Guest guest Posted May 26, 2009 Report Share Posted May 26, 2009 In a message dated 5/25/2009 10:40:48 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, lastrain writes: > **Whoa! That almost sounds like something that could really happen, at least until you look at it. Of course, in the largest context there's only one 'thing' so we can get away with all sorts of nonsense and say things like I am my big toenail, but really, experience, form is an expression of Self; a projection of Self. A projection of Self is not in a position to experience anything any more than a thought is.> > That which is expressing is that which is experiencing it's own expression, and so all of experience is the experience of an expression, not the expressor. There is no experience of Self because there is nothing that can get far enough away from Self to be an experiencer. > > Self must be realized. It is not an experience and leaves no tracks in the mind. Self is not an object of perception. The "ultimate experience" is just the result of your drug of choice, but it has little to do with Self.>Oh yes.....there's that Big self again.Do you imagine that if fulfills the same need that the imaginary gods are so good at?toombaru Okay, note to little self: 'Self not a good word to use around Toom. Too much conditioning.' Is there another word you prefer? Beingness, Isness, Awareness, Consciousness, I Am, Jan Cox? Any of those align with your belief systems? We found the real 'Hotel California' and the 'Seinfeld' diner. What will you find? Explore WhereItsAt.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2009 Report Share Posted May 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > Yes, that fits. > > > > > > The human being is an ideational format for experience. > > > > > > The body-mind serves as focus for that format. > > > > > > Registered sensations, memories collect around that imagined location. > > > > > > Death is the loss of that idea that allowed memories to be organized to construct a temporary sense of time and experience. > > > > > > -- D. > > > > Perhaps " idea " isn't the right term. Ideas are learned, and learning requires the " idea " that allows memories to be organized to construct a temporary sense of time and experience. > > > > We could, of course, say that it's all circular. There isn't a " first cause " called birth. Nothing suddenly came into existence out of nowhere. > > It's imagined. The observer separate from the observed is > imagined. Time and space are relative, and relative to the > observer. Multiple brains seem to suggest multiple observers, as does related " experiences " (memories) of folks. That doesn't seem to hold too well with " the " observer being " the " observed. But I'm aware the preceding is an observation based on memory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2009 Report Share Posted May 26, 2009 In a message dated 5/25/2009 10:47:07 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, lastrain writes: So.........there really isn't a Big self?Could you tell Phil.He seems to think it is real.toombaru **Hell, I don't even think you're real. Hehe. We found the real 'Hotel California' and the 'Seinfeld' diner. What will you find? Explore WhereItsAt.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2009 Report Share Posted May 26, 2009 In a message dated 5/25/2009 11:30:40 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, fewtch writes: > > Okay, note to little self: 'Self not a good word to use around Toom. Too > much conditioning.'> Is there another word you prefer? Beingness, Isness, Awareness, > Consciousness, I Am, Jan Cox? Any of those align with your belief systems?> He's the "nothingness / emptiness / there is no" type. ***I see. Does he know the nothingness just means no object of mind, and the emptiness is also a fullness? We found the real 'Hotel California' and the 'Seinfeld' diner. What will you find? Explore WhereItsAt.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2009 Report Share Posted May 26, 2009 In a message dated 5/26/2009 12:17:25 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, fewtch writes: > He's the "nothingness / emptiness / there is no" type.> > > > ***I see. Does he know the nothingness just means no object of mind, and > the emptiness is also a fullness?No.It's really none of my business judging folks, but from here it looks like he's reacting to words like an automaton. If I post the word "die", he'd likely keel over (whoops... hehehe). ***HA! I just said sumthin similar about a Pavlovian response. We found the real 'Hotel California' and the 'Seinfeld' diner. What will you find? Explore WhereItsAt.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2009 Report Share Posted May 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > I would imagine that it is the same experience......trying to be expressed through different experiencers. > > > > > > > > > > :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > it is not an experience. > > > > > > > > it is aware. > > > > > > > > it is awake. > > > > > > > > : D > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is the ultimate experience. