Guest guest Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 Whos is there to awaken, if the teachings say we don't really exist? Maybe there isn't an answer to a question like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Victor Adams " <hop_devil61 wrote: > > Whos is there to awaken, if the teachings say we don't really exist? Maybe there isn't an answer to a question like that. > yes there are no answers. and this.. is no answer either. ..b b.b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 Whos is there to awaken, if the teachings say we don't really exist? Maybe there isn't an answer to a question like that. geo>When the dream of some existing entity is not awakening is. Do you feel there is an entity inside? avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090526-0, 26/05/2009 Tested on: 28/5/2009 09:49:59 avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > Whos is there to awaken, if the teachings say we don't really exist? Maybe > there isn't an answer to a question like that. > > geo>When the dream of some existing entity is not awakening is. > Do you feel there is an entity inside? feel the nonexistent by the nonexistent? " inside " ? geovani! ..b b.b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 - roberibus111 Nisargadatta Thursday, May 28, 2009 11:03 AM Re: Who or what 'Realizes'? Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > Whos is there to awaken, if the teachings say we don't really exist? Maybe > there isn't an answer to a question like that. > > geo>When the dream of some existing entity is not awakening is. > Do you feel there is an entity inside? feel the nonexistent by the nonexistent? " inside " ? geovani! ..b b.b. It seems I did not express it well. I am asking him - the poster - if he has the feeling of having an inner separate entity as if looking outside to some external world. That is the perception of the avarage man. That is Maya... so...I am asking not stating. avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090526-0, 26/05/2009 Tested on: 28/5/2009 11:12:31 avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > roberibus111 > Nisargadatta > Thursday, May 28, 2009 11:03 AM > Re: Who or what 'Realizes'? > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > Whos is there to awaken, if the teachings say we don't really exist? Maybe > > there isn't an answer to a question like that. > > > > geo>When the dream of some existing entity is not awakening is. > > Do you feel there is an entity inside? > > feel the nonexistent by the nonexistent? > > " inside " ? > > geovani! > > .b b.b. > > It seems I did not express it well. I am asking him - the poster - if he has > the feeling of having an inner separate entity as if looking outside to some > external world. That is the perception of the avarage man. That is Maya... > so...I am asking not stating. you are the answer. there is none other. ..b b.b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 >> Whos is there to awaken, if the teachings say we don't really exist? >> Maybe>> there isn't an answer to a question like that.>>>> geo>When the dream of some existing entity is not awakening is.>> Do you feel there is an entity inside?>> feel the nonexistent by the nonexistent?>> "inside"?>> geovani!>> .b b.b.>> It seems I did not express it well. I am asking him - the poster - if he > has the feeling of having an inner separate entity as if looking outside > to some external world. That is the perception of the avarage man. That is > Maya... so...I am asking not stating.BTW, existent as imagination, conditioning, by the really existing. I dont know what nonexistent is.-geo->>> >>>>>> avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean.> Virus Database (VPS): 090526-0, 26/05/2009> Tested on: 28/5/2009 11:12:31> avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. ---avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean.Virus Database (VPS): 090526-0, 26/05/2009Tested on: 28/5/2009 11:23:27avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software.http://www.avast.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 Not sure I follow these responses, but thanks. The crux of it is this. If we can only " be " who we are, and not experience who we are, then these excersizes are pointless, since there would be no goal to reach at all. Yes, I realize I'm answering my own question, in a sense. But the concept of 'realize' would seem to be meaningless. I mean, any experience would be 'not it', if I understand N's writings correctly. So, then, what is the point of the search? What is the point of he or anyone else pointing others to this 'truth'. This is all very confusing, for sure! And Nisargadatta talked a lot about his absence of fear, worry, etc. These are wonderful things. But isn't the absense of something a recognition too? And if it's a recognition we are clinging to, doesn't THAT contradict the teaching that we are to cling to nothing? Isn't that the same thing as clinging to something temporary? He also said something about the desire to have no desire being a special desire, or words to that effect. So this ONE desire is okay? What does that say about all the statements that clearly state we should cling to nothing? The very words 'should' and 'must' imply a goal, something to be attained to, etc. Ah, my mind drives me crazy! Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > >> Whos is there to awaken, if the teachings say we don't really exist? > > >> Maybe > > >> there isn't an answer to a question like that. > > >> > > >> geo>When the dream of some existing entity is not awakening is. > > >> Do you feel there is an entity inside? > > > > > > feel the nonexistent by the nonexistent? > > > > > > " inside " ? > > > > > > geovani! > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > It seems I did not express it well. I am asking him - the poster - if he > > > has the feeling of having an inner separate entity as if looking outside > > > to some external world. That is the perception of the avarage man. That is > > > Maya... so...I am asking not stating. > > > > BTW, existent as imagination, conditioning, by the really existing. I dont > > know what nonexistent is. > > -geo- > > > ah. > > but you know what the existent is in comparison? > > .b b.b. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Victor Adams " <hop_devil61 wrote: > > Not sure I follow these responses, but thanks. The crux of it is this. If we can only " be " who we are, and not experience who we are, then these excersizes are pointless, since there would be no goal to reach at all. Yes, I realize I'm answering my own question, in a sense. But the concept of 'realize' would seem to be meaningless. I mean, any experience would be 'not it', if I understand N's writings correctly. So, then, what is the point of the search? What is the point of he or anyone else pointing others to this 'truth'. > > This is all very confusing, for sure! so " what " would you like " it " all to " mean " ? what would be the point of a point? who " goes to heaven or hell " maybe? where no reason is needed none is given. that's life. it's only confusing if you try to " figure it out " . what difference would that make? what exactly are you looking for or in need of. " It " is always here. we are it's futile denial. > And Nisargadatta talked a lot about his absence of fear, worry, etc. These are wonderful things. But isn't the absense of something a recognition too? And if it's a recognition we are clinging to, doesn't THAT contradict the teaching that we are to cling to nothing? Isn't that the same thing as clinging to something temporary? > > He also said something about the desire to have no desire being a special desire, or words to that effect. So this ONE desire is okay? > What does that say about all the statements that clearly state we should cling to nothing? The very words 'should' and 'must' imply a goal, something to be attained to, etc. > > Ah, my mind drives me crazy! it's not " your " mind. it cannot " drive " you " crazy. you are not what you think. you are not what you don't think. thinking has little to do with it. ..b b.b. ************************Nothing New Below***************************** > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> Whos is there to awaken, if the teachings say we don't really exist? > > > >> Maybe > > > >> there isn't an answer to a question like that. > > > >> > > > >> geo>When the dream of some existing entity is not awakening is. > > > >> Do you feel there is an entity inside? > > > > > > > > feel the nonexistent by the nonexistent? > > > > > > > > " inside " ? > > > > > > > > geovani! > > > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > > > It seems I did not express it well. I am asking him - the poster - if he > > > > has the feeling of having an inner separate entity as if looking outside > > > > to some external world. That is the perception of the avarage man. That is > > > > Maya... so...I am asking not stating. > > > > > > BTW, existent as imagination, conditioning, by the really existing. I dont > > > know what nonexistent is. > > > -geo- > > > > > > ah. > > > > but you know what the existent is in comparison? > > > > .b b.b. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 Then why did Nisargadatta say, " You have to think your way out of it " ? (but I like your answer) Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Victor Adams " <hop_devil61@> wrote: > > > > Not sure I follow these responses, but thanks. The crux of it is this. If we can only " be " who we are, and not experience who we are, then these excersizes are pointless, since there would be no goal to reach at all. Yes, I realize I'm answering my own question, in a sense. But the concept of 'realize' would seem to be meaningless. I mean, any experience would be 'not it', if I understand N's writings correctly. So, then, what is the point of the search? What is the point of he or anyone else pointing others to this 'truth'. > > > > This is all very confusing, for sure! > > > > so " what " would you like " it " all to " mean " ? > > what would be the point of a point? > > who " goes to heaven or hell " maybe? > > where no reason is needed none is given. > > that's life. > > it's only confusing if you try to " figure it out " . > > what difference would that make? > > what exactly are you looking for or in need of. > > " It " is always here. > > we are it's futile denial. > > > > > > > And Nisargadatta talked a lot about his absence of fear, worry, etc. These are wonderful things. But isn't the absense of something a recognition too? And if it's a recognition we are clinging to, doesn't THAT contradict the teaching that we are to cling to nothing? Isn't that the same thing as clinging to something temporary? > > > > He also said something about the desire to have no desire being a special desire, or words to that effect. So this ONE desire is okay? > > What does that say about all the statements that clearly state we should cling to nothing? The very words 'should' and 