Guest guest Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 - Tim G. Nisargadatta Tuesday, February 23, 2010 6:01 PM Re: i am that Nisargadatta , " Hur Guler " <hurg wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " ac " <adithya_comming@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Hur Guler " <hurg@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Lene " lschwabe@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > What I do not get - and so far never heard any guru, any one - > > > > explain in a way which is satisfactory, is: why are we on this > > > > planet earth anyway? It is so painful so why are we here? What > > > > are we doing? > > > > > > > > > > Whether the answer comes from the personal dual or the impersonal > > nondual angle, I don't think we just want to know why we are here but > > our motivation is how we can continue to exist and achieve some sort of > > immortality. All spiritual teachings offer a promise of immortality. > > Nondual teachings are more subltle and yet they serve the same > > purpose...it's still something to hold on to for us. > > > > > > > Considering that so many people are suicidal. So many commit and so many > > attempt or contempt suicide. So many use drugs and alcohol to forget > > their 'existence' and so many try to bury it under the noise of parties > > etc and so many are dependent on anti-depressants, I am not sure if > > everyone is really wishing for 'immortality'. > > Many " gurus " say that everyone is looking for happiness or freedom from > > suffering. They further say that the true, lasting peace and happiness > > is to be only found within and not in external objects. This reason > > behind spiritual inquiry I think might be truer - to find the root of > > suffering. > > ac > > > > Oh...so that's what " liberation " means. It's an opiate for the > masses to relieve the pain of being. > Not in my view. In my view, 'liberation' is unconditional Being. There is no relief from the pain of being, except being. The search for relief, is the pain. Nis. didn't say over and over again, " just Be " , for nuthin'. -tim- If there is no other why would it matter what nis said?? ?? ?? ?? ?? -geo- avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 100218-1, 18/02/2010 Tested on: 23/2/2010 19:24:22 avast! - copyright © 1988-2010 ALWIL Software. --- avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 100218-1, 18/02/2010 Tested on: 23/2/2010 20:04:43 avast! - copyright © 1988-2010 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " ac " <adithya_comming@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " ac " <adithya_comming@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Hur Guler " hurg@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " ac " adithya_comming@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Hur Guler " <hurg@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Lene " lschwabe@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What I do not get - and so far never heard any guru, any one - > > > > > > > explain in a way which is satisfactory, is: why are we on this > > > > > > > planet earth anyway? It is so painful so why are we here? What > > > > > > > are we doing? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Whether the answer comes from the personal dual or the > > impersonal > > > > > nondual angle, I don't think we just want to know why we are here > > > but > > > > > our motivation is how we can continue to exist and achieve some > > sort > > > of > > > > > immortality. All spiritual teachings offer a promise of > > immortality. > > > > > Nondual teachings are more subltle and yet they serve the same > > > > > purpose...it's still something to hold on to for us. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Considering that so many people are suicidal. So many commit and > > so > > > many > > > > > attempt or contempt suicide. So many use drugs and alcohol to > > forget > > > > > their 'existence' and so many try to bury it under the noise of > > > parties > > > > > etc and so many are dependent on anti-depressants, I am not sure > > if > > > > > everyone is really wishing for 'immortality'. > > > > > Many " gurus " say that everyone is looking for happiness or freedom > > > from > > > > > suffering. They further say that the true, lasting peace and > > > happiness > > > > > is to be only found within and not in external objects. This > > reason > > > > > behind spiritual inquiry I think might be truer - to find the root > > > of > > > > > suffering. > > > > > ac > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh...so that's what " liberation " means. It's an opiate for the > > masses > > > to relieve the pain of being. > > > > > > > > > > " Masses " ... ??? > > > I don't think spiritual inquiry requires a mass to do it. It is more > > of > > > an individual inquiry in which one finds out the root of his/her own > > > suffering and the reality of the entity that suffers. I am not sure if > > > it is same as the Sunday mass. > > > > > > > > > Other difference is that while drugs work primarily by making you > > 'forget' and thus avoid facing the mental anguish, spiritual inquiry is > > inquiry is about seeing into the suffering, investigating it and > > investigating the reality of the suffering entity. > > In place of just " avoiding " the " reality " , the inquiry tries to find the > > ultimate and then to see how and why one escapes the ultimate reality > > and gets trapped into something else. > > D: Well, look, there can't really be anything else, can there? > > So the " getting trapped " could only be some kind of self-trapping > occurring in imagination - no? > " Once you know with absolute certainty that nothing can trouble you but your own imagination, you come to disregard your desires and fears, concepts and ideas and live by truth alone. " -- Nis., from " I Am That " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 - Tim G. Nisargadatta Tuesday, February 23, 2010 7:56 PM Re: i am that Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > Tim G. > Nisargadatta > Tuesday, February 23, 2010 4:44 PM > Re: i am that > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > Tim G. > > Nisargadatta > > Tuesday, February 23, 2010 3:56 PM > > Re: i am that > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Lene: why are we on this planet earth anyway? > > > > > > > > geo: When I read Gurdjieffa long time ago it became obvious to me - > > > > I > > > > bought the fish. > > > > Mankind is on earth for two absolutely different reasons. > > > > > > > > 1- To fulfill the needs - on a cosmic level - of the absolute in > > > > order > > > > to sustain the creation and maintainence of the universe. > > > > In this sense man, or organic life on earth as a whole, are needed > > > > in > > > > order to keep the ray of creation working. But for this > > > > what is needed is a mankind just like it is: mechanical, > > > > conditioned, > > > > with a sense of herd consciousness. It is as if the earth > > > > needed the wars and collective conflicts to fulfill some of its > > > > needs. > > > > To this there is nothing " we " must do - just remain ignorant > > > > and sleeping as we are. that is what is needed in a cosmic scale. > > > > > > > > 2- For a few there is the opportunity to change. That is what we are > > > > discussing in these forums (not entering in that now). > > > > This change is a turn inward. A " new " movement in its nature. This > > > > new > > > > movement is only attainable through the realization of > > > > non-separation, of " existing " . It is not meant to the majority for > > > > that > > > > would disturb the other needs of the universe (#1) - but for some > > > > it is possible and necessary for the universe.... in this case not > > > > the > > > > same reasons as in #1. > > > > > > > > This can be read in Ouspensky's (G's student) book called - In > > > > Search > > > > Of > > > > The Miraculous. > > > > > > > > NOTE: Those are very quick and not very carefully chosen words up > > > > there. > > > > -geo- > > > > > > Geo - > > > > > > You honestly believe that? > > > > > > Wow. > > > > > > (Not to mention, it contradicts the " no inner/no outer " you spoke of > > > just > > > a little while ago. Now, it is cosmic levels and a ray of creation > > > that > > > must be kept working, not to mention getting to be selected to be one > > > of > > > the " chosen few, " eh? > > > > > > Very special, no? > > > > > > Quite a mythology you bought into. > > > > > > - D - > > > > > > > You honestly believe there's a Geo-entity there, Daniel-san, believing > > something? > > > > Do I honestly believe there's a Danielsan-entity-there, Tim-san, > > believing > > in a Geo-entity there? > > > > Naah. > > -tim- > > > > I was going to say something very similar. The old pendulum trap. Swing > > to > > the side that makes you > > apparently look nicer and handsomer in the picture. LOL > > -geo- > > Indeed... > > And " where " is this picture always " located " ... ;-). > -tim- > > On the same old new srcreen.... > -geo- And so, there never has been " someone else " that " sees me a certain way " (verbally speaking). An " other " isn't even visible, verbally speaking. Nor by sight, nor sound, nor smell, nor touch, nor taste, to be quite honest. avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 100218-1, 18/02/2010 Tested on: 23/2/2010 19:59:48 avast! - copyright © 1988-2010 ALWIL Software. --- avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 100218-1, 18/02/2010 Tested on: 23/2/2010 20:13:23 avast! - copyright © 1988-2010 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > Tim G. > Nisargadatta > Tuesday, February 23, 2010 6:01 PM > Re: i am that > > > > Nisargadatta , " Hur Guler " <hurg@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " ac " <adithya_comming@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Hur Guler " <hurg@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Lene " lschwabe@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What I do not get - and so far never heard any guru, any one - > > > > > explain in a way which is satisfactory, is: why are we on this > > > > > planet earth anyway? It is so painful so why are we here? What > > > > > are we doing? > > > > > > > > > > > > > Whether the answer comes from the personal dual or the impersonal > > > nondual angle, I don't think we just want to know why we are here but > > > our motivation is how we can continue to exist and achieve some sort of > > > immortality. All spiritual teachings offer a promise of immortality. > > > Nondual teachings are more subltle and yet they serve the same > > > purpose...it's still something to hold on to for us. > > > > > > > > > > Considering that so many people are suicidal. So many commit and so many > > > attempt or contempt suicide. So many use drugs and alcohol to forget > > > their 'existence' and so many try to bury it under the noise of parties > > > etc and so many are dependent on anti-depressants, I am not sure if > > > everyone is really wishing for 'immortality'. > > > Many " gurus " say that everyone is looking for happiness or freedom from > > > suffering. They further say that the true, lasting peace and happiness > > > is to be only found within and not in external objects. This reason > > > behind spiritual inquiry I think might be truer - to find the root of > > > suffering. > > > ac > > > > > > > Oh...so that's what " liberation " means. It's an opiate for the > > masses to relieve the pain of being. > > > > Not in my view. > > In my view, 'liberation' is unconditional Being. > > There is no relief from the pain of being, except being. > > The search for relief, is the pain. > > Nis. didn't say over and over again, " just Be " , for nuthin'. > -tim- > > If there is no other why would it matter what nis said?? ?? ?? ?? > ?? > -geo- I just enjoy his words sometimes. That's all. Nothing complicated or esoteric about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 - Tim G. Nisargadatta Tuesday, February 23, 2010 7:56 PM Re: i am that Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > Tim G. > Nisargadatta > Tuesday, February 23, 2010 4:44 PM > Re: i am that > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > Tim G. > > Nisargadatta > > Tuesday, February 23, 2010 3:56 PM > > Re: i am that > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Lene: why are we on this planet earth anyway? > > > > > > > > geo: When I read Gurdjieffa long time ago it became obvious to me - > > > > I > > > > bought the fish. > > > > Mankind is on earth for two absolutely different reasons. > > > > > > > > 1- To fulfill the needs - on a cosmic level - of the absolute in > > > > order > > > > to sustain the creation and maintainence of the universe. > > > > In this sense man, or organic life on earth as a whole, are needed > > > > in > > > > order to keep the ray of creation working. But for this > > > > what is needed is a mankind just like it is: mechanical, > > > > conditioned, > > > > with a sense of herd consciousness. It is as if the earth > > > > needed the wars and collective conflicts to fulfill some of its > > > > needs. > > > > To this there is nothing " we " must do - just remain ignorant > > > > and sleeping as we are. that is what is needed in a cosmic scale. > > > > > > > > 2- For a few there is the opportunity to change. That is what we are > > > > discussing in these forums (not entering in that now). > > > > This change is a turn inward. A " new " movement in its nature. This > > > > new > > > > movement is only attainable through the realization of > > > > non-separation, of " existing " . It is not meant to the majority for > > > > that > > > > would disturb the other needs of the universe (#1) - but for some > > > > it is possible and necessary for the universe.... in this case not > > > > the > > > > same reasons as in #1. > > > > > > > > This can be read in Ouspensky's (G's student) book called - In > > > > Search > > > > Of > > > > The Miraculous. > > > > > > > > NOTE: Those are very quick and not very carefully chosen words up > > > > there. > > > > -geo- > > > > > > Geo - > > > > > > You honestly believe that? > > > > > > Wow. > > > > > > (Not to mention, it contradicts the " no inner/no outer " you spoke of > > > just > > > a little while ago. Now, it is cosmic levels and a ray of creation > > > that > > > must be kept working, not to mention getting to be selected to be one > > > of > > > the " chosen few, " eh? > > > > > > Very special, no? > > > > > > Quite a mythology you bought into. > > > > > > - D - > > > > > > > You honestly believe there's a Geo-entity there, Daniel-san, believing > > something? > > > > Do I honestly believe there's a Danielsan-entity-there, Tim-san, > > believing > > in a Geo-entity there? > > > > Naah. > > -tim- > > > > I was going to say something very similar. The old pendulum trap. Swing > > to > > the side that makes you > > apparently look nicer and handsomer in the picture. LOL > > -geo- > > Indeed... > > And " where " is this picture always " located " ... ;-). > -tim- > > On the same old new srcreen.... > -geo- And so, there never has been " someone else " that " sees me a certain way " (verbally speaking). An " other " isn't even visible, verbally speaking. Nor by sight, nor sound, nor smell, nor touch, nor taste, to be quite honest. -geo- Nor?? The world is the sensing. There is no other world apart from sensing. -geo- avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 100218-1, 18/02/2010 Tested on: 23/2/2010 19:59:48 avast! - copyright © 1988-2010 ALWIL Software. --- avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 100218-1, 18/02/2010 Tested on: 23/2/2010 20:15:37 avast! - copyright © 1988-2010 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > dan330033 > Nisargadatta > Tuesday, February 23, 2010 4:15 PM > Re: i am that > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Lene: why are we on this planet earth anyway? > > > > > > > > geo: When I read Gurdjieffa long time ago it became obvious to me - I > > > > bought the fish. > > > > Mankind is