Jump to content
IndiaDivine.org

Self as Strange Attractor / for Dan

Rate this topic


Guest guest

Recommended Posts

Guest guest

Nondual awakening or realization is sometimes characterized as realization of the false nature of self, " loss of self " , or liberation from the false self-concept. This article presents a

point of view for interpreting this phenomenon. " Self " is in effect a " strange-attractor " . It amounts to an " organizing principle " of the brain. Note that I said *brain, not mind. For this reason freedom from " self " is not attainable by

any conceptual understanding of the mind. While there is the concept of " self " , certainly, the root of self is not in the concept but in operation of the brain in terms of an ordering principle. This is a crucial point and is why freedom from the

self-principle is so difficult to attain, and why conceptual understanding in particular is not up to the task. It is as if a character in a  comic book were to undertake a reordering of the frames in the comic strip.

So the question becomes one of altering the manner of ordering of the brain to induce a fundamental change in that ordering. Most methods of achieving that involve various " practices " , such a zazen etc., which push the brain to some

kind of limit, hopefully inducing a fundamental change.In short, the transition from " self " as an organizing principle of the brain entails a transition by the brain to a (radically) different kind of ordering principle.

One approach to inducing such a transition is to maintain vigilant attention to what is strictly now, the absolutely immediate present. If such a " practice " is maintained vigilantly, eventually the brain " discovers " a much simpler

organizing principle, which supplants the former self-based one. This is a crucial point. It is the *brain that discovers*, not the (non-existent) " self " .When the brain undergoes such a radical transition the

subjective experience is of an astounding, even violent transformation. What could be more radical? But the subjective experience of such a transition is still illusion, and in the long run unimportant. Once that shift by the brain occurs the

" programming " of the system gradually undergoes thorough and pervasive revision. Over time the " choppiness of the waves of experience " subsides and a deeper and deeper harmonic resonance in experience develops. This phase could be called

the " purification of the Buddha fields. " But in all of it there is only one real " event " , and that is the transition by the brain to a different organizing principle. All the rest is insignificant

detail.Exactly what induces the shift by the brain to a different ordering principle is unknown. Sometimes the term " grace " is used. But it could be something as impersonal as some a kind of " butterfly effect " , some tiny factor that triggers a cascade of

transformation, much as a grain of sand triggers the sudden crystallization of a super-saturated solution.Bill

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

Bill -

 

The brain is constructed, is organized, just as much as it constructs and

organizes.

 

The patternings of energy movement " happen. "

 

The causes for the patternings is just another part of the patternings.

 

Our doings are patternings, our brains are patternings, our perceptions are

patternings.

 

The patterns happen.

 

And then they don't.

 

First there is a mountain.

 

Then there is no mountain.

 

Then there is.

 

On/off.

 

Positive/negative.

 

Movement/stillness.

 

Energy/space.

 

 

-- Dan

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nisargadatta , Bill Rishel <illusyn wrote:

>

> Nondual awakening or realization is sometimes characterized

> as realization of the false nature of self, " loss of self " , or

> liberation from the false self-concept. This article presents a

> point of view for interpreting this phenomenon.

>

> " Self " is in effect a " strange-attractor " . It amounts to an

> " organizing principle " of the brain. Note that I said *brain, not

> mind. For this reason freedom from " self " is not attainable by

> any conceptual understanding of the mind. While there is the

> concept of " self " , certainly, the root of self is not in the

> concept but in operation of the brain in terms of an ordering

> principle. This is a crucial point and is why freedom from the

> self-principle is so difficult to attain, and why conceptual

> understanding in particular is not up to the task. It is as if a

> character in a comic book were to undertake a reordering of

> the frames in the comic strip.

>

> So the question becomes one of altering the manner of

> ordering of the brain to induce a fundamental change in that

> ordering. Most methods of achieving that involve various

> " practices " , such a zazen etc., which push the brain to some

> kind of limit, hopefully inducing a fundamental change.

>

> In short, the transition from " self " as an organizing principle of

> the brain entails a transition by the brain to a (radically)

> different kind of ordering principle.

