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Today as I woke up, laying in bed, shaking the nuts and bolts in my head,

I realized that bbb and toomba where right in saying that the expression consciousness

may be confusing. As both already stated that it is irrelevant, I must clarify

things at least to myself. Of course I will gladly listen to different opinions from the list members.

 

Krishnamurti uses the word "consciousness" as the conditioned aspect of the mind. Involves

things like envy, hatred, jealousy.... and mainly the idea of an inner observer as a catalyzer.

The difference between K's definition and Niz's is that to the former as soon as this inner

entity is transcended, the"status quo" is NOT anymore called as consciousness. K would say

that "now there is something else". In a dialogue with Bohm, and somewhere else, he will call this

something else as the "mind of mankind".

 

In the other hand Niz seems to keep the name consciousness to both conditions.

(I know that states, conditions, status quo are just words). He says that when the

center is transcended then "I am consciousness", or "I am all" - but still naming it as

consciousness. I see now why bbb said that as long as there are things and dogs,

there is consciousness.

 

Niz in fact uses the expression "I am this or that" as K's consciousness. The center

transcended Niz calls it "I am" (without this or that) as an equivalent to K's mind of mankind.

 

Now with this new light shinning upon the universe (c'mn bbb, its your turn), let me put my fighting

gloves on, and read the posts.

 

rgds

 

-geo-

 

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Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote:

>

> Today as I woke up, laying in bed, shaking the nuts and bolts in my head,

>

> I realized that bbb and toomba where right in saying that the expression

consciousness

>

> may be confusing. As both already stated that it is irrelevant, I must clarify

>

> things at least to myself. Of course I will gladly listen to different

opinions from the list members.

>

>

>

> Krishnamurti uses the word " consciousness " as the conditioned aspect of the

mind. Involves

>

> things like envy, hatred, jealousy.... and mainly the idea of an inner

observer as a catalyzer.

>

> The difference between K's definition and Niz's is that to the former as soon

as this inner

>

> entity is transcended, the " status quo " is NOT anymore called as consciousness.

K would say

>

> that " now there is something else " . In a dialogue with Bohm, and somewhere

else, he will call this

>

> something else as the " mind of mankind " .

>

>

>

> In the other hand Niz seems to keep the name consciousness to both conditions.

>

> (I know that states, conditions, status quo are just words). He says that when

the

>

> center is transcended then " I am consciousness " , or " I am all " - but still

naming it as

>

> consciousness. I see now why bbb said that as long as there are things and

dogs,

>

> there is consciousness.

>

>

>

> Niz in fact uses the expression " I am this or that " as K's consciousness. The

center

>

> transcended Niz calls it " I am " (without this or that) as an equivalent to K's

mind of mankind.

>

>

>

> Now with this new light shinning upon the universe (c'mn bbb, its your turn),

let me put my fighting

>

> gloves on, and read the posts.

>

>

>

> rgds

>

>

>

> -geo-

 

 

consciousness schmasciouness...

 

" what's in a name?

 

that which we call a rose..

 

by any other name would smell as sweet. "

 

but that name or any other is not what's what.

 

it's not " It " at all.

 

..b b.b.

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