Guest guest Posted May 2, 2009 Report Share Posted May 2, 2009 Most rationalists would dismiss any divination method as mere superstition, and if the believers in divination techniques claim that they work always, and for everyone, that certainly, smells like BS. From a rational point of view, there is no more valid reasons to say that stars and planets influence our personality and behavior than to say a thimble worth of sand would. That is no idle comparison, there are more stars in the universe than grains of sand in all the beaches in the world. So even if you accept the premise that, somehow, stars affect personality and behavior, there is no reason to think that knowing the position of a certain few, would be a good predictor of the influence of the whole. So as a scientific prediction method astrology sucks, but there is another way to look at this, not as an infallible method, but as a language tool, a call to conjure the wisdom of the deepest mind. The unconscious knows many things our conscious minds don't, and if called by a name that resonates, may come to us and tell. As calling Jack, won't make Charles respond, using astrology doesn't work for people whose unconscious uses the language of Taros cards. As birds have different calls to lure a mate, different minds have different calls to summon the unknown to speak. For me, it was the I Chin. I only used it for moments of great doubt in matters of great importance to me, moments in which, the outcome was less important than acting out the dictates of fate. Looking back it seems that I could always extricate the right direction to take out of the cryptic Chinese verses. No other method worked for me, it was the only language my unconscious spoke. Now, there are no great questions to ask, no great doubts, and the unconscious steers the mind without bothering to explain. Yes, divinations methods work, for some, sometimes. Pete http://cerosoul.wordpress.com http://awakefiction.wordpress.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 3, 2009 Report Share Posted May 3, 2009 at last something new! to me, of course, hahaha! I Ching....sounds like Ipod, Iphone, and so on....however, like almost always, a fantasic post to begin a discussion here at the forum! Question: what is the unconscious > So as a scientific prediction method astrology sucks, but there > is another way to look at this, not as an infallible method, but > as a language tool, a call to conjure the wisdom of the deepest > mind. The unconscious knows many things our conscious minds > don't, and if called by a name that resonates, may come to us > and tell. that's almost esoteric! Conjure the wisdom of the deepest mind! Jung? There is no wisdom to conjure or whatever. Why should wisdom exist and for what and whom? The unconscious news nothing! If it would know something, it wouldn't be the unconscious. Things in the unconscious! Why should there be things in the unconscious and for what? Unconscious speaking? Telling stories, telling things? You're a romantic, Pete. And, you know it. What would this world be without romantics? The purest shit (reinste Scheisse), in my opinion...or hell? Resonating names, nice! This little thing called love; Jesus was right! > As calling Jack, won't make Charles respond, using astrology > doesn't work for people whose unconscious uses the language > of Taros cards. As birds have different calls to lure a mate, > different minds have different calls to summon the unknown > to speak. For me, it was the I Chin. I only used it for moments > of great doubt in matters of great importance to me, moments > in which, the outcome was less important than acting out the > dictates of fate. Looking back it seems that I could always > extricate the right direction to take out of the cryptic Chinese > verses. No other method worked for me, it was the only language > my unconscious spoke. > > Now, there are no great questions to ask, no great doubts, and > the unconscious steers the mind without bothering to explain. > > Yes, divinations methods work, for some, sometimes. I ching, divination? What did you smoke, Pete? Why don't you post the verses? Or, better post, if you like, the verses, which have been the most important for you, for your life, for your decisions. We might be able to gain insight in your unconscious. And then? You are the unconscious. Why don't you leave it in peace? Why don't I leave it peace. Is the unconscious interested in us? I don't think so. There are no personal matter...(it) is impersonal, non-personal...like the relationship between the flower and the bee. You speaks past tense. Does your unconscious not speak anymore? Have you silenced it? have you ever seen a flower killing a bee? While writing, you and me, create unconscious. You see in my writing the echo to your post. The outcome wasn't important, Pete? Be sincere and honest! Right direction? This is just fantastic, terrific, Pete! Please, tell me how the wrong direction would have looked like! Have you read " el diablo ilustrado " ? Cuba might be now the most beautiful country of the world. Have you been happy in the US? I know you're kidding. But, why are you kidding? I don't know! Do you know? Love, Kip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 3, 2009 Report Share Posted May 3, 2009 Nisargadatta , " kipalmazy " <kipalmazy wrote: > > at last something new! to me, of course, hahaha! I Ching....sounds like Ipod, Iphone, and so on....however, like almost always, a fantasic post to begin a discussion here at the forum! > > Question: what is the unconscious > > In order for there to be a unconscious or sub-conscious......there would have to be a conscious entity......and there isn't. