Guest guest Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 You can meditate in bed, and it's great. Bed is no longer for sleep and sex. Definitely, bed is not for thinking, you can think better while sitting , or on your feet. If you fall sleep while paying attention to being conscious, chances are you will awake aware of a presence behind consciousness itself. This is my version of Yoga Nidra, but Tim has another, you might like to try: http://timrowe.co.uk/ http://freeyoganidra.co.uk/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6 wrote: > > You can meditate in bed, and it's great. > Bed is no longer for sleep and sex. > Definitely, bed is not for thinking, you > can think better while sitting , or on > your feet. > > If you fall sleep while paying attention > to being conscious, chances are you will > awake aware of a presence behind consciousness > itself. This is my version of Yoga Nidra, but Tim > has another, you might like to try: > > http://timrowe.co.uk/ > http://freeyoganidra.co.uk/ > Pete, The " presence behind consciousness itself " is the " will " to hold on to paying attenion to being conscious. Werner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote: > > > > You can meditate in bed, and it's great. > > Bed is no longer for sleep and sex. > > Definitely, bed is not for thinking, you > > can think better while sitting , or on > > your feet. > > > > If you fall sleep while paying attention > > to being conscious, chances are you will > > awake aware of a presence behind consciousness > > itself. This is my version of Yoga Nidra, but Tim > > has another, you might like to try: > > > > http://timrowe.co.uk/ > > http://freeyoganidra.co.uk/ > > > > > Pete, > > The " presence behind consciousness itself " is the " will " to hold on to paying attenion to being conscious. > > Werner P: Werner, trust me, I'm not putting you on, there is a presence that can be felt as clearly as sunlight, which shows up, sometimes, when awakening. What does it mean? It let's us know there is something beyond content, and sensory input. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote: > > > > > > You can meditate in bed, and it's great. > > > Bed is no longer for sleep and sex. > > > Definitely, bed is not for thinking, you > > > can think better while sitting , or on > > > your feet. > > > > > > If you fall sleep while paying attention > > > to being conscious, chances are you will > > > awake aware of a presence behind consciousness > > > itself. This is my version of Yoga Nidra, but Tim > > > has another, you might like to try: > > > > > > http://timrowe.co.uk/ > > > http://freeyoganidra.co.uk/ > > > > > > > > > Pete, > > > > The " presence behind consciousness itself " is the " will " to hold on to paying attenion to being conscious. > > > > Werner > > P: Werner, trust me, I'm not putting you on, > there is a presence that can be felt as clearly > as sunlight, which shows up, sometimes, when > awakening. What does it mean? It let's us know > there is something beyond content, and sensory > input. > > > Hi Pete, No need to ask me to trust you, I already do it. But, when it comes to questions concerning consciousness I only rely on my self. As you might remember some years ago I had this surprising realization of my own non-exsistence and during that experience all what could be called a " presence " was gone. That's why I am so fond of Niz's expression that one is the " unborn " . Later that " presence " returned and it still is active. I call it the " will " . It is this " will " which creates this constant illusion of being a separate entity. Werner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote: > > > > > > > > You can meditate in bed, and it's great. > > > > Bed is no longer for sleep and sex. > > > > Definitely, bed is not for thinking, you > > > > can think better while sitting , or on > > > > your feet. > > > > > > > > If you fall sleep while paying attention > > > > to being conscious, chances are you will > > > > awake aware of a presence behind consciousness > > > > itself. This is my version of Yoga Nidra, but Tim > > > > has another, you might like to try: > > > > > > > > http://timrowe.co.uk/ > > > > http://freeyoganidra.co.uk/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pete, > > > > > > The " presence behind consciousness itself " is the " will " to hold on to paying attenion to being conscious. > > > > > > Werner > > > > P: Werner, trust me, I'm not putting you on, > > there is a presence that can be felt as clearly > > as sunlight, which shows up, sometimes, when > > awakening. What does it mean? It let's us know > > there is something beyond content, and sensory > > input. > > > > > > > > Hi Pete, > > No need to ask me to trust you, I already do it. > > But, when it comes to questions concerning consciousness I only rely on my self. > > As you might remember some years ago I had this surprising realization of my own non-exsistence and during that experience all what could be called a " presence " was gone. That's why I am so fond of Niz's expression that one is the " unborn " . > > Later that " presence " returned and it still is active. I call it the " will " . It is this " will " which creates this constant illusion of being a separate entity. > > Werner it's very successful at that. thank god almighty! werner is a separate entity... we are not liable nor guilty nor part of at all. this is the bliss that passeth all human understanding. ..b b.b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 - Werner Woehr