Guest guest Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 - Marc Nisargadatta Tuesday, February 23, 2010 1:12 PM Re: Re: i am that - Marc Nisargadatta Tuesday, February 23, 2010 12:07 PM Re: Re: i am that Marc Nisargadatta Tuesday, February 23, 2010 11:34 AM Re: i am that " I love the way the man talks. Thanks for all of the quotes AC. What I do not get - and so far never heard any guru, any one - explain in a way which is satisfactory, is: why are we on this planet earth anyway? It is so painful so why are we here? What are we doing? ............. ......... ... " " who " has ever been " here " ....?. .. somebody is here? " Lene " is here?... why is " Lene " here? because " Lene " want to imagine to be " here " .... Marc She knows that marc. We have been talking about it all along. But she also sees that there are other human beings around this one here (there). So she is asking: what for? -geo- if she knew this already..... .good .... " there are other human beings around this one here...what for? " .... because she already forgot that " Lene " want them to be " there " .... Marc No. It was not " lene " . -geo- " who " else.....could appear to/from/because of " Lene " ....? Marc Look around. Are there not dogs, pigs, wolves.....and...man around you? Although we know that these organisms are just empty patterns of the one.....there are man. -geo- avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 100218-1, 18/02/2010 Tested on: 23/2/2010 15:34:43 avast! - copyright © 1988-2010 ALWIL Software. --- avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 100218-1, 18/02/2010 Tested on: 23/2/2010 15:42:28 avast! - copyright © 1988-2010 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 Nisargadatta , " Lene " <lschwabe wrote: > > I love the way the man talks. Thanks for all of the quotes AC. > > What I do not get - and so far never heard any guru, any one - > explain in a way which is satisfactory, is: why are we on this > planet earth anyway? It is so painful so why are we here? What > are we doing? > > All gurus are full of words - of good/ bad advice as to how to > live " properly " , " the right way " on this earth and be released > from " thraldom " but noone explain why we are here in the first > place. > > If paradise - nirvana - is so sweet, what do we need the earth > for - earthlife? > > Fun? Make mistakes? Go to paradise. Return to earth to correct > the mistakes we made for fun? That looks like punishment to me. > > But it makes no snese, let alone sense (lol) whatsoever. It is > to suffer deliberately -- me loves a good spanking, halleluja! > > See ya people, this is the greatest of mysteries and I have so > far not heard any body, any one - let alone no one (that would > be Dansan or Bobskij explain the mystery to my satisfaction. Lene - As long as there is someone there wanting an explanation - no explanation will ever be truly adequate. And this includes explanations about how " no one is really there. " Commentary like that just becomes another kind of belief system. So, truly, it comes down to being aware without assumptions. Assuming a self is there that would want and benefit from an explanation of " why go through all of this " ... once assumed, all kinds of repercussions. And if assuming " no one is here " ... that also leads to all kinds of repercussions. So, is it possible not to hold to any assumption? Hmmmmm? > I have explained it myself of course. We are here for fun. The > world, this planet, other planets, everything, is our creation, > is us; we are that creation and we have initiated it ourselves, > the heavens and the hells - the whole chitty bang bang. D: Nah, there's plenty that isn't " fun. " And if you've ever met someone trying to pretend that all they ever do is " have fun " ... well it sure gets obnoxious after a while. > But there is plenty of this kind of talking (copied from below): > > " The entire purpose of a clean and well-ordered life is to liberate > man from the thraldom of chaos and the burden of sorrow. " > > Excuse me, Sir? D: I agree. Absurd. > Listen up folks. Why initiate a game at all whose only purpose > is to be liberated from it???? D: So someone exists and has the power to initiate a game? Are you sure? > Good lord. > > Play the game for pete's sake. D: One is played. The experienced moments of life are past. It is already played out and played through - one's individual sense of consciousness (as an illusion) included in the playing. > The game of life was and is constantly initiated by us thought- > creatures. > > We are the game; we made it, we play it, we are it, we love it, > we hate it. D: Yes, one is the game being played out and played through, choicelessly - that is all there is, experientially. And that is already over - just not " known " by the " individualized consciousness " that it is over. > Cheerio > > -Your stand in guru now that Bob's away on his sleigh D: I suppose the list must have a guru, since it's dedicated to a guru. Guru: bringer of light from darkness, or some such. And as there actually is only spontaneous suchness: gurus are obsolete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 - Hur Guler Nisargadatta Tuesday, February 23, 2010 2:36 PM Re: i am that Nisargadatta , " Lene " <lschwabe wrote: > > > What I do not get - and so far never heard any guru, any one - > explain in a way which is satisfactory, is: why are we on this > planet earth anyway? It is so painful so why are we here? What > are we doing? > Whether the answer comes from the personal dual or the impersonal nondual angle, I don't think we just want to know why we are here but our motivation is how we can continue to exist and achieve some sort of immortality. All spiritual teachings offer a promise of immortality. Nondual teachings are