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 3, 2009 Report Share Posted May 3, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " kipalmazy " <kipalmazy@> wrote: > > > > at last something new! to me, of course, hahaha! I Ching....sounds like Ipod, Iphone, and so on....however, like almost always, a fantasic post to begin a discussion here at the forum! > > > > Question: what is the unconscious > > > > > > > > In order for there to be a unconscious or sub-conscious......there would have to be a conscious entity......and there isn't. > > > > toombaru damn straight! and there isn't an unconscious entity entity either. there isn't anything to be isn't. ..b b.b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 3, 2009 Report Share Posted May 3, 2009 Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " kipalmazy " <kipalmazy@> wrote: > > > > > > at last something new! to me, of course, hahaha! I Ching....sounds like Ipod, Iphone, and so on....however, like almost always, a fantasic post to begin a discussion here at the forum! > > > > > > Question: what is the unconscious > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In order for there to be a unconscious or sub-conscious......there would have to be a conscious entity......and there isn't. > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > damn straight! > > and there isn't an unconscious entity entity either. > > there isn't anything to be isn't. > > .b b.b. > Hey......There's another great T-shirt. :-) toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 3, 2009 Report Share Posted May 3, 2009 Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " kipalmazy " <kipalmazy@> wrote: > > > > > > at last something new! to me, of course, hahaha! I Ching....sounds like Ipod, Iphone, and so on....however, like almost always, a fantasic post to begin a discussion here at the forum! > > > > > > Question: what is the unconscious > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In order for there to be a unconscious or sub-conscious......there would have to be a conscious entity......and there isn't. > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > damn straight! > > and there isn't an unconscious entity entity either. > > there isn't anything to be isn't. > > .b b.b. isn't that right? there is no is ising. just pissing. pssssssss.... listen! ..b b.b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 3, 2009 Report Share Posted May 3, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " kipalmazy " <kipalmazy@> wrote: > > > > > > > > at last something new! to me, of course, hahaha! I Ching....sounds like Ipod, Iphone, and so on....however, like almost always, a fantasic post to begin a discussion here at the forum! > > > > > > > > Question: what is the unconscious > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In order for there to be a unconscious or sub-conscious......there would have to be a conscious entity......and there isn't. > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > damn straight! > > > > and there isn't an unconscious entity entity either. > > > > there isn't anything to be isn't. > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > Hey......There's another great T-shirt. > > > :-) > > toombaru > cool.. 8-) hollow on hollow. :-) ..b b.b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 3, 2009 Report Share Posted May 3, 2009 Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " kipalmazy " <kipalmazy@> wrote: > > > > > > > > at last something new! to me, of course, hahaha! I Ching....sounds like Ipod, Iphone, and so on....however, like almost always, a fantasic post to begin a discussion here at the forum! > > > > > > > > Question: what is the unconscious > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In order for there to be a unconscious or sub-conscious......there would have to be a conscious entity......and there isn't. > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > damn straight! > > > > and there isn't an unconscious entity entity either. > > > > there isn't anything to be isn't. > > > > .b b.b. > > > isn't that right? > > there is no is ising. > > just pissing. > > pssssssss.... > > listen! > > .b b.b. > That's the sound of time running out. :-0 toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 3, 2009 Report Share Posted May 3, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " kipalmazy " <kipalmazy@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > at last something new! to me, of course, hahaha! I Ching....sounds like Ipod, Iphone, and so on....however, like almost always, a fantasic post to begin a discussion here at the forum! > > > > > > > > > > Question: what is the unconscious > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In order for there to be a unconscious or sub-conscious......there would have to be a conscious entity......and there isn't. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > damn straight! > > > > > > and there isn't an unconscious entity entity either. > > > > > > there isn't anything to be isn't. > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > isn't that right? > > > > there is no is ising. > > > > just pissing. > > > > pssssssss.... > > > > listen! > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > That's the sound of time running out. > > > > :-0 > > > > > toombaru i ran into it when i heard that piss. i got through. it's all gone now.. most of the " time' anyway. LOL! ..b b.b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 3, 2009 Report Share Posted May 3, 2009 Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " kipalmazy " <kipalmazy@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > at last something new! to me, of course, hahaha! I Ching....sounds like Ipod, Iphone, and so on....however, like almost always, a fantasic post to begin a discussion here at the forum! > > > > > > > > > > Question: what is the unconscious > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In order for there to be a unconscious or sub-conscious......there would have to be a conscious entity......and there isn't. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > damn straight! > > > > > > and there isn't an unconscious entity entity either. > > > > > > there isn't anything to be isn't. > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > > > > > > Hey......There's another great T-shirt. > > > > > > :-) > > > > toombaru > > > > > cool.. > > 8-) > > hollow on hollow. > > :-) > > .b b.b. > The absence of the absence of the absence. Today is Nate's seventh birthday party. He spent the night and we played wii games. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 3, 2009 Report Share Posted May 3, 2009 Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " kipalmazy " <kipalmazy@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > at last something new! to me, of course, hahaha! I Ching....sounds like Ipod, Iphone, and so on....however, like almost always, a fantasic post to begin a discussion here at the forum! > > > > > > > > > > > > Question: what is the unconscious > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In order for there to be a unconscious or sub-conscious......there would have to be a conscious entity......and there isn't. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > damn straight! > > > > > > > > and there isn't an unconscious entity entity either. > > > > > > > > there isn't anything to be isn't. > > > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > > > > isn't that right? > > > > > > there is no is ising. > > > > > > just pissing. > > > > > > pssssssss.... > > > > > > listen! > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > > > > > > That's the sound of time running out. > > > > > > > > :-0 > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > i ran into it when i heard that piss. > > i got through. > > it's all gone now.. > > most of the " time' anyway. > > LOL! > > .b b.b. > When......and if the time comes.......there is only one " decision " that the self can make. There is a cross-roads in the conceptual overlay. One path leads to conceptual oblivion.....the other to oblivion. Most pull back and spend the rest of their life talking about what they saw. Ramana decided to go into the death experience.....and we know what happend to " him " . :-0 toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 3, 2009 Report Share Posted May 3, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " kipalmazy " <kipalmazy@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > at last something new! to me, of course, hahaha! I Ching....sounds like Ipod, Iphone, and so on....however, like almost always, a fantasic post to begin a discussion here at the forum! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Question: what is the unconscious > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In order for there to be a unconscious or sub-conscious......there would have to be a conscious entity......and there isn't. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > damn straight! > > > > > > > > > > and there isn't an unconscious entity entity either. > > > > > > > > > > there isn't anything to be isn't. > > > > > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > > > > > > > isn't that right? > > > > > > > > there is no is ising. > > > > > > > > just pissing. > > > > > > > > pssssssss.... > > > > > > > > listen! > > > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's the sound of time running out. > > > > > > > > > > > > :-0 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > i ran into it when i heard that piss. > > > > i got through. > > > > it's all gone now.. > > > > most of the " time' anyway. > > > > LOL! > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > > When......and if the time comes.......there is only one " decision " that the self > can make. > > There is a cross-roads in the conceptual overlay. > > One path leads to conceptual oblivion.....the other to oblivion. > > Most pull back and spend the rest of their life talking about what they saw. > > Ramana decided to go into the death experience.....and we know what happend to " him " . > > > > > :-0 > > > > toombaru > He never dated a girl or played poker after that. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 3, 2009 Report Share Posted May 3, 2009 - toombaru2006 Nisargadatta Sunday, May 03, 2009 12:43 PM Re: Divination & the unconscious Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " kipalmazy " <kipalmazy@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > at last something new! to me, of course, hahaha! I > > > > > > Ching....sounds like Ipod, Iphone, and so on....however, like > > > > > > almost always, a fantasic post to begin a discussion here at the > > > > > > forum! > > > > > > > > > > > > Question: what is the unconscious > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In order for there to be a unconscious or sub-conscious......there > > > > > would have to be a conscious entity......and there isn't. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > damn straight! > > > > > > > > and there isn't an unconscious entity entity either. > > > > > > > > there isn't anything to be isn't. > > > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > > > > isn't that right? > > > > > > there is no is ising. > > > > > > just pissing. > > > > > > pssssssss.... > > > > > > listen! > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > > > > > > That's the sound of time running out. > > > > > > > > :-0 > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > i ran into it when i heard that piss. > > i got through. > > it's all gone now.. > > most of the " time' anyway. > > LOL! > > .b b.b. > When......and if the time comes.......there is only one " decision " that the self can make. There is a cross-roads in the conceptual overlay. One path leads to conceptual oblivion.....the other to oblivion. Most pull back and spend the rest of their life talking about what they saw. Ramana decided to go into the death experience.....and we know what happend to " him " . :-0 toombaru We dont know what happened to him. -geo- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 3, 2009 Report Share Posted May 3, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > toombaru2006 > Nisargadatta > Sunday, May 03, 2009 12:43 PM > Re: Divination & the unconscious > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " kipalmazy " <kipalmazy@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > at last something new! to me, of course, hahaha! I > > > > > > > Ching....sounds like Ipod, Iphone, and so on....however, like > > > > > > > almost always, a fantasic post to begin a discussion here at the > > > > > > > forum! