightened child: > > > > > > " OK kid..get the f*** out and shut up... > > > > > > too much information punk... > > > > > > no one needs or wants to hear your false bravado. > > > > > > no one gives a shit if you stay or go.. > > > > > > nobody cares if you believe in god or if you believe in nothing. > > > > > > or if you don't believe in either/or OR neither/nor... > > > > > > just get out of town and quit trying to act brave and bold.. > > > > > > it's not impressive it's goddamn boring. " > > > > > > > > > > > > if there was a god he wouldn't give a shit. > > > > > > i mean that's the essence of a god. > > > > > > if there is no god.. > > > > > > what in the hell is the point.. > > > > > > in trying to convince anyone that " you " don't buy it? > > > > > > so what? > > > > > > bully for you now eat your goddamn pablum and be still. > > > > > > LOL! > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > > > > > > You didn't read it did you? > > > > It explains clearly the origin of the belief in a personal god. > > > > ......a belief that leads to the devaluation of the present life and > > places all hope in an imaginary future in an imaginary heaven. > > > > ......a delusional belief system that threatens to destroy this > > beautiful little blue ball. > > > > Do you imagine that religion is harmless? > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > do you imagine anything is dangerous? > > to what or to whom? > > there is nothing to fear.. > > there is nothing to act fearless about.. > > there is no god (personal or otherwise). > > there is no such thing as wisdom. > > there is no need to make rapture of a common dirt ball in space. > > it's all imaginary. > > including this and including all 'explanations' of nothing. > > it doesn't move me pal. > > not the god, not the blue planet, not the sorry ass 'concern'. > > none of that bullshit matters. > > and it doesn't matter that it doesn't matter. > > unless and only.. > > 'you' think so and want to make a 'cause' of it. > > that's no different than the cause of allah. > > No God Is Great! > > and.. > > There is No God but No God. > > yeah that's so cool. > > get real. > > .b b.b. > I see a hungry man........I offer a few dollars. I see a woman dying........I hold her hand. I see a child being beaten.......I intrude. I see people floundering in delusion.........I offer insight. Nothing matters...........some things matter less than others. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " > <Roberibus111@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " The neurobiological approach to an " attractor state " helps us > > > along > > > > > > > nicely as we strive to disclose furhte the unconscious origin > > > of the > > > > > > > human creature's inclination to " people " the world with > > > > spirits,and in > > > > > > > particular with a supernatural Parent God. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Repeated states of activation at the critical early period of > > > > > > > development shape the structure of the neural circuits which > > > > then form > > > > > > > the functional basis for the enduring states of mind > within the > > > > > > > individual. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Accordingly, what transpires between the offspring and > caregiver > > > > > > > during the early period comes gradually to serve as not > > merely one > > > > > > > neurobiological " state " among many others but the central, > > > enduring > > > > > > > " attractor state " of our ongoing lives. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The basic biological situation gives rise to the implicit, > > > > unconscious > > > > > > > level of perceptual, emotional " scheme " from which emanate our > > > > deepest > > > > > > > emotional longings and perceptual inclinations. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How could it be otherwise? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For many critical months and years our physical and mental > > > survival > > > > > > > depends entirely on the caregiver; thus the affective > > intensity of > > > > > > > this " critical " early stage is colossal; we attach ourselves > > > to our > > > > > > > provider with utterly spontaneous, unabated ardor; nothing > > is held > > > > > > > back; our needs for nourishment and care, for love, are > > > " activated " > > > > > > > continuously, over and over again, thousands upon thousands of > > > > times, > > > > > > > to become rooted synaptically in our brains; our emotional > > > " values " > > > > > > > are established in an indelible, permanent manner that seeks > > > > > > > fulfillment forever after along lines that affectively > > recall the > > > > > > > initial, primal interaction. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In short, we internalize into our developing minds early > on the > > > > > > > instinct-driven, affective " pattern " that will govern our > > > > behavior as > > > > > > > we relinquish the immediate familial unit and move into the > > wider > > > > > > > world of culture, including of course the culture's religious > > > > > dimension. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The " truth " of the religious narrative with the Loving-Parent > > > God at > > > > > > > the center is confirmed implicitly, unconsciously through a > > > primed, > > > > > > > fully readied > > > > > > > " attractor state " that resides at the fountain of our > > > > interpersonally > > > > > > > sculpted, impersonally wired brains. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We are not simply attracted to the religious narrative to > which > > > > we are > > > > > > > eventually exposed; the system is completely dynamic: it is > > we who > > > > > > > also attract the narrative to ourselves, yanking it in, > > > > absorbing it, > > > > > > > mapping it onto the model, the scheme, upon which we've been > > > relying > > > > > > > all along. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The attractor state within us is as eager for confirmation of > > > > its core > > > > > > > perception as those who offer the narrative to us are eager > > > for our > > > > > > > acceptance of it and our entry into the flock. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is not only religion, needless to say, but a wide > variety of > > > > human > > > > > > > participations that are linked firmly to the basic biological > > > > > > > situation: our ongoing personal relationships at both the > > > individual > > > > > > > and group level (spouce, family) our national loyalty and > > > > > > > identification with " motherland " and " fatherland " > including the > > > > > > > " leader " of " chief " ; our absorption in music, art, poetry, > > > > literature; > > > > > > > and of course our inclination to make gods out of other > > > institutions > > > > > > > such as science or philosophy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However, because the spiritual and supernatural domain of > > > > religion is > > > > > > > imponderable, invisible, entirely unsupported by what we term > > > > > > > emperical criteria, because for billions of people everywhere > > > mental > > > > > > > and emotional stablitiy depends significantly on religious > > > ties, and > > > > > > > finally because religion must compete with other emergent > > > > systems and > > > > > > > brain states that come into play as an individual develops > over > > > > time, > > > > > > > religion's humble, worldly task is to reinforce, to > > strengthen, to > > > > > > > deepen the participant's original, brain based convictions > > through > > > > > > > steady, even continuous exposure to ritual and to the word > from > > > > early > > > > > > > childhood onward. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The neurons that fired together are wired together to create a > > > > primal > > > > > > > attractor state during the early period must be regularly > > > > activated in > > > > > > > the proper devotional context to ensure the continuation > of the > > > > > > > supernatural attachment that emerged on the initial exposure > > > to the > > > > > > > official, sacred narrative. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To put it another way, the worldly task of institutional > > > religion is > > > > > > > to provide the flock with the inspiration to continue its > > > mapping of > > > > > > > the primal, core experience of attachment to the parental > figure > > > > onto > > > > > > > the orthodox version of the substitute Parent-God. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Unless this happens, the flock and earthy shepherds are apt to > > > > > > disappear. > > > > > > > Accordingly. to employ a few examples in illustration, when we > > > hear > > > > > > > the gospel choir on television singing. " Jesus came and > found me > > > > / and > > > > > > > put his arms around me. " we detect the primal attractor > state of > > > > > > > union, with the biological caregiver humming along quietly > > > > beneath the > > > > > > > mapped-on surface expression of the core fantasy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > M.D. Faber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " The Psychological Roots of Religious Belief " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and...you believe him? > > > > > > > > > > > > LOL! > > > > > > > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > an amazing thing: > > > > > > > > > > people so obsessed with negating god.. > > > > > > > > > > are more obsessed with the god idea > > > > > > > > > > than the so called 'religious'. > > > > > > > > > > it's like a fat ass always trying to deny that his ass is fat. > > > > > > > > > > he tells you to get " scientific " .. > > > > > > > > > > it's the pants that make his fat ass look fat. > > > > > > > > > > right'o sports. > > > > > > > > > > if there wasn't a silly need to address this 'god' thing.. > > > > > > > > > > they simply would shut their mouths? > > > > > > > > > > why the hell should anyone.. > > > > > > > > > > spend so much time.. > > > > > > > > > > make so much effort.. > > > > > > > > > > scribble scribble scribble so many f***ing times.. > > > > > > > > > > that " they " don't need or believe.. > > > > > > > > > > in what they don't believe in or need? > > > > > > > > > > sounds like a stupid 10 year old telling dad he's leaving home. > > > > > > > > > > fine. > > > > > > > > > > here's what you tell that transparently frightened child: > > > > > > > > > > " OK kid..get the f*** out and shut up... > > > > > > > > > > too much information punk... > > > > > > > > > > no one needs or wants to hear your false bravado. > > > > > > > > > > no one gives a shit if you stay or go.. > > > > > > > > > > nobody cares if you believe in god or if you believe in nothing. > > > > > > > > > > or if you don't believe in either/or OR neither/nor... > > > > > > > > > > just get out of town and quit trying to act brave and bold.. > > > > > > > > > > it's not impressive it's goddamn boring. " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if there was a god he wouldn't give a shit. > > > > > > > > > > i mean that's the essence of a god. > > > > > > > > > > if there is no god.. > > > > > > > > > > what in the hell is the point.. > > > > > > > > > > in trying to convince anyone that " you " don't buy it? > > > > > > > > > > so what? > > > > > > > > > > bully for you now eat your goddamn pablum and be still. > > > > > > > > > > LOL! > > > > > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You didn't read it did you? > > > > > > > > It explains clearly the origin of the belief in a personal god. > > > > > > > > ......a belief that leads to the devaluation of the present life and > > > > places all hope in an imaginary future in an imaginary heaven. > > > > > > > > ......a delusional belief system that threatens to destroy this > > > > beautiful little blue ball. > > > > > > > > Do you imagine that religion is harmless? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > do you imagine anything is dangerous? > > > > > > to what or to whom? > > > > > > there is nothing to fear.. > > > > > > there is nothing to act fearless about.. > > > > > > there is no god (personal or otherwise). > > > > > > there is no such thing as wisdom. > > > > > > there is no need to make rapture of a common dirt ball in space. > > > > > > it's all imaginary. > > > > > > including this and including all 'explanations' of nothing. > > > > > > it doesn't move me pal. > > > > > > not the god, not the blue planet, not the sorry ass 'concern'. > > > > > > none of that bullshit matters. > > > > > > and it doesn't matter that it doesn't matter. > > > > > > unless and only.. > > > > > > 'you' think so and want to make a 'cause' of it. > > > > > > that's no different than the cause of allah. > > > > > > No God Is Great! > > > > > > and.. > > > > > > There is No God but No God. > > > > > > yeah that's so cool. > > > > > > get real. > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > and there is nothing real to get real about. > > > > do you imagine there is? > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > Not I. > > > > toombaru who said: " a belief that leads to the devaluation of the present life " " a delusional belief system that threatens to destroy this beautiful little blue ball. " and who asked: " Do you imagine that religion is harmless? " or were you talking about imaginary harm and harmlessness? or an imaginary devaluation of an imaginary present life? or an imaginary delusional system that " threatens " etc etc. ?????? well than you're agreeing with me. smart dude you are..well..not really. and i'm not either. we are just plain not anything. not harmful or harmless.. not believing or non believing.. not not nothing neither. ..b b.b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > > > > > do you imagine anything is dangerous? > > > > to what or to whom? > > > > there is nothing to fear.. > > > > there is nothing to act fearless about.. > > > > there is no god (personal or otherwise). > > > > there is no such thing as wisdom. > > > > there is no need to make rapture of a common dirt ball in space. > > > > it's all imaginary. > > > > including this and including all 'explanations' of nothing. > > > > it doesn't move me