on earth for two absolutely different reasons. > > > > > > > > 1- To fulfill the needs - on a cosmic level - of the absolute in order > > > > to sustain the creation and maintainence of the universe. > > > > In this sense man, or organic life on earth as a whole, are needed in > > > > order to keep the ray of creation working. But for this > > > > what is needed is a mankind just like it is: mechanical, conditioned, > > > > with a sense of herd consciousness. It is as if the earth > > > > needed the wars and collective conflicts to fulfill some of its needs. > > > > To this there is nothing " we " must do - just remain ignorant > > > > and sleeping as we are. that is what is needed in a cosmic scale. > > > > > > > > 2- For a few there is the opportunity to change. That is what we are > > > > discussing in these forums (not entering in that now). > > > > This change is a turn inward. A " new " movement in its nature. This new > > > > movement is only attainable through the realization of > > > > non-separation, of " existing " . It is not meant to the majority for > > > > that would disturb the other needs of the universe (#1) - but for some > > > > it is possible and necessary for the universe.... in this case not the > > > > same reasons as in #1. > > > > > > > > This can be read in Ouspensky's (G's student) book called - In Search > > > > Of The Miraculous. > > > > > > > > NOTE: Those are very quick and not very carefully chosen words up > > > > there. > > > > -geo- > > > > > > Geo - > > > > > > You honestly believe that? > > > > > > Wow. > > > > > > (Not to mention, it contradicts the " no inner/no outer " you spoke of > > > just a little while ago. Now, it is cosmic levels and a ray of creation > > > that must be kept working, not to mention getting to be selected to be > > > one of the " chosen few, " eh? > > > > > > Very special, no? > > > > > > Quite a mythology you bought into. > > > > > > - D - > No. No need for some inner/outer at all from the absolute. No matter what > anyone should say, if the name Gourdjieff is mentioned you > haaaaate it. You already told me not to read G for it is bad for my > education, and I thanked your concern. > PS - What did you read from him? > -geo- Geo - Whatever I read is a story in the past, in memory. Do I need any belief, any story from the past, any thought-configuration in order to be as I am, as this is? If there is no outside to one, then what need to hold onto these beliefs about a ray, and making sure the ray works, and being chosen as one of the elect? You don't see the inconsistency to that position? If there is no outside to me, and no inside - how am I going to divide myself into part that is a ray, and another part that is helping the ray, and another part that knows about the ray, and another part that doesn't know about the ray, but is supposed to stay asleep? You brought up " fragmentation " ... you don't see the fragmentation involved? If you don't - okay, I guess we just see it differently. - D - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " ac " <adithya_comming@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " ac " <adithya_comming@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Hur Guler " hurg@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " ac " adithya_comming@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Hur Guler " <hurg@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Lene " lschwabe@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What I do not get - and so far never heard any guru, any one - > > > > > > > > explain in a way which is satisfactory, is: why are we on this > > > > > > > > planet earth anyway? It is so painful so why are we here? What > > > > > > > > are we doing? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Whether the answer comes from the personal dual or the > > > impersonal > > > > > > nondual angle, I don't think we just want to know why we are here > > > > but > > > > > > our motivation is how we can continue to exist and achieve some > > > sort > > > > of > > > > > > immortality. All spiritual teachings offer a promise of > > > immortality. > > > > > > Nondual teachings are more subltle and yet they serve the same > > > > > > purpose...it's still something to hold on to for us. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Considering that so many people are suicidal. So many commit and > > > so > > > > many > > > > > > attempt or contempt suicide. So many use drugs and alcohol to > > > forget > > > > > > their 'existence' and so many try to bury it under the noise of > > > > parties > > > > > > etc and so many are dependent on anti-depressants, I am not sure > > > if > > > > > > everyone is really wishing for 'immortality'. > > > > > > Many " gurus " say that everyone is looking for happiness or freedom > > > > from > > > > > > suffering. They further say that the true, lasting peace and > > > > happiness > > > > > > is to be only found within and not in external objects. This > > > reason > > > > > > behind spiritual inquiry I think might be truer - to find the root > > > > of > > > > > > suffering. > > > > > > ac > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh...so that's what " liberation " means. It's an opiate for the > > > masses > > > > to relieve the pain of being. > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Masses " ... ??? > > > > I don't think spiritual inquiry requires a mass to do it. It is more > > > of > > > > an individual inquiry in which one finds out the root of his/her own > > > > suffering and the reality of the entity that suffers. I am not sure if > > > > it is same as the Sunday mass. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Other difference is that while drugs work primarily by making you > > > 'forget' and thus avoid facing the mental anguish, spiritual inquiry is > > > inquiry is about seeing into the suffering, investigating it and > > > investigating the reality of the suffering entity. > > > In place of just " avoiding " the " reality " , the inquiry tries to find the > > > ultimate and then to see how and why one escapes the ultimate reality > > > and gets trapped into something else. > > > > D: Well, look, there can't really be anything else, can there? > > > > So the " getting trapped " could only be some kind of self-trapping > > occurring in imagination - no? > > > > " Once you know with absolute certainty that nothing can trouble you but your own imagination, you come to disregard your desires and fears, concepts and ideas and live by truth alone. " -- Nis., from " I Am That " > And who is the disregarder ? Werner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > dan330033 > Nisargadatta > Tuesday, February 23, 2010 4:10 PM > Re: i am that > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > Marc > > Nisargadatta > > Tuesday, February 23, 2010 1:12 PM > > Re: Re: i am that > > > > > > > > - > > Marc > > Nisargadatta > > Tuesday, February 23, 2010 12:07 PM > > Re: Re: i am that > > > > Marc > > Nisargadatta > > Tuesday, February 23, 2010 11:34 AM > > Re: i am that > > > > " I love the way the man talks. Thanks for all of the quotes AC. > > > > What I do not get - and so far never heard any guru, any one - > > explain in a way which is satisfactory, is: why are we on this > > planet earth anyway? It is so painful so why are we here? What > > are we doing? > > ............ ......... ... " > > > > " who " has ever been " here " ....?. .. > > > > somebody is here? > > > > " Lene " is here?... > > > > why is " Lene " here? > > > > because " Lene " want to imagine to be " here " > > > > ... > > > > Marc > > > > She knows that marc. We have been talking about it all along. But she also > > sees > > that there are other human beings around this one here (there). So she is > > asking: > > what for? > > -geo- > > > > if she knew this already..... .good > > > > ... > > > > " there are other human beings around this one here...what for? " .... > > > > because she already forgot that " Lene " want them to be " there " > > > > ... > > > > Marc > > > > No. It was not " lene " . > > -geo- > > > > " who " else.....could appear to/from/because of " Lene " ....? > > > > Marc > > > > Look around. Are there not dogs, pigs, wolves.....and...man around you? > > Although we know that these organisms are just empty patterns of the > > one.....there > > are man. > > -geo- > > You are asking someone out there to agree with you? > -dan- > > You are asking this question to someone out there? > -geo- D: No, not at all. Although, the words give the appearance of such. This is the built-in assumptions of words. It is simple movement of energy, so to speak. Energy not being separate from awareness or the space it moves through. > And where are these dogs, pigs, wolves, and ... man? > > Are they existing things out there, separate from the observer of them? > > They are in this world. Why ask? > -geo- For the simple reason that they are formulations of thought, and not actual existences in a world separated from thought. > You say " we " know that they are empty patterns of the one. > > Who is this " we " who knows this? > -dan- > > Who is this " you " in " you say " ? Someone that is out there? > -geo- D: Ah, answering a question with a question, I see. The you is the one aware. It's that simple. It's not many different we's as you imply in this post and your other. Not a special group of elect while others sleep. Just the one aware. And the patterns are not other. They are energy/awareness movement, inseparable from the space through which the movement occurs. > And you say " even though " we know this ... " there are man. " > > Well, is it empty patterns or not? > -dan- > > Yes, empty patterns as man. What is the problem? There are empty patterns as > hot-dogs also. > Are you alright? D: I'm great, thanks for asking. How about you? Alright? If you realize you are the patterns, and the patterns are you, then there is no identifying with any particular pattern, is there? Such as " hot dog " or " human being " ... And there is no " the human beings made a mess of this " because it is just a pattern among patterns among patterns. Without any disconnection. One discriminates, yet no disconnection ever occurred. > Is there something out there, or not? > -dan- > > Again? No. > What makes you think so? > -geo- D: If not, then how is it that one would hold beliefs about a ray, and helpers of the ray, and those who sleep, and human beings who are fragmented, and others who aren't - one simply is, no? There is no attachment to past thoughts and patterns from the past, is there? > I'm not really asking you to make up your mind. > > It may sound like that, but no, it's not important to me that you make up > your mind what you are saying. > - Dan - > > " Your mind " ? Who is that? Someone apart? > LOL You laugh at your own quips, I see. Amuse yourself with your wit. " Your mind " is just a convention of speech. Don't get hung up on it. None of these conventions of speech has ever made anything to exist. Let alone a mythology about " a ray " or any of the rest of the drama. Believing in a drama, for the sake of being one of the elect who knows what is going on, eh? To be one of those special in-the-know thought-forms ... - D - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > dan330033 > Nisargadatta > Tuesday, February 23, 2010 4:14 PM > Re: i am that > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > dan330033 > > Nisargadatta > > Tuesday, February 23, 2010 3:48 PM > > Re: i am that > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > Lene: why are we on this planet earth anyway? > > > > > > geo: When I read Gurdjieffa long time ago it became obvious to me - I > > > bought the fish. > > > Mankind is on earth for two absolutely different reasons. > > > > > > 1- To fulfill the needs - on a cosmic level - of the absolute in order > > > to > > > sustain the creation and maintainence of the universe. > > > In this sense man, or organic life on earth as a whole, are needed in > > > order to keep the ray of creation working. But for this > > > what is needed is a mankind just like it is: mechanical, conditioned, > > > with > > > a sense of herd consciousness. It is as if the earth > > > needed the wars and collective conflicts to fulfill some of its needs. > > > To > > > this there is nothing " we " must do - just remain ignorant > > > and sleeping as we are. that is what is needed in a cosmic scale. > > > > > > 2- For a few there is the opportunity to change. That is what we are > > > discussing in these forums (not entering in that now). > > > This change is a turn inward. A " new " movement in its nature. This new > > > movement is only attainable through the realization of > > > non-separation, of " existing " . It is not meant to the majority for that > > > would disturb the other needs of the universe (#1) - but for some > > > it is possible and necessary for the universe.... in this case not the > > > same reasons as in #1. > > > > > > This can be read in Ouspensky's (G's student) book called - In Search Of > > > The Miraculous. > > > > > > NOTE: Those are very quick and not very carefully chosen words up there. > > > -geo- > > > > Geo - > > > > You honestly believe that? > > > > Wow. > > > > (Not to mention, it contradicts the " no inner/no outer " you spoke of just > > a > > little while ago. Now, it is cosmic levels and a ray of creation that must > > be kept working, not to mention getting to be selected to be one of the > > " chosen few, " eh? > > > > Very special, no? > > > > Quite a mythology you bought into. > > > > - D - > > > > Whom are you adressing? > > -geo- > > Is that a requirement - that there be someone being addressed? > > - D - > > Is it for geo? > -geo- You've got questions. The answer is already there, before the question. - D - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > Hur Guler > Nisargadatta > Tuesday, February 23, 2010 5:08 PM > Re: i am that > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > Hur Guler > > Nisargadatta > > Tuesday, February 23, 2010 2:36 PM > > Re: i am that > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Lene " <lschwabe@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > What I do not get - and so far never heard any guru, any one - > > > explain in a way which is satisfactory, is: why are we on this > > > planet earth anyway? It is so painful so why are we here? What > > > are we doing? > > > > > > > Whether the answer comes from the personal dual or the impersonal nondual > > angle, I don't think we just want to know why we are here but our > > motivation > > is how we can continue to exist and achieve some sort of immortality. All > > spiritual teachings offer a promise of immortality. Nondual teachings are > > more subltle and yet they serve the same purpose...it's still something to > > hold on to for us. > > -hur-ji- > > > > I am not looking for immortality. I realized I existed - as a kid and that > > made me wonder: how come? > > That was the drive. You are projecting your own aims into others. > > -geo- > > > it's true that i'm making an observation on others...just a few billion or > so who want that ticket for the " all inclusive resort in the sky " > -hur- > > I say " there is also that indeed " . Dan says there are no other man, > muchtheless billions of them. LOL LOL > -geo- Not so. I recognize that there are thoughts about " men " and " women. " Thoughts that millions are born and die each day. You just haven't understood what I said. No problem. Entertain yourself with your fine wit. Carry on with the LOL, LOL. It's good for your immune system. - D - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " ac " <adithya_comming@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " ac " <adithya_comming@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Hur Guler " hurg@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " ac " adithya_comming@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Hur Guler " <hurg@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Lene " lschwabe@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What I do not get - and so far never heard any guru, any one - > > > > > > > > explain in a way which is satisfactory, is: why are we on this > > > > > > > > planet earth anyway? It is so painful so why are we here? What > > > > > > > > are we doing? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Whether the answer comes from the personal dual or the > > > impersonal > > > > > > nondual angle, I don't think we just want to know why we are here > > > > but > > > > > > our motivation is how we can continue to exist and achieve some > > > sort > > > > of > > > > > > immortality. All spiritual teachings offer a promise of > > > immortality. > > > > > > Nondual teachings are more subltle and yet they serve the same > > > > > > purpose...it's still something to hold on to for us. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Considering that so many people are suicidal. So many commit and > > > so > > > > many > > > > > > attempt or contempt suicide. So many use drugs and alcohol to > > > forget > > > > > > their 'existence' and so many try to bury it under the noise of > > > > parties > > > > > > etc and so many are dependent on anti-depressants, I am not sure > > > if > > > > > > everyone is really wishing for 'immortality'. > > > > > > Many " gurus " say that everyone is looking for happiness or freedom > > > > from > > > > > > suffering. They further say that the true, lasting peace and > > > > happiness > > > > > > is to be only found within and not in external objects. This > > > reason > > > > > > behind spiritual inquiry I think might be truer - to find the root > > > > of > > > > > > suffering. > > > > > > ac > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh...so that's what " liberation " means. It's an opiate for the > > > masses > > > > to relieve the pain of being. > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Masses " ... ??? > > > > I don't think spiritual inquiry requires a mass to do it. It is more > > > of > > > > an individual inquiry in which one finds out the root of his/her own > > > > suffering and the reality of the entity that suffers. I am not sure if > > > > it is same as the Sunday mass. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Other difference is that while drugs work primarily by making you > > > 'forget' and thus avoid facing the mental anguish, spiritual inquiry is > > > inquiry is about seeing into the suffering, investigating it and > > > investigating the reality of the suffering entity. > > > In place of just " avoiding " the " reality " , the inquiry tries to find the > > > ultimate and then to see how and why one escapes the ultimate reality > > > and gets trapped into something else. > > > > D: Well, look, there can't really be anything else, can there? > > > > So the " getting trapped " could only be some kind of self-trapping > > occurring in imagination - no? > > > > " Once you know with absolute certainty that nothing can trouble you but your own imagination, you come to disregard your desires and fears, concepts and ideas and live by truth alone. " -- Nis., from " I Am That " Hear, here. Listen up! Smiles, - D - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " ac " <adithya_comming@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " ac " <adithya_comming@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Hur Guler " hurg@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " ac " adithya_comming@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Hur Guler " <hurg@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Lene " lschwabe@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What I do not get - and so far never heard any guru, any one - > > > > > > > > > explain in a way which is satisfactory, is: why are we on this > > > > > > > > > planet earth anyway? It is so painful so why are we here? What > > > > > > > > > are we doing? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Whether the answer comes from the personal dual or the > > > > impersonal > > > > > > > nondual angle, I don't think we just want to know why we are here > > > > > but > > > > > > > our motivation is how we can continue to exist and achieve some > > > > sort > > > > > of > > > > > > > immortality. All spiritual teachings offer a promise of > > > > immortality. > > > > > > > Nondual teachings are more subltle and yet they serve the same > > > > > > > purpose...it's still something to hold on to for us. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Considering that so many people are suicidal. So many commit and > > > > so > > > > > many > > > > > > > attempt or contempt suicide. So many use drugs and alcohol to > > > > forget > > > > > > > their 'existence' and so many try to bury it under the noise of > > > > > parties > > > > > > > etc and so many are dependent on anti-depressants, I am not sure > > > > if > > > > > > > everyone is really wishing for 'immortality'. > > > > > > > Many " gurus " say that everyone is looking for happiness or freedom > > > > > from > > > > > > > suffering. They further say that the true, lasting peace and > > > > > happiness > > > > > > > is to be only found within and not in external objects. This > > > > reason > > > > > > > behind spiritual inquiry I think might be truer - to find the root > > > > > of > > > > > > > suffering. > > > > > > > ac > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh...so that's what " liberation " means. It's an opiate for the > > > > masses > > > > > to relieve the pain of being. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Masses " ... ??? > > > > > I don't think spiritual inquiry requires a mass to do it. It is more > > > > of > > > > > an individual inquiry in which one finds out the root of his/her own > > > > > suffering and the reality of the entity that suffers. I am not sure if > > > > > it is same as the Sunday mass. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Other difference is that while drugs work primarily by making you > > > > 'forget' and thus avoid facing the mental anguish, spiritual inquiry is > > > > inquiry is about seeing into the suffering, investigating it and > > > > investigating the reality of the suffering entity. > > > > In place of just " avoiding " the " reality " , the inquiry tries to find the > > > > ultimate and then to see how and why one escapes the ultimate reality > > > > and gets trapped into something else. > > > > > > D: Well, look, there can't really be anything else, can there? > > > > > > So the " getting trapped " could only be some kind of self-trapping > > > occurring in imagination - no? > > > > > > > " Once you know with absolute certainty that nothing can trouble you but your own imagination, you come to disregard your desires and fears, concepts and ideas and live by truth alone. " -- Nis., from " I Am That " > > > > > And who is the disregarder ? > > Werner The answer is, before the question arises. - D - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > > " Once you know with absolute certainty that nothing can trouble you but your own imagination, you come to disregard your desires and fears, concepts and ideas and live by truth alone. " -- Nis., from " I Am That " > > Hear, here. > > Listen up! > > Smiles, > > - D - It seems nothing can 'keep one company' but one's own imagination, too. That seems to be the sticking point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 Nisargadatta , "geo" <inandor wrote:>> > - > ac> Nisargadatta > Tuesday, February 23, 2010 4:31 PM> Re: i am that> > > > > Nisargadatta , "dan330033" dan330033@ wrote:> >> >> >> > Nisargadatta , "ac" adithya_comming@ wrote:> > >> > >> > > Nisargadatta , "Hur Guler" <hurg@> wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > Nisargadatta , "Lene" lschwabe@ wrote:> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > What I do not get - and so far never heard any guru, any one -> > > > > explain in a way which is satisfactory, is: why are we on this> > > > > planet earth anyway? It is so painful so why are we here? What> > > > > are we doing?