Guest guest Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > True. > > > > Flying free. > > > > Wonder. > > > > Laughter in the face of death. > > > > " Death where is thy sting? " > > Death is primarily fear of aloneness, loss and the unknown. > > In other words, fear of life. Yes, it is all living. Space is alive. What isn't living is imagined, is the thought of an end. To end is to begin. So thought becomes scared of itself. Thought includes fear of its own momentary content. Amazing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Nisargadatta , Bill Rishel <illusyn@> wrote: > > > > The absolute present *is* freedom from time. > > It is the ending of time. > > > > Bill > > > > > Bill, > > There is neither freedom of time nor the timeless. These are all romantic spiritual ideas traded down from countless repetitive generations. > > Listen to to the song of a bird or of a cd. Are you able to do it ? > > To be able to listen to a song needs memory, or more precise, the short term memory. There is no single case known in neurology where the short term memory was demaged and out of function and yet the person was concsious. > > And this already shows that consciousness already is a function which needs memory and time. And herewith all those wonderful ideas about the timeless are obsolete or more precise: Nonsense ! > > Werner Ideas are used to indicate what isn't an idea. The idea itself is to be abandoned, is to dissolve. And it does. The " timeless " is such an idea. At a certain point, all ideas dissolve, not just ones that are criticized as " romantic " or " spiritual. " Thought criticizes thought. The agenda there is to maintain certain thought-forms as more viable, more adaptive. Can thought really adapt? Or is this another conceit of thought, another way to maintain continuity for a thought process? Looked into deeply, thought collapses. The structure is not maintained. If this collapse occurs with and through awareness, intelligence is not damaged in any way by the collapse. One is aware, brightly aware. And not thought-based, nor memory referenced. Yet certainly thought operates, memory works. So, we communicate with words, because thought operates. But the word is not the thing one offers. One offers " the timeless. " Not as a concept. As this very present now-moment that includes the beginningless past and endless future of experience. -- Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > The absolute present *is* freedom from time. > > > It is the ending of time. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > Bill, > > > > There is neither freedom of time nor the timeless. These are all romantic > > spiritual ideas traded down from countless repetitive generations. > > > > Listen to to the song of a bird or of a cd. Are you able to do it ? > > > > To be able to listen to a song needs memory, or more precise, the short term > > memory. There is no single case known in neurology where the short term > > memory was demaged and out of function and yet the person was concsious. > > > > And this already shows that consciousness already is a function which needs > > memory and time. And herewith all those wonderful ideas about the timeless > > are obsolete or more precise: Nonsense ! > > > > Werner > > > > Yes, Werner. That is consciousness. Ttimelessness is not related to > > consciousness. > > Anyway....the ground of time is timlessness, just as the ground of movement > > is stillness..etc... > > -geo- > > > > > > > That " timelessness " is just an idea, Geo. A philosophy. > Consciousness is all there is. Everything beyond consciousness are ideas. > > Werner The actual timeless is not conceptual, certain not a philosophy. The concept is merely used to indicate that the construct of time is not referred to. You could also call it not-touched-by-thought. The reason for not giving it a positive quality, such as " consciousness, " is that thought is not able to touch it, to ascribe a positive quality to it. " Consciousness " is a thought-referent. " Consciousness " is philosophy. The actuality is not the idea of the actuality. -- Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > True. > > > > > > Flying free. > > > > > > Wonder. > > > > > > Laughter in the face of death. > > > > > > " Death where is thy sting? " > > > > Death is primarily fear of aloneness, loss and the unknown. > > > > In other words, fear of life. > > Yes, it is all living. > > Space is alive. > > What isn't living is imagined, is the thought of an end. > > To end is to begin. > > So thought becomes scared of itself. > > Thought includes fear of its own momentary content. > > Amazing! Yup, it really is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2009 Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 " Death where is thy sting? " Death is primarily fear of aloneness, loss and the unknown. geo> I dont think one fears the unknown. We fear the loss of the known. There is no fear of aquiring some unknown - just loosing the known. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2009 Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > " Death where is thy sting? " > Death is primarily fear of aloneness, loss and the unknown. > > geo> I dont think one fears the unknown. We fear the loss of the > known. Yes... well-put. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2009 Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > " Death where is thy sting? " > > Death is primarily fear of aloneness, loss and the unknown. > > > > geo> I dont think one fears the unknown. We fear the loss of the > > known. > > Yes... well-put. what is it that is known in the known we all fear to lose? ..b b.b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2009 Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 > > " Death where is thy sting? " > > Death is primarily fear of aloneness, loss and the unknown. > > > > geo> I dont think one fears the unknown. We fear the loss of the > > known. > > Yes... well-put. what is it that is known in the known we all fear to lose? ..b b.b. It is the aspect that the animal-man considers as " safe " . There is an inherent mechanism in the human organism and all animals, a strange apparatus programed in such a way that repetition seems to be " good " . This is nescessary for the survival of the species - any species. Food -food-food - sex -sex-sex -sex masochism-masochism-masochism-obesity-obesity-obesity You hear a song for the first time...hmmmm...the second....its ok.. the third ....you by it. The very nature of the " known " involves re-cognition, another aspect nescessary for suvival. -geo- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2009 Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > > " Death where is thy sting? " > > > Death is primarily fear of aloneness, loss and the unknown. > > > > > > geo> I dont think one fears the unknown. We fear the loss of the > > > known. > > > > Yes... well-put. > > what is it that is known in the known we all fear to lose? > > .b b.b. > > It is the aspect that the animal-man considers as " safe " . > There is an inherent mechanism in the human organism and all > animals, a strange apparatus programed in such a way that > repetition seems to be " good " . This is nescessary for the survival > of the species - any species. Food -food-food - sex -sex-sex -sex > masochism-masochism-masochism-obesity-obesity-obesity > You hear a song for the first time...hmmmm...the second....its ok.. > the third ....you by it. The very nature of the " known " involves > re-cognition, > another aspect nescessary for suvival. > -geo- hmmm.. seems hardly fit for survival. ..b b.b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2009 Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 - roberibus111 Nisargadatta Tuesday, May 19, 2009 8:53 PM Re: From Bill on GR Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > > " Death where is thy sting? " > > > Death is primarily fear of aloneness, loss and the unknown. > > > > > > geo> I dont think one fears the unknown. We fear the loss of the > > > known. > > > > Yes... well-put. > > what is it that is known in the known we all fear to lose? > > .b b.b. > > It is the aspect that the animal-man considers as " safe " . > There is an inherent mechanism in the human organism and all > animals, a strange apparatus programed in such a way that > repetition seems to be " good " . This is nescessary for the survival > of the species - any species. Food -food-food - sex -sex-sex -sex > masochism-masochism-masochism-obesity-obesity-obesity > You hear a song for the first time...hmmmm...the second....its ok.. > the third ....you by it. The very nature of the " known " involves > re-cognition, > another aspect nescessary for suvival. > -geo- hmmm.. seems hardly fit for survival. ..b b.b. It is. Recognise food...it is the sane aspect. But modern man indulges and there is obesity. Repetition of the known is nescessary...but modern man is able to condition himself to repetition of what is hurtfull: masochism. Side question: do you talk about these matters with people outside the list? And other members? I dont. Very...very rarely. -geo- -geo- avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090513-0, 13/05/2009 Tested on: 19/5/2009 22:30:43 avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2009 Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > roberibus111 > Nisargadatta > Tuesday, May 19, 2009 8:53 PM > Re: From Bill on GR > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > " Death where is thy sting? " > > > > Death is primarily fear of aloneness, loss and the unknown. > > > > > > > > geo> I dont think one fears the unknown. We fear the loss of the > > > > known. > > > > > > Yes... well-put. > > > > what is it that is known in the known we all fear to lose? > > > > .b b.b. > > > > It is the aspect that the animal-man considers as " safe " . > > There is an inherent mechanism in the human organism and all > > animals, a strange apparatus programed in such a way that > > repetition seems to be " good " . This is nescessary for the survival > > of the species - any species. Food -food-food - sex -sex-sex -sex > > masochism-masochism-masochism-obesity-obesity-obesity > > You hear a song for the first time...hmmmm...the second....its ok.. > > the third ....you by it. The very nature of the " known " involves > > re-cognition, > > another aspect nescessary for suvival. > > -geo- > > hmmm.. > > seems hardly fit for survival. > > .b b.b. > > It is. Recognise food...it is the sane aspect. But modern man indulges > and there is obesity. Repetition of the known is nescessary...but > modern man is able to condition himself to repetition of what is hurtfull: > masochism. there is no difference in " modern " man or " ancient " hominid.. or whale or beach pebble..or galactic cluster. self interest IS existence. it is bad vectoring. but only from " our " perspective. it's nothing really good nor bad. > Side question: do you talk about these matters with people outside the list? > And other members? > > I dont. Very...very rarely. > -geo- > -geo- i don't believe i ever talk to anyone anywhere. but i act on the belief that i believe. and indeed it is not i that acts. i do lots of stuff.. with