Guest guest Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 The sense of self emerges directly from the basic biological situation and the mnemonic loops that commence their growth at the inception of our days. Only during the course of the early period, when the caregiver and the child form the primary symbiotic unit, do we actually experience, actually and directly participate in, a single whole world whose features are predominately those found the writings of Leibniz and Jung. Moreover, only during the course of the early period with its all-encompassing, core dyadic relationship do we actually experience and internalize a whole world in which coincidence and concurrence is a central, regular feature of the environment. Over and over again, dozens of times a day, hundred of times each month, thousands of times each year, the care-giving parent, the mother, in a literal or generic sense of the term, fulfills the wishes and needs of the child - and not only fulfills them but does so in a timely fashion, as those wishes and needs emerge, as the child is hungry: the child cries out. What happens then - not necessarily at once but often at once and very close to at once under normal, healthy circumstances? The caregiver appears to nourish and soothe. The child is wet and uncomfortable; the child cries out. What happens then? The caregiver appears with dry garments and ministering hands. The child is injured; the child cries out. What happen then? The caregiver appears to comfort and " make better " . Consistently, diurnally, again and again and again, do we all experience these events directly, do we all participate in this " order " , this " pattern " this " correspondence " , this " regularity " , this " meaning " this " interrelation of all things " , for in this early " universe " the caregiver and the child are " all things " phenomenologically. Indeed only during this period of our existence are two so powerfully united into one (dual unity); only during this period are " all things " so concentrated into one mutually devoted pair - a single " solar system " with twin stars revolving around each other. The first months and years of life, in fact, are little else besides an unending series of meaningfull cross-connections, and unending series of physical and emotional attunements. It is the return to this primalstate that is sought in all religious and metaphysical pursuits. The key feature of the facilitating environment provided by the mother is her effort to shape the environment around the child's wishes, then intuit what the child wants and provide it. The infant's experience is one of scarcely missing a beat between desire and satisfaction, between the wish for a breast and its appearance, for example. The infant naturally assumes that his wishes produce the object of desire, that the breast, his blanket, in effect his entire world, is the product of his creation. The mother's provision and accommodation to the infant's wish creates the " moment of illusion " , the foundation upon which a healthy self develops. Thus the preestablished harmony of our actual lies, our actual experiences, is simply nature's creation of the integrated mother-child unit, through which the furtherance of the species well-being, the furtherance of the species existence, is more or less insured. It is adaptational necessity, biological, adaptational cunning in the service of the species continuation that preestablishes the only perfect or nearly perfect interrelational " harmony " we ever actually know on this planet. The mother with the babe nestled in her arms is the unconscious source of all philosophical-theological visions. One willfully attempts to restore the internalized caregiver by projecting the internalized caregiver upon the external world and reestablish the at-one-ment experienced in the early mnemonic loops. One reverts to, and attempts to restore the time in which the original care-giver, the mysterious some one or something, the wonderful presence was watching over it. It longs for the time when the environment and the its-self will remerge and it will experience the bliss that of unity once again. The uncanny coincidence, which can't be figured out and thus lulls the critical facility to sleep, is one's excuse for rearranging the world in accordance with one's infantile wishes. M D Faber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 24, 2009 Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > > > > > The sense of self emerges directly from the basic biological situation and the mnemonic loops that commence their growth at the inception of our days. > > Only during the course of the early period, when the caregiver and the child form the primary symbiotic unit, do we actually experience, actually and directly participate in, a single whole world whose features are predominately those found the writings of Leibniz and Jung. > > Moreover, only during the course of the early period with its all-encompassing, core dyadic relationship do we actually experience and internalize a whole world in which coincidence and concurrence is a central, regular feature of the environment. > > Over and over again, dozens of times a day, hundred of times each month, thousands of times each year, the care-giving parent, the mother, in a literal or generic sense of the term, fulfills the wishes and needs of the child - and not only fulfills them but does so in a timely