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Question: what is the unconscious > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In order for there to be a unconscious or sub-conscious......there > > > > > > would have to be a conscious entity......and there isn't. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > damn straight! > > > > > > > > > > and there isn't an unconscious entity entity either. > > > > > > > > > > there isn't anything to be isn't. > > > > > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > > > > > > > isn't that right? > > > > > > > > there is no is ising. > > > > > > > > just pissing. > > > > > > > > pssssssss.... > > > > > > > > listen! > > > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's the sound of time running out. > > > > > > > > > > > > :-0 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > i ran into it when i heard that piss. > > > > i got through. > > > > it's all gone now.. > > > > most of the " time' anyway. > > > > LOL! > > > > .b b.b. > > > > When......and if the time comes.......there is only one " decision " that the > self > can make. > > There is a cross-roads in the conceptual overlay. > > One path leads to conceptual oblivion.....the other to oblivion. > > Most pull back and spend the rest of their life talking about what they saw. > > Ramana decided to go into the death experience.....and we know what happend > to " him " . > > :-0 > > toombaru > > We dont know what happened to him. > -geo- > He lost his Ramananess.....and never found it. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 3, 2009 Report Share Posted May 3, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > toombaru2006 > > Nisargadatta > > Sunday, May 03, 2009 12:43 PM > > Re: Divination & the unconscious > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " kipalmazy " <kipalmazy@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > at last something new! to me, of course, hahaha! I > > > > > > > > Ching....sounds like Ipod, Iphone, and so on....however, like > > > > > > > > almost always, a fantasic post to begin a discussion here at the > > > > > > > > forum! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Question: what is the unconscious > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In order for there to be a unconscious or sub-conscious......there > > > > > > > would have to be a conscious entity......and there isn't. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > damn straight! > > > > > > > > > > > > and there isn't an unconscious entity entity either. > > > > > > > > > > > > there isn't anything to be isn't. > > > > > > > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > isn't that right? > > > > > > > > > > there is no is ising. > > > > > > > > > > just pissing. > > > > > > > > > > pssssssss.... > > > > > > > > > > listen! > > > > > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's the sound of time running out. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > :-0 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > i ran into it when i heard that piss. > > > > > > i got through. > > > > > > it's all gone now.. > > > > > > most of the " time' anyway. > > > > > > LOL! > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > > When......and if the time comes.......there is only one " decision " that the > > self > > can make. > > > > There is a cross-roads in the conceptual overlay. > > > > One path leads to conceptual oblivion.....the other to oblivion. > > > > Most pull back and spend the rest of their life talking about what they saw. > > > > Ramana decided to go into the death experience.....and we know what happend > > to " him " . > > > > :-0 > > > > toombaru > > > > We dont know what happened to him. > > -geo- > > > > > > He lost his Ramananess.....and never found it. > > > toombaru > Well, my Annanessness keeps following me around just like Mary's little lambs. So Toomie, who won? Hope you gave Natie a big hug & a kiss from me, your ever-loving Wendy. ;-) ~A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 3, 2009 Report Share Posted May 3, 2009 Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " <kailashana wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > toombaru2006 > > > Nisargadatta > > > Sunday, May 03, 2009 12:43 PM > > > Re: Divination & the unconscious > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " kipalmazy " <kipalmazy@> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > at last something new! to me, of course, hahaha! I > > > > > > > > > Ching....sounds like Ipod, Iphone, and so on....however, like > > > > > > > > > almost always, a fantasic post to begin a discussion here at the > > > > > > > > > forum! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Question: what is the unconscious > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In order for there to be a unconscious or sub-conscious......there > > > > > > > > would have to be a conscious entity......and there isn't. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > damn straight! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and there isn't an unconscious entity entity either. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there isn't anything to be isn't. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > isn't that right? > > > > > > > > > > > > there is no is ising. > > > > > > > > > > > > just pissing. > > > > > > > > > > > > pssssssss.... > > > > > > > > > > > > listen! > > > > > > > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's the sound of time running out. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > :-0 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > i ran into it when i heard that piss. > > > > > > > > i got through. > > > > > > > > it's all gone now.. > > > > > > > > most of the " time' anyway. > > > > > > > > LOL! > > > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > > > > > When......and if the time comes.......there is only one " decision " that the > > > self > > > can make. > > > > > > There is a cross-roads in the conceptual overlay. > > > > > > One path leads to conceptual oblivion.....the other to oblivion. > > > > > > Most pull back and spend the rest of their life talking about what they saw. > > > > > > Ramana decided to go into the death experience.....and we know what happend > > > to " him " . > > > > > > :-0 > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > We dont know what happened to him. > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > He lost his Ramananess.....and never found it. > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > Well, my Annanessness keeps following me around just > like Mary's little lambs. > Until death.....there remains a connection to the dream of separation. In some it is a cord........in a few....the tiniest thread. > So Toomie, who won? One won. :-) > > Hope you gave Natie a big hug & a kiss from me, your > ever-loving Wendy. ;-) > > ~A > In the early morning.......he comes to lay between us.......we all go back to sleep..... It is unspeakably grand. I will give him a hug for you. :-) Love t. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 3, 2009 Report Share Posted May 3, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " <kailashana@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > toombaru2006 > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > Sunday, May 03, 2009 12:43 PM > > > > Re: Divination & the unconscious > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " kipalmazy " <kipalmazy@> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > at last something new! to me, of course, hahaha! I > > > > > > > > > > Ching....sounds like Ipod, Iphone, and so on....however, like > > > > > > > > > > almost always, a fantasic post to begin a discussion here at the > > > > > > > > > > forum! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Question: what is the unconscious > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In order for there to be a unconscious or sub-conscious......there > > > > > > > > > would have to be a conscious entity......and there isn't. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > damn straight! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and there isn't an unconscious entity entity either. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there isn't anything to be isn't. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > isn't that right? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there is no is ising. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > just pissing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pssssssss.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > listen! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's the sound of time running out. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > :-0 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i ran into it when i heard that piss. > > > > > > > > > > i got through. > > > > > > > > > > it's all gone now.. > > > > > > > > > > most of the " time' anyway. > > > > > > > > > > LOL! > > > > > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > > > > > > > > When......and if the time comes.......there is only one " decision " that the > > > > self > > > > can make. > > > > > > > > There is a cross-roads in the conceptual overlay. > > > > > > > > One path leads to conceptual oblivion.....the other to oblivion. > > > > > > > > Most pull back and spend the rest of their life talking about what they saw. > > > > > > > > Ramana decided to go into the death experience.....and we know what happend > > > > to " him " . > > > > > > > > :-0 > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > We dont know what happened to him. > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He lost his Ramananess.....and never found it. > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > Well, my Annanessness keeps following me around just > > like Mary's little lambs. > > > > > > Until death.....there remains a connection to the dream of separation. > > In some it is a cord........in a few....the tiniest thread. > > > So Toomie, who won? One won. > > :-) > > > > > > > > > Hope you gave Natie a big hug & a kiss from me, your > > ever-loving Wendy. ;-) > > > > ~A > > > > > > > In the early morning.......he comes to lay between us.......we all go back to sleep..... > > It is unspeakably grand. > > > > > > I will give him a hug for you. > > > :-) > > > Love > > t. > There are some folks who bring tears to my eyes. That unspeakable grandness that you speak of is immediately known and felt as if for the first time. Thank you for being you. And thank you for taking me there. Or is it here? Never mind... nothing ever Happened, right? Love ~~~~* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 3, 2009 Report Share Posted May 3, 2009 Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " <kailashana wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " <kailashana@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > toombaru2006 > > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > > Sunday, May 03, 2009 12:43 PM > > > > > Re: Divination & the unconscious > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " kipalmazy " <kipalmazy@> > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > at last something new! to me, of course, hahaha! I > > > > > > > > > > > Ching....sounds like Ipod, Iphone, and so on....however, like > > > > > > > > > > > almost always, a fantasic post to begin a discussion here at the > > > > > > > > > > > forum! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Question: what is the unconscious > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In order for there to be a unconscious or sub-conscious......there > > > > > > > > > > would have to be a conscious entity......and there isn't. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > damn straight! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and there isn't an unconscious entity entity either. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there isn't anything to be isn't. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > isn't that right? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there is no is ising. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > just pissing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pssssssss.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > listen! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's the sound of time running out. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > :-0 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i ran into it when i heard that piss. > > > > > > > > > > > > i got through. > > > > > > > > > > > > it's all gone now.. > > > > > > > > > > > > most of the " time' anyway. > > > > > > > > > > > > LOL! > > > > > > > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When......and if the time comes.......there is only one " decision " that the > > > > > self > > > > > can make. > > > > > > > > > > There is a cross-roads in the conceptual overlay. > > > > > > > > > > One path leads to conceptual oblivion.....the other to oblivion. > > > > > > > > > > Most pull back and spend the rest of their life talking about what they saw. > > > > > > > > > > Ramana decided to go into the death experience.....and we know what happend > > > > > to " him " . > > > > > > > > > > :-0 > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > We dont know what happened to him. > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He lost his Ramananess.....and never found it. > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, my Annanessness keeps following me around just > > > like Mary's little lambs. > > > > > > > > > > > Until death.....there remains a connection to the dream of separation. > > > > In some it is a cord........in a few....the tiniest thread. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So Toomie, who won? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > One won. > > > > :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hope you gave Natie a big hug & a kiss from me, your > > > ever-loving Wendy. ;-) > > > > > > ~A > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the early morning.......he comes to lay between us.......we all go back to sleep..... > > > > It is unspeakably grand. > > > > > > > > > > > > I will give him a hug for you. > > > > > > :-) > > > > > > Love > > > > t. > > > > > > There are some folks who bring tears to my eyes. That > unspeakable grandness that you speak of is immediately > known and felt as if for the first time. > > > ~~~~* > It's all and always for the first time. LOL toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 3, 2009 Report Share Posted May 3, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > > It's all and always for the first time. > > > LOL > > > > > toombaru > I knew you'd say just that. As if... lol. ~A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 3, 2009 Report Share Posted May 3, 2009 Nisargadatta , " kipalmazy " <kipalmazy wrote: > >K: at last something new! to me, of course, hahaha! I Ching....sounds like Ipod, Iphone, and so on....however, like almost always, a fantasic post to begin a discussion here at the forum! P: Thanks. It was written for a poster at another list, who believes in astrology. It was not designed to make unbelievers believe, but to scale down the faith in methods that, if they work at all, is because they provide a language for one part of your brain to share information with your cognitive center. > >K: Question: what is the unconscious P: For you, at your age, perhaps, the conflict between your hormones, and your image of yourself as a moral responsible family man. It's just a word for whatever we don't know, or chose to ignore about our bodies and brains. > >K: I ching, divination? What did you smoke, Pete? Why don't you post the verses? Or, better post, if you like, the verses, which have been the most important for you, for your life, for your decisions. We might be able to gain insight in your unconscious. P: Truly, I don't remember the verses that made the information needed at the time to become conscious. And you need insight into your unconscious, not mine. K: And then? You are the unconscious. Why don't you leave it in peace? P: I have! No questions to asks so far. K:Please, tell me how the wrong direction would have looked like! P: It would have looked like unhappiness, frustration, a sense of a wasted life. Have you read " el diablo ilustrado " ? Cuba might be now the most beautiful country of the world. Have you been happy in the US? P: I'm very happy in the US. No regrets here, no desire to see Cuba. I have no need for Cuba, nor Cubans. > K: I know you're kidding. But, why are you kidding? P: I rolled a ball on the ground, and playful puppies chase after it. Puppies love to chase things! It's fun. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 4, 2009 Report Share Posted May 4, 2009 Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " kipalmazy " <kipalmazy@> wrote: > > > >K: at last something new! to me, of course, hahaha! I Ching....sounds like Ipod, Iphone, and so on....however, like almost always, a fantasic post to begin a discussion here at the forum! > > P: Thanks. It was written for a poster at another > list, who believes in astrology. It was not designed > to make unbelievers believe, but to scale down the > faith in methods that, if they work at all, is because > they provide a language for one part of your brain > to share information with your cognitive center. > > > > >K: Question: what is the unconscious > > P: For you, at your age, perhaps, the conflict between > your hormones, and your image of yourself as > a moral responsible family man. It's just a > word for whatever we don't know, or chose to ignore > about our bodies and brains. > > > > >K: I ching, divination? What did you smoke, Pete? Why don't you post the verses? Or, better post, if you like, the verses, which have been the most important for you, for your life, for your decisions. We might be able to gain insight in your unconscious. > > P: Truly, I don't remember the verses that made > the information needed at the time to become conscious. > And you need insight into your unconscious, not mine. > > > > K: And then? You are the unconscious. Why don't you leave it in peace? > > P: I have! No questions to asks so far. > > > K:Please, tell me how the wrong direction would have looked like! > > P: It would have looked like unhappiness, > frustration, a sense of a wasted life. > > Have you read " el diablo ilustrado " ? Cuba might be now the most beautiful country of the world. Have you been happy in the US? > > P: I'm very happy in the US. No regrets here, > no desire to see Cuba. I have no need for Cuba, > nor Cubans. > > > K: I know you're kidding. But, why are you kidding? > > P: I rolled a ball on the ground, and playful puppies > chase after it. Puppies love to chase things! It's fun. > > > Play functions to build their predator skills. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 4, 2009 Report Share Posted May 4, 2009 > K:Please, tell me how the wrong direction would have looked like! > > P: It would have looked like unhappiness, > frustration, a sense of a wasted life. Hi Pete, Did " I Ching " lead you to a happy, successful and fulfilled life? Do you think the unconscious is prior to language? Kip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 4, 2009 Report Share Posted May 4, 2009 .....just a few word on Lacan's take on the unconscious: Lacan's unconscious is structured like a language, which gives language a key role in construction our picture of the world, but also allows the unconscious to enter into that understanding and dissolve essential distinctions between fantasy and reality. There are no primordial archetypes (Jung) or entities beyond the reach of language (Freud) or logical-sensorimotor structures (Piaget)..... warm regards, Kip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 4, 2009 Report Share Posted May 4, 2009 Nisargadatta , " kipalmazy " <kipalmazy wrote: > > ....just a few word on Lacan's take on the unconscious: > > Lacan's unconscious is structured like a language, which gives language a key role in construction our picture of the world, but also allows the unconscious to enter into that understanding and dissolve essential distinctions between fantasy and reality. There are no primordial archetypes (Jung) or entities beyond the reach of language (Freud) or logical-sensorimotor structures (Piaget)..... > > warm regards, > Kip where was Lacan when he stood outside the unconscious.. in order to make such an " objective " observation? it may be that the disembodied Lacan's " own " unconsciousness.. had dissolved all fantasy and reality into bullshit. which required a " letting-out " .. lest his empty-head burst open under the pressure. sort of did anyway huh? ..b b.b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 4, 2009 Report Share Posted May 4, 2009 Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " kipalmazy " <kipalmazy@> wrote: > > > > ....just a few word on Lacan's take on the unconscious: > > > > Lacan's unconscious is structured like a language, which gives language a key role in construction our picture of the world, but also allows the unconscious to enter into that understanding and dissolve essential distinctions between fantasy and reality. There are no primordial archetypes (Jung) or entities beyond the reach of language (Freud) or logical-sensorimotor structures (Piaget)..... > > > > warm regards, > > Kip > > > > > where was Lacan when he stood outside the unconscious.. > > in order to make such an " objective " observation? > > it may be that the disembodied Lacan's " own " unconsciousness.. > > had dissolved all fantasy and reality into bullshit. > > which required a " letting-out " .. > > lest his empty-head burst open under the pressure. > > sort of did anyway huh? > > .b b.b. Hi, Lacan's take on the unconscious is simple. The ego, according to Lacan, can never take the place of the unconscious, or empty it out, or control it, because, for Lacan, the ego or " I " self is only an illusion, a product of the unconscious itself. In Lacanese, the unconscious is the ground of all being. You don't need to stay always outside something to make an observation about it. Subjective observations are OK, too. Empirical models can also work. Yours, Kip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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