more subltle and yet they serve the same purpose...it's still something to hold on to for us. -hur-ji- I am not looking for immortality. I realized I existed - as a kid and that made me wonder: how come? That was the drive. You are projecting your own aims into others. -geo- avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 100218-1, 18/02/2010 Tested on: 23/2/2010 15:34:46 avast! - copyright © 1988-2010 ALWIL Software. --- avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 100218-1, 18/02/2010 Tested on: 23/2/2010 15:48:15 avast! - copyright © 1988-2010 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > > D: One is played. The experienced moments of life are past. > It is already played out and played through - one's individual > sense of consciousness (as an illusion) included in the playing. > > > The game of life was and is constantly initiated by us thought- > > creatures. > > > > We are the game; we made it, we play it, we are it, we love it, > > we hate it. > > D: Yes, one is the game being played out and played through, > choicelessly - that is all there is, experientially. > > And that is already over - just not " known " by > the " individualized > consciousness " that it is over. Interesting how that 'works'. It was over before it ever began. Or, it's over as it begins. Or... hmmm ;-). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > Lene: why are we on this planet earth anyway? > > > > geo: When I read Gurdjieffa long time ago it became obvious to me - I bought the fish. > > Mankind is on earth for two absolutely different reasons. > > > > 1- To fulfill the needs - on a cosmic level - of the absolute in order to sustain the creation and maintainence of the universe. > > In this sense man, or organic life on earth as a whole, are needed in order to keep the ray of creation working. But for this > > what is needed is a mankind just like it is: mechanical, conditioned, with a sense of herd consciousness. It is as if the earth > > needed the wars and collective conflicts to fulfill some of its needs. To this there is nothing " we " must do - just remain ignorant > > and sleeping as we are. that is what is needed in a cosmic scale. > > > > 2- For a few there is the opportunity to change. That is what we are discussing in these forums (not entering in that now). > > This change is a turn inward. A " new " movement in its nature. This new movement is only attainable through the realization of > > non-separation, of " existing " . It is not meant to the majority for that would disturb the other needs of the universe (#1) - but for some > > it is possible and necessary for the universe.... in this case not the same reasons as in #1. > > > > This can be read in Ouspensky's (G's student) book called - In Search Of The Miraculous. > > > > NOTE: Those are very quick and not very carefully chosen words up there. > > -geo- > > Geo - > > You honestly believe that? > > Wow. > > (Not to mention, it contradicts the " no inner/no outer " you spoke of just a little while ago. Now, it is cosmic levels and a ray of creation that must be kept working, not to mention getting to be selected to be one of the " chosen few, " eh? > > Very special, no? > > Quite a mythology you bought into. > > - D - > You honestly believe there's a Geo-entity there, Daniel-san, believing something? Do I honestly believe there's a Danielsan-entity-there, Tim-san, believing in a Geo-entity there? Naah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 - dan330033 Nisargadatta Tuesday, February 23, 2010 3:48 PM Re: i am that Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > Lene: why are we on this planet earth anyway? > > geo: When I read Gurdjieffa long time ago it became obvious to me - I > bought the fish. > Mankind is on earth for two absolutely different reasons. > > 1- To fulfill the needs - on a cosmic level - of the absolute in order to > sustain the creation and maintainence of the universe. > In this sense man, or organic life on earth as a whole, are needed in > order to keep the ray of creation working. But for this > what is needed is a mankind just like it is: mechanical, conditioned, with > a sense of herd consciousness. It is as if the earth > needed the wars and collective conflicts to fulfill some of its needs. To > this there is nothing " we " must do - just remain ignorant > and sleeping as we are. that is what is needed in a cosmic scale. > > 2- For a few there is the opportunity to change. That is what we are > discussing in these forums (not entering in that now). > This change is a turn inward. A " new " movement in its nature. This new > movement is only attainable through the realization of > non-separation, of " existing " . It is not meant to the majority for that > would disturb the other needs of the universe (#1) - but for some > it is possible and necessary for the universe.... in this case not the > same reasons as in #1. > > This can be read in Ouspensky's (G's student) book called - In Search Of > The Miraculous. > > NOTE: Those are very quick and not very carefully chosen words up there. > -geo- Geo - You honestly believe that? Wow. (Not to mention, it contradicts the " no inner/no outer " you spoke of just a little while ago. Now, it is cosmic levels and a ray of creation that must be kept working, not to mention getting to be selected to be one of the " chosen few, " eh? Very special, no? Quite a mythology you bought into. - D - Whom are you adressing? -geo- avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 100218-1, 18/02/2010 Tested on: 23/2/2010 15:57:39 avast! - copyright © 1988-2010 ALWIL Software. --- avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 100218-1, 18/02/2010 Tested on: 23/2/2010 15:59:43 avast! - copyright © 1988-2010 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Hur