>

> One approach to inducing such a transition is to maintain

> vigilant attention to what is strictly now, the absolutely

> immediate present. If such a " practice " is maintained

> vigilantly, eventually the brain " discovers " a much simpler

> organizing principle, which supplants the former self-based

> one. This is a crucial point. It is the *brain that discovers*, not

> the (non-existent) " self " .

>

> When the brain undergoes such a radical transition the

> subjective experience is of an astounding, even violent

> transformation. What could be more radical? But the subjective

> experience of such a transition is still illusion, and in the long

> run unimportant. Once that shift by the brain occurs the

> " programming " of the system gradually undergoes thorough

> and pervasive revision. Over time the " choppiness of the waves

> of experience " subsides and a deeper and deeper harmonic

> resonance in experience develops. This phase could be called

> the " purification of the Buddha fields. " But in all of it there is

> only one real " event " , and that is the transition by the brain to

> a different organizing principle. All the rest is insignificant

> detail.

>

> Exactly what induces the shift by the brain to a different

> ordering principle is unknown. Sometimes the term " grace " is

> used. But it could be something as impersonal as some a kind

> of " butterfly effect " , some tiny factor that triggers a cascade of

> transformation, much as a grain of sand triggers the sudden

> crystallization of a super-saturated solution.

>

>

>

> Bill

>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

Bill -

 

Let me also say that I enjoy your metaphor of the strange attractor.

 

An attractor of energy into a pattern.

 

Actually a space that is given positive attributes by thought.

 

-- Dan

 

 

Nisargadatta , Bill Rishel <illusyn wrote:

>

> Nondual awakening or realization is sometimes characterized

> as realization of the false nature of self, " loss of self " , or

> liberation from the false self-concept. This article presents a

> point of view for interpreting this phenomenon.

>

> " Self " is in effect a " strange-attractor " . It amounts to an

> " organizing principle " of the brain. Note that I said *brain, not

> mind. For this reason freedom from " self " is not attainable by

> any conceptual understanding of the mind. While there is the

> concept of " self " , certainly, the root of self is not in the

> concept but in operation of the brain in terms of an ordering

> principle. This is a crucial point and is why freedom from the

> self-principle is so difficult to attain, and why conceptual

> understanding in particular is not up to the task. It is as if a

> character in a comic book were to undertake a reordering of

> the frames in the comic strip.

>

> So the question becomes one of altering the manner of

> ordering of the brain to induce a fundamental change in that

> ordering. Most methods of achieving that involve various

> " practices " , such a zazen etc., which push the brain to some

> kind of limit, hopefully inducing a fundamental change.

>

> In short, the transition from " self " as an organizing principle of

> the brain entails a transition by the brain to a (radically)

> different kind of ordering principle.

>

> One approach to inducing such a transition is to maintain

> vigilant attention to what is strictly now, the absolutely

> immediate present. If such a " practice " is maintained

> vigilantly, eventually the brain " discovers " a much simpler

> organizing principle, which supplants the former self-based

> one. This is a crucial point. It is the *brain that discovers*, not

> the (non-existent) " self " .

>

> When the brain undergoes such a radical transition the

> subjective experience is of an astounding, even violent

> transformation. What could be more radical? But the subjective

> experience of such a transition is still illusion, and in the long

> run unimportant. Once that shift by the brain occurs the

> " programming " of the system gradually undergoes thorough

> and pervasive revision. Over time the " choppiness of the waves

> of experience " subsides and a deeper and deeper harmonic

> resonance in experience develops. This phase could be called

> the " purification of the Buddha fields. " But in all of it there is

> only one real " event " , and that is the transition by the brain to

> a different organizing principle. All the rest is insignificant

> detail.

>

> Exactly what induces the shift by the brain to a different

> ordering principle is unknown. Sometimes the term " grace " is

> used. But it could be something as impersonal as some a kind

> of " butterfly effect " , some tiny factor that triggers a cascade of

> transformation, much as a grain of sand triggers the sudden

> crystallization of a super-saturated solution.

>

>

>

> Bill

>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

It is not that I *believe* it is all about the brain.