Nisargadatta Wednesday, May 13, 2009 2:04 PM Re: Yoga Nidra Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote: > > > > > > You can meditate in bed, and it's great. > > > Bed is no longer for sleep and sex. > > > Definitely, bed is not for thinking, you > > > can think better while sitting , or on > > > your feet. > > > > > > If you fall sleep while paying attention > > > to being conscious, chances are you will > > > awake aware of a presence behind consciousness > > > itself. This is my version of Yoga Nidra, but Tim > > > has another, you might like to try: > > > > > > http://timrowe.co.uk/ > > > http://freeyoganidra.co.uk/ > > > > > > > > > Pete, > > > > The " presence behind consciousness itself " is the " will " to hold on to > > paying attenion to being conscious. > > > > Werner > > P: Werner, trust me, I'm not putting you on, > there is a presence that can be felt as clearly > as sunlight, which shows up, sometimes, when > awakening. What does it mean? It let's us know > there is something beyond content, and sensory > input. > > > Hi Pete, No need to ask me to trust you, I already do it. But, when it comes to questions concerning consciousness I only rely on my self. As you might remember some years ago I had this surprising realization of my own non-exsistence and during that experience all what could be called a " presence " was gone. That's why I am so fond of Niz's expression that one is the " unborn " . Later that " presence " returned and it still is active. I call it the " will " . It is this " will " which creates this constant illusion of being a separate entity. Werner You had this " experience " of nothingness. It never happened again? -geo- avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090512-0, 12/05/2009 Tested on: 13/5/2009 15:26:55 avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > Werner Woehr > Nisargadatta > Wednesday, May 13, 2009 2:04 PM > Re: Yoga Nidra > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote: > > > > > > > > You can meditate in bed, and it's great. > > > > Bed is no longer for sleep and sex. > > > > Definitely, bed is not for thinking, you > > > > can think better while sitting , or on > > > > your feet. > > > > > > > > If you fall sleep while paying attention > > > > to being conscious, chances are you will > > > > awake aware of a presence behind consciousness > > > > itself. This is my version of Yoga Nidra, but Tim > > > > has another, you might like to try: > > > > > > > > http://timrowe.co.uk/ > > > > http://freeyoganidra.co.uk/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pete, > > > > > > The " presence behind consciousness itself " is the " will " to hold on to > > > paying attenion to being conscious. > > > > > > Werner > > > > P: Werner, trust me, I'm not putting you on, > > there is a presence that can be felt as clearly > > as sunlight, which shows up, sometimes, when > > awakening. What does it mean? It let's us know > > there is something beyond content, and sensory > > input. > > > > > > > Hi Pete, > > No need to ask me to trust you, I already do it. > > But, when it comes to questions concerning consciousness I only rely on my > self. > > As you might remember some years ago I had this surprising realization of my > own non-exsistence and during that experience all what could be called a > " presence " was gone. That's why I am so fond of Niz's expression that one is > the " unborn " . > > Later that " presence " returned and it still is active. I call it the " will " . > It is this " will " which creates this constant illusion of being a separate > entity. > > Werner > > You had this " experience " of nothingness. It never happened again? > -geo- > > No, Geo, I never had it again. But please allow me to correct the expression 'nothigness'. It was not nothingness I plunged into. It was the realization of my own non-existence. Afterwards for several days I tried to remember and to analize how and why this could have happened. But I only can say it happened uninvited and unexpected. That's all. Werner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 - Werner Woehr Nisargadatta Wednesday, May 13, 2009 4:11 PM Re: Yoga Nidra Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > Werner Woehr > Nisargadatta > Wednesday, May 13, 2009 2:04 PM > Re: Yoga Nidra > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote: > > > > > > > > You can meditate in bed, and it's great. > > > > Bed is no longer for sleep and sex. > > > > Definitely, bed is not for thinking, you > > > > can think better while sitting , or on > > > > your feet. > > > > > > > > If you fall sleep while paying attention > > > > to being conscious, chances are you will > > > > awake aware of a presence behind consciousness > > > > itself. This is my version of Yoga Nidra, but Tim > > > > has another, you might like to try: > > > > > > > > http://timrowe.co.uk/ > > > > http://freeyoganidra.co.uk/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pete, > > > > > > The " presence behind consciousness itself " is the " will " to hold on to > > > paying attenion to being conscious. > > > > > > Werner > > > > P: Werner, trust me, I'm not putting you on, > > there is a presence that can be felt as clearly > > as sunlight, which shows up, sometimes, when > > awakening. What does it mean? It let's us know > > there is something beyond content, and sensory > > input. > > > > > > > Hi Pete, > > No need to ask me to trust you, I already do it. > > But, when it comes to questions concerning consciousness I only rely on