fashion, as those wishes and needs emerge, as the child is hungry: the child cries out. > > What happens then - not necessarily at once but often at once and very close to at once under normal, healthy circumstances? The caregiver appears to nourish and soothe. > > The child is wet and uncomfortable; the child cries out. What happens then? > The caregiver appears with dry garments and ministering hands. The child is injured; the child cries out. What happen then? The caregiver appears to comfort and " make better " . > > Consistently, diurnally, again and again and again, do we all experience these events directly, do we all participate in this " order " , this " pattern " this " correspondence " , this " regularity " , this " meaning " this " interrelation of all things " , for in this early " universe " the caregiver and the child are " all things " phenomenologically. > > Indeed only during this period of our existence are two so powerfully united into one (dual unity); only during this period are " all things " so concentrated into one mutually devoted pair - a single " solar system " with twin stars revolving around each other. > > The first months and years of life, in fact, are little else besides an unending series of meaningfull cross-connections, and unending series of physical and emotional attunements. > > It is the return to this primalstate that is sought in all religious and metaphysical pursuits. > > The key feature of the facilitating environment provided by the mother is her effort to shape the environment around the child's wishes, then intuit what the child wants and provide it. > > The infant's experience is one of scarcely missing a beat between desire and satisfaction, between the wish for a breast and its appearance, for example. > > The infant naturally assumes that his wishes produce the object of desire, that the breast, his blanket, in effect his entire world, is the product of his creation. > > The mother's provision and accommodation to the infant's wish creates the " moment of illusion " , the foundation upon which a healthy self develops. > > Thus the preestablished harmony of our actual lies, our actual experiences, is simply nature's creation of the integrated mother-child unit, through which the furtherance of the species well-being, the furtherance of the species existence, is more or less insured. > > It is adaptational necessity, biological, adaptational cunning in the service of the species continuation that preestablishes the only perfect or nearly perfect interrelational " harmony " we ever actually know on this planet. > > The mother with the babe nestled in her arms is the unconscious source of all philosophical-theological visions. > > One willfully attempts to restore the internalized caregiver by projecting the internalized caregiver upon the external world and reestablish the at-one-ment experienced in the early mnemonic loops. > > One reverts to, and attempts to restore the time in which the original care-giver, the mysterious some one or something, the wonderful presence was watching over it. > > It longs for the time when the environment and the its-self will remerge and it will experience the bliss that of unity once again. > > The uncanny coincidence, which can't be figured out and thus lulls the critical facility to sleep, is one's excuse for rearranging the world in accordance with one's infantile wishes. > > > > > M D Faber whew! I'm glad to see that dummy's name attached to the above. as i was reading this bullshit.. i was getting more and more pissed off at you. i wanted to take a club out and hit your head with it. but now i see what you done.. you ol' cagey guy you.. you pinned it up on the board for the laughs. good one toom! :-) ..b b.b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 24, 2009 Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 > > whew! > > I'm glad to see that dummy's name attached to the above. > > as i was reading this bullshit.. > > i was getting more and more pissed off at you. > > i wanted to take a club out and hit your head with it. > > but now i see what you done.. > > you ol' cagey guy you.. > > you pinned it up on the board for the laughs. > > good one toom! > > :-) > > .b b.b. > I hear you.....and understand your angst. When the sense of separation gets a glimpse of where its belief in God comes from it can be like a cold shower. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 24, 2009 Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > > > > > whew! > > > > I'm glad to see that dummy's name attached to the above. > > > > as i was reading this bullshit.. > > > > i was getting more and more pissed off at you. > > > > i wanted to take a club out and hit your head with it. > > > > but now i see what you done.. > > > > you ol' cagey guy you.. > > > > you pinned it up on the board for the laughs. > > > > good one toom! > > > > :-) > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > I hear you.....and understand your angst. > > When the sense of separation gets a glimpse of where its belief in God comes from it can be like a cold shower. > > > toombaru belief in god? so the joke continues.. hahahahahaaaa! ok. pretty good one. but that's not quaking in angst pal.. that's just sh-shaking with laughter. at you..at god..at the shower...at me.. separation? i'd say surely you jest mr. toombaru.. but i'm just cutting myself up even more.. god that's funny! LOL! ..b