> > > > >> > > >> > > > Whether the answer comes from the personal dual or the impersonal> > > nondual angle, I don't think we just want to know why we ar e here but> > > our motivation is how we can continue to exist and achieve some sort of> > > immortality. All spiritual teachings offer a promise of immortality.> > > Nondual teachings are more subltle and yet they serve the same> > > purpose...it's still something to hold on to for us.> > > >> > >> > > Considering that so many people are suicidal. So many commit and so many> > > attempt or contempt suicide. So many use drugs and alcohol to forget> > > their 'existence' and so many try to bury it under the noise of parties> > > etc and so many are dependent on anti-depressants, I am not sure if> > > everyone is really wishing for 'immortality'.> > > Many "gurus" say that everyone is looking for happiness or freedom from> > > suffering. They further say that the true, lasting peace and happiness> > > is to be only found within and not in external objec ts. This reason> > > behind spiritual inquiry I think might be truer - to find the root of> > > suffering.> > > ac> >> >> > There's not very far to look, A C.> >> > It's not out there, and it's not someone else's.> >> > - D -> > > > > Yes, this is what many "gurus" have said too.> ac> > I thing you are badly in need of a guru, ac.> -geo-> Why do you suspect that I put the word guru in quotes, Geo?I put that in quote because many of them like Ramana Maharshi didn't consider themselves to be anyone's guru. Many times, it was a label that others assigned to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > " Once you know with absolute certainty that nothing can trouble you but your own imagination, you come to disregard your desires and fears, concepts and ideas and live by truth alone. " -- Nis., from " I Am That " > > > > Hear, here. > > > > Listen up! > > > > Smiles, > > > > - D - > > It seems nothing can 'keep one company' but one's own imagination, too. > > That seems to be the sticking point. Agreed. Once it gets going. Like a locomotive running down hill. What's going to stop it? Except that it never was an " it " ... And everything against you and for you never was. Even at the time it seemed so real, and pleasurable, and painful. But then, there was no time like that, was there? - D - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 You laugh at your own quips, I see.Amuse yourself with your wit."Your mind" is just a convention of speech.Don't get hung up on it.None of these conventions of speech has ever made anything to exist.Let alone a mythology about "a ray" or any of the rest of the drama.Believing in a drama, for the sake of being one of the elect who knows what is going on, eh? To be one of those special in-the-know thought-forms ...- D -You invented a dialogue a la dan in your mind. I have not said what you suppose i did...including the drama stuff. -geo- avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 100218-1, 18/02/2010Tested on: 23/2/2010 21:50:54avast! - copyright © 1988-2010 ALWIL Software. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 - dan330033 Nisargadatta Tuesday, February 23, 2010 8:39 PM Re: i am that Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > dan330033 > Nisargadatta > Tuesday, February 23, 2010 4:14 PM > Re: i am that > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > dan330033 > > Nisargadatta > > Tuesday, February 23, 2010 3:48 PM > > Re: i am that > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > Lene: why are we on this planet earth anyway? > > > > > > geo: When I read Gurdjieffa long time ago it became obvious to me - I > > > bought the fish. > > > Mankind is on earth for two absolutely different reasons. > > > > > > 1- To fulfill the needs - on a cosmic level - of the absolute in order > > > to > > > sustain the creation and maintainence of the universe. > > > In this sense man, or organic life on earth as a whole, are needed in > > > order to keep the ray of creation working. But for this > > > what is needed is a mankind just like it is: mechanical, conditioned, > > > with > > > a sense of herd consciousness. It is as if the earth > > > needed the wars and collective conflicts to fulfill some of its needs. > > > To > > > this there is nothing " we " must do - just remain ignorant > > > and sleeping as we are. that is what is needed in a cosmic scale. > > > > > > 2- For a few there is the opportunity to change. That is what we are > > > discussing in these forums (not entering in that now). > > > This change is a turn inward. A " new " movement in its nature. This new > > > movement is only attainable through the realization of > > > non-separation, of " existing " . It is not meant to the majority for > > > that > > > would disturb the other needs of the universe (#1) - but for some > > > it is possible and necessary for the universe.... in this case not the > > > same reasons as in #1. > > > > > > This can be read in Ouspensky's (G's student) book called - In Search > > > Of > > > The Miraculous. > > > > > > NOTE: Those are very quick and not very carefully chosen words up > > > there. > > > -geo- > > > > Geo - > > > > You honestly believe that? > > > > Wow. > > > > (Not to mention, it contradicts the " no inner/no outer " you spoke of > > just > > a > > little while ago. Now, it is cosmic levels and a ray of creation that > > must > > be kept working, not to mention getting to be selected to be one of the > > " chosen few, " eh? > > > > Very special, no? > > > > Quite a mythology you bought into. > > > > - D - > > > > Whom are you adressing? > > -geo- > > Is that a requirement - that there be someone being addressed? > > - D - > > Is it for geo? > -geo- You've got questions. The answer is already there, before the question. - D - Then why ask " Is that a requirement - that there be someone being addressed " ? The answer is already there, before the question. -geo- avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 100218-1, 18/02/2010 Tested on: 23/2/2010 21:41:11 avast! - copyright © 1988-2010 ALWIL Software. --- avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 100218-1, 18/02/2010 Tested on: 23/2/2010 21:54:32 avast! - copyright © 1988-2010 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 Nisargadatta , " ac " <adithya_comming wrote: > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Hur Guler " hurg@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " ac " <adithya_comming@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Hur Guler " <hurg@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Lene " lschwabe@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What I do not get - and so far never heard any guru, any one - > > > > > > explain in a way which is satisfactory, is: why are we on this > > > > > > planet earth anyway? It is so painful so why are we here? What > > > > > > are we doing? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Whether the answer comes from the personal dual or the > impersonal > > > > nondual angle, I don't think we just want to know why we are here > but > > > > our motivation is how we can continue to exist and achieve some > sort of > > > > immortality. All spiritual teachings offer a promise of > immortality. > > > > Nondual teachings are more subltle and yet they serve the same > > > > purpose...it's still something to hold on to for us. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Considering that so many people are suicidal. So many commit and > so many > > > > attempt or contempt suicide. So many use drugs and alcohol to > forget > > > > their 'existence' and so many try to bury it under the noise of > parties > > > > etc and so many are dependent on anti-depressants, I am not sure > if > > > > everyone is really wishing for 'immortality'. > > > > Many " gurus " say that everyone is looking for happiness or freedom > from > > > > suffering. They further say that the true, lasting peace and > happiness > > > > is to be only found within and not in external objects. This > reason > > > > behind spiritual inquiry I think might be truer - to find the root > of > > > > suffering. > > > > ac > > > > > > > > > > Oh...so that's what " liberation " means. It's an opiate for the > > > masses to relieve the pain of being. > > > > > > Q: I may not remember, but that does not disprove my being occasionally > unconscious. > M: Why not turn away from the experience to the experiencer and realise > the full import of the only true statement you can make: 'I am'? > > Q: How is it done? > M: There is no 'how' here. Just keep in mind the feeling 'I am', merge > in it, till your mind and feeling become one. By repeated attempts you > will stumble on the right balance of attention and affection and your > mind will be firmly established in the thought-feeling 'I am'. Whatever > you think, say, or do, this sense of immutable and affectionate being > remains as the ever-present background of the mind. > > Q: And you call it liberation? > M: I call it normal. What is wrong with being, knowing and acting > effortlessly and happily? Why consider it so unusual as to expect the > immediate destruction of the body? What is wrong with the body that it > should die? Correct your attitude to your body and leave it alone. Don't > pamper, don't torture. Just keep it going, most of the time below the > threshold of conscious attention. > http://www.celextel.org/otherbooks/iamthat.html?page=4 > <http://www.celextel.org/otherbooks/iamthat.html?page=4> > How does this quote apply to the thread? I don't get it. I'm still not sure if self inquiry is to find the root of suffering as you said but perhaps it's a tool to eliminate the personal suffering to a certain degree for ordinary people till pain happens again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 - dan330033 Nisargadatta Tuesday, February 23, 2010 8:43 PM Re: i am that Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > Hur Guler > Nisargadatta > Tuesday, February 23, 2010 5:08 PM > Re: i am that > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > Hur Guler > > Nisargadatta > > Tuesday, February 23, 2010 2:36 PM > > Re: i am that > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Lene " <lschwabe@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > What I do not get - and so far never heard any guru, any one - > > > explain in a way which is satisfactory, is: why are we on this > > > planet earth anyway? It is so painful so why are we here? What > > > are we doing? > > > > > > > Whether the answer comes from the personal dual or the impersonal > > nondual > > angle, I don't think we just want to know why we are here but our > > motivation > > is how we can continue to exist and achieve some sort of immortality. > > All > > spiritual teachings offer a promise of immortality. Nondual teachings > > are > > more subltle and yet they serve the same purpose...it's still something > > to > > hold on to for us. > > -hur-ji- > > > > I am not looking for immortality. I realized I existed - as a kid and > > that > > made me wonder: how come? > > That was the drive. You are projecting your own aims into others. > > -geo- > > > it's true that i'm making an observation on others...just a few billion or > so who want that ticket for the " all inclusive resort in the sky " > -hur- > > I say " there is also that indeed " . Dan says there are no other man, > muchtheless billions of them. LOL LOL > -geo- Not so. I recognize that there are thoughts about " men " and " women. " Thoughts that millions are born and die each day. You just haven't understood what I said. No problem. Entertain yourself with your fine wit. Carry on with the LOL, LOL. It's good for your immune system. - D - OK...i wont laugh anymore. -geo- avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 100218-1, 18/02/2010 Tested on: 23/2/2010 21:41:12 avast! - copyright © 1988-2010 ALWIL Software. --- avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 100218-1, 18/02/2010 Tested on: 23/2/2010 21:59:43 avast! - copyright © 1988-2010 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > You laugh at your own quips, I see. > > Amuse yourself with your wit. > > " Your mind " is just a convention of speech. > > Don't get hung up on it. > > None of these conventions of speech has ever made anything to exist. > > Let alone a mythology about " a ray " or any of the rest of the drama. > > Believing in a drama, for the sake of being one of the elect who knows what is going on, eh? To be one of those special in-the-know thought-forms ... > > - D - > > You invented a dialogue a la dan in your mind. I have not said what you suppose i did...including the drama stuff. > -geo- I didn't suppose you did anything. Did you supposed I supposed? I don't suppose so. - D - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 - ac Nisargadatta Tuesday, February 23, 2010 9:32 PM Re: i am that Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > ac > Nisargadatta > Tuesday, February 23, 2010 4:31 PM > Re: i am that > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " dan330033@ wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " ac " adithya_comming@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Hur Guler " <hurg@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Lene " lschwabe@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What I do not get - and so far never heard any guru, any one - > > > > > explain in a way which is satisfactory, is: why are we on this > > > > > planet earth anyway? It is so painful so why are we here? What > > > > > are we doing? > > > > > > > > > > > > > Whether the answer comes from the personal dual or the impersonal > > > nondual angle, I don't think we just want to know why we ar e here but > > > our motivation is how we can continue to exist and achieve some sort > > > of > > > immortality. All spiritual teachings offer a promise of immortality. > > > Nondual teachings are more subltle and yet they serve the same > > > purpose...it's still something to hold on to for us. > > > > > > > > > > Considering that so many people are suicidal. So many commit and so > > > many > > > attempt or contempt suicide. So many use drugs and alcohol to forget> > > > > > their 'existence' and so many try to bury it under the noise of > > > parties > > > etc and so many are dependent on anti-depressants, I am not sure if > > > everyone is really wishing for 'immortality'. > > > Many " gurus " say that everyone is looking for happiness or freedom > > > from > > > suffering. They further say that the true, lasting peace and happiness > > > is to be only found within and not in external objec ts. This reason > > > behind spiritual inquiry I think might be truer - to find the root of > > > suffering. > > > ac > > > > > > There's not very far to look, A C. > > > > It's not out there, and it's not someone else's. > > > > - D - > > > > > Yes, this is what many " gurus " have said too. > ac > > I thing you are badly in need of a guru, a c. > -geo- > Why do you suspect that I put the word guru in quotes, Geo? I put that in quote because many of them like Ramana Maharshi didn't consider themselves to be anyone's guru. Many times, it was a label that others assigned to them. -ac- OK... Then you are badly in need of a " guru " -geo- avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 100218-1, 18/02/2010 Tested on: 23/2/2010 21:41:14 avast! - copyright © 1988-2010 ALWIL Software. --- avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 100218-1, 18/02/2010 Tested on: 23/2/2010 22:02:33 avast! - copyright © 1988-2010 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > dan330033 > Nisargadatta > Tuesday, February 23, 2010 8:43 PM > Re: i am that > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > Hur Guler > > Nisargadatta > > Tuesday, February 23, 2010 5:08 PM > > Re: i am that > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > Hur Guler > > > Nisargadatta > > > Tuesday, February 23, 2010 2:36 PM > > > Re: i am that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Lene " <lschwabe@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > What I do not get - and so far never heard any guru, any one - > > > > explain in a way which is satisfactory, is: why are we on this > > > > planet earth anyway? It is so painful so why are we here? What > > > > are we doing? > > > > > > > > > > Whether the answer comes from the personal dual or the impersonal > > > nondual > > > angle, I don't think we just want to know why we are here but our > > > motivation > > > is how we can continue to exist and achieve some sort of immortality. > > > All > > > spiritual teachings offer a promise of immortality. Nondual teachings > > > are > > > more subltle and yet they serve the same purpose...it's still something > > > to > > > hold on to for us. > > > -hur-ji- > > > > > > I am not looking for immortality. I realized I existed - as a kid and > > > that > > > made me wonder: how come? > > > That was the drive. You are projecting your own aims into others. > > > -geo- > > > > > it's true that i'm making an observation on others...just a few billion or > > so who want that ticket for the " all inclusive resort in the sky " > > -hur- > > > > I say " there is also that indeed " . Dan says there are no other man, > > muchtheless billions of them. LOL LOL > > -geo- > > Not so. > > I recognize that there are thoughts about " men " and " women. " > > Thoughts that millions are born and die each day. > > You just haven't understood what I said. > > No problem. > > Entertain yourself with your fine wit. > > Carry on with the LOL, LOL. > > It's good for your immune system. > > - D - > > OK...i wont laugh anymore. > -geo- Oh? So, your immune system is fully functioning now. Congratulations! - D - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > dan330033 > Nisargadatta > Tuesday, February 23, 2010 8:50 PM > Re: i am that > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " ac " <adithya_comming@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " ac " <adithya_comming@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Hur Guler " hurg@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " ac " adithya_comming@ > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Hur Guler " <hurg@> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Lene " lschwabe@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What I do not get - and so far never heard any guru, any > > > > > > > > > > one - > > > > > > > > > > explain in a way which is satisfactory, is: why are we on > > > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > planet earth anyway? It is so painful so why are we here? > > > > > > > > > > What > > > > > > > > > > are we doing? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Whether the answer comes from the personal dual or the > > > > > impersonal > > > > > > > > nondual angle, I don't think we just want to know why we are > > > > > > > > here > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > our motivation is how we can continue to exist and achieve > > > > > > > > some > > > > > sort > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > immortality. All spiritual teachings offer a promise of > > > > > immortality. > > > > > > > > Nondual teachings are more subltle and yet they serve the same > > > > > > > > purpose...it's still something to hold on to for us. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Considering that so many people are suicidal. So many commit > > > > > > > > and > > > > > so > > > > > > many > > > > > > > > attempt or contempt suicide. So many use drugs and alcohol to > > > > > forget > > > > > > > > their 'existence' and so many try to bury it under the noise > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > parties > > > > > > > > etc and so many are dependent on anti-depressants, I am not > > > > > > > > sure > > > > > if > > > > > > > > everyone is really wishing for 'immortality'. > > > > > > > > Many " gurus " say that everyone is looking for happiness or > > > > > > > > freedom > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > suffering. They further say that the true, lasting peace and > > > > > > happiness > > > > > > > > is to be only found within and not in external objects. This > > > > > reason > > > > > > > > behind spiritual inquiry I think might be truer - to find the > > > > > > > > root > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > suffering. > > > > > > > > ac > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh...so that's what " liberation " means. It's an opiate for the > > > > > masses > > > > > > to relieve the pain of being. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Masses " ... ??? > > > > > > I don't think spiritual inquiry requires a mass to do it. It is > > > > > > more > > > > > of > > > > > > an individual inquiry in which one finds out the root of his/her > > > > > > own > > > > > > suffering and the reality of the entity that suffers. I am not > > > > > > sure if > > > > > > it is same as the Sunday mass. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Other difference is that while drugs work primarily by making you > > > > > 'forget' and thus avoid facing the mental anguish, spiritual inquiry > > > > > is > > > > > inquiry is about seeing into the suffering, investigating it and > > > > > investigating the reality of the suffering entity. > > > > > In place of just " avoiding " the " reality " , the inquiry tries to find > > > > > the > > > > > ultimate and then to see how and why one escapes the ultimate > > > > > reality > > > > > and gets trapped into something else. > > > > > > > > D: Well, look, there can't really be anything else, can there? > > > > > > > > So the " getting trapped " could only be some kind of self-trapping > > > > occurring in imagination - no? > > > > > > > > > > " Once you know with absolute certainty that nothing can trouble you but > > > your own imagination, you come to disregard your desires and fears, > > > concepts and ideas and live by truth alone. " -- Nis., from " I Am That " > > > > > > > > > And who is the disregarder ? > > > > Werner > > The answer is, before the question arises. > > - D - > > Answer and question arise together. > -geo- I'm not arising. - D - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > " Once you know with absolute certainty that nothing can trouble you but your own imagination, you come to disregard your desires and fears, concepts and ideas and live by truth alone. " -- Nis., from " I Am That " > > > > > > Hear, here. > > > > > > Listen up! > > > > > > Smiles, > > > > > > - D - > > > > It seems nothing can 'keep one company' but one's own imagination, too. > > > > That seems to be the sticking point. > > Agreed. > > Once it gets going. > > Like a locomotive running down hill. > > What's going to stop it? > > Except that it never was an " it " ... > > And everything against you and for you never was. > > Even at the time it seemed so real, and pleasurable, and painful. > > But then, there was no time like that, was there? > > - D - Indeed. How could there have been? Where would such a time be located? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > " Once you know with absolute certainty that nothing can trouble you but your own imagination, you come to disregard your desires and fears, concepts and ideas and live by truth alone. " -- Nis., from " I Am That " > > > > > > Hear, here. > > > > > > Listen up! > > > > > > Smiles, > > > > > > - D - > > > > It seems nothing can 'keep one company' but one's own imagination, too. > > > > That seems to be the sticking point. > > Agreed. > > Once it gets going. > > Like a locomotive running down hill. > > What's going to stop it? Indeed. Awareness gets filled with " many voices " , one might say. All believed to be 'real', to be 'out there', to be 'different than one's own'. One believes to be surrounded by a multitude. I even seem to recall some mild auditory " hearing of voices " as part of the fragment's dissolution, as though the many voices were objecting to the truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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