Guler " <hurg@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Lene " <lschwabe@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > What I do not get - and so far never heard any guru, any one - > > > explain in a way which is satisfactory, is: why are we on this > > > planet earth anyway? It is so painful so why are we here? What > > > are we doing? > > > > > > > Whether the answer comes from the personal dual or the impersonal nondual angle, I don't think we just want to know why we are here but our motivation is how we can continue to exist and achieve some sort of immortality. All spiritual teachings offer a promise of immortality. Nondual teachings are more subltle and yet they serve the same purpose...it's still something to hold on to for us. > > True. > > And the teaching " there is no teaching. " > > And the teaching " there is no one to be taught. " > > And with no holding on -- > > There's no one to tell it to. > > But, but, but ... Human beings sure like to look at each other's " but's " ;-). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > Marc > Nisargadatta > Tuesday, February 23, 2010 1:12 PM > Re: Re: i am that > > > > - > Marc > Nisargadatta > Tuesday, February 23, 2010 12:07 PM > Re: Re: i am that > > Marc > Nisargadatta > Tuesday, February 23, 2010 11:34 AM > Re: i am that > > " I love the way the man talks. Thanks for all of the quotes AC. > > What I do not get - and so far never heard any guru, any one - > explain in a way which is satisfactory, is: why are we on this > planet earth anyway? It is so painful so why are we here? What > are we doing? > ............ ......... ... " > > " who " has ever been " here " ....?. .. > > somebody is here? > > " Lene " is here?... > > why is " Lene " here? > > because " Lene " want to imagine to be " here " > > ... > > Marc > > She knows that marc. We have been talking about it all along. But she also > sees > that there are other human beings around this one here (there). So she is > asking: > what for? > -geo- > > if she knew this already..... .good > > ... > > " there are other human beings around this one here...what for? " .... > > because she already forgot that " Lene " want them to be " there " > > ... > > Marc > > No. It was not " lene " . > -geo- > > " who " else.....could appear to/from/because of " Lene " ....? > > Marc > > Look around. Are there not dogs, pigs, wolves.....and...man around you? > Although we know that these organisms are just empty patterns of the > one.....there > are man. > -geo- You are asking someone out there to agree with you? And where are these dogs, pigs, wolves, and ... man? Are they existing things out there, separate from the observer of them? You say " we " know that they are empty patterns of the one. Who is this " we " who knows this? And you say " even though " we know this ... " there are man. " Well, is it empty patterns or not? Is there something out there, or not? I'm not really asking you to make up your mind. It may sound like that, but no, it's not important to me that you make up your mind what you are saying. - Dan - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 - dan330033 Nisargadatta Tuesday, February 23, 2010 3:56 PM Re: i am that Nisargadatta , " Hur Guler " <hurg wrote: > > > Nisargadatta , " Lene " <lschwabe@> wrote: > > > > > > What I do not get - and so far never heard any guru, any one - > > explain in a way which is satisfactory, is: why are we on this > > planet earth anyway? It is so painful so why are we here? What > > are we doing? > > > > Whether the answer comes from the personal dual or the impersonal nondual > angle, I don't think we just want to know why we are here but our > motivation is how we can continue to exist and achieve some sort of > immortality. All spiritual teachings offer a promise of immortality. > Nondual teachings are more subltle and yet they serve the same > purpose...it's still something to hold on to for us. True. -d- True? Is it how it is for you? Looking for immortality? Even " from the impersonal nondual angle " as he said? Not here... -geo- --- avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 100218-1, 18/02/2010 Tested on: 23/2/2010 16:13:17 avast! - copyright © 1988-2010 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > dan330033 > Nisargadatta > Tuesday, February 23, 2010 3:48 PM > Re: i am that > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > Lene: why are we on this planet earth anyway? > > > > geo: When I read Gurdjieffa long time ago it became obvious to me - I > > bought the fish. > > Mankind is on earth for two absolutely different reasons. > > > > 1- To fulfill the needs - on a cosmic level - of the absolute in order to > > sustain the creation and maintainence of the universe. > > In this sense man, or organic life on earth as a whole, are needed in > > order to keep the ray of creation working. But for this > > what is needed is a mankind just like it is: mechanical, conditioned, with > > a sense of herd consciousness. It is as if the earth > > needed the wars and collective conflicts to fulfill some of its needs. To > > this there is nothing " we " must do - just remain ignorant > > and sleeping as we are. that is what is needed in a cosmic scale. > > > > 2- For a few there is the opportunity to change. That is what we are > > discussing in these forums (not entering in that now). > > This change is a turn inward. A " new " movement in its nature. This new > > movement is only attainable through the realization of > > non-separation, of " existing " . It is not meant to the majority for that > > would disturb the other needs of the universe (#1) - but for some > > it is possible and necessary for the universe.... in this case not the > > same reasons as in #1. > > > > This