many " others'. it's a gas. unbelievable. what's going on? who's going where? the answer is insanely funny.. or scary..or awesome and Divine. it's also not the real deal if it answers anything at all. there is nothing to answer. ..b b.b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2009 Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 - roberibus111 Nisargadatta Wednesday, May 20, 2009 7:32 AM Re: From Bill on GR Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > roberibus111 > Nisargadatta > Tuesday, May 19, 2009 8:53 PM > Re: From Bill on GR > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > " Death where is thy sting? " > > > > Death is primarily fear of aloneness, loss and the unknown. > > > > > > > > geo> I dont think one fears the unknown. We fear the loss of the > > > > known. > > > > > > Yes... well-put. > > > > what is it that is known in the known we all fear to lose? > > > > .b b.b. > > > > It is the aspect that the animal-man considers as " safe " . > > There is an inherent mechanism in the human organism and all > > animals, a strange apparatus programed in such a way that > > repetition seems to be " good " . This is nescessary for the survival > > of the species - any species. Food -food-food - sex -sex-sex -sex > > masochism-masochism-masochism-obesity-obesity-obesity > > You hear a song for the first time...hmmmm...the second....its ok.. > > the third ....you by it. The very nature of the " known " involves > > re-cognition, > > another aspect nescessary for suvival. > > -geo- > > hmmm.. > > seems hardly fit for survival. > > .b b.b. > > It is. Recognise food...it is the sane aspect. But modern man indulges > and there is obesity. Repetition of the known is nescessary...but > modern man is able to condition himself to repetition of what is hurtfull: > masochism. there is no difference in " modern " man or " ancient " hominid.. or whale or beach pebble..or galactic cluster. self interest IS existence. it is bad vectoring. but only from " our " perspective. it's nothing really good nor bad. > Side question: do you talk about these matters with people outside the > list? > And other members? > > I dont. Very...very rarely. > -geo- > -geo- i don't believe i ever talk to anyone anywhere. but i act on the belief that i believe. and indeed it is not i that acts. i do lots of stuff.. with many " others'. it's a gas. unbelievable. what's going on? who's going where? the answer is insanely funny.. or scary..or awesome and Divine. it's also not the real deal if it answers anything at all. there is nothing to answer. ..b b.b. Ant house -geo- avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090513-0, 13/05/2009 Tested on: 20/5/2009 07:37:10 avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2009 Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 - geo Nisargadatta Wednesday, May 20, 2009 8:13 AM Re: Re: From Bill on GR - roberibus111 Nisargadatta Wednesday, May 20, 2009 7:32 AM Re: From Bill on GR Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > roberibus111 > Nisargadatta > Tuesday, May 19, 2009 8:53 PM > Re: From Bill on GR > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > " Death where is thy sting? " > > > > Death is primarily fear of aloneness, loss and the unknown. > > > > > > > > geo> I dont think one fears the unknown. We fear the loss of the > > > > known. > > > > > > Yes... well-put. > > > > what is it that is known in the known we all fear to lose? > > > > .b b.b. > > > > It is the aspect that the animal-man considers as " safe " . > > There is an inherent mechanism in the human organism and all > > animals, a strange apparatus programed in such a way that > > repetition seems to be " good " . This is nescessary for the survival > > of the species - any species. Food -food-food - sex -sex-sex -sex > > masochism-masochism-masochism-obesity-obesity-obesity > > You hear a song for the first time...hmmmm...the second....its ok.. > > the third ....you by it. The very nature of the " known " involves > > re-cognition, > > another aspect nescessary for suvival. > > -geo- > > hmmm.. > > seems hardly fit for survival. > > .b b.b. > > It is. Recognise food...it is the sane aspect. But modern man indulges > and there is obesity. Repetition of the known is nescessary...but > modern man is able to condition himself to repetition of what is hurtfull: > masochism. there is no difference in " modern " man or " ancient " hominid.. or whale or beach pebble..or galactic cluster. self interest IS existence. it is bad vectoring. but only from " our " perspective. it's nothing really good nor bad. > Side question: do you talk about these matters with people outside the > list? > And other members? > > I dont. Very...very rarely. > -geo- > -geo- i don't believe i ever talk to anyone anywhere. but i act on the belief that i believe. and indeed it is not i that acts. i do lots of stuff.. with many " others'. it's a gas. unbelievable. what's going on? who's going where? the answer is insanely funny.. or scary..or awesome and Divine. it's also not the real deal if it answers anything at all. there is nothing to answer. ..b b.b. Ant house But I am being half dishonest. I am cought in this madness lots of times... -geo- avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090513-0, 13/05/2009 Tested on: 20/5/2009 07:37:10 avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090513-0, 13/05/2009 Tested on: 20/5/2009 08:16:47 avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2009 Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > roberibus111 > Nisargadatta > Wednesday, May 20, 2009 7:32 AM > Re: From