pal. > > > > not the god, not the blue planet, not the sorry ass 'concern'. > > > > none of that bullshit matters. > > > > and it doesn't matter that it doesn't matter. > > > > unless and only.. > > > > 'you' think so and want to make a 'cause' of it. > > > > that's no different than the cause of allah. > > > > No God Is Great! > > > > and.. > > > > There is No God but No God. > > > > yeah that's so cool. > > > > get real. > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > Get real? > > > toombaru read the addendum. you didn't did you. it came right after the thing your trying to be clever avbout. you're slow on the uptake. and to quick at the draw. slow down cowpoke. ..b b.b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " The neurobiological approach to an " attractor state " helps us > > along > > > > > > nicely as we strive to disclose furhte the unconscious origin > > of the > > > > > > human creature's inclination to " people " the world with > > > spirits,and in > > > > > > particular with a supernatural Parent God. > > > > > > > > > > > > Repeated states of activation at the critical early period of > > > > > > development shape the structure of the neural circuits which > > > then form > > > > > > the functional basis for the enduring states of mind within the > > > > > > individual. > > > > > > > > > > > > Accordingly, what transpires between the offspring and caregiver > > > > > > during the early period comes gradually to serve as not > merely one > > > > > > neurobiological " state " among many others but the central, > > enduring > > > > > > " attractor state " of our ongoing lives. > > > > > > > > > > > > The basic biological situation gives rise to the implicit, > > > unconscious > > > > > > level of perceptual, emotional " scheme " from which emanate our > > > deepest > > > > > > emotional longings and perceptual inclinations. > > > > > > > > > > > > How could it be otherwise? > > > > > > > > > > > > For many critical months and years our physical and mental > > survival > > > > > > depends entirely on the caregiver; thus the affective > intensity of > > > > > > this " critical " early stage is colossal; we attach ourselves > > to our > > > > > > provider with utterly spontaneous, unabated ardor; nothing > is held > > > > > > back; our needs for nourishment and care, for love, are > > " activated " > > > > > > continuously, over and over again, thousands upon thousands of > > > times, > > > > > > to become rooted synaptically in our brains; our emotional > > " values " > > > > > > are established in an indelible, permanent manner that seeks > > > > > > fulfillment forever after along lines that affectively > recall the > > > > > > initial, primal interaction. > > > > > > > > > > > > In short, we internalize into our developing minds early on the > > > > > > instinct-driven, affective " pattern " that will govern our > > > behavior as > > > > > > we relinquish the immediate familial unit and move into the > wider > > > > > > world of culture, including of course the culture's religious > > > > dimension. > > > > > > > > > > > > The " truth " of the religious narrative with the Loving-Parent > > God at > > > > > > the center is confirmed implicitly, unconsciously through a > > primed, > > > > > > fully readied > > > > > > " attractor state " that resides at the fountain of our > > > interpersonally > > > > > > sculpted, impersonally wired brains. > > > > > > > > > > > > We are not simply attracted to the religious narrative to which > > > we are > > > > > > eventually exposed; the system is completely dynamic: it is > we who > > > > > > also attract the narrative to ourselves, yanking it in, > > > absorbing it, > > > > > > mapping it onto the model, the scheme, upon which we've been > > relying > > > > > > all along. > > > > > > > > > > > > The attractor state within us is as eager for confirmation of > > > its core > > > > > > perception as those who offer the narrative to us are eager > > for our > > > > > > acceptance of it and our entry into the flock. > > > > > > > > > > > > It is not only religion, needless to say, but a wide variety of > > > human > > > > > > participations that are linked firmly to the basic biological > > > > > > situation: our ongoing personal relationships at both the > > individual > > > > > > and group level (spouce, family) our national loyalty and > > > > > > identification with " motherland " and " fatherland " including the > > > > > > " leader " of " chief " ; our absorption in music, art, poetry, > > > literature; > > > > > > and of course our inclination to make gods out of other > > institutions > > > > > > such as science or philosophy. > > > > > > > > > > > > However, because the spiritual and supernatural domain of > > > religion is > > > > > > imponderable, invisible, entirely unsupported by what we term > > > > > > emperical criteria, because for billions of people everywhere > > mental > > > > > > and emotional stablitiy depends significantly on religious > > ties, and > > > > > > finally because religion must compete with other emergent > > > systems and > > > > > > brain states that come into play as an individual develops over > > > time, > > > > > > religion's humble, worldly task is to reinforce, to > strengthen, to > > > > > > deepen the participant's original, brain based convictions > through > > > > > > steady, even continuous exposure to ritual and to the word from > > > early > > > > > > childhood onward. > > > > > > > > > > > > The neurons that fired together are wired together to create a > > > primal > > > > > > attractor state during the early period must be regularly > > > activated in > > > > > > the proper devotional context to ensure the continuation of the > > > > > > supernatural attachment that emerged on the initial exposure > > to the > > > > > > official, sacred narrative. > > > > > > > > > > > > To put it another way, the worldly task of institutional > > religion is > > > > > > to provide the flock with the inspiration to continue its > > mapping of > > > > > > the primal, core experience of attachment to the parental figure > > > onto > > > > > > the orthodox version of the substitute Parent-God. > > > > > > > > > > > > Unless this happens, the flock and earthy shepherds are apt to > > > > > disappear. > > > > > > Accordingly. to employ a few examples in illustration, when we > > hear > > > > > > the gospel choir on television singing. " Jesus came and found me > > > / and > > > > > > put his arms around me. " we detect the primal attractor state of > > > > > > union, with the biological caregiver humming along quietly > > > beneath the > > > > > > mapped-on surface expression of the core fantasy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > M.D. Faber > > > > > > > > > > > > " The Psychological Roots of Religious Belief " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and...you believe him? > > > > > > > > > > LOL! > > > > > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > > > > > > > an amazing thing: > > > > > > > > people so obsessed with negating god.. > > > > > > > > are more obsessed with the god idea > > > > > > > > than the so called 'religious'. > > > > > > > > it's