my > self. > > As you might remember some years ago I had this surprising realization of > my > own non-exsistence and during that experience all what could be called a > " presence " was gone. That's why I am so fond of Niz's expression that one > is > the " unborn " . > > Later that " presence " returned and it still is active. I call it the > " will " . > It is this " will " which creates this constant illusion of being a separate > entity. > > Werner > > You had this " experience " of nothingness. It never happened again? > -geo- > > No, Geo, I never had it again. But please allow me to correct the expression 'nothigness'. It was not nothingness I plunged into. It was the realization of my own non-existence. Afterwards for several days I tried to remember and to analize how and why this could have happened. But I only can say it happened uninvited and unexpected. That's all. Werner And...what do you make of it? Does it make any difference for you the fact that you had such experience? -geo- avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090512-0, 12/05/2009 Tested on: 13/5/2009 16:16:19 avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > Werner Woehr > Nisargadatta > Wednesday, May 13, 2009 4:11 PM > Re: Yoga Nidra > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > Werner Woehr > > Nisargadatta > > Wednesday, May 13, 2009 2:04 PM > > Re: Yoga Nidra > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > You can meditate in bed, and it's great. > > > > > Bed is no longer for sleep and sex. > > > > > Definitely, bed is not for thinking, you > > > > > can think better while sitting , or on > > > > > your feet. > > > > > > > > > > If you fall sleep while paying attention > > > > > to being conscious, chances are you will > > > > > awake aware of a presence behind consciousness > > > > > itself. This is my version of Yoga Nidra, but Tim > > > > > has another, you might like to try: > > > > > > > > > > http://timrowe.co.uk/ > > > > > http://freeyoganidra.co.uk/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pete, > > > > > > > > The " presence behind consciousness itself " is the " will " to hold on to > > > > paying attenion to being conscious. > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > P: Werner, trust me, I'm not putting you on, > > > there is a presence that can be felt as clearly > > > as sunlight, which shows up, sometimes, when > > > awakening. What does it mean? It let's us know > > > there is something beyond content, and sensory > > > input. > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Pete, > > > > No need to ask me to trust you, I already do it. > > > > But, when it comes to questions concerning consciousness I only rely on my > > self. > > > > As you might remember some years ago I had this surprising realization of > > my > > own non-exsistence and during that experience all what could be called a > > " presence " was gone. That's why I am so fond of Niz's expression that one > > is > > the " unborn " . > > > > Later that " presence " returned and it still is active. I call it the > > " will " . > > It is this " will " which creates this constant illusion of being a separate > > entity. > > > > Werner > > > > You had this " experience " of nothingness. It never happened again? > > -geo- > > > > > > No, Geo, I never had it again. > > But please allow me to correct the expression 'nothigness'. It was not > nothingness I plunged into. It was the realization of my own non-existence. > > Afterwards for several days I tried to remember and to analize how and why > this could have happened. But I only can say it happened uninvited and > unexpected. > > That's all. > > Werner > > And...what do you make of it? Does it make any difference for you the fact > that you had such experience? > -geo- > Yes Geo, it does. The relativity of all values got obvious without any need to study philosophy. But no one will give me a dime for it. Werner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 - Werner Woehr Nisargadatta Thursday, May 14, 2009 2:25 AM Re: Yoga Nidra Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > Werner Woehr > Nisargadatta > Wednesday, May 13, 2009 4:11 PM > Re: Yoga Nidra > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > Werner Woehr > > Nisargadatta > > Wednesday, May 13, 2009 2:04 PM > > Re: Yoga Nidra > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > You can meditate in bed, and it's great. > > > > > Bed is no longer for sleep and sex. > > > > > Definitely, bed is not for thinking, you > > > > > can think better while sitting , or on > > > > > your feet. > > > > > > > > > > If you fall sleep while paying attention > > > > > to being conscious, chances are you will > > > > > awake aware of a presence behind consciousness > > > > > itself. This is my version of Yoga Nidra, but Tim > > > > > has another, you might like to try: > > > > > > > > > > http://timrowe.co.uk/ > > > > > http://freeyoganidra.co.uk/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pete, > > > > > > > > The " presence behind consciousness itself " is the " will " to hold on > > > > to > > > > paying attenion to being conscious. > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > P: Werner, trust me, I'm not putting you on, > > > there is a presence that can be felt as clearly > > > as sunlight, which shows up, sometimes, when > > > awakening. What does it mean? It let's us know > > > there is something beyond content, and sensory > > > input. > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Pete, > > > > No