'must' imply a goal, something to be attained to, etc. > > > > Ah, my mind drives me crazy! > > > > > it's not " your " mind. > > it cannot " drive " you " crazy. > > you are not what you think. > > you are not what you don't think. > > thinking has little to do with it. > > .b b.b. > > ************************Nothing New Below***************************** > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Whos is there to awaken, if the teachings say we don't really exist? > > > > >> Maybe > > > > >> there isn't an answer to a question like that. > > > > >> > > > > >> geo>When the dream of some existing entity is not awakening is. > > > > >> Do you feel there is an entity inside? > > > > > > > > > > feel the nonexistent by the nonexistent? > > > > > > > > > > " inside " ? > > > > > > > > > > geovani! > > > > > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > > > > > It seems I did not express it well. I am asking him - the poster - if he > > > > > has the feeling of having an inner separate entity as if looking outside > > > > > to some external world. That is the perception of the avarage man. That is > > > > > Maya... so...I am asking not stating. > > > > > > > > BTW, existent as imagination, conditioning, by the really existing. I dont > > > > know what nonexistent is. > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > ah. > > > > > > but you know what the existent is in comparison? > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Victor Adams " <hop_devil61 wrote: > > Not sure I follow these responses, but thanks. The crux of it is this. If we can only " be " who we are, and not experience who we are, then these excersizes are pointless, since there would be no goal to reach at all. Yes, I realize I'm answering my own question, in a sense. But the concept of 'realize' would seem to be meaningless. I mean, any experience would be 'not it', if I understand N's writings correctly. So, then, what is the point of the search? What is the point of he or anyone else pointing others to this 'truth'. > > This is all very confusing, for sure! > > And Nisargadatta talked a lot about his absence of fear, worry, etc. These are wonderful things. But isn't the absense of something a recognition too? And if it's a recognition we are clinging to, doesn't THAT contradict the teaching that we are to cling to nothing? Isn't that the same thing as clinging to something temporary? > > He also said something about the desire to have no desire being a special desire, or words to that effect. So this ONE desire is okay? > What does that say about all the statements that clearly state we should cling to nothing? The very words 'should' and 'must' imply a goal, something to be attained to, etc. > > Ah, my mind drives me crazy! The sense of self is what's searching. It is a program that evolved to search. The only problem.....is that it is searching within its own nomenclature for answers about things that exist only in its own thought. .......and it will have to go crazy before it can see that. LOL toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 - roberibus111 Nisargadatta Thursday, May 28, 2009 11:25 AM Re: Who or what 'Realizes'? Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > >> Whos is there to awaken, if the teachings say we don't really exist? > >> Maybe > >> there isn't an answer to a question like that. > >> > >> geo>When the dream of some existing entity is not awakening is. > >> Do you feel there is an entity inside? > > > > feel the nonexistent by the nonexistent? > > > > " inside " ? > > > > geovani! > > > > .b b.b. > > > > It seems I did not express it well. I am asking him - the poster - if he > > has the feeling of having an inner separate entity as if looking outside > > to some external world. That is the perception of the avarage man. That > > is > > Maya... so...I am asking not stating. > > BTW, existent as imagination, conditioning, by the really existing. I dont > know what nonexistent is. > -geo- ah. but you know what the existent is in comparison? ..b b.b. Haaa....the existent is already unknowable...now you want me to comment on your nonexistent? I'll leave that to you... -geo- avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090526-0, 26/05/2009 Tested on: 28/5/2009 11:30:33 avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 In a message dated 5/28/2009 5:45:08 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, hop_devil61 writes: Whos is there to awaken, if the teachings say we don't really exist? Maybe there isn't an answer to a question like that. ***Right, nobody awakens. Awakening is the realization there was never a person. There's a guru quote I like (Don't remember who said it) "That which was never awake must sleep, and that which was never asleep must awaken." We found the real 'Hotel California' and the 'Seinfeld' diner. What will you find? Explore WhereItsAt.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 That is worth thinking about. No PUN intended.... LOL Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Victor Adams " <hop_devil61@> wrote: > > > > Then why did Nisargadatta say, " You have to think your way out of it " ? > > > > > " You have to go back the way you came. " > > > Ramana > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Victor Adams " <hop_devil61 wrote: > > That is worth thinking about. No PUN intended.... > > LOL This is the Gordian knot trying to untie its self. When that it seen........something happens. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Victor Adams " <hop_devil61 wrote: > > That is worth thinking about. No PUN intended.... > > LOL > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Victor Adams " <hop_devil61@> wrote: > > > > > > Then why did Nisargadatta say, " You have to think your way out of it " ? > > > > > > > > > " You have to go back the way you came. " > > > > > > Ramana > > > This is the tar-baby.......struggling to get out of the tar pit. It may get out.......but it's still tar. LOL toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Victor Adams " <hop_devil61 wrote: > > That is worth thinking about. No PUN intended.... > > LOL > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Victor Adams " <hop_devil61@> wrote: > > > > > > Then why did Nisargadatta say, " You have to think your way out of it " ? > > > > > > > > > " You have to go back the way you came. " > > > > > > Ramana > > > This is like trying to wash away vomit by using more vomit. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > roberibus111 > Nisargadatta > Thursday, May 28, 2009 11:25 AM > Re: Who or what 'Realizes'? > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > >> Whos is there to awaken, if the teachings say we don't really exist? > > >> Maybe > > >> there isn't an answer to a question like that. > > >> > > >> geo>When the dream of some existing entity is not awakening is. > > >> Do you feel there is an entity inside? > > > > > > feel the nonexistent by the nonexistent? > > > > > > " inside " ? > > > > > > geovani! > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > It seems I did not express it well. I am asking him - the poster - if he > > > has the feeling of having an inner separate entity as if looking outside > > > to some external world. That is the perception of the avarage man. That > > > is > > > Maya... so...I am asking not stating. > > > > BTW, existent as imagination, conditioning, by the really existing. I dont > > know what nonexistent is. > > -geo- > > ah. > > but you know what the existent is in comparison? > > .b b.b. > > Haaa....the existent is already unknowable...now you want me to comment on > your nonexistent? > I'll leave that to you... > -geo- don't do that. i'm decedent. you'll be waiting long and long. ..b b.b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Victor Adams " <hop_devil61@> wrote: > > > > That is worth thinking about. No PUN intended.... > > > > LOL > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Victor Adams " <hop_devil61@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Then why did Nisargadatta say, " You have to think your way out of it " ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > " You have to go back the way you came. " > > > > > > > > > Ramana > > > > > > > > This is like trying to wash away vomit by using more vomit. > > > > > toombaru whew! the thinking was you were going to go with that Ramana thing... or come. :-) ..b b.b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Victor Adams " <hop_devil61 wrote: > > Then why did Nisargadatta say, " You have to think your way out of it " ? > > (but I like your answer) i don't know why i say anything let alone why Niz. did. ..b b.b. > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Victor Adams " <hop_devil61@> wrote: > > > > > > Not sure I follow these responses, but thanks. The crux of it is this. If we can only " be " who we are, and not experience who we are, then these excersizes are pointless, since there would be no goal to reach at all. Yes, I realize I'm answering my own question, in a sense. But the concept of 'realize' would seem to be meaningless. I mean, any experience would be 'not it', if I understand N's writings correctly. So, then, what is the point of the search? What is the point of he or anyone else pointing others to this 'truth'. > > > > > > This is all very confusing, for sure! > > > > > > > > so " what " would you like " it " all to " mean " ? > > > > what would be the point of a point? > > > > who " goes to heaven or hell " maybe? > > > > where no reason is needed none is given. > > > > that's life. > > > > it's only confusing if you try to " figure it out " . > > > > what difference would that make? > > > > what exactly are you looking for or in need of. > > > > " It " is always here. > > > > we are it's futile denial. > > > > > > > > > > > > > And Nisargadatta talked a lot about his absence of fear, worry, etc. These are wonderful things. But isn't the absense of something a recognition too? And if it's a recognition we are clinging to, doesn't THAT contradict the teaching that we are to cling to nothing? Isn't that the same thing as clinging to something temporary? > > > > > > He also said something about the desire to have no desire being a special desire, or words to that effect. So this ONE desire is okay? > > > What does that say about all the statements that clearly state we should cling to nothing? The very words 'should' and 'must' imply a goal, something to be attained to, etc. > > > > > > Ah, my mind drives me crazy! > > > > > > > > > > it's not " your " mind. > > > > it cannot " drive " you " crazy. > > > > you are not what you think. > > > > you are not what you don't think. > > > > thinking has little to do with it. > > > > .b b.b. > > > > ************************Nothing New Below***************************** > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Whos is there to awaken, if the teachings say we don't really exist? > > > > > >> Maybe > > > > > >> there isn't an answer to a question like that. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> geo>When the dream of some existing entity is not awakening is. > > > > > >> Do you feel there is an entity inside? > > > > > > > > > > > > feel the nonexistent by the nonexistent? > > > > > > > > > > > > " inside " ? > > > > > > > > > > > > geovani! > > > > > > > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > > > > > > > It seems I did not express it well. I am asking him - the poster - if he > > > > > > has the feeling of having an inner separate entity as if looking outside > > > > > > to some external world. That is the perception of the avarage man. That is > > > > > > Maya... so...I am asking not stating. > > > > > > > > > > BTW, existent as imagination, conditioning, by the really existing. I dont > > > > > know what nonexistent is. > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > ah. > > > > > > > > but you know what the existent is in comparison? > > > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Victor Adams " <hop_devil61@> wrote: > > > > > > That is worth thinking about. No PUN intended.... > > > > > > LOL > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Victor Adams " <hop_devil61@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Then why did Nisargadatta say, " You have to think your way out of it " ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " You have to go back the way you came. " > > > > > > > > > > > > Ramana > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is like trying to wash away vomit by using more vomit. > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > whew! > > the thinking was you were going to go with that Ramana thing... > > or come. > > :-) > > .b b.b. > LOL. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Victor Adams " <hop_devil61@> wrote: > > > > Then why did Nisargadatta say, " You have to think your way out of it " ? > > > > (but I like your answer) > > > > > i don't know why i say anything let alone why Niz. did. > > .b b.b. > > > > It came out of his mouth............but................ toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Victor Adams " <hop_devil61@> wrote: > > > > > > Then why did Nisargadatta say, " You have to think your way out of it " ? > > > > > > (but I like your answer) > > > > > > > > > > i don't know why i say anything let alone why Niz. did. > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > > > > > > > It came out of his mouth............but................ > > > toombaru :-) ..b b.b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 In a message dated 5/28/2009 7:38:54 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, hop_devil61 writes: Not sure I follow these responses, but thanks. The crux of it is this. If we can only "be" who we are, and not experience who we are, then these excersizes are pointless, since there would be no goal to reach at all. ****Realization is a fine goal. It's true we're not seeking an experience, and realization is not an experience, but the realization of what's not so (primarilly the person imagined to be having the experience) radically changes the experience of what is happening. Yes, I realize I'm answering my own question, in a sense. But the concept of 'realize' would seem to be meaningless. I mean, any experience would be 'not it', if I understand N's writings correctly. So, then, what is the point of the search? What is the point of he or anyone else pointing others to this 'truth'. ****Realization is not meaningless, except to those eaten by the Neti-Neti monster. This is all very confusing, for sure!And Nisargadatta talked a lot about his absence of fear, worry, etc. These are wonderful things. But isn't the absense of something a recognition too? And if it's a recognition we are clinging to, doesn't THAT contradict the teaching that we are to cling to nothing? Isn't that the same thing as clinging to something temporary? ***One does not cling to a realization. There's no need because it is not a concept, but a 'knowing'. You realize you have two feet, and there's no need for you to cling to the concept in order to reassure yourself it's true. He also said something about the desire to have no desire being a special desire, or words to that effect. So this ONE desire is okay?What does that say about all the statements that clearly state we should cling to nothing? The very words 'should' and 'must' imply a goal, something to be attained to, etc.Ah, my mind drives me crazy! ****The desire for freedom is what allows for the movement that finally ends in the realization that there is nobody to free. This may be the final and most powerful desire that will be released at the moment of realization. The problematic desires are the ones that keep the mind engaged with the illusion, trying to get something that can never lead to fulfillment. We found the real 'Hotel California' and the 'Seinfeld' diner. What will you find? Explore WhereItsAt.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Victor Adams " <hop_devil61 wrote: > > Whos is there to awaken, if the teachings say we don't really exist? Maybe there isn't an answer to a question like that. Indeed. It's a question posed by a dream character, thinking it would benefit from the answer to it. Being awake, the question of a dream character has no relevance, no gain. Wait, let me go back into the dream I had last night about a hungry puppy, so I can give it a can of dog food I bought today ... -- D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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