Brain for me is another metaphor.

 

There is an *aliveness* in immediacy of presence.

That's the moon I'm pointing to.

Not " the brain " .

Talking about the brain is just the finger.

 

Once attention collapses into immediacy of now,

it doesn't matter about anything else.

 

All is vibrantly alive, pouring through with light.

 

I am faltering with the words...

 

And yet I must speak.

 

As if to say, " Look! It is changing, much faster

than you breathe. Don't step back, step *in*,

fall in, dissolve in this Immediacy.

Everything you know doesn't matter. "

 

Just this Immediacy.

 

Bill

 

 

 

Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote:

>

> Bill -

>

> The brain is constructed, is organized, just as much as it constructs and

organizes.

>

> The patternings of energy movement " happen. "

>

> The causes for the patternings is just another part of the patternings.

>

> Our doings are patternings, our brains are patternings, our perceptions are

patternings.

>

> The patterns happen.

>

> And then they don't.

>

> First there is a mountain.

>

> Then there is no mountain.

>

> Then there is.

>

> On/off.

>

> Positive/negative.

>

> Movement/stillness.

>

> Energy/space.

>

>

> -- Dan

Nisargadatta , Bill Rishel <illusyn@> wrote:

> >

> > Nondual awakening or realization is sometimes characterized

> > as realization of the false nature of self, " loss of self " , or

> > liberation from the false self-concept. This article presents a

> > point of view for interpreting this phenomenon.

> >

> > " Self " is in effect a " strange-attractor " . It amounts to an

> > " organizing principle " of the brain. Note that I said *brain, not

> > mind. For this reason freedom from " self " is not attainable by

> > any conceptual understanding of the mind. While there is the

> > concept of " self " , certainly, the root of self is not in the

> > concept but in operation of the brain in terms of an ordering

> > principle. This is a crucial point and is why freedom from the

> > self-principle is so difficult to attain, and why conceptual

> > understanding in particular is not up to the task. It is as if a

> > character in a comic book were to undertake a reordering of

> > the frames in the comic strip.

> >

> > So the question becomes one of altering the manner of

> > ordering of the brain to induce a fundamental change in that

> > ordering. Most methods of achieving that involve various

> > " practices " , such a zazen etc., which push the brain to some

> > kind of limit, hopefully inducing a fundamental change.

> >

> > In short, the transition from " self " as an organizing principle of

> > the brain entails a transition by the brain to a (radically)

> > different kind of ordering principle.

> >

> > One approach to inducing such a transition is to maintain

> > vigilant attention to what is strictly now, the absolutely

> > immediate present. If such a " practice " is maintained

> > vigilantly, eventually the brain " discovers " a much simpler

> > organizing principle, which supplants the former self-based

> > one. This is a crucial point. It is the *brain that discovers*, not

> > the (non-existent) " self " .

> >

> > When the brain undergoes such a radical transition the

> > subjective experience is of an astounding, even violent

> > transformation. What could be more radical? But the subjective

> > experience of such a transition is still illusion, and in the long

> > run unimportant. Once that shift by the brain occurs the

> > " programming " of the system gradually undergoes thorough

> > and pervasive revision. Over time the " choppiness of the waves

> > of experience " subsides and a deeper and deeper harmonic

> > resonance in experience develops. This phase could be called

> > the " purification of the Buddha fields. " But in all of it there is

> > only one real " event " , and that is the transition by the brain to

> > a different organizing principle. All the rest is insignificant

> > detail.

> >

> > Exactly what induces the shift by the brain to a different

> > ordering principle is unknown. Sometimes the term " grace " is

> > used. But it could be something as impersonal as some a kind

> > of " butterfly effect " , some tiny factor that triggers a cascade of

> > transformation, much as a grain of sand triggers the sudden

> > crystallization of a super-saturated solution.

> >

> >

> >

> > Bill

> >

>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

Gotcha, Bill!

 

Thanks for clearing that up --

 

 

-- Dan

 

 

Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn wrote:

>

> It is not that I *believe* it is all about the brain.