need to ask me to trust you, I already do it. > > > > But, when it comes to questions concerning consciousness I only rely on > > my > > self. > > > > As you might remember some years ago I had this surprising realization > > of > > my > > own non-exsistence and during that experience all what could be called a > > " presence " was gone. That's why I am so fond of Niz's expression that > > one > > is > > the " unborn " . > > > > Later that " presence " returned and it still is active. I call it the > > " will " . > > It is this " will " which creates this constant illusion of being a > > separate > > entity. > > > > Werner > > > > You had this " experience " of nothingness. It never happened again? > > -geo- > > > > > > No, Geo, I never had it again. > > But please allow me to correct the expression 'nothigness'. It was not > nothingness I plunged into. It was the realization of my own > non-existence. > > Afterwards for several days I tried to remember and to analize how and why > this could have happened. But I only can say it happened uninvited and > unexpected. > > That's all. > > Werner > > And...what do you make of it? Does it make any difference for you the fact > that you had such experience? > -geo- > Yes Geo, it does. The relativity of all values got obvious without any need to study philosophy. But no one will give me a dime for it. Werner But as you said... it did not happened again, so it is just a memory of a state where werner was not. It has its value...but may be missleading - it is. Why call it " will " ? If it was really seen as impersonal will you would not be there! But as you say you are. So dont call it will... but ME, or I, or WERNER. You loose it and must go after it anew....that is the way it goes. If you think you got it.....be aware. -geo- avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090513-0, 13/05/2009 Tested on: 14/5/2009 07:15:06 avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > Werner Woehr > Nisargadatta > Thursday, May 14, 2009 2:25 AM > Re: Yoga Nidra > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > Werner Woehr > > Nisargadatta > > Wednesday, May 13, 2009 4:11 PM > > Re: Yoga Nidra > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > Werner Woehr > > > Nisargadatta > > > Wednesday, May 13, 2009 2:04 PM > > > Re: Yoga Nidra > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > You can meditate in bed, and it's great. > > > > > > Bed is no longer for sleep and sex. > > > > > > Definitely, bed is not for thinking, you > > > > > > can think better while sitting , or on > > > > > > your feet. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you fall sleep while paying attention > > > > > > to being conscious, chances are you will > > > > > > awake aware of a presence behind consciousness > > > > > > itself. This is my version of Yoga Nidra, but Tim > > > > > > has another, you might like to try: > > > > > > > > > > > > http://timrowe.co.uk/ > > > > > > http://freeyoganidra.co.uk/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pete, > > > > > > > > > > The " presence behind consciousness itself " is the " will " to hold on > > > > > to > > > > > paying attenion to being conscious. > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > P: Werner, trust me, I'm not putting you on, > > > > there is a presence that can be felt as clearly > > > > as sunlight, which shows up, sometimes, when > > > > awakening. What does it mean? It let's us know > > > > there is something beyond content, and sensory > > > > input. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Pete, > > > > > > No need to ask me to trust you, I already do it. > > > > > > But, when it comes to questions concerning consciousness I only rely on > > > my > > > self. > > > > > > As you might remember some years ago I had this surprising realization > > > of > > > my > > > own non-exsistence and during that experience all what could be called a > > > " presence " was gone. That's why I am so fond of Niz's expression that > > > one > > > is > > > the " unborn " . > > > > > > Later that " presence " returned and it still is active. I call it the > > > " will " . > > > It is this " will " which creates this constant illusion of being a > > > separate > > > entity. > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > You had this " experience " of nothingness. It never happened again? > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > No, Geo, I never had it again. > > > > But please allow me to correct the expression 'nothigness'. It was not > > nothingness I plunged into. It was the realization of my own > > non-existence. > > > > Afterwards for several days I tried to remember and to analize how and why > > this could have happened. But I only can say it happened uninvited and > > unexpected. > > > > That's all. > > > > Werner > > > > And...what do you make of it? Does it make any difference for you the fact > > that you had such experience? > > -geo- > > > > Yes Geo, it does. The relativity of all values got obvious without any need > to study philosophy. > > But no one will give me a dime for it. > > Werner > > But as you said... it did not happened again, so it is just a memory of a > state where werner was not. > It has its value...but may be missleading - it is. Why call it " will " ? If it > was really seen as impersonal will > you would not be there! But as you say you are. So dont call it will... but > ME, or I, or WERNER. > > You loose it and must go after it anew....that is the way it goes. If you > think you