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > Who or what is the experiencer? > > > > > > The gap between the experiencer and the experienced closes and one becomes the experiencing.........experiencing itself. toombaru > **Whoa! That almost sounds like something that could really happen, at least until you look at it. Of course, in the largest context there's only one 'thing' so we can get away with all sorts of nonsense and say things like I am my big toenail, but really, experience, form is an expression of Self; a projection of Self. A projection of Self is not in a position to experience anything any more than a thought is. That which is expressing is that which is experiencing it's own expression, and so all of experience is the experience of an expression, not the expressor. There is no experience of Self because there is nothing that can get far enough away from Self to be an experiencer. Self must be realized. It is not an experience and leaves no tracks in the mind. Self is not an object of perception. The " ultimate experience " is just the result of your drug of choice, but it has little to do with Self. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2009 Report Share Posted May 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > I am empty. Empty of both " you " and " me " . I am what is noticing me, wordlessly. > > > > > > The unnoticed noticer? > > > > > > The uncommented upon, that has never commented. > > > > Occasionally thought of here as " the secret self " . In a sense, a child. > > Revelation 2:17 > > He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the > churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden > manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name > written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it. The above is beautiful... a wordless 'new name'. My name is New ;-). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2009 Report Share Posted May 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Phil " <souldreamone wrote: > > That which is expressing is that which is experiencing it's own expression, and so all of experience is the experience of an expression, not the expressor. There is no experience of Self because there is nothing that can get far enough away from Self to be an > experiencer. Very well said. > Self must be realized. It is not an experience and leaves no tracks in the mind. Self is not an object of perception. The " ultimate experience " is just the result of your drug of choice, but it has > little to do with Self. Careful using the word " self " around Toomie... he's allergic to it, and the reaction is not pretty ;-). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2009 Report Share Posted May 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Phil " <souldreamone wrote: > > That which is expressing is that which is experiencing it's own expression, and so all of experience is the experience of an expression, not the expressor. There is no experience of Self because there is nothing that can get far enough away from Self to be an > experiencer. Very well said. > Self must be realized. It is not an experience and leaves no tracks in the mind. Self is not an object of perception. The " ultimate experience " is just the result of your drug of choice, but it has > little to do with Self. Careful using the word " self " around Toomie... he's allergic to it, and the reaction is not pretty ;-). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2009 Report Share Posted May 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Phil " <souldreamone wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > I would imagine that it is the same experience......trying to be expressed through different experiencers. > > > > > > > > > > > > :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > it is not an experience. > > > > > > > > > > it is aware. > > > > > > > > > > it is awake. > > > > > > > > > > : D > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is the ultimate experience. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > Who or what is the experiencer? > > > > > > > > > > > The gap between the experiencer and the experienced closes and one becomes the experiencing.........experiencing itself. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > **Whoa! That almost sounds like something that could really happen, at least until you look at it. Of course, in the largest context there's only one 'thing' so we can get away with all sorts of nonsense and say things like I am my big toenail, but really, experience, form is an expression of Self; a projection of Self. A projection of Self is not in a position to experience anything any more than a thought is. > > That which is expressing is that which is experiencing it's own expression, and so all of experience is the experience of an expression, not the expressor. There is no experience of Self because there is nothing that can get far enough away from Self to be an experiencer. > > Self must be realized. It is not an experience and leaves no tracks in the mind. Self is not an object of perception. The " ultimate experience " is just the result of your drug of choice, but it has little to do with Self. > Oh yes.....there's that Big self again. Do you imagine that if fulfills the same need that the imaginary gods are so good at? toombaru toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2009 Report Share Posted May 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Oh yes.....there's that Big self again. > > Do you imagine that if fulfills the same need that the imaginary