like a fat ass always trying to deny that his ass is fat. > > > > > > > > he tells you to get " scientific " .. > > > > > > > > it's the pants that make his fat ass look fat. > > > > > > > > right'o sports. > > > > > > > > if there wasn't a silly need to address this 'god' thing.. > > > > > > > > they simply would shut their mouths? > > > > > > > > why the hell should anyone.. > > > > > > > > spend so much time.. > > > > > > > > make so much effort.. > > > > > > > > scribble scribble scribble so many f***ing times.. > > > > > > > > that " they " don't need or believe.. > > > > > > > > in what they don't believe in or need? > > > > > > > > sounds like a stupid 10 year old telling dad he's leaving home. > > > > > > > > fine. > > > > > > > > here's what you tell that transparently frightened child: > > > > > > > > " OK kid..get the f*** out and shut up... > > > > > > > > too much information punk... > > > > > > > > no one needs or wants to hear your false bravado. > > > > > > > > no one gives a shit if you stay or go.. > > > > > > > > nobody cares if you believe in god or if you believe in nothing. > > > > > > > > or if you don't believe in either/or OR neither/nor... > > > > > > > > just get out of town and quit trying to act brave and bold.. > > > > > > > > it's not impressive it's goddamn boring. " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if there was a god he wouldn't give a shit. > > > > > > > > i mean that's the essence of a god. > > > > > > > > if there is no god.. > > > > > > > > what in the hell is the point.. > > > > > > > > in trying to convince anyone that " you " don't buy it? > > > > > > > > so what? > > > > > > > > bully for you now eat your goddamn pablum and be still. > > > > > > > > LOL! > > > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You didn't read it did you? > > > > > > It explains clearly the origin of the belief in a personal god. > > > > > > ......a belief that leads to the devaluation of the present life and > > > places all hope in an imaginary future in an imaginary heaven. > > > > > > ......a delusional belief system that threatens to destroy this > > > beautiful little blue ball. > > > > > > Do you imagine that religion is harmless? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > do you imagine anything is dangerous? > > > > to what or to whom? > > > > there is nothing to fear.. > > > > there is nothing to act fearless about.. > > > > there is no god (personal or otherwise). > > > > there is no such thing as wisdom. > > > > there is no need to make rapture of a common dirt ball in space. > > > > it's all imaginary. > > > > including this and including all 'explanations' of nothing. > > > > it doesn't move me pal. > > > > not the god, not the blue planet, not the sorry ass 'concern'. > > > > none of that bullshit matters. > > > > and it doesn't matter that it doesn't matter. > > > > unless and only.. > > > > 'you' think so and want to make a 'cause' of it. > > > > that's no different than the cause of allah. > > > > No God Is Great! > > > > and.. > > > > There is No God but No God. > > > > yeah that's so cool. > > > > get real. > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > I see a hungry man........I offer a few dollars. > > I see a woman dying........I hold her hand. > > I see a child being beaten.......I intrude. > > I see people floundering in delusion.........I offer insight. > > Nothing matters...........some things matter less than others. > > > > > toombaru bullshit. nothing from nothing is nothing. end of story. you want it to be the beginning. silly goose! ..b b.b. 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Guest guest Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > do you imagine anything is dangerous? > > > > > > to what or to whom? > > > > > > there is nothing to fear.. > > > > > > there is nothing to act fearless about.. > > > > > > there is no god (personal or otherwise). > > > > > > there is no such thing as wisdom. > > > > > > there is no need to make rapture of a common dirt ball in space. > > > > > > it's all imaginary. > > > > > > including this and including all 'explanations' of nothing. > > > > > > it doesn't move me pal. > > > > > > not the god, not the blue planet, not the sorry ass 'concern'. > > > > > > none of that bullshit matters. > > > > > > and it doesn't matter that it doesn't matter. > > > > > > unless and only.. > > > > > > 'you' think so and want to make a 'cause' of it. > > > > > > that's no different than the cause of allah. > > > > > > No God Is Great! > > > > > > and.. > > > > > > There is No God but No God. > > > > > > yeah that's so cool. > > > > > > get real. > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > > > > > > Get real? > > > > > > toombaru > > > read the addendum. > > you didn't did you. > > it came right after the thing your trying to be clever avbout. > > you're slow on the uptake. > > and to quick at the draw. > > slow down cowpoke. > > .b b.b. > I respond to your posts in sequence. Simple as that. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > do you imagine anything is dangerous? > > > > > > > > to what or to whom? > > > > > > > > there is nothing to fear.. > > > > > > > > there is nothing to act fearless about.. > > > > > > > > there is no god (personal or otherwise). > > > > > > > > there is no such thing as wisdom. > > > > > > > > there is no need to make rapture of a common dirt ball in space. > > > > > > > > it's all imaginary. > > > > > > > > including this and including all 'explanations' of nothing. > > > > > > > > it doesn't move me pal. > > > > > > > > not the god, not the blue planet, not the sorry ass 'concern'. > > > > > > > > none of that bullshit matters. > > > > > > > > and it doesn't matter that it doesn't matter. > > > > > > > > unless and only.. > > > > > > > > 'you' think so and want to make a 'cause' of it. > > > > > > > > that's no different than the cause of allah. > > > > > > > > No God Is Great! > > > > > > > > and.. > > > > > > > > There is No God but No God. > > > > > > > > yeah that's so cool. > > > > > > > > get real. > > > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Get real? > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > read the addendum. > > > > you didn't did you. > > > > it came right after the thing your trying to be clever avbout. > > > > you're slow on the uptake. > > > > and to quick at the draw. > > > > slow down cowpoke. > > > > .b b.b. > > > > I respond to your posts in sequence. > > Simple as that. > > > > toombaru why didn't you respond to the second part of the sequence? why did you skip that but respond to the one after? that's simple too. even more simple than the weak answer you give above. simply yours, ..b b.b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 > > > > > > I see a hungry man........I offer a few dollars. > > > > I see a woman dying........I hold her hand. > > > > I see a child being beaten.......I intrude. > > > > I see people floundering in delusion.........I offer insight. > > > > Nothing matters...........some things matter less than others. > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > bullshit. > > nothing from nothing is nothing. > > end of story. > > you want it to be the beginning. > > silly goose! > > .b b.b. > All I am saying is that the imaginary individual interests within the Magnus Machina compose an inter-related, inter-connected web in which one cannot isolate and consider the relative importance separate events. Especially since the one considering is not itself an isolated event. I see a hungry man and something is stimulated to offer money. I see a child being beaten....and the universe intervenes. I would imagine that compassion evolved simply because it benefits the gene pool. But to say the noting is going on is just plain silly. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > do you imagine anything is dangerous? > > > > > > > > > > to what or to whom? > > > > > > > > > > there is nothing to fear.. > > > > > > > > > > there is nothing to act fearless about.. > > > > > > > > > > there is no god (personal or otherwise). > > > > > > > > > > there is no such thing as wisdom. > > > > > > > > > > there is no need to make rapture of a common dirt ball in space. > > > > > > > > > > it's all imaginary. > > > > > > > > > > including this and including all 'explanations' of nothing. > > > > > > > > > > it doesn't move me pal. > > > > > > > > > > not the god, not the blue planet, not the sorry ass 'concern'. > > > > > > > > > > none of that bullshit matters. > > > > > > > > > > and it doesn't matter that it doesn't matter. > > > > > > > > > > unless and only.. > > > > > > > > > > 'you' think so and want to make a 'cause' of it. > > > > > > > > > > that's no different than the cause of allah. > > > > > > > > > > No God Is Great! > > > > > > > > > > and.. > > > > > > > > > > There is No God but No God. > > > > > > > > > > yeah that's so cool. > > > > > > > > > > get real. > > > > > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Get real? > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > read the addendum. > > > > > > you didn't did you. > > > > > > it came right after the thing your trying to be clever avbout. > > > > > > you're slow on the uptake. > > > > > > and to quick at the draw. > > > > > > slow down cowpoke. > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > > I respond to your posts in sequence. > > > > Simple as that. > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > why didn't you respond to the second part of the sequence? > > why did you skip that but respond to the one after? > > that's simple too. > > even more simple than the weak answer you give above. > > simply yours, > > .b b.b. > I would suggest that your compulsion to be right has your perspective screwed up. Do you really want to obsess about sequence? toombaru toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > I see a hungry man........I offer a few dollars. > > > > > > I see a woman dying........I hold her hand. > > > > > > I see a child being beaten.......I intrude. > > > > > > I see people floundering in delusion.........I offer insight. > > > > > > Nothing matters...........some things matter less than others. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > bullshit. > > > > nothing from nothing is nothing. > > > > end of story. > > > > you want it to be the beginning. > > > > silly goose! > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > All I am saying is that the imaginary individual interests within the > Magnus Machina compose an inter-related, inter-connected web in which > one cannot isolate and consider the relative importance separate events. > > Especially since the one considering is not itself an isolated event. > > I see a hungry man and something is stimulated to offer money. > > I see a child being beaten....and the universe intervenes. > > I would imagine that compassion evolved simply because it benefits the > gene pool. > > But to say the noting is going on is just plain silly. > > > > toombaru well you're making note of something or other. of course it's not possible for nothing to be going on. nothing can't go..or come..or do anything..nor be talked about. nothing is nothing and there's nothing that can be done about it. how is the gene pool any more real than anything else? that dog will not hunt. it's a useless mongrel that you pretend is important. it may feel fuzzy and warm.. or smart and scientific.. but it won't get you dinner..or anything else. chop chop. carry carry.. eat eat.. shit shit.. make babies. but don't try and make it significant or poetic. it's of no import. to whom or what could it be important? not a god that is not nor a gene that is nothing more... a gene is just a molecule's way of continuing and replicating.. for no reason at all. you should see what the strings think.. of the quarks that think.. of the atoms which think.. of the molecules that think.. of the genes that think.. of the creature that thinks.. that something compassionate is " going on " . you know what i think? doesn't matter. ..b b.b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > do you imagine anything is dangerous? > > > > > > > > > > > > to what or to whom? > > > > > > > > > > > > there is nothing to fear.. > > > > > > > > > > > > there is nothing to act fearless about.. > > > > > > > > > > > > there is no god (personal or otherwise). > > > > > > > > > > > > there is no such thing as wisdom. > > > > > > > > > > > > there is no need to make rapture of a common dirt ball in space. > > > > > > > > > > > > it's all imaginary. > > > > > > > > > > > > including this and including all 'explanations' of nothing. > > > > > > > > > > > > it doesn't move me pal. > > > > > > > > > > > > not the god, not the blue planet, not the sorry ass 'concern'. > > > > > > > > > > > > none of that bullshit matters. > > > > > > > > > > > > and it doesn't matter that it doesn't matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > unless and only.. > > > > > > > > > > > > 'you' think so and want to make a 'cause' of it. > > > > > > > > > > > > that's no different than the cause of allah. > > > > > > > > > > > > No God Is Great! > > > > > > > > > > > > and.. > > > > > > > > > > > > There is No God but No God. > > > > > > > > > > > > yeah that's so cool. > > > > > > > > > > > > get real. > > > > > > > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Get real? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > read the addendum. > > > > > > > > you didn't did you. > > > > > > > > it came right after the thing your trying to be clever avbout. > > > > > > > > you're slow on the uptake. > > > > > > > > and to quick at the draw. > > > > > > > > slow down cowpoke. > > > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > > > > > I respond to your posts in sequence. > > > > > > Simple as that. > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > why didn't you respond to the second part of the sequence? > > > > why did you skip that but respond to the one after? > > > > that's simple too. > > > > even more simple than the weak answer you give above. > > > > simply yours, > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > I would suggest that your compulsion to be right has your perspective > screwed up. > > > Do you really want to obsess about sequence? > > > > > toombaru sequence and it's importance was in your answer.. not my question. you said you answered in sequence. why did you obsess over that notion. i'm neither right nor wrong. neither are you. you are obsessive on projecting your fixations.. regarding right and wrong on 'others'. aren't you now? doesn't matter. it's not important. it's not wrong. it's not right. it's just the way you go about your business. who cares. ..b b.b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 > > sequence and it's importance was in your answer.. > > not my question. > > you said you answered in sequence. > > why did you obsess over that notion. > > i'm neither right nor wrong. > > neither are you. > > you are obsessive on projecting your fixations.. > > regarding right and wrong on 'others'. > > aren't you now? > > doesn't matter. > > it's not important. > > it's not wrong. > > it's not right. > > it's just the way you go about your business. > > who cares. > > .b b.b. > Well then..........I guess we wrapped that up. I'm off the kitchen to cook the hot Chinese chicken my wife loves so much. I wish you could taste it. :-) toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > > > > > sequence and it's importance was in your answer.. > > > > not my question. > > > > you said you answered in sequence. > > > > why did you obsess over that notion. > > > > i'm neither right nor wrong. > > > > neither are you. > > > > you are obsessive on projecting your fixations.. > > > > regarding right and wrong on 'others'. > > > > aren't you now? > > > > doesn't matter. > > > > it's not important. > > > > it's not wrong. > > > > it's not right. > > > > it's just the way you go about your business. > > > > who cares. > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > Well then..........I guess we wrapped that up. > > > I'm off the kitchen to cook the hot Chinese chicken my wife loves so much. > > > I wish you could taste it. :-) > > > > > toombaru mmmm..i can. hot chinese chicken is much better than cold american chicken. LOL! ..b b.b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 as a child i never knew what god is & what religion means; it has arisen from nowhere & is taking me to nowhere. is it an illusion or reality i don't know. the child in me died, from thoughtless i became thoughtful. in thoughtless state i knew not what is ignorance & what is knowledge. i aspire for that state. it alludes me because i cannot dissolve this world i created of my own for my own sake thru ignorance & knowledge. i has to die. i am unable to die i will never know the truth. i will conceptualize god, religion & philosophy conscious that i am the "enlightened one", "knower of the truth" or "inspired soul" in the thoughtful world that i created. -mahesh toombaru2006 <lastrainNisargadatta Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 4:21:59 AM Re: Finding God Nisargadatta, "roberibus111" <Roberibus111@ ...>wrote:>> Nisargadatta, "roberibus111" <Roberibus111@ >> wrote:> >> > Nisargadatta, "toombaru2006" <lastrain@> wrote:> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > "The neurobiological approach to an "attractor state" helps us along> > > nicely as we strive to disclose furhte the unconscious origin of the> > > human creature's inclination to "people" the world withspirits,and in> > > particular with a supernatural Parent God.> > > > > > Repeated states of activation at the critical early period of> > > development shape the structure of the neural circuits whichthen form> > > the functional basis for the enduring states of mind within the> > > individual.> > > > > > Accordingly, what transpires between the offspring and caregiver> > > during the early period comes gradually to serve as not merely one> > > neurobiological "state" among many others but the central, enduring> > > "attractor state" of our ongoing lives.> > > > > > The basic biological situation gives rise to the implicit,unconscious> > > level of perceptual, emotional "scheme" from which emanate ourdeepest> > > emotional longings and perceptual inclinations.> > > > > > How could it be otherwise?> > > > > > For many critical months and years our physical and mental survival> > > depends entirely on the caregiver; thus the affective intensity of> > > this "critical" early stage is colossal; we attach ourselves to our> > > provider with utterly spontaneous, unabated ardor; nothing is held> > > back; our needs for nourishment and care, for love, are "activated"> > > continuously, over and over again, thousands upon thousands oftimes,> > > to become rooted synaptically in our brains; our emotional "values"> > > are established in an indelible, permanent manner that seeks> > > fulfillment forever after along lines that affectively recall the> > > initial, primal interaction.> > > > > > In short, we internalize into our developing minds early on the> > > instinct-driven, affective "pattern" that will govern ourbehavior as> > > we relinquish the immediate familial unit and move into the wider> > > world of culture, including of course the culture's religious> dimension.> > > > > > The "truth" of the religious narrative with the Loving-Parent God at> > > the center is confirmed implicitly, unconsciously through a primed,> > > fully readied > > > "attractor state" that resides at the fountain of ourinterpersonally> > > sculpted, impersonally wired brains.> > > > > > We are not simply attracted to the religious narrative to whichwe are> > > eventually exposed; the system is completely dynamic: it is we who> > > also attract the narrative to ourselves, yanking it in,absorbing it,> > > mapping it onto the model, the scheme, upon which we've been relying> > > all along.> > > > > > The attractor state within us is as eager for confirmation ofits core> > > perception as those who offer the narrative to us are eager for our> > > acceptance of it and our entry into the flock.> > > > > > It is not only religion, needless to say, but a wide variety ofhuman> > > participations that are linked firmly to the basic biological> > > situation: our ongoing personal relationships at both the individual> > > and group level (spouce, family) our national loyalty and> > > identification with "motherland" and "fatherland" including the> > > "leader" of "chief"; our absorption in music, art, poetry,literature;> > > and of course our inclination to make gods out of other institutions> > > such as science or philosophy.> > > > > > However, because the spiritual and supernatural domain ofreligion is> > > imponderable, invisible, entirely unsupported by what we term> > > emperical criteria, because for billions of people everywhere mental> > > and emotional stablitiy depends significantly on religious ties, and> > > finally because religion must compete with other emergentsystems and> > > brain states that come into play as an individual develops overtime,> > > religion's humble, worldly task is to reinforce, to strengthen, to> > > deepen the participant' s original, brain based convictions through> > > steady, even continuous exposure to ritual and to the word fromearly> > > childhood onward.