got it.....be aware. > -geo- the werner that is.. and the werner that is not.. are neither to be given a dime by nobody. for it has been written! ..b b.b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 - geo Nisargadatta Thursday, May 14, 2009 7:23 AM Re: Re: Yoga Nidra - Werner Woehr Nisargadatta Thursday, May 14, 2009 2:25 AM Re: Yoga Nidra Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > Werner Woehr > Nisargadatta > Wednesday, May 13, 2009 4:11 PM > Re: Yoga Nidra > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > Werner Woehr > > Nisargadatta > > Wednesday, May 13, 2009 2:04 PM > > Re: Yoga Nidra > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > You can meditate in bed, and it's great. > > > > > Bed is no longer for sleep and sex. > > > > > Definitely, bed is not for thinking, you > > > > > can think better while sitting , or on > > > > > your feet. > > > > > > > > > > If you fall sleep while paying attention > > > > > to being conscious, chances are you will > > > > > awake aware of a presence behind consciousness > > > > > itself. This is my version of Yoga Nidra, but Tim > > > > > has another, you might like to try: > > > > > > > > > > http://timrowe.co.uk/ > > > > > http://freeyoganidra.co.uk/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pete, > > > > > > > > The " presence behind consciousness itself " is the " will " to hold on > > > > to > > > > paying attenion to being conscious. > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > P: Werner, trust me, I'm not putting you on, > > > there is a presence that can be felt as clearly > > > as sunlight, which shows up, sometimes, when > > > awakening. What does it mean? It let's us know > > > there is something beyond content, and sensory > > > input. > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Pete, > > > > No need to ask me to trust you, I already do it. > > > > But, when it comes to questions concerning consciousness I only rely on > > my > > self. > > > > As you might remember some years ago I had this surprising realization > > of > > my > > own non-exsistence and during that experience all what could be called a > > " presence " was gone. That's why I am so fond of Niz's expression that > > one > > is > > the " unborn " . > > > > Later that " presence " returned and it still is active. I call it the > > " will " . > > It is this " will " which creates this constant illusion of being a > > separate > > entity. > > > > Werner > > > > You had this " experience " of nothingness. It never happened again? > > -geo- > > > > > > No, Geo, I never had it again. > > But please allow me to correct the expression 'nothigness'. It was not > nothingness I plunged into. It was the realization of my own > non-existence. > > Afterwards for several days I tried to remember and to analize how and why > this could have happened. But I only can say it happened uninvited and > unexpected. > > That's all. > > Werner > > And...what do you make of it? Does it make any difference for you the fact > that you had such experience? > -geo- > Yes Geo, it does. The relativity of all values got obvious without any need to study philosophy. But no one will give me a dime for it. Werner But as you said... it did not happened again, so it is just a memory of a state where werner was not. It has its value...but may be missleading - it is. Why call it " will " ? If it was really seen as impersonal will you would not be there! But as you say you are. So dont call it will... but ME, or I, or WERNER. You loose it and must go after it anew....that is the way it goes. If you think you got it.....be aware. -geo- ....and to loose it means you are there... -geo- avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090513-0, 13/05/2009 Tested on: 14/5/2009 07:15:06 avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090513-0, 13/05/2009 Tested on: 14/5/2009 07:28:13 avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 > > > > > > > > Hi Pete, > > W: No need to ask me to trust you, I already do it. P: Thanks for the vote of confidence, Werner, but I wasn't asking you to trust me. It's just an expression meant to reassure the listener that the speaker has direct experience of the subject, and is not offering only hearsay. > >W: But, when it comes to questions concerning consciousness I only rely on my self. P: Yes, that is as it should be, but I was talking not about consciousness but about a presence that appears in it, and is indifferent to all things; therefore, has no need to will anything. > >W: As you might remember some years ago I had this surprising realization of my own non-exsistence and during that experience all what could be called a " presence " was gone. That's why I am so fond of Niz's expression that one is the " unborn " . P: Yes, that experience of nonexistence is very important. I'm very glad it happened, but we are dealing here, simply, with preferring one word over another, or an aspect of the sensation over another. Let me illustrate that with an example: Suppose your wife takes down from a wall your son's favorite picture, which has been hanging there for years. On coming home your son may be struck by the nonexistence of the picture, while you might be struck by how dirty the wall looks in contrast to the clean square where the picture used to be. So, the same absence of the picture is seen in very different ways by different people. > >W: Later that " presence " returned and it still is active. I call it the " will " . It is this " will " which creates this constant illusion of being a separate entity. P: Yes, Mystical experiences fade, but they change the brain. How we call the experiences matters little, what is important is the changes they brought. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 GuruRatings , " Tony OClery " <aoclery wrote: GuruRatings , " olodumare_4all " <olodumare_4all@> wrote: > > GuruRatings , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote: > > > > You can meditate in bed, and it's great. > > Bed is no longer for sleep and sex. > > Definitely, bed is not for thinking, you > > can think better while sitting , or on > > your feet. > > *_* That has always been the case, Pete. Before > tv and radio, people just lay down and closed > their eyes and watched. > > It's all there. > > I mean, all the things and nonthings that > anyone has ever mentioned, all there to be > seen (or not seen). > > Like Alice, heavy as steel or lighter > than air, grainy like tv, smooth and grainless > seamless, gray or brighter than life, be a > thousand other people or be a rock, see the > history of the world or see other worlds... > > but.. > > > Pete:> If you fall sleep while paying attention > > to being conscious, chances are you will > > awake aware of a presence behind consciousness > > itself. > > *_* The way you've worded the above might > give a skewed idea about a presence behind > something. There is no presence to be aware > of behind consciousness as you'll find > yourself before or behind all consciousness. > > When the worlds disappear and your body with > it, there is your own presence, nameless > and knowledgeless, there is still you. It > is your presence who waits to see what > might arise and it is your presence alive > but with no known vibration, not high or > low, that watches the whole world come > about as a sea of a specific chord of > vibration rises and pulls your attention > firmly into it. > Namaste, Yoga Nidra is sushupti without movement.. It is like sleep it is a continuous thought of nothingness rather than being above mind... Being above mind is samadhi..sahaja nirvikalpa samadhi in fact. As there is no memory in either nidra or samadhi it is hard to tell which one was relevant....Only the progressive state of awareness indicates which experience or non experience it was...being in nidra or sushupti doesn't bring moksha or the whole world would wake up every morning liberated......... --- End forwarded message --- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 - cerosoul Nisargadatta Thursday, May 14, 2009 12:06 PM Re: Yoga Nidra > > > > > > > > Hi Pete, > > W: No need to ask me to trust you, I already do it. P: Thanks for the vote of confidence, Werner, but I wasn't asking you to trust me. It's just an expression meant to reassure the listener that the speaker has direct experience of the subject, and is not offering only hearsay. > >W: But, when it comes to questions concerning consciousness I only rely on >my self. P: Yes, that is as it should be, but I was talking not about consciousness but about a presence that appears in it, and is indifferent to all things; therefore, has no need to will anything. > >W: As you might remember some years ago I had this surprising realization >of my own non-exsistence and during that experience all what could be >called a " presence " was gone. That's why I am so fond of Niz's expression >that one is the " unborn " . P: Yes, that experience of nonexistence is very important. I'm very glad it happened, but we are dealing here, simply, with preferring one word over another, or an aspect of the sensation over another. Let me illustrate that with an example: Suppose your wife takes down from a wall your son's favorite picture, which has been hanging there for years. On coming home your son may be struck by the nonexistence of the picture, while you might be struck by how dirty the wall looks in contrast to the clean square where the picture used to be. So, the same absence of the picture is seen in very different ways by different people. > >W: Later that " presence " returned and it still is active. I call it the > " will " . It is this " will " which creates this constant illusion of being a >separate entity. P: Yes, Mystical experiences fade, but they change the brain. How we call the experiences matters little, what is important is the changes they brought. geo> How would you differentiate a mystical experience from an avarage experience? avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090513-0, 13/05/2009 Tested on: 14/5/2009 12:11:17 avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 >> Hi Pete, >> >> W: No need to ask me to trust you, I already do it. > > P: Thanks for the vote of confidence, Werner, but I > wasn't asking you to trust me. It's just an expression > meant to reassure the listener that the speaker has > direct experience of the subject, and is not offering > only hearsay. > >> >>W: But, when it comes to questions concerning consciousness I only rely on >>my self. > > P: Yes, that is as it should be, but I was talking > not about consciousness but about a presence that > appears in it, and is indifferent to all things; > therefore, has no need to will anything. >> >>W: As you might remember some years ago I had this surprising realization >>of my own non-exsistence and during that experience all what could be >>called a " presence " was gone. That's why I am so fond of Niz's expression >>that one is the " unborn " . > > P: Yes, that experience of nonexistence is very important. > I'm very glad it happened, but we