Reality of the Self

[Guest guest]

Admittedly, I haven't spent much time reading through the discussions that have been posted recently on the site, but I have been thinking about the topic of the Self for a little while now, and have been trying to pinpoint where and why some of the participants on this site seem to have so much difficulty in accepting the core reality of the Self.

So, let me say that from my perspective, most all of the opinions expressed in the discussions regarding the non-reality of the self arise out of, and then proceed and persist from within the mind's limited framework of perception and understanding. And, to me, therefore, and herein, lies the problem. No doubt, this site contains a plethora of mental giants, but the simple gist of the problem is that the mind cannot get hold of the self, and, due to the nature of the way that the mind functions, it will in fact most often act as an obstructing force that will inhibit the release that is necessary prior to the recognition and acknowledgment of the reality of the self. So, until the limitations of the mind's perceptive capacity are recognized, and acknowledged within one's own being, any discussion at this mental level essentially amounts to words being tossed back and forth. And so, when

this becomes the scope of the situation, I see discussions of this type appearing as like the dog chasing after its own tail, and continuing to go round and round in a circles, without ever having much chance of ever really making much, if any transmissions of understanding from one to the other. And to me, that is simply and unfortunately, a pitiable expenditure of time and energy.

 

Ultimately, in order to be able to receive the understanding of reality, one must be able to step outside of one's own mind, in order to recognize and acknowledge that principle which is able to look at the mind. Who sees the mind? It cannot be the mind itself. It must be that principle which encompasses the mind. So, I reiterate, in order to step out into reality, ultimately it is imperative that one must find a way to let go of the mind! This is not meant to negate the wonderful and miraculous powers of the mind. Certainly, the mind is one of the extraordinary tools of the self, but it is not the self. It is not what or who you are. And until we can make that distinction, we will continue to be caught in the web of the mind's limited and limiting assessment(s) of reality.

 

No doubt, everyone on this site has been initiated into the teachings of Nisargadatta, but the simple question that I submit to this group is 'Can you fully accept what he has said or not?' To me, his message rings loud and clear, but as it regards this issue, it is the type of message where one will not be able to waffle back and forth from one side of the fence to the other, which is very often how I see the basis from which many of these discussions proceeds. One cannot be half in and half out when it comes to this stuff.

 

Following is another direct quote from Nisargadatta. {I added a few additional comments of my own in italics}. Please think about it carefully, and decide if it resonates with you or not. If not, that is fine, but I would hope that those that feel this way would at least be willing to say so, (just to be honest) so that any future discussions regarding this issue could proceed from some agreed upon foundation or basis. And then, if you still want to talk about this stuff, I would hope that any defensiveness could be left at the door, in order to allow at least the possibility of the recognition of any inconsistencies in the argument. And then as a consequence of that, to be able to allow these thoughts to percolate within, to at least permit the possibility that the understanding might be broadened or enhanced.

 

Nisargadatta: "By limiting oneself to one body only is a mistake {I would add to this any form or even any bounded idea, such as some person or even a soul}. In reality, all existence, every form, is my own, within my consciousness. I cannot tell what I am because words can describe only what I am not. I am, and because I am, all is. But I am beyond consciousness and, therefore, in consciousness, I cannot say what I am. Yet, I am. The question, 'Who am I' has no answer. No experience can answer it, for the self is beyond experience. ...But I am the self! You imagine me {or you} as separate, hence your question. There is no 'my self' and 'his self'. There is the Self, the only Self of all. Misled by diversity of names and shapes, minds, and bodies, you imagine multiple selves. We both are the self, but you

seem unconvinced. This talk of personal self and universal self is the learner's stage; go beyond, don't be stuck in duality."

 

Here are some quotes from another 20th century teacher of advaita, Wei Wu Wei, who offers what I believe are more insights into the matter:

 

"It is necessary to understand that I Am,In order that I may know that I Am Not,So that, at last, I may realize that,I Am Not, therefore I Am."

 

 

"One must know that one is not in order to be able to understand that we are."

 

"It is only with total humility, and in absolute stillness of mindthat we can know what indeed we are."

 

" Reality alone exists - and that we are. All the rest is only a dream, a dream of the One Mind, which is our mind without the 'our'. Is it so hard to accept? Is it so difficult to assimilate and to live? "

 

 

As far as I am concerned, it comes down to this: Find out who or what you are. Inquire deeply into this mystery. Even though within this process of inquiry, the sense of the personal 'I' diminishes further and further as it ultimately approaches zero, in the end, you are still there, and will always be there, beyond any and all of the limiting conceptualizations of the mind, such as time itself. This must be true for the very simple reason that the principle which is able to realize all of this, and therefore, encompass all of this, is you. The problem only arises when we think of our self as an object, and quite simply because we are not in any way an object, we cannot ever really see our self. We, you, or I are the ultimate subject, the Self.

 

Marv

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , Marvin Moss <mmoss2932 wrote:

>

> Admittedly, I haven't spent much time reading through the

> discussions that have been posted recently on the site, but I have > been

thinking about the topic of the Self for a little while now,

> and have been trying to pinpoint where and why some of the

> participants on this site seem to have so much difficulty in

> accepting the core reality of the Self.

 

Is it possible that the one you've been trying to 'pinpoint' is you?

 

" Pinpoint " here suggests contraction, as does " making a point " . That's all

thought can do... contract 'away from' (or seemingly toward) things.

 

Looking into the 'contractor' is the answer.

 

Who's contracting this construction project? ;-).

 

Peace...