b.b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 24, 2009 Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 before the self emerged you are saying that it is non existing. you are relating to self as an individual entity. we see the sun rising & setting but for the sun their is no rising or setting, brightness or darkness, it is always there. it is identifying with individual entity that creates wrong notions like birth & death, waking & sleeping, body & mind etc etc. self cannot be said to be existing or non existing. -mahesh toombaru2006 <lastrainNisargadatta Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 2:32:40 AM A Self Is Born The sense of self emerges directly from the basic biological situation and the mnemonic loops that commence their growth at the inception of our days.Only during the course of the early period, when the caregiver and the child form the primary symbiotic unit, do we actually experience, actually and directly participate in, a single whole world whose features are predominately those found the writings of Leibniz and Jung.Moreover, only during the course of the early period with its all-encompassing, core dyadic relationship do we actually experience and internalize a whole world in which coincidence and concurrence is a central, regular feature of the environment.Over and over again, dozens of times a day, hundred of times each month, thousands of times each year, the care-giving parent, the mother, in a literal or generic sense of the term, fulfills the wishes and needs of the child - and not only fulfills them but does so in a timely fashion, as those wishes and needs emerge, as the child is hungry: the child cries out.What happens then - not necessarily at once but often at once and very close to at once under normal, healthy circumstances? The caregiver appears to nourish and soothe.The child is wet and uncomfortable; the child cries out. What happens then?The caregiver appears with dry garments and ministering hands. The child is injured; the child cries out. What happen then? The caregiver appears to comfort and "make better".Consistently, diurnally, again and again and again, do we all experience these events directly, do we all participate in this "order", this "pattern" this "correspondence" , this "regularity" , this "meaning" this "interrelation of all things", for in this early "universe" the caregiver and the child are "all things" phenomenologically.Indeed only during this period of our existence are two so powerfully united into one (dual unity); only during this period are " all things" so concentrated into one mutually devoted pair - a single "solar system" with twin stars revolving around each other.The first months and years of life, in fact, are little else besides an unending series of meaningfull cross-connections, and unending series of physical and emotional attunements.It is the return to this primalstate that is sought in all religious and metaphysical pursuits.The key feature of the facilitating environment provided by the mother is her effort to shape the environment around the child's wishes, then intuit what the child wants and provide it.The infant's experience is one of scarcely missing a beat between desire and satisfaction, between the wish for a breast and its appearance, for example.The infant naturally assumes that his wishes produce the object of desire, that the breast, his blanket, in effect his entire world, is the product of his creation.The mother's provision and accommodation to the infant's wish creates the "moment of illusion", the foundation upon which a healthy self develops.Thus the preestablished harmony of our actual lies, our actual experiences, is simply nature's creation of the integrated mother-child unit, through which the furtherance of the species well-being, the furtherance of the species existence, is more or less insured.It is adaptational necessity, biological, adaptational cunning in the service of the species continuation that preestablishes the only perfect or nearly perfect interrelational "harmony" we ever actually know on this planet.The mother with the babe nestled in her arms is the unconscious source of all philosophical- theological visions.One willfully attempts to restore the internalized caregiver by projecting the internalized caregiver upon the external world and reestablish the at-one-ment experienced in the early mnemonic loops.One reverts to, and attempts to restore the time in which the original care-giver, the mysterious some one or something, the wonderful presence was watching over it.It longs for the time when the environment and the its-self will remerge and it will experience the bliss that of unity once again.The uncanny coincidence, which can't be figured out and thus lulls the critical facility to sleep, is one's excuse for rearranging the world in accordance with one's infantile wishes.M D Faber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 24, 2009 Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 Oh mahesh! i'm gonna love this! thanks a trillion! ..b b.b. Nisargadatta , Mahesh Kamat <mv.kamat wrote: > > before the self emerged you are saying that it is non existing. you are relating to self as an individual entity. we see the sun rising & setting but for the sun their is no rising or setting, brightness or darkness, it is always there. it is identifying with individual entity that creates wrong notions like birth & death, waking & sleeping, body & mind etc etc. self cannot be said to be existing or non existing. > -mahesh > > > ________________________________ > > toombaru2006 <lastrain > Nisargadatta > Tuesday, March 24, 2009 2:32:40 AM > A Self Is Born > > > > The sense of self emerges directly from the basic biological situation and the mnemonic loops that commence their growth at the inception of our days. > > Only during the course of the early period, when the caregiver and the child form the primary symbiotic unit, do we actually experience, actually and directly participate in, a single whole world whose features are predominately those found the writings of Leibniz and Jung. > > Moreover, only during the course of the early period with its all-encompassing, core dyadic relationship do we actually experience and internalize a whole world in which coincidence and concurrence is a central, regular feature of the environment. > > Over and over again, dozens of times a day, hundred of times each month, thousands of times each year, the care-giving parent, the mother, in a literal or generic sense of the term, fulfills the wishes and needs of the child - and not only fulfills them but does so in a timely fashion, as those wishes and needs emerge, as the child is hungry: the child cries out. > > What happens then - not necessarily at once but often at once and very close to at once under normal, healthy circumstances? The caregiver appears to nourish and soothe. > > The child is wet and uncomfortable; the child cries out. What happens then? > The caregiver appears with dry garments and ministering hands. The child is injured; the child cries out. What happen then? The caregiver appears to comfort and " make better " . > > Consistently, diurnally, again and again and again, do we all experience these events directly, do we all participate in this " order " , this " pattern " this " correspondence " , this " regularity " , this " meaning " this " interrelation of all things " , for in this early " universe " the caregiver and the child are " all things " phenomenologically. > > Indeed only during this period of our existence are two so powerfully united into one (dual unity); only during this period are " all things " so concentrated into one mutually devoted pair - a single " solar system " with twin stars revolving around each other. > > The first months and years of life, in fact, are little else besides an unending series of meaningfull cross-connections, and unending series of physical and emotional attunements. > > It is the return to this primalstate that is sought in all religious and metaphysical pursuits. > > The key feature of the facilitating environment provided by the mother is her effort to shape the environment around the child's wishes, then intuit what the child wants and provide it. > > The infant's experience is one of scarcely missing a beat between desire and satisfaction, between the wish for a breast and its appearance, for example. > > The infant naturally assumes that his wishes produce the object of desire, that the breast, his blanket, in effect his entire world, is the product of his creation. > > The mother's provision and accommodation to the infant's wish creates the " moment of illusion " , the foundation upon which a healthy self develops. > > Thus the preestablished harmony of our actual lies, our actual experiences, is simply nature's creation of the integrated mother-child unit, through which the furtherance of the species well-being, the furtherance of the species existence, is more or less insured. > > It is adaptational necessity, biological, adaptational cunning in the service of the species continuation that preestablishes the only perfect or nearly perfect interrelational " harmony " we ever actually know on this planet. > > The mother with the babe nestled in her arms is the unconscious source of all philosophical- theological visions. > > One willfully attempts to restore the internalized caregiver by projecting the internalized caregiver upon the external world and reestablish the at-one-ment experienced in the early mnemonic loops. > > One reverts to, and attempts to restore the time in which the original care-giver, the mysterious some one or something, the wonderful presence was watching over it. > > It longs for the time when the environment and the its-self will remerge and it will experience the bliss that of unity once again. > > The uncanny coincidence, which can't be figured out and thus lulls the critical facility to sleep, is one's excuse for rearranging the world in accordance with one's infantile wishes. > > M D Faber > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 24, 2009 Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 Nisargadatta , Mahesh Kamat <mv.kamat wrote: > > before the self emerged you are saying that it is non existing. you are relating to self as an individual entity. we see the sun rising & setting but for the sun their is no rising or setting, brightness or darkness, it is always there. it is identifying with individual entity that creates wrong notions like birth & death, waking & sleeping, body & mind etc etc. self cannot be said to be existing or non existing. > -mahesh > > Any " thing " cannot said to be existing or non-existing by a self that cannot be said to be existing or non-existing. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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