can be read in Ouspensky's (G's student) book called - In Search Of > > The Miraculous. > > > > NOTE: Those are very quick and not very carefully chosen words up there. > > -geo- > > Geo - > > You honestly believe that? > > Wow. > > (Not to mention, it contradicts the " no inner/no outer " you spoke of just a > little while ago. Now, it is cosmic levels and a ray of creation that must > be kept working, not to mention getting to be selected to be one of the > " chosen few, " eh? > > Very special, no? > > Quite a mythology you bought into. > > - D - > > Whom are you adressing? > -geo- Is that a requirement - that there be someone being addressed? - D - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > Lene: why are we on this planet earth anyway? > > > > > > geo: When I read Gurdjieffa long time ago it became obvious to me - I bought the fish. > > > Mankind is on earth for two absolutely different reasons. > > > > > > 1- To fulfill the needs - on a cosmic level - of the absolute in order to sustain the creation and maintainence of the universe. > > > In this sense man, or organic life on earth as a whole, are needed in order to keep the ray of creation working. But for this > > > what is needed is a mankind just like it is: mechanical, conditioned, with a sense of herd consciousness. It is as if the earth > > > needed the wars and collective conflicts to fulfill some of its needs. To this there is nothing " we " must do - just remain ignorant > > > and sleeping as we are. that is what is needed in a cosmic scale. > > > > > > 2- For a few there is the opportunity to change. That is what we are discussing in these forums (not entering in that now). > > > This change is a turn inward. A " new " movement in its nature. This new movement is only attainable through the realization of > > > non-separation, of " existing " . It is not meant to the majority for that would disturb the other needs of the universe (#1) - but for some > > > it is possible and necessary for the universe.... in this case not the same reasons as in #1. > > > > > > This can be read in Ouspensky's (G's student) book called - In Search Of The Miraculous. > > > > > > NOTE: Those are very quick and not very carefully chosen words up there. > > > -geo- > > > > Geo - > > > > You honestly believe that? > > > > Wow. > > > > (Not to mention, it contradicts the " no inner/no outer " you spoke of just a little while ago. Now, it is cosmic levels and a ray of creation that must be kept working, not to mention getting to be selected to be one of the " chosen few, " eh? > > > > Very special, no? > > > > Quite a mythology you bought into. > > > > - D - > > > > You honestly believe there's a Geo-entity there, Daniel-san, believing something? > > Do I honestly believe there's a Danielsan-entity-there, Tim-san, believing in a Geo-entity there? > > Naah. And with no operation of " belief " ... the conversation continues ... - D - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > dan330033 > Nisargadatta > Tuesday, February 23, 2010 3:56 PM > Re: i am that > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Hur Guler " <hurg@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Lene " <lschwabe@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > What I do not get - and so far never heard any guru, any one - > > > explain in a way which is satisfactory, is: why are we on this > > > planet earth anyway? It is so painful so why are we here? What > > > are we doing? > > > > > > > Whether the answer comes from the personal dual or the impersonal nondual > > angle, I don't think we just want to know why we are here but our > > motivation is how we can continue to exist and achieve some sort of > > immortality. All spiritual teachings offer a promise of immortality. > > Nondual teachings are more subltle and yet they serve the same > > purpose...it's still something to hold on to for us. > > True. > -d- > > True? Is it how it is for you? Looking for immortality? Even " from the > impersonal nondual angle " as he said? > Not here... > -geo- What is true is that holding on, is let go. - D - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 Nisargadatta , "Hur Guler" <hurg wrote:>> > Nisargadatta , "Lene" lschwabe@ wrote:> >> > > > What I do not get - and so far never heard any guru, any one -> > explain in a way which is satisfactory, is: why are we on this> > planet earth anyway? It is so painful so why are we here? What> > are we doing?> > > > Whether the answer comes from the personal dual or the impersonal nondual angle, I don't think we just want to know why we are here but our motivation is how we can continue to exist and achieve some sort of immortality. All spiritual teachings offer a promise of immortality. Nondual teachings are more subltle and yet they serve the same purpose...it's still something to hold on to for us.> Considering that so many people are suicidal. So many commit and so many attempt or contempt suicide. So many use drugs and alcohol to forget their 'existence' and so many try to bury it under the noise of parties etc and so many are dependent on anti-depressants, I am not sure if everyone is really wishing for 'immortality'. Many "gurus" say that everyone is looking for happiness or freedom from suffering. They further say that the true, lasting peace and happiness is to be only found within and not in external objects. This reason behind spiritual inquiry I think might be truer - to find the root of suffering.ac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 Nisargadatta , " ac " <adithya_comming wrote: > > > Nisargadatta , " Hur Guler " <hurg@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Lene " lschwabe@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > What I do not get - and so far never heard any