are dealing here, > simply, with preferring one word over another, or an > aspect of the sensation over another. Let me > illustrate that with an example: > > Suppose your wife takes down from a wall your > son's favorite picture, which has been hanging > there for years. On coming home your son may > be struck by the nonexistence of the picture, > while you might be struck by how dirty the wall > looks in contrast to the clean square where > the picture used to be. So, the same absence of > the picture is seen in very different ways by > different people. >> >>W: Later that " presence " returned and it still is active. I call it the >> " will " . It is this " will " which creates this constant illusion of being a >>separate entity. > > P: Yes, Mystical experiences fade, but they change > the brain. How we call the experiences matters little, > what is important is the changes they brought. > > geo> How would you differentiate a mystical experience > from an avarage experience? Avarge non-mystical.. to be clearer. > > avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. > Virus Database (VPS): 090513-0, 13/05/2009 > Tested on: 14/5/2009 12:11:17 > avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > >> Hi Pete, > >> > >> W: No need to ask me to trust you, I already do it. > > > > P: Thanks for the vote of confidence, Werner, but I > > wasn't asking you to trust me. It's just an expression > > meant to reassure the listener that the speaker has > > direct experience of the subject, and is not offering > > only hearsay. > > > >> > >>W: But, when it comes to questions concerning consciousness I only rely on > >>my self. > > > > P: Yes, that is as it should be, but I was talking > > not about consciousness but about a presence that > > appears in it, and is indifferent to all things; > > therefore, has no need to will anything. > >> > >>W: As you might remember some years ago I had this surprising realization > >>of my own non-exsistence and during that experience all what could be > >>called a " presence " was gone. That's why I am so fond of Niz's expression > >>that one is the " unborn " . > > > > P: Yes, that experience of nonexistence is very important. > > I'm very glad it happened, but we are dealing here, > > simply, with preferring one word over another, or an > > aspect of the sensation over another. Let me > > illustrate that with an example: > > > > Suppose your wife takes down from a wall your > > son's favorite picture, which has been hanging > > there for years. On coming home your son may > > be struck by the nonexistence of the picture, > > while you might be struck by how dirty the wall > > looks in contrast to the clean square where > > the picture used to be. So, the same absence of > > the picture is seen in very different ways by > > different people. > >> > >>W: Later that " presence " returned and it still is active. I call it the > >> " will " . It is this " will " which creates this constant illusion of being a > >>separate entity. > > > > P: Yes, Mystical experiences fade, but they change > > the brain. How we call the experiences matters little, > > what is important is the changes they brought. > > > > geo> How would you differentiate a mystical experience > > from an avarage experience? Avarge non-mystical.. to be > clearer. P: Be serious! Anyone who has have one, knows the difference. So have you have one, or are you a neophyte? And if you are a neophyte what are you doing here opinionating? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6 wrote: > > P: Yes, that experience of nonexistence is very important. > I'm very glad it happened, but we are dealing here, > simply, with preferring one word over another, or an > aspect of the sensation over another. Let me > illustrate that with an example: > > Suppose your wife takes down from a wall your > son's favorite picture, which has been hanging > there for years. On coming home your son may > be struck by the nonexistence of the picture, > while you might be struck by how dirty the wall > looks in contrast to the clean square where > the picture used to be. So, the same absence of > the picture is seen in very different ways by > different people. > > Yes ok, Pete, But the white spot on the wall still is a content of consciousness but your own absense is not a content of consciousness and yet you are aware of it. I was pondering that riddle again and again and the only answer I found was the metaphor of silence. When suddenly all sounds are gone then you still are aware of the absense of sound called silence. BTW, Ramana has told the first thought which appears is the " I thought " . This appearanc of the I-thought is what I call the appearence of " will " and that will creates the illusion of being a separate entity. Calling it " will " is not a philosophical idea. You constantly are aware of this will as a " presence " . But when realizing you own non-exsitence this " presence " is gone. Werner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 > >> Hi Pete, > >> > >> W: No need to ask me to trust you, I already do it. > > > > P: Thanks for the vote of confidence, Werner, but I > > wasn't asking you to trust me. It's just an expression > > meant to reassure the listener that the speaker has > > direct experience of the subject, and is not offering > > only hearsay. > > > >> > >>W: But, when it comes to questions concerning consciousness I only rely > >>on > >>my self. > > > > P: Yes, that is as it should be, but I was talking > > not about consciousness but about a presence