Guest guest Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 Werner, I want to respond to your points. This is what you said:<<First:Identity is created by thought and not by consciousness.>> Yes, you are correct, and I would agree with you that precisely speaking, identity is indeed created by thought. My bad! However, without getting too entangled in semantics, I feel it is important to recognize that the nature of thought is conditioned consciousness.Second:<As far as I remember Nis said that consciousness assumes numerous forms. He did not say "it assumes the identity of numnerous forms".> OK, you are probably right, and inserting the word 'identity' was something I took the liberty to do. But the intended meaning of my words was to emphasize the fact that, that which identifies with the body, and thinks itself to be a person is merely an idea fabricated within the mind, and to be free, we must free our self from this idea. "During your entire lifetime, you do not have any permanent identity. Whatever you consider yourself to be changes from moment to moment. Nothing is constant.... if you really want to understand this, you must give up your identification with the body. By all means, make use of the body, but don't consider yourself to be the body while acting in this world. Identify yourself with the consciousness, which dwells in the body... if you identify yourself with the body, you will feel that you are dying, but in reality there is no death because you are not the body. Let the body be there or not be there, your existence is always there... You should never forget the real identity that you possess. <And btw, consciousness doesn't assume any form. Consciousness IS the form. Consciousness IS its content. Without content, no consciousness.> OK! “Understand that it is not the individual which has consciousness, it is the consciousness which assumes innumerable forms. That something which is born or which will die is purely imaginary.†{Prior to Consciousness p.26}Marv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 Nisargadatta , Marvin Moss <mmoss2932 wrote: > > Werner, > I want to respond to your points. > This is what you said: > <<First: > Identity is created by thought and not by consciousness.>> > > Yes, you are correct, and I would agree with you that precisely speaking, identity is indeed created by thought. My bad! > However, without getting too entangled in semantics, I feel it is important to recognize that the nature of thought is conditioned consciousness. > > Second: > <As far as I remember Nis said that consciousness assumes numerous forms. He did not say " it assumes the identity of numnerous forms " .> > OK, you are probably right, and inserting the word 'identity' was something I took the liberty to do. But the intended meaning of my words was to emphasize the fact that, that which identifies with the body, and thinks itself to be a person is merely an idea fabricated within the mind, and to be free, we must free our self from this idea. > > " During your entire lifetime, you do not have any permanent identity. Whatever you consider yourself to be changes from moment to moment. Nothing is constant.... if you really want to understand this, you must give up your identification with the body. By all means, make use of the body, but don't consider yourself to be the body while acting in this world. Identify yourself with the consciousness, which dwells in the body... if you identify yourself with the body, you will feel that you are dying, but in reality there is no death because you are not the body. Let the body be there or not be there, your existence is always there... You should never forget the real identity that you possess. Hi Marvin, Nis was repeating here what already so often was repeated and is wrong: " You are idenfying yourself with " Can you see what is false with that ? There is no YOU which can identify itself with something. It again is thought which is identified. Thought is not identifying itself WITH something - thought already IS the identification. When thought is accompanied by emotions then this thought is called identified. When no emotion is accopanying thought then this thought is called non-identified. It is the emotional quality which defines a thought as identified or not. As you might see, that topic is quite interesting. I hope you enjoy it. Werner > > <And btw, consciousness doesn't assume any form. Consciousness IS the form. Consciousness IS its content. Without content, no consciousness.> > OK! > > “Understand that it is not the individual which has consciousness, it is the consciousness which assumes innumerable forms. That something which is born or which will die is purely imaginary.†{Prior to Consciousness p.26} > > Marv > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Nisargadatta , Marvin Moss <mmoss2932@> wrote: > > > > Werner, > > I want to respond to your points. > > This is what you said: > > <<First: > > Identity is created by thought and not by consciousness.>> > > > > Yes, you are correct, and I would agree with you that precisely speaking, identity is indeed created by thought. My bad! > > However, without getting too entangled in semantics, I feel it is important to recognize that the nature of thought is conditioned consciousness. > > > > Second: > > <As far as I remember Nis said that consciousness assumes numerous forms. He did not say " it assumes the identity of numnerous forms " .> > > OK, you are probably right, and inserting the word 'identity' was something I took the liberty to do. But the intended meaning of my words was to emphasize the fact that, that which identifies with the body, and thinks itself to be a person is merely an idea fabricated within the mind, and to be free, we must free our self from this idea. > > > > " During your entire lifetime, you do not have any permanent identity. Whatever you consider yourself to be changes from moment to moment. Nothing is constant.... if you really want to understand this, you must give up your identification with the body. By all means, make use of the body, but don't consider yourself to be the body while acting in this world. Identify yourself with the consciousness, which dwells in the body... if you identify yourself with the body, you will feel that you are dying, but in reality there is no death because you are not the body. Let the body be there or not be there, your existence is always there... You should never forget the real identity that you possess. > > > Hi Marvin, > > Nis was repeating here what already so often was repeated and is wrong: " You are idenfying yourself with " > > Can you see what is false with that ? > > There is no YOU which can identify itself with something. > > It again is thought which is identified. Thought is not identifying itself WITH something - thought already IS the identification. > > When thought is accompanied by emotions then this thought is called identified. When no emotion is accopanying thought then this thought is called non-identified. > > It is the emotional quality which defines a thought as identified or not. > > As you might see, that topic is quite interesting. I hope you enjoy it. > > Werner > > > > > > <And btw, consciousness doesn't assume any form. Consciousness IS the form. Consciousness IS its content. Without content, no consciousness.> > > OK! > > > > “Understand that it is not the individual which has consciousness, it is the consciousness which assumes innumerable forms. That something which is born or which will die is purely imaginary.†{Prior to Consciousness p.26} > > > > Marv Pat-a-cake..pat-a-cake...baker's man roll'em and roll'em just as fast as you can. rolling with laughter, ..b b.b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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