guru, any one - > > > explain in a way which is satisfactory, is: why are we on this > > > planet earth anyway? It is so painful so why are we here? What > > > are we doing? > > > > > > > Whether the answer comes from the personal dual or the impersonal > nondual angle, I don't think we just want to know why we are here but > our motivation is how we can continue to exist and achieve some sort of > immortality. All spiritual teachings offer a promise of immortality. > Nondual teachings are more subltle and yet they serve the same > purpose...it's still something to hold on to for us. > > > > Considering that so many people are suicidal. So many commit and so many > attempt or contempt suicide. So many use drugs and alcohol to forget > their 'existence' and so many try to bury it under the noise of parties > etc and so many are dependent on anti-depressants, I am not sure if > everyone is really wishing for 'immortality'. > Many " gurus " say that everyone is looking for happiness or freedom from > suffering. They further say that the true, lasting peace and happiness > is to be only found within and not in external objects. This reason > behind spiritual inquiry I think might be truer - to find the root of > suffering. > ac There's not very far to look, A C. It's not out there, and it's not someone else's. - D - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > What is true is that holding on, is let go. > > - D - > So is letting go. " But, but, but... " LOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 Nisargadatta , "dan330033" <dan330033 wrote:>> > > Nisargadatta , "ac" adithya_comming@ wrote:> >> > > > Nisargadatta , "Hur Guler" <hurg@> wrote:> > >> > >> > > Nisargadatta , "Lene" lschwabe@ wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > What I do not get - and so far never heard any guru, any one -> > > > explain in a way which is satisfactory, is: why are we on this> > > > planet earth anyway? It is so painful so why are we here? What> > > > are we doing?> > > >> > >> > > Whether the answer comes from the personal dual or the impersonal> > nondual angle, I don't think we just want to know why we are here but> > our motivation is how we can continue to exist and achieve some sort of> > immortality. All spiritual teachings offer a promise of immortality.> > Nondual teachings are more subltle and yet they serve the same> > purpose...it's still something to hold on to for us.> > >> > > > Considering that so many people are suicidal. So many commit and so many> > attempt or contempt suicide. So many use drugs and alcohol to forget> > their 'existence' and so many try to bury it under the noise of parties> > etc and so many are dependent on anti-depressants, I am not sure if> > everyone is really wishing for 'immortality'.> > Many "gurus" say that everyone is looking for happiness or freedom from> > suffering. They further say that the true, lasting peace and happiness> > is to be only found within and not in external objects. This reason> > behind spiritual inquiry I think might be truer - to find the root of> > suffering.> > ac> > > There's not very far to look, A C.> > It's not out there, and it's not someone else's.> > - D - Yes, this is what many "gurus" have said too.ac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 Nisargadatta , " ac " <adithya_comming wrote: > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " ac " adithya_comming@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Hur Guler " <hurg@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Lene " lschwabe@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What I do not get - and so far never heard any guru, any one - > > > > > explain in a way which is satisfactory, is: why are we on this > > > > > planet earth anyway? It is so painful so why are we here? What > > > > > are we doing? > > > > > > > > > > > > > Whether the answer comes from the personal dual or the impersonal > > > nondual angle, I don't think we just want to know why we are here > but > > > our motivation is how we can continue to exist and achieve some sort > of > > > immortality. All spiritual teachings offer a promise of immortality. > > > Nondual teachings are more subltle and yet they serve the same > > > purpose...it's still something to hold on to for us. > > > > > > > > > > Considering that so many people are suicidal. So many commit and so > many > > > attempt or contempt suicide. So many use drugs and alcohol to forget > > > their 'existence' and so many try to bury it under the noise of > parties > > > etc and so many are dependent on anti-depressants, I am not sure if > > > everyone is really wishing for 'immortality'. > > > Many " gurus " say that everyone is looking for happiness or freedom > from > > > suffering. They further say that the true, lasting peace and > happiness > > > is to be only found within and not in external objects. This reason > > > behind spiritual inquiry I think might be truer - to find the root > of > > > suffering. > > > ac > > > > > > There's not very far to look, A C. > > > > It's not out there, and it's not someone else's. > > > > - D - > > > Yes, this is what many " gurus " have said too. > ac > 'Taint in the sayin', and tain't in the listenin', it's all in the realizin'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 Nisargadatta , "Tim G." <fewtch wrote:>> Nisargadatta , "ac" adithya_comming@ wrote:> >> > > > Nisargadatta , "dan330033" <dan330033@> wrote:> > >> > >> > >> > > Nisargadatta , "ac" adithya_comming@ wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > Nisargadatta , "Hur Guler" <hurg@> wrote:> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Nisargadatta , "Lene" lschwabe@ wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > What I do not get - and so far never heard any guru, any one -> > > > > > explain in a way which is satisfactory, is: why are we on this> > > > > > planet earth anyway? It is so painful so why are we here? What> > > > > > are we doing?> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Whether the answer comes from the personal dual or the impersonal> > > > nondual angle, I don't think we just want to know why we are here> > but> > > > our motivation is how we can continue to exist and achieve some sort> > of> > > > immortality. All spiritual teachings offer a promise of immortality.> > > > Nondual teachings are more subltle and yet they serve the same> > > > purpose...it's still something to hold on to for us.> > > > >> > > >> > > > Considering that so many people are suicidal. So many commit and so> > many> > > > attempt or contempt suicide. So many use drugs and alcohol to forget> > > > their 'existence' and so many try to bury it under the noise of> > parties> > > > etc and so many are dependent on anti-depressants, I am not sure if> > > > everyone is really wishing for 'immortality'.> > > > Many "gurus" say that everyone is looking for happiness or freedom> > from> > > > suffering. They further say that the true, lasting peace and> > happiness> > > > is to be only found within and not in external objects. This reason> > > > behind spiritual inquiry I think might be truer - to find the root> > of> > > > suffering.> > > > ac> > >> > >> > > There's not very far to look, A C.> > >> > > It's not out there, and it's not someone else's.> > >> > > - D -> > > > > > Yes, this is what many "gurus" have said too.> > ac> >> > 'Taint in the sayin', and tain't in the listenin', it's all in the realizin'.> Do you realize that, Tim?ac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > Tim G. > Nisargadatta > Tuesday, February 23, 2010 3:56 PM > Re: i am that > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > Lene: why are we on this planet earth anyway? > > > > > > geo: When I read Gurdjieffa long time ago it became obvious to me - I > > > bought the fish. > > > Mankind is on earth for two absolutely different reasons. > > > > > > 1- To fulfill the needs - on a cosmic level - of the absolute in order > > > to sustain the creation and maintainence of the universe. > > > In this sense man, or organic life on earth as a whole, are needed in > > > order to keep the ray of creation working. But for this > > > what is needed is a mankind just like it is: mechanical, conditioned, > > > with a sense of herd consciousness. It is as if the earth > > > needed the wars and collective conflicts to fulfill some of its needs. > > > To this there is nothing " we " must do - just remain ignorant > > > and sleeping as we are. that is what is needed in a cosmic scale. > > > > > > 2- For a few there is the opportunity to change. That is what we are > > > discussing in these forums (not entering in that now). > > > This change is a turn inward. A " new " movement in its nature. This new > > > movement is only attainable through the realization of > > > non-separation, of " existing " . It is not meant to the majority for that > > > would disturb the other needs of the universe (#1) - but for some > > > it is possible and necessary for the universe.... in this case not the > > > same reasons as in #1. > > > > > > This can be read in Ouspensky's (G's student) book called - In Search Of > > > The Miraculous. > > > > > > NOTE: Those are very quick and not very carefully chosen words up there. > > > -geo- > > > > Geo - > > > > You honestly believe that? > > > > Wow. > > > > (Not to mention, it contradicts the " no inner/no outer " you spoke of just > > a little while ago. Now, it is cosmic levels and a ray of creation that > > must be kept working, not to mention getting to be selected to be one of > > the " chosen few, " eh? > > > > Very special, no? > > > > Quite a mythology you bought into. > > > > - D - > > > > You honestly believe there's a Geo-entity there, Daniel-san, believing > something? > > Do I honestly believe there's a Danielsan-entity-there, Tim-san, believing > in a Geo-entity there? > > Naah. > -tim- > > I was going to say something very similar. The old pendulum trap. Swing to > the side that makes you > apparently look nicer and handsomer in the picture. LOL > -geo- Indeed... And " where " is this picture always " located " ... ;-). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 Nisargadatta , " ac " <adithya_comming wrote: > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " ac " adithya_comming@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " ac " adithya_comming@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Hur Guler " <hurg@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Lene " lschwabe@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What I do not get - and so far never heard any guru, any one > - > > > > > > > explain in a way which is satisfactory, is: why are we on > this > > > > > > > planet earth anyway? It is so painful so why are we here? > What > > > > > > > are we doing? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Whether the answer comes from the personal dual or the > impersonal > > > > > nondual angle, I don't think we just want to know why we are > here > > > but > > > > > our motivation is how we can continue to exist and achieve some > sort > > > of > > > > > immortality. All spiritual teachings offer a promise of > immortality. > > > > > Nondual teachings are more subltle and yet they serve the same > > > > > purpose...it's still something to hold on to for us. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Considering that so many people are suicidal. So many commit and > so > > > many > > > > > attempt or contempt suicide. So many use drugs and alcohol to > forget > > > > > their 'existence' and so many try to bury it under the noise of > > > parties > > > > > etc and so many are dependent on anti-depressants, I am not sure > if > > > > > everyone is really wishing for 'immortality'. > > > > > Many " gurus " say that everyone is looking for happiness or > freedom > > > from > > > > > suffering. They further say that the true, lasting peace and > > > happiness > > > > > is to be only found within and not in external objects. This > reason > > > > > behind spiritual inquiry I think might be truer - to find the > root > > > of > > > > > suffering. > > > > > ac > > > > > > > > > > > > There's not very far to look, A C. > > > > > > > > It's not out there, and it's not someone else's. > > > > > > > > - D - > > > > > > > > > Yes, this is what many " gurus " have said too. > > > ac > > > > > > > 'Taint in the sayin', and tain't in the listenin', it's all in the > realizin'. > > > > Do you realize that, Tim? > ac Does it matter to the reader? If so, why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " ac " <adithya_comming@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " ac " adithya_comming@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " ac " adithya_comming@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Hur Guler " <hurg@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Lene " lschwabe@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What I do not get - and so far never heard any guru, any one > > - > > > > > > > > explain in a way which is satisfactory, is: why are we on > > this > > > > > > > > planet earth anyway? It is so painful so why are we here? > > What > > > > > > > > are we doing? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Whether the answer comes from the personal dual or the > > impersonal > > > > > > nondual angle, I don't think we just want to know why we are > > here > > > > but > > > > > > our motivation is how we can continue to exist and achieve some > > sort > > > > of > > > > > > immortality. All spiritual teachings offer a promise of > > immortality. > > > > > > Nondual teachings are more subltle and yet they serve the same > > > > > > purpose...it's still something to hold on to for us. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Considering that so many people are suicidal. So many commit and > > so > > > > many > > > > > > attempt or contempt suicide. So many use drugs and alcohol to > > forget > > > > > > their 'existence' and so many try to bury it under the noise of > > > > parties > > > > > > etc and so many are dependent on anti-depressants, I am not sure > > if > > > > > > everyone is really wishing for 'immortality'. > > > > > > Many " gurus " say that everyone is looking for happiness or > > freedom > > > > from > > > > > > suffering. They further say that the true, lasting peace and > > > > happiness > > > > > > is to be only found within and not in external objects. This > > reason > > > > > > behind spiritual inquiry I think might be truer - to find the > > root > > > > of > > > > > > suffering. > > > > > > ac > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There's not very far to look, A C. > > > > > > > > > > It's not out there, and it's not someone else's. > > > > > > > > > > - D - > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, this is what many " gurus " have said too. > > > > ac > > > > > > > > > > 'Taint in the sayin', and tain't in the listenin', it's all in the > > realizin'. > > > > > > > Do you realize that, Tim? > > ac > > Does it matter to the reader? > > If so, why? > You are " the reader " . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > Hur Guler > Nisargadatta > Tuesday, February 23, 2010 2:36 PM > Re: i am that > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Lene " <lschwabe@> wrote: > > > > > > What I do not get - and so far never heard any guru, any one - > > explain in a way which is satisfactory, is: why are we on this > > planet earth anyway? It is so painful so why are we here? What > > are we doing? > > > > Whether the answer comes from the personal dual or the impersonal nondual > angle, I don't think we just want to know why we are here but our motivation > is how we can continue to exist and achieve some sort of immortality. All > spiritual teachings offer a promise of immortality. Nondual teachings are > more subltle and yet they serve the same purpose...it's still something to > hold on to for us. > -hur-ji- > > I am not looking for immortality. I realized I existed - as a kid and that > made me wonder: how come? > That was the drive. You are projecting your own aims into others. > -geo- > it's true that i'm making an observation on others...just a few billion or so who want that ticket for the " all inclusive resort in the sky " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 Nisargadatta , " ac " <adithya_comming wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " ac " <adithya_comming@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " ac " adithya_comming@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " ac " adithya_comming@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Hur Guler " <hurg@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Lene " lschwabe@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What I do not get - and so far never heard any guru, any one > > > - > > > > > > > > > explain in a way which is satisfactory, is: why are we on > > > this > > > > > > > > > planet earth anyway? It is so painful so why are we here? > > > What > > > > > > > > > are we doing? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Whether the answer comes from the personal dual or the > > > impersonal > > > > > > > nondual angle, I don't think we just want to know why we are > > > here > > > > > but > > > > > > > our motivation is how we can continue to exist and achieve some > > > sort > > > > > of > > > > > > > immortality. All spiritual teachings offer a promise of > > > immortality. > > > > > > > Nondual teachings are more subltle and yet they serve the same > > > > > > > purpose...it's still something to hold on to for us. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Considering that so many people are suicidal. So many commit and > > > so > > > > > many > > > > > > > attempt or contempt suicide. So many use drugs and alcohol to > > > forget > > > > > > > their 'existence' and so many try to bury it under the noise of > > > > > parties > > > > > > > etc and so many are dependent on anti-depressants, I am not sure > > > if > > > > > > > everyone is really wishing for 'immortality'. > > > > > > > Many " gurus " say that everyone is looking for happiness or > > > freedom > > > > > from > > > > > > > suffering. They further say that the true, lasting peace and > > > > > happiness > > > > > > > is to be only found within and not in external objects. This > > > reason > > > > > > > behind spiritual inquiry I think might be truer - to find the > > > root > > > > > of > > > > > > > suffering. > > > > > > > ac > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There's not very far to look, A C. > > > > > > > > > > > > It's not out there, and it's not someone else's. > > > > > > > > > > > > - D - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, this is what many " gurus " have said too. > > > > > ac > > > > > > > > > > > > > 'Taint in the sayin', and tain't in the listenin', it's all in the > > > realizin'. > > > > > > > > > > Do you realize that, Tim? > > > ac > > > > Does it matter to the reader? > > > > If so, why? > > > > > You are " the reader " . > No, you are. No, *you* are. No.... *yoooooooo* are ;-). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 Nisargadatta , " ac " <adithya_comming wrote: > > > Nisargadatta , " Hur Guler " <hurg@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " inandor@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > Hur Guler > > > Nisargadatta > > > Tuesday, February 23, 2010 2:36 PM > > > Re: i am that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Lene " <lschwabe@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > What I do not get - and so far never heard any guru, any one - > > > > explain in a way which is satisfactory, is: why are we on this > > > > planet earth anyway? It is so painful so why are we here? What > > > > are we doing? > > > > > > > > > > Whether the answer comes from the personal dual or the impersonal > nondual > > > angle, I don't think we just want to know why we are here but our > motivation > > > is how we can continue to exist and achieve some sort of > immortality. All > > > spiritual teachings offer a promise of immortality. Nondual > teachings are > > > more subltle and yet they serve the same purpose...it's still > something to > > > hold on to for us. > > > -hur-ji- > > > > > > I am not looking for immortality. I realized I existed - as a kid > and that > > > made me wonder: how come? > > > That was the drive. You are projecting your own aims into others. > > > -geo- > > > > > it's true that i'm making an observation on others...just a few > billion or so who want that ticket for the " all inclusive resort in the > sky " > > > > Questions is... > Do they really want it or, are they taught and in some cases 'forced' to > want this resort in sky... by their parents and the rest of the society > ever since they are five years old? > Who wouldn't want it? Every spiritual teaching has a travel bureau and their own package. Demand and supply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 [...]> > > > > > > > Considering that so many people are suicidal. So many commit and> > > > so> > > > > > many> > > > > > > > attempt or contempt suicide. So many use drugs and alcohol to> > > > forget> > > > > > > > their 'existence' and so many try to bury it under the noise of> > > > > > parties> > > > > > > > etc and so many are dependent on anti-depressants, I am not sure> > > > if> > > > > > > > everyone is really wishing for 'immortality'.> > > > > > > > Many "gurus" say that everyone is looking for happiness or> > > > freedom> > > > > > from> > > > > > > > suffering. They further say that the true, lasting peace and> > > > > > happiness> > > > > > > > is to be only found within and not in external objects. This> > > > reason> > > > > > > > behind spiritual inquiry I think might be truer - to find the> > > > root> > > > > > of> > > > > > > > suffering.> > > > > > > > ac> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > There's not very far to look, A C.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > It's not out there, and it's not someone else's.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > - D -> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > Yes, this is what many "gurus" have said too.> > > > > > ac> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > 'Taint in the sayin', and tain't in the listenin', it's all in the> > > > realizin'.> > > > >> > > > > > > > Do you realize that, Tim?> > > > ac> > > > > > Does it matter to the reader?> > > > > > If so, why?> > >> > > > > > You are "the reader".> >> > No, you are.> > No, *you* are.> > No.... *yoooooooo* are ;-). When "Tim" reads Tim is the reader.When I read, I am the reader.Since Tim is the the one who wrote:'Taint in the sayin', and tain't in the listenin', it's all in the realizin'.I am assuming that realizin is important to Tim.Is realization important to Tim, the man who is reading this text, now?Whose realization is important to him, his own or someone else's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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