> > > > > > The neurons that fired together are wired together to create aprimal> > > attractor state during the early period must be regularlyactivated in> > > the proper devotional context to ensure the continuation of the> > > supernatural attachment that emerged on the initial exposure to the> > > official, sacred narrative.> > > > > > To put it another way, the worldly task of institutional religion is> > > to provide the flock with the inspiration to continue its mapping of> > > the primal, core experience of attachment to the parental figureonto> > > the orthodox version of the substitute Parent-God.> > > > > > Unless this happens, the flock and earthy shepherds are apt to> > disappear.> > > Accordingly. to employ a few examples in illustration, when we hear> > > the gospel choir on television singing. "Jesus came and found me/ and> > > put his arms around me." we detect the primal attractor state of> > > union, with the biological caregiver humming along quietlybeneath the> > > mapped-on surface expression of the core fantasy.> > > > > > > > > M.D. Faber> > > > > > "The Psychological Roots of Religious Belief"> > > > > > and....you believe him?> > > > LOL!> > > > .b b.b.> > > an amazing thing:> > people so obsessed with negating god..> > are more obsessed with the god idea> > than the so called 'religious'.> > it's like a fat ass always trying to deny that his ass is fat.> > he tells you to get "scientific" ..> > it's the pants that make his fat ass look fat.> > right'o sports.> > if there wasn't a silly need to address this 'god' thing..> > they simply would shut their mouths?> > why the hell should anyone..> > spend so much time..> > make so much effort..> > scribble scribble scribble so many f***ing times..> > that "they" don't need or believe..> > in what they don't believe in or need?> > sounds like a stupid 10 year old telling dad he's leaving home.> > fine.> > here's what you tell that transparently frightened child:> > "OK kid..get the f*** out and shut up...> > too much information punk...> > no one needs or wants to hear your false bravado.> > no one gives a shit if you stay or go..> > nobody cares if you believe in god or if you believe in nothing.> > or if you don't believe in either/or OR neither/nor. .. > > just get out of town and quit trying to act brave and bold..> > it's not impressive it's goddamn boring."> > > > if there was a god he wouldn't give a shit.> > i mean that's the essence of a god.> > if there is no god..> > what in the hell is the point..> > in trying to convince anyone that "you" don't buy it?> > so what?> > bully for you now eat your goddamn pablum and be still.> > LOL!> > .b b.b.>You didn't read it did you?It explains clearly the origin of the belief in a personal god.......a belief that leads to the devaluation of the present life andplaces all hope in an imaginary future in an imaginary heaven.......a delusional belief system that threatens to destroy thisbeautiful little blue ball.Do you imagine that religion is harmless?toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , Mahesh Kamat <mv.kamat wrote: > > as a child i never knew what god is & what religion means; it has arisen from nowhere & is taking me to nowhere. is it an illusion or reality i don't know. the child in me died, from thoughtless i became thoughtful. in thoughtless state i knew not what is ignorance & what is knowledge. i aspire for that state. it alludes me because i cannot dissolve this world i created of my own for my own sake thru ignorance & knowledge. i has to die. i am unable to die i will never know the truth. i will conceptualize god, religion & philosophy conscious that i am the " enlightened one " , " knower of the truth " or " inspired soul " in the thoughtful world that i created. > -mahesh > > > It is the sense of being a separate self that seeks freedom from its imaginary prison. When it gets a glimpse of its own struggle.......something unexpected happens. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , Mahesh Kamat <mv.kamat@> wrote: > > > > as a child i never knew what god is & what religion means; it has > arisen from nowhere & is taking me to nowhere. is it an illusion > or reality i don't know. the child in me died, from thoughtless i > became thoughtful. in thoughtless state i knew not what is ignorance & > what is knowledge. i aspire for that state. it alludes me because i > cannot dissolve this world i created of my own for my own sake thru > ignorance & knowledge. i has to die. i am unable to die i will never > know the truth. i will conceptualize god, religion & philosophy > conscious that i am the " enlightened one " , " knower of the truth " or > " inspired soul " in the thoughtful world that i created. > > -mahesh > > > > > > > > > > > It is the sense of being a separate self that seeks freedom from its > imaginary prison. > > When it gets a glimpse of its own struggle.......something unexpected > happens. > > > > > toombaru it stops glimpsing. coups d'oeil no longer necessary. ..b b.b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " The neurobiological approach to an " attractor state " helps us along > > > > nicely as we strive to disclose furhte the unconscious origin of the > > > > human creature's inclination to " people " the world with > spirits,and in > > > > particular with a supernatural Parent God. > > > > > > > > Repeated states of activation at the critical early period of > > > > development shape the structure of the neural circuits which > then form > > > > the functional basis for the enduring states of mind within the > > > > individual. > > > > > > > > Accordingly, what transpires between the offspring and caregiver > > > > during the early period comes gradually to serve as not merely one > > > > neurobiological " state " among many others but the central, enduring > > > > " attractor state " of our ongoing lives. > > > > > > > > The basic biological situation gives rise to the implicit, > unconscious > > > > level of perceptual, emotional " scheme " from which emanate our > deepest > > > > emotional longings and perceptual inclinations. > > > > > > > > How could it be otherwise? > > > > > > > > For many critical months and years our physical and mental survival > > > > depends entirely on the caregiver; thus the affective intensity of > > > > this " critical " early stage is colossal; we attach ourselves to our > > > > provider with utterly spontaneous, unabated ardor; nothing is held > > > > back; our needs for nourishment and care, for love, are " activated " > > > > continuously, over and over again, thousands upon thousands of > times, > > > > to become rooted synaptically in our brains; our emotional " values " > > > > are established in an indelible, permanent manner that seeks > > > > fulfillment forever after along lines that affectively recall the > > > > initial, primal interaction. > > > > > > > > In short, we internalize into our developing minds early on the > > > > instinct-driven, affective " pattern " that will govern our > behavior as > > > > we relinquish the immediate familial unit and move into the wider > > > > world of culture, including of course the culture's religious > > dimension. > > > > > > > > The " truth " of the religious narrative with the Loving-Parent God