Guest guest Posted May 27, 2009 Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 In a message dated 5/27/2009 9:07:16 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, lastrain writes: You gotta defend your beliefs.They are the only thing you got goin for ya.toombaru ****If that what you believe, you make it real for yourself. We found the real 'Hotel California' and the 'Seinfeld' diner. What will you find? Explore WhereItsAt.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 27, 2009 Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 You gotta defend your beliefs. They are the only thing you got goin for ya. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 27, 2009 Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > > > You gotta defend your beliefs. > > They are the only thing you got goin for ya. > > > > > toombaru here's hoping :-) but.. the offense is a tough one for that defense. actually..the defending is futile. the offense will cave in on itself... leaving nothing to defend.. as there wasn't in the beginning... isn't now.. and never shall be. :-) ..b b.b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 27, 2009 Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 In a message dated 5/27/2009 12:24:58 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, pedsie6 writes: Nisargadatta , "toombaru2006" <lastrain wrote:>> > > You gotta defend your beliefs.> > They are the only thing you got goin for ya.> > > > > toombaruP: Is not only that they defend them, theydon't want to hear any others. It's like aa married man that blinds himself because hefears that seeing other women would be too tempting.And of course, you know who "they" are. Are youthinking Tim and Phil? What gave you that idea? ****It's not a matter of differences in beliefs. We all share much the same fundamental beliefs here, with few exceptions, and given that, it's a wonder we can speak so hatefully and condescendingly to each other. Oh, Werner might jump up now and then and declare 'Niz didn't quite figure this out, but I did', or Toom might pick some idea he's really attached to and say 'in this case, Niz was wrong and I'm right', but mostly we all see that the truly 'Self realized' teachers were all talking about and pointing to the same thing, and that's what we have in common, so it's not about having significantly different beliefs. What it's about is different levels of realization of the truth of those 'beliefs', together with the inability to communicate that awareness. Much of the discussions consists of multiple minds pointing at the same moon from different places on the planet, one declaring it's high in the sky, the other insisting it's close to the horizon, another claiming you need to peer closely through the haze, another saying there is no haze, or perhaps even, there is no moon. The differences in clarity present a greater obstacle to communication since those who don't see what is being pointed to must consider the one pointing deluded or a fool or a pretender or some other derogatory judgment. It's rare that one has the humility to accept the possibility that there is something to be seen that some folks can see and they have not yet seen. When it becomes important to be right and make others wrong, we can take the most subtle hair splitting and turn it into cause for deep sadness for the ignorant plight of the poor sap who doesn't agree with us. Foolishness and silliness. We found the real 'Hotel California' and the 'Seinfeld' diner. What will you find? Explore WhereItsAt.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 27, 2009 Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 In a message dated 5/27/2009 1:58:27 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, lastrain writes: Pointing to the moon is fine.......as long as there is the physical presence of a moon and presence of individual perspectives to compare their view.Pointing to that which exists only as an imaginary condition within the illusory dream of separation is an entirely different matter.There is.....within the dream......an assumption that one can somehow contort the self into a more perfect configuration through which the ultimate reality can be experienced. ****Then let go of that silly notion. No need to perfect the self and no experience to seek. It is truly akin to a character in your dreams at night telling the other dream characters that it has become enlightened and experienced the Ultimate Realty.That of which Nisargadatta speaks is far more alien to your personal consciousness than your awareness is to an gnat. ***Then let go of the notion of personal consciousness. You are not a person. The gnat's and your awareness occur in the same realm whereas the self doesn't even come in contact with the Ultimate. ***I can only assume by "Ultimate" you mean the source of all of this stuff you're talking about. So, the source of gnats doesn't even come in contact with gnats? Maybe you should rethunk that one. It is an imaginary entity that can contact only the imaginary. ***** 'It' is not an entity at all. Let go of that notion too. Put that in your dream.......and smoke it. ****Lemme know if letting go of all those silly ideas helps any, okay? We found the real 'Hotel California' and the 'Seinfeld' diner. What will you find? Explore WhereItsAt.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 27, 2009 Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > > > You gotta defend your beliefs. > > They are the only thing you got goin for ya. > > > > > toombaru P: Is not only that they defend them, they don't want to hear any others. It's like a a married man that blinds himself because he fears that seeing other women would be too tempting. And of course, you know who " they " are. Are you thinking Tim and Phil? What gave you that idea? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 27, 2009 Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 Nisargadatta , souldreamone wrote: > > > > > In a message dated 5/27/2009 12:24:58 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, > pedsie6 writes: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > You gotta defend your beliefs. > > > > They are the only thing you got goin for ya. > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > P: Is not only that they defend them, they > don't want to hear any others. It's like a > a married man that blinds himself because he > fears that seeing other women would be too tempting. > > And of course, you know who " they " are. Are you > thinking Tim and Phil? What gave you that idea? > > > > > ****It's not a matter of differences in beliefs. We all share much the > same fundamental beliefs here, with few exceptions, and given that, it's a > wonder we can speak so hatefully and condescendingly to each other. Oh, Werner > might jump up now and then and declare 'Niz didn't quite figure this out, > but I did', or Toom might pick some idea he's really attached to and say > 'in this case, Niz was wrong and I'm right', but mostly we all see that the > truly 'Self realized' teachers were all talking about and pointing to the > same thing, and that's what we have in common, so it's not about having > significantly different beliefs. > > What it's about is different levels of realization of the truth of those > 'beliefs', together with the inability to communicate that awareness. Much > of the discussions consists of multiple minds pointing at the same moon from > different places on the planet, one declaring it's high in the sky, the > other insisting it's close to the horizon, another claiming you need to peer > closely through the haze, another saying there is no haze, or perhaps even, > there is no moon. > > The differences in clarity present a greater obstacle to communication > since those who don't see what is being pointed to must consider the one > pointing deluded or a fool or a pretender or some other derogatory judgment. > It's rare that one has the humility to accept the possibility that there is > something to be seen that some folks can see and they have not yet seen. > > When it becomes important to be right and make others wrong, we can take > the most subtle hair splitting and turn it into cause for deep sadness for > the ignorant plight of the poor sap who doesn't agree with us. Foolishness > and silliness. > > > > > > Pointing to the moon is fine.......as long as there is the physical presence of a moon and presence of individual perspectives to compare their view. Pointing to that which exists only as an imaginary condition within the illusory dream of separation is an entirely different matter. There is.....within the dream......an assumption that one can somehow contort the self into a more perfect configuration through which the ultimate reality can be experienced. It is truly akin to a character in your dreams at night telling the other dream characters that it has become enlightened and experienced the Ultimate Realty. That of which Nisargadatta speaks is far more alien to your personal consciousness than your awareness is to an gnat. The gnat's and your awareness occur in the same realm whereas the self doesn't even come in contact with the Ultimate. It is an imaginary entity that can contact only the imaginary. Put that in your dream.......and smoke it. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 27, 2009 Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 Nisargadatta , souldreamone wrote: > > > > > In a message dated 5/27/2009 12:24:58 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, > pedsie6 writes: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > You gotta defend your beliefs. > > > > They are the only thing you got goin for ya. > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > P: Is not only that they defend them, they > don't want to hear any others. It's like a > a married man that blinds himself because he > fears that seeing other women would be too tempting. > > And of course, you know who " they " are. Are you > thinking Tim and Phil? What gave you that idea? > > > > > ****It's not a matter of differences in beliefs. We all share much the > same fundamental beliefs here, with few exceptions, and given that, it's a > wonder we can speak so hatefully and condescendingly to each other. Oh, Werner > might jump up now and then and declare 'Niz didn't quite figure this out, > but I did', or Toom might pick some idea he's really attached to and say > 'in this case, Niz was wrong and I'm right', but mostly we all see that the > truly 'Self realized' teachers were all talking about and pointing to the > same thing, and that's what we have in common, so it's not about having > significantly different beliefs. > > What it's about is different levels of realization of the truth of those > 'beliefs', together with the inability to communicate that awareness. Much > of the discussions consists of multiple minds pointing at the same moon from > different places on the planet, one declaring it's high in the sky, the > other insisting it's close to the horizon, another claiming you need to peer > closely through the haze, another saying there is no haze, or perhaps even, > there is no moon. > > The differences in clarity present a greater obstacle to communication > since those who don't see what is being pointed to must consider the one > pointing deluded or a fool or a pretender or some other derogatory judgment. > It's rare that one has the humility to accept the possibility that there is > something to be seen that some folks can see and they have not yet seen. > > When it becomes important to be right and make others wrong, we can take > the most subtle hair splitting and turn it into cause for deep sadness for > the ignorant plight of the poor sap who doesn't agree with us. Foolishness > and silliness. i accept your apology. :-) ..b b.b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 Nisargadatta , souldreamone wrote: > > > > > In a message dated 5/27/2009 9:07:16 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, > lastrain writes: > > > You gotta defend your beliefs. > > They are the only thing you got goin for ya. > > > > > toombaru > > > > ****If that what you believe, you make it real for yourself. Well-stated. Anyone here seen the Disney movie, " Bedknobs and Broomsticks " ? " We're at the age of not-believing... when all the make-believe is through... " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote: > > Nisargadatta , souldreamone@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 5/27/2009 9:07:16 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, > > lastrain@ writes: > > > > > > You gotta defend your beliefs. > > > > They are the only thing you got goin for ya. > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > ****If that what you believe, you make it real for yourself. > > Well-stated. > > Anyone here seen the Disney movie, " Bedknobs and Broomsticks " ? > > " We're at the age of not-believing... when all the make-believe is through... " yes disney movies have it all. but what's the connection between: " If that what you believe, you make it real for yourself. " and: " We're at the age of not-believing... when all the make-believe is through... " they do not mean the same thing. they do not connect at all. ..b b.b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.