that > > appears in it, and is indifferent to all things; > > therefore, has no need to will anything. > >> > >>W: As you might remember some years ago I had this surprising > >>realization > >>of my own non-exsistence and during that experience all what could be > >>called a " presence " was gone. That's why I am so fond of Niz's > >>expression > >>that one is the " unborn " . > > > > P: Yes, that experience of nonexistence is very important. > > I'm very glad it happened, but we are dealing here, > > simply, with preferring one word over another, or an > > aspect of the sensation over another. Let me > > illustrate that with an example: > > > > Suppose your wife takes down from a wall your > > son's favorite picture, which has been hanging > > there for years. On coming home your son may > > be struck by the nonexistence of the picture, > > while you might be struck by how dirty the wall > > looks in contrast to the clean square where > > the picture used to be. So, the same absence of > > the picture is seen in very different ways by > > different people. > >> > >>W: Later that " presence " returned and it still is active. I call it the > >> " will " . It is this " will " which creates this constant illusion of being > >>a > >>separate entity. > > > > P: Yes, Mystical experiences fade, but they change > > the brain. How we call the experiences matters little, > > what is important is the changes they brought. > > > > geo> How would you differentiate a mystical experience > > from an avarage experience? Avarge non-mystical.. to be > clearer. P: Be serious! Anyone who has have one, knows the difference. So have you have one, or are you a neophyte? And if you are a neophyte what are you doing here opinionating? geo>You got me by suprise! Defensiveness, bitterness, resentiment...are all very good pointers to peter. Make good use of them to avoid distortions of perception and interpretation. Mystical to me.. remind me of goods, religions, spirits, eyes roling back to yhe skull, monks, and this sort of things... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 15, 2009 Report Share Posted May 15, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > P: Be serious! Anyone who has had one, > knows the difference. So have you had > one, or are you a neophyte? And if you are > a neophyte what are you doing here opinionating? > > geo>You got me by suprise! > Defensiveness, bitterness, resentiment...are all very good > pointers to peter. Make good use of them to avoid distortions > of perception and interpretation. > > Mystical to me.. remind me of goods, religions, spirits, eyes roling back to > yhe skull, > monks, and this sort of things... P: Don't be distracted by my " direct approach " that description of mysticism must come from watching bad films. Have you had a contemplative one then? And Aha moment? A no head moment? A drug trip? What other than reading books qualify you to post? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 15, 2009 Report Share Posted May 15, 2009 - cerosoul Nisargadatta Thursday, May 14, 2009 11:21 PM Re: Yoga Nidra Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > >> P: Be serious! Anyone who has had one, > knows the difference. So have you had > one, or are you a neophyte? And if you are > a neophyte what are you doing here opinionating? > > geo>You got me by suprise! > Defensiveness, bitterness, resentiment...are all very good > pointers to peter. Make good use of them to avoid distortions > of perception and interpretation. > > Mystical to me.. remind me of goods, religions, spirits, eyes roling back > to > yhe skull, > monks, and this sort of things... P: Don't be distracted by my " direct approach " that description of mysticism must come from watching bad films. Have you had a contemplative one then? And Aha moment? A no head moment? A drug trip? What other than reading books qualify you to post? geo> For the time being geo is not posting. avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090513-0, 13/05/2009 Tested on: 15/5/2009 07:35:32 avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 15, 2009 Report Share Posted May 15, 2009 - geo Nisargadatta Friday, May 15, 2009 8:02 AM Re: Re: Yoga Nidra - cerosoul Nisargadatta Thursday, May 14, 2009 11:21 PM Re: Yoga Nidra Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > >> P: Be serious! Anyone who has had one, > knows the difference. So have you had > one, or are you a neophyte? And if you are > a neophyte what are you doing here opinionating? > > geo>You got me by suprise! > Defensiveness, bitterness, resentiment...are all very good > pointers to peter. Make good use of them to avoid distortions > of perception and interpretation. > > Mystical to me.. remind me of goods, religions, spirits, eyes roling back > to > yhe skull, > monks, and this sort of things... P: Don't be distracted by my " direct approach " that description of mysticism must come from watching bad films. Have you had a contemplative one then? And Aha moment? A no head moment? A drug trip? What other than reading books qualify you to post? geo> For the time being geo is not posting. So who is writing? ....having a hard time trying to find him and describe his qualifications... avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090513-0, 13/05/2009 Tested on: 15/5/2009 07:35:32 avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090513-0, 13/05/2009 Tested on: 15/5/2009 08:05:19 avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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