gods > are so good at? No, I know for certain it's just a word like any other. I'm sorry to see you don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2009 Report Share Posted May 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > Oh yes.....there's that Big self again. > > > > Do you imagine that if fulfills the same need that the imaginary gods > are so good at? > > No, I know for certain it's just a word like any other. I'm sorry to > see you don't. Really, Toomie, it's annoying when someone keeps bitching about word usage. We know you don't like it. Now shut up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2009 Report Share Posted May 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > Oh yes.....there's that Big self again. > > > > Do you imagine that if fulfills the same need that the imaginary gods > are so good at? > > No, I know for certain it's just a word like any other. I'm sorry to see you don't. > So.........there really isn't a Big self? Could you tell Phil. He seems to think it is real. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2009 Report Share Posted May 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > Oh yes.....there's that Big self again. > > > > > > Do you imagine that if fulfills the same need that the imaginary gods > are so good at? > > > > No, I know for certain it's just a word like any other. I'm sorry to > see you don't. > > Really, Toomie, it's annoying when someone keeps bitching about word usage. We know you don't like it. Now shut up. > Is it comfort you seek? toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2009 Report Share Posted May 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Oh yes.....there's that Big self again. > > > > > > > > Do you imagine that if fulfills the same need that the imaginary gods > are so good at? > > > > > > No, I know for certain it's just a word like any other. I'm sorry to > see you don't. > > > > Really, Toomie, it's annoying when someone keeps bitching about word usage. We know you don't like it. Now shut up. > > > > > > Is it comfort you seek? No. Lack of unnecessary annoyances. There's truly no need to keep bitching when everyone's already heard you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2009 Report Share Posted May 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Oh yes.....there's that Big self again. > > > > > > > > > > Do you imagine that if fulfills the same need that the imaginary gods > are so good at? > > > > > > > > No, I know for certain it's just a word like any other. I'm sorry to > see you don't. > > > > > > Really, Toomie, it's annoying when someone keeps bitching about word usage. We know you don't like it. Now shut up. > > > > > > > > > > > Is it comfort you seek? > > No. Lack of unnecessary annoyances. There's truly no need to keep bitching when everyone's already heard you. > Would you prefer that I agree the delusional speculations presented? toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2009 Report Share Posted May 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh yes.....there's that Big self again. > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you imagine that if fulfills the same need that the imaginary gods > are so good at? > > > > > > > > > > No, I know for certain it's just a word like any other. I'm sorry to > see you don't. > > > > > > > > Really, Toomie, it's annoying when someone keeps bitching about word usage. We know you don't like it. Now shut up. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is it comfort you seek? > > > > No. Lack of unnecessary annoyances. There's truly no need to keep bitching when everyone's already heard you. > > > > > > > Would you prefer that I agree the delusional speculations presented? No. Just ignore what you don't like. Some folks slept through kindergarten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2009 Report Share Posted May 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote: > > No. Just ignore what you don't like. > > Some folks slept through kindergarten. Actually, Toomie, I'm taking my own advice. Those who share your desire to maintain " me " through arguing and debating with " you " will readily engage. I don't. Bye now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2009 Report Share Posted May 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh yes.....there's that Big self again. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you imagine that if fulfills the same need that the imaginary gods > are so good at? > > > > > > > > > > > > No, I know for certain it's just a word like any other. I'm sorry to > see you don't. > > > > > > > > > > Really, Toomie, it's annoying when someone keeps bitching about word usage. We know you don't like it. Now shut up. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is it comfort you seek? > > > > > > No. Lack of unnecessary annoyances. There's truly no need to keep bitching when everyone's already heard you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Would you prefer that I agree the delusional speculations presented? > > No. Just ignore what you don't like. > > Some folks slept through kindergarten. > And some sleep their entire life. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2009 Report Share Posted May 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > > And some sleep their entire life. > > > > > > toombaru Sorry to hear it, Toomie. I'm sick of the conflictful, " heavy " , suffering tone of your messages. This is my last response. Count on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2009 Report Share Posted May 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > > And some sleep their entire life. > > > > > > toombaru Sorry to hear it, Toomie. I'm sick of the conflictful, " heavy " , suffering tone of your messages. This is my last response. Count on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2009 Report Share Posted May 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , souldreamone wrote: > > > Careful using the word " self " around Toomie... he's allergic to > it, and > the reaction is not pretty ;-). > > > > ***Well, i think he's just got himself wrapped up in a mentally > created > paradox because he can't let go of the person yet as having some > kind of > reality. Not sure, but it looks like it. I dunno what the problem is, particularly when " Self " is capitalized. As words don't actually indicate truth, so we use " placeholders " and pretend they do. If he hasn't seen this yet after being around the lists this long, I dunno what will get the point across. From here, I think he's just being argumentative and conflictful because it enhances the sense of self... which is a paradox in itself, eh? Complaining about the *word* " self " to maintain a false sense of self. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2009 Report Share Posted May 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , souldreamone wrote: > > > > > In a message dated 5/25/2009 10:40:48 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, > lastrain writes: > > > **Whoa! That almost sounds like something that could really happen, at > least until you look at it. Of course, in the largest context there's only > one 'thing' so we can get away with all sorts of nonsense and say things > like I am my big toenail, but really, experience, form is an expression of > Self; a projection of Self. A projection of Self is not in a position to > experience anything any more than a thought is. > > > > That which is expressing is that which is experiencing it's own > expression, and so all of experience is the experience of an expression, not the > expressor. There is no experience of Self because there is nothing that can > get far enough away from Self to be an experiencer. > > > > Self must be realized. It is not an experience and leaves no tracks in > the mind. Self is not an object of perception. The " ultimate experience " is > just the result of your drug of choice, but it has little to do with Self. > > > > > > Oh yes.....there's that Big self again. > > Do you imagine that if fulfills the same need that the imaginary gods are > so good at? > > > > > toombaru > > > > Okay, note to little self: 'Self not a good word to use around Toom. Too > much conditioning.' > Is there another word you prefer? Beingness, Isness, Awareness, > Consciousness, I Am, Jan Cox? Any of those align with your belief systems? > He's the " nothingness / emptiness / there is no " type. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2009 Report Share Posted May 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote: > > Nisargadatta , souldreamone@ wrote: > > > > > > Careful using the word " self " around Toomie... he's allergic to > > it, and > > the reaction is not pretty ;-). > > > > > > > > ***Well, i think he's just got himself wrapped up in a mentally > > created > > paradox because he can't let go of the person yet as having some > > kind of > > reality. Not sure, but it looks like it. > > I dunno what the problem is, particularly when " Self " is capitalized. As words don't actually indicate truth, so we use " placeholders " and pretend they do. If he hasn't seen this yet after being around the lists this long, I dunno what will get the point across. From here, I think he's just being argumentative and conflictful because it enhances the sense of self... which is a paradox in itself, eh? Complaining about the *word* " self " to > maintain a false sense of self. Actually, allow me to update the above -- the word " self " is triggering off a false sense of self in Toom, which triggers him to complain about it. It's all quite nonvolitional, I'm sure... saying he's doing it to get something is not how things actually happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2009 Report Share Posted May 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , souldreamone wrote: > > > > > In a message dated 5/25/2009 11:30:40 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, > fewtch writes: > > > > > Okay, note to little self: 'Self not a good word to use around Toom. > Too > > much conditioning.' > > Is there another word you prefer? Beingness, Isness, Awareness, > > Consciousness, I Am, Jan Cox? Any of those align with your belief > systems? > > > > He's the " nothingness / emptiness / there is no " type. > > > > ***I see. Does he know the nothingness just means no object of mind, and > the emptiness is also a fullness? No. It's really none of my business judging folks, but from here it looks like he's reacting to words like an automaton. If I post the word " die " , he'd likely keel over (whoops... hehehe). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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