Bill on GR > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > roberibus111 > > Nisargadatta > > Tuesday, May 19, 2009 8:53 PM > > Re: From Bill on GR > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > " Death where is thy sting? " > > > > > Death is primarily fear of aloneness, loss and the unknown. > > > > > > > > > > geo> I dont think one fears the unknown. We fear the loss of the > > > > > known. > > > > > > > > Yes... well-put. > > > > > > what is it that is known in the known we all fear to lose? > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > It is the aspect that the animal-man considers as " safe " . > > > There is an inherent mechanism in the human organism and all > > > animals, a strange apparatus programed in such a way that > > > repetition seems to be " good " . This is nescessary for the survival > > > of the species - any species. Food -food-food - sex -sex-sex -sex > > > masochism-masochism-masochism-obesity-obesity-obesity > > > You hear a song for the first time...hmmmm...the second....its ok.. > > > the third ....you by it. The very nature of the " known " involves > > > re-cognition, > > > another aspect nescessary for suvival. > > > -geo- > > > > hmmm.. > > > > seems hardly fit for survival. > > > > .b b.b. > > > > It is. Recognise food...it is the sane aspect. But modern man indulges > > and there is obesity. Repetition of the known is nescessary...but > > modern man is able to condition himself to repetition of what is hurtfull: > > masochism. > > there is no difference in " modern " man or " ancient " hominid.. > > or whale or beach pebble..or galactic cluster. > > self interest IS existence. > > it is bad vectoring. > > but only from " our " perspective. > > it's nothing really good nor bad. > > > Side question: do you talk about these matters with people outside the > > list? > > And other members? > > > > I dont. Very...very rarely. > > -geo- > > -geo- > > i don't believe i ever talk to anyone anywhere. > > but i act on the belief that i believe. > > and indeed it is not i that acts. > > i do lots of stuff.. > > with many " others'. > > it's a gas. > > unbelievable. > > what's going on? > > who's going where? > > the answer is insanely funny.. > > or scary..or awesome and Divine. > > it's also not the real deal if it answers anything at all. > > there is nothing to answer. > > .b b.b. > Ant house > -geo- that's as good as anything... and as bad too. it doesn't matter. ..b b.b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2009 Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > geo > Nisargadatta > Wednesday, May 20, 2009 8:13 AM > Re: Re: From Bill on GR - > roberibus111 > Nisargadatta > Wednesday, May 20, 2009 7:32 AM > Re: From Bill on GR > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > roberibus111 > > Nisargadatta > > Tuesday, May 19, 2009 8:53 PM > > Re: From Bill on GR > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > " Death where is thy sting? " > > > > > Death is primarily fear of aloneness, loss and the unknown. > > > > > > > > > > geo> I dont think one fears the unknown. We fear the loss of the > > > > > known. > > > > > > > > Yes... well-put. > > > > > > what is it that is known in the known we all fear to lose? > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > It is the aspect that the animal-man considers as " safe " . > > > There is an inherent mechanism in the human organism and all > > > animals, a strange apparatus programed in such a way that > > > repetition seems to be " good " . This is nescessary for the survival > > > of the species - any species. Food -food-food - sex -sex-sex -sex > > > masochism-masochism-masochism-obesity-obesity-obesity > > > You hear a song for the first time...hmmmm...the second....its ok.. > > > the third ....you by it. The very nature of the " known " involves > > > re-cognition, > > > another aspect nescessary for suvival. > > > -geo- > > > > hmmm.. > > > > seems hardly fit for survival. > > > > .b b.b. > > > > It is. Recognise food...it is the sane aspect. But modern man indulges > > and there is obesity. Repetition of the known is nescessary...but > > modern man is able to condition himself to repetition of what is hurtfull: > > masochism. > > there is no difference in " modern " man or " ancient " hominid.. > > or whale or beach pebble..or galactic cluster. > > self interest IS existence. > > it is bad vectoring. > > but only from " our " perspective. > > it's nothing really good nor bad. > > > Side question: do you talk about these matters with people outside the > > list? > > And other members? > > > > I dont. Very...very rarely. > > -geo- > > -geo- > > i don't believe i ever talk to anyone anywhere. > > but i act on the belief that i believe. > > and indeed it is not i that acts. > > i do lots of stuff.. > > with many " others'. > > it's a gas. > > unbelievable. > > what's going on? > > who's going where? > > the answer is insanely funny.. > > or scary..or awesome and Divine. > > it's also not the real deal if it answers anything at all. > > there is nothing to answer. > > .b b.b. > Ant house > > But I am being half dishonest. I am cought in this madness > lots of times... > -geo- > > avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. i'm one with that. in no time at all. what is dishonest. who is dishonest. why is dishonest. where is dishonest. how is not relevant. but goddamn it that leaves little else... and a whole lot else elsewhere. there is nothing else. .. .. .. .. .. .. .......except me. ..b b.b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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