Guest guest Posted June 20, 2009 Report Share Posted June 20, 2009 Nisargadatta , Marvin Moss <mmoss2932 wrote: > > So, until the limitations of the mind's perceptive capacity are recognized, and acknowledged within one's own being, any discussion at this mental level essentially amounts to words being tossed back and forth. And so, when this becomes the scope of the situation, I > see discussions of this type appearing as like the dog chasing after its own tail, and continuing to go round and round in a circles, without ever having much chance of ever really making much, if any transmissions of understanding from one to the other. And to me, that is simply and unfortunately, a pitiable expenditure of time > and energy. Who are you telling this to? If others are oneself, consider the possibility that you're telling yourself. > No doubt, everyone on this site has been initiated into the > teachings of Nisargadatta, but the simple question that I submit to > this group is 'Can you fully accept what he has said or not?' Certainly. From here, there's little he's said that doesn't resonate perfectly. > To me, his message rings loud and clear, but as it regards this > issue, it is the type of message where one will not be able to > waffle back and forth from one side of the fence to the other, > which is very often how I see the basis from which many of these > discussions proceeds. One cannot be half in and half out when it > comes to this stuff. You're right... as Dan discussed on the earlier days of the list, 'urgency' is imperative, and it's either around or it's not. It can't be made to happen. > Nisargadatta: " By limiting oneself to one body only is a mistake {I would add to this any form or even any bounded idea, such as some person or even a soul}. In reality, all existence, every form, is my own, within my consciousness. I cannot tell what I am because words can describe only what I am not. I am, and because I am, all is. But I am beyond consciousness and, therefore, in consciousness, I cannot say what I am. Yet, I am. The question, 'Who am I' has no answer. No experience can answer it, for the self is beyond experience. > ...But I am the self! You imagine me {or you} as separate, hence your question. There is no 'my self' and 'his self'. There is the Self, the only Self of all. Misled by diversity of names and shapes, minds, and bodies, you imagine multiple selves. We both are the self, but you seem unconvinced. This talk of personal self and universal self is the learner's stage; go beyond, don't be stuck in > duality. " Thank you... yes, this resonates very well here. One could go back and read it again. > As far as I am concerned, it comes down to this: Find out who or > what you are. Inquire deeply into this mystery. Even though > within this process of inquiry, the sense of the personal 'I' > diminishes further and further as it ultimately approaches zero, in > the end, you are still there, and will always be there, beyond any > and all of the limiting conceptualizations of the mind, such as > time itself. Hopefully one won't be there, or always be there, as " one " is only fear, avoidance and craving. That's all there is to the 'I am'. > The problem only arises when we think of our self as an object, Yes, when we objectify ourselves, and others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 20, 2009 Report Share Posted June 20, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote: > > Nisargadatta , Marvin Moss <mmoss2932@> wrote: > > > > So, until the limitations of the mind's perceptive capacity are recognized, and acknowledged within one's own being, any discussion at this mental level essentially amounts to words being tossed back and forth. And so, when this becomes the scope of the situation, I > > see discussions of this type appearing as like the dog chasing after its own tail, and continuing to go round and round in a circles, without ever having much chance of ever really making much, if any transmissions of understanding from one to the other. And to me, that is simply and unfortunately, a pitiable expenditure of time > and energy. > > Who are you telling this to? > > If others are oneself, consider the possibility that you're telling yourself. > > > No doubt, everyone on this site has been initiated into the > > teachings of Nisargadatta, but the simple question that I submit to > this group is 'Can you fully accept what he has said or not?' > > Certainly. From here, there's little he's said that doesn't resonate perfectly. > > > To me, his message rings loud and clear, but as it regards this > > issue, it is the type of message where one will not be able to > > waffle back and forth from one side of the fence to the other, > > which is very often how I see the basis from which many of these > > discussions proceeds. One cannot be half in and half out when it > > comes to this stuff. > > You're right... as Dan discussed on the earlier days of the list, 'urgency' is imperative, and it's either around or it's not. It can't be made to happen. > > > Nisargadatta: " By limiting oneself to one body only is a mistake {I would add to this any form or even any bounded idea, such as some person or even a soul}. In reality, all existence, every form, is my own, within my consciousness. I cannot tell what I am because words can describe only what I am not. I am, and because I am, all is. But I am beyond consciousness and, therefore, in consciousness, I cannot say what I am. Yet, I am. The question, 'Who am I' has no answer. No experience can answer it, for the self is beyond experience. > > ...But I am the self! You imagine me {or you} as separate, hence your question. There is no 'my self' and 'his self'. There is the Self, the only Self of all. Misled by diversity of names and shapes, minds, and bodies, you imagine multiple selves. We both are the self, but you seem unconvinced. This talk of personal self and universal self is the learner's stage; go beyond, don't be stuck in > > duality. " > > Thank you... yes, this resonates very well here. One could go back and read it again. > > > As far as I am concerned, it comes down to this: Find out who or > > what you are. Inquire deeply into this mystery. Even though > > within this process of inquiry, the sense of the personal 'I' > > diminishes further and further as it ultimately approaches zero, in > the end, you are still there, and will always be there, beyond any > and all of the limiting conceptualizations of the mind, such as > > time itself. > > Hopefully one won't be there, or always be there, as " one " is only fear, avoidance and craving. That's all there is to the 'I am'. > > > The problem only arises when we think of our self as an object, > > Yes, when we objectify ourselves, and others. Or when we accidentally scrape our shin on a table. - Dan - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 20, 2009 Report Share Posted June 20, 2009 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > > Yes, when we objectify ourselves, and others. > > Or when we accidentally scrape our shin on a table. > > - Dan - Or when we anticipate accidentally scraping our shin on a table, now ;-). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 20, 2009 Report Share Posted June 20, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > Yes, when we objectify ourselves, and others. > > > > Or when we accidentally scrape our shin on a table. > > > > - Dan - > > Or when we anticipate accidentally scraping our shin on a table, > now ;-). From here, " direct physical pain " is an interesting case, actually. It's one where nearly everyone instantly goes into " avoidance mode " from, trying to get away from 'now'. Is that not the pain itself? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 20, 2009 Report Share Posted June 20, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > Yes, when we objectify ourselves, and others. > > > > > > Or when we accidentally scrape our shin on a table. > > > > > > - Dan - > > > > Or when we anticipate accidentally scraping our shin on a table, > > now ;-). > > From here, " direct physical pain " is an interesting case, actually. It's one where nearly everyone instantly goes into " avoidance mode " from, trying to get away from 'now'. > > Is that not the pain itself? yes, it tends to split into a reactor to the pain, and the pain itself assuming a distance (which is a desire for distance) rather than just *sensation of pain occurring* desire and aversion are the same dynamic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 20, 2009 Report Share Posted June 20, 2009 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Yes, when we objectify ourselves, and others. > > > > > > > > Or when we accidentally scrape our shin on a table. > > > > > > > > - Dan - > > > > > > Or when we anticipate accidentally scraping our shin on a table, > > > now ;-). > > > > From here, " direct physical pain " is an interesting case, actually. It's one where nearly everyone instantly goes into " avoidance mode " from, trying to get away from 'now'. > > > > Is that not the pain itself? > > yes, it tends to split into a reactor to the pain, and the pain itself > > assuming a distance (which is a desire for distance) > > rather than just > > *sensation of pain occurring* > > desire and aversion are the same dynamic Yes, that makes sense... desire could be looked at " wanting to get away from now " equally as accurately as " wanting to get to a projected future " . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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