at > > > > the center is confirmed implicitly, unconsciously through a primed, > > > > fully readied > > > > " attractor state " that resides at the fountain of our > interpersonally > > > > sculpted, impersonally wired brains. > > > > > > > > We are not simply attracted to the religious narrative to which > we are > > > > eventually exposed; the system is completely dynamic: it is we who > > > > also attract the narrative to ourselves, yanking it in, > absorbing it, > > > > mapping it onto the model, the scheme, upon which we've been relying > > > > all along. > > > > > > > > The attractor state within us is as eager for confirmation of > its core > > > > perception as those who offer the narrative to us are eager for our > > > > acceptance of it and our entry into the flock. > > > > > > > > It is not only religion, needless to say, but a wide variety of > human > > > > participations that are linked firmly to the basic biological > > > > situation: our ongoing personal relationships at both the individual > > > > and group level (spouce, family) our national loyalty and > > > > identification with " motherland " and " fatherland " including the > > > > " leader " of " chief " ; our absorption in music, art, poetry, > literature; > > > > and of course our inclination to make gods out of other institutions > > > > such as science or philosophy. > > > > > > > > However, because the spiritual and supernatural domain of > religion is > > > > imponderable, invisible, entirely unsupported by what we term > > > > emperical criteria, because for billions of people everywhere mental > > > > and emotional stablitiy depends significantly on religious ties, and > > > > finally because religion must compete with other emergent > systems and > > > > brain states that come into play as an individual develops over > time, > > > > religion's humble, worldly task is to reinforce, to strengthen, to > > > > deepen the participant's original, brain based convictions through > > > > steady, even continuous exposure to ritual and to the word from > early > > > > childhood onward. > > > > > > > > The neurons that fired together are wired together to create a > primal > > > > attractor state during the early period must be regularly > activated in > > > > the proper devotional context to ensure the continuation of the > > > > supernatural attachment that emerged on the initial exposure to the > > > > official, sacred narrative. > > > > > > > > To put it another way, the worldly task of institutional religion is > > > > to provide the flock with the inspiration to continue its mapping of > > > > the primal, core experience of attachment to the parental figure > onto > > > > the orthodox version of the substitute Parent-God. > > > > > > > > Unless this happens, the flock and earthy shepherds are apt to > > > disappear. > > > > Accordingly. to employ a few examples in illustration, when we hear > > > > the gospel choir on television singing. " Jesus came and found me > / and > > > > put his arms around me. " we detect the primal attractor state of > > > > union, with the biological caregiver humming along quietly > beneath the > > > > mapped-on surface expression of the core fantasy. > > > > > > > > > > > > M.D. Faber > > > > > > > > " The Psychological Roots of Religious Belief " > > > > > > > > > and...you believe him? > > > > > > LOL! > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > an amazing thing: > > > > people so obsessed with negating god.. > > > > are more obsessed with the god idea > > > > than the so called 'religious'. > > > > it's like a fat ass always trying to deny that his ass is fat. > > > > he tells you to get " scientific " .. > > > > it's the pants that make his fat ass look fat. > > > > right'o sports. > > > > if there wasn't a silly need to address this 'god' thing.. > > > > they simply would shut their mouths? > > > > why the hell should anyone.. > > > > spend so much time.. > > > > make so much effort.. > > > > scribble scribble scribble so many f***ing times.. > > > > that " they " don't need or believe.. > > > > in what they don't believe in or need? > > > > sounds like a stupid 10 year old telling dad he's leaving home. > > > > fine. > > > > here's what you tell that transparently frightened child: > > > > " OK kid..get the f*** out and shut up... > > > > too much information punk... > > > > no one needs or wants to hear your false bravado. > > > > no one gives a shit if you stay or go.. > > > > nobody cares if you believe in god or if you believe in nothing. > > > > or if you don't believe in either/or OR neither/nor... > > > > just get out of town and quit trying to act brave and bold.. > > > > it's not impressive it's goddamn boring. " > > > > > > > > if there was a god he wouldn't give a shit. > > > > i mean that's the essence of a god. > > > > if there is no god.. > > > > what in the hell is the point.. > > > > in trying to convince anyone that " you " don't buy it? > > > > so what? > > > > bully for you now eat your goddamn pablum and be still. > > > > LOL! > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > You didn't read it did you? > > It explains clearly the origin of the belief in a personal god. > > ......a belief that leads to the devaluation of the present life and > places all hope in an imaginary future in an imaginary heaven. > > ......a delusional belief system that threatens to destroy this > beautiful little blue ball. > > Do you imagine that religion is harmless? > > > > > > toombaru > talking about religions.... analysing the religions....and results of religious beliefs.... is finding endless troubles.... happening since endless times.... wars.... conflicts... for nothing at all realy.... as a result of some emotional beings..... catched in/within/by their imaginary ego box.... experiencing some love here and there... on the path to freedom and peace... Such freedom and peace aren't of any outside & worldly issues... It's all about simple and free Being. Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 Nisargadatta , Mahesh Kamat <mv.kamat wrote: > > as a child i never knew what god is & what religion means; it has arisen from nowhere & is taking me to nowhere. is it an illusion or reality i don't know. the child in me died, from thoughtless i became thoughtful. in thoughtless state i knew not what is ignorance & what is knowledge. i aspire for that state. it alludes me because i cannot dissolve this world i created of my own for my own sake thru ignorance & knowledge. i has to die. i am unable to die i will never know the truth. i will conceptualize god, religion & philosophy conscious that i am the " enlightened one " , " knower of the truth " or " inspired soul " in the thoughtful world that i created. > -mahesh > > imaginary enlightened mahesh, nobody created this your fiction of " mahesh world " .... " mahesh " , as ever having been a fiction....from the beginning on..... will still never get real.... even if " mahesh " try hard.... this your imaginary " mahesh " never was....never will be.... doesn't matter of death or birth..... Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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