> Brain for me is another metaphor.

>

> There is an *aliveness* in immediacy of presence.

> That's the moon I'm pointing to.

> Not " the brain " .

> Talking about the brain is just the finger.

>

> Once attention collapses into immediacy of now,

> it doesn't matter about anything else.

>

> All is vibrantly alive, pouring through with light.

>

> I am faltering with the words...

>

> And yet I must speak.

>

> As if to say, " Look! It is changing, much faster

> than you breathe. Don't step back, step *in*,

> fall in, dissolve in this Immediacy.

> Everything you know doesn't matter. "

>

> Just this Immediacy.

>

> Bill

>

>

>

> Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote:

> >

> > Bill -

> >

> > The brain is constructed, is organized, just as much as it constructs and

organizes.

> >

> > The patternings of energy movement " happen. "

> >

> > The causes for the patternings is just another part of the patternings.

> >

> > Our doings are patternings, our brains are patternings, our perceptions are

patternings.

> >

> > The patterns happen.

> >

> > And then they don't.

> >

> > First there is a mountain.

> >

> > Then there is no mountain.

> >

> > Then there is.

> >

> > On/off.

> >

> > Positive/negative.

> >

> > Movement/stillness.

> >

> > Energy/space.

> >

> >

> > -- Dan

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Nisargadatta , Bill Rishel <illusyn@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Nondual awakening or realization is sometimes characterized

> > > as realization of the false nature of self, " loss of self " , or

> > > liberation from the false self-concept. This article presents a

> > > point of view for interpreting this phenomenon.

> > >

> > > " Self " is in effect a " strange-attractor " . It amounts to an

> > > " organizing principle " of the brain. Note that I said *brain, not

> > > mind. For this reason freedom from " self " is not attainable by

> > > any conceptual understanding of the mind. While there is the

> > > concept of " self " , certainly, the root of self is not in the

> > > concept but in operation of the brain in terms of an ordering

> > > principle. This is a crucial point and is why freedom from the

> > > self-principle is so difficult to attain, and why conceptual

> > > understanding in particular is not up to the task. It is as if a

> > > character in a comic book were to undertake a reordering of

> > > the frames in the comic strip.

> > >

> > > So the question becomes one of altering the manner of

> > > ordering of the brain to induce a fundamental change in that

> > > ordering. Most methods of achieving that involve various

> > > " practices " , such a zazen etc., which push the brain to some

> > > kind of limit, hopefully inducing a fundamental change.

> > >

> > > In short, the transition from " self " as an organizing principle of

> > > the brain entails a transition by the brain to a (radically)

> > > different kind of ordering principle.

> > >

> > > One approach to inducing such a transition is to maintain

> > > vigilant attention to what is strictly now, the absolutely

> > > immediate present. If such a " practice " is maintained

> > > vigilantly, eventually the brain " discovers " a much simpler

> > > organizing principle, which supplants the former self-based

> > > one. This is a crucial point. It is the *brain that discovers*, not

> > > the (non-existent) " self " .

> > >

> > > When the brain undergoes such a radical transition the

> > > subjective experience is of an astounding, even violent

> > > transformation. What could be more radical? But the subjective

> > > experience of such a transition is still illusion, and in the long

> > > run unimportant. Once that shift by the brain occurs the

> > > " programming " of the system gradually undergoes thorough

> > > and pervasive revision. Over time the " choppiness of the waves

> > > of experience " subsides and a deeper and deeper harmonic

> > > resonance in experience develops. This phase could be called

> > > the " purification of the Buddha fields. " But in all of it there is

> > > only one real " event " , and that is the transition by the brain to

> > > a different organizing principle. All the rest is insignificant

> > > detail.

> > >

> > > Exactly what induces the shift by the brain to a different

> > > ordering principle is unknown. Sometimes the term " grace " is

> > > used. But it could be something as impersonal as some a kind

> > > of " butterfly effect " , some tiny factor that triggers a cascade of

> > > transformation, much as a grain of sand triggers the sudden

> > > crystallization of a super-saturated solution.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Bill

> > >

> >

>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...