Guest guest Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 In socalled " spiritual " books and in lists or fora like this here one so often can read about the need for the elimination or the killing of ego or self. The idea of ego-killing has its origin in a misunderstanding. The ego or self which is just another word for one's accumulated past stored up in memory combined with one's specific survival strategies. When growing up we more and more learn that the social survival strategy expressed in our need to be attractive and to catch the attention and approval of others gets questioned and uudermined by competitors who just want the same. The tention between one's attractivity strategies and the constant threat of competitors creates the verbally self-refering I-thought or self-consciousness. And it is this self-consciousness which is the base of conflicts which gets confused with the storehouse of one's past called self. Therefore it is not the killing of the ego or self which is of interest but the ending or self-consciousness. Werner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > In socalled " spiritual " books and in lists or fora like this here one so often can read about the need for the elimination or the killing of ego or self. The idea of ego-killing has its origin in a misunderstanding. > > The ego or self which is just another word for one's accumulated past stored up in memory combined with one's specific survival strategies. > > When growing up we more and more learn that the social survival strategy expressed in our need to be attractive and to catch the attention and approval of others gets questioned and uudermined by competitors who just want the same. > > The tention between one's attractivity strategies and the constant threat of competitors creates the verbally self-refering I-thought or self-consciousness. > > And it is this self-consciousness which is the base of conflicts which gets confused with the storehouse of one's past called self. > > Therefore it is not the killing of the ego or self which is of interest but the ending or self-consciousness. > > Werner you're such a failure then. ..b b.b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > In socalled " spiritual " books and in lists or fora like this here one so often can read about the need for the elimination or the killing of ego or self. The idea of ego-killing has its origin in a misunderstanding. > > > > The ego or self which is just another word for one's accumulated past stored up in memory combined with one's specific survival strategies. > > > > When growing up we more and more learn that the social survival strategy expressed in our need to be attractive and to catch the attention and approval of others gets questioned and uudermined by competitors who just want the same. > > > > The tention between one's attractivity strategies and the constant threat of competitors creates the verbally self-refering I-thought or self-consciousness. > > > > And it is this self-consciousness which is the base of conflicts which gets confused with the storehouse of one's past called self. > > > > Therefore it is not the killing of the ego or self which is of interest but the ending or self-consciousness. > > > > Werner > > > you're such a failure then. > > .b b.b. actually wernie you're so much more! you're UNintresting. that keeps that self-consciousness killing thing at bay huh? we'll always have our werners in the world. ..b b.b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > In socalled " spiritual " books and in lists or fora like this here one so often can read about the need for the elimination or the killing of ego or self. The idea of ego-killing has its origin in a misunderstanding. > > The ego or self which is just another word for one's accumulated past stored up in memory combined with one's specific survival strategies. > > When growing up we more and more learn that the social survival strategy expressed in our need to be attractive and to catch the attention and approval of others gets questioned and uudermined by competitors who just want the same. > > The tention between one's attractivity strategies and the constant threat of competitors creates the verbally self-refering I-thought or self-consciousness. > > And it is this self-consciousness which is the base of conflicts which gets confused with the storehouse of one's past called self. > > Therefore it is not the killing of the ego or self which is of interest but the ending or self-consciousness. > > Werner What is of interest is clear understanding of memory function, and how it is mistaken as constructing reality. - D - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > In socalled " spiritual " books and in lists or fora like this here one so often can read about the need for the elimination or the killing of ego or self. The idea of ego-killing has its origin in a misunderstanding. > > > > The ego or self which is just another word for one's accumulated past stored up in memory combined with one's specific survival strategies. > > > > When growing up we more and more learn that the social survival strategy expressed in our need to be attractive and to catch the attention and approval of others gets questioned and uudermined by competitors who just want the same. > > > > The tention between one's attractivity strategies and the constant threat of competitors creates the verbally self-refering I-thought or self-consciousness. > > > > And it is this self-consciousness which is the base of conflicts which gets confused with the storehouse of one's past called self. > > > > Therefore it is not the killing of the ego or self which is of interest but the ending or self-consciousness. > > > > Werner > > What is of interest is clear understanding of memory function, and how it is mistaken as constructing reality. > > - D - > Hm, 'clear understanding', Dan ? Can you eventually explain what is 'unclear understanding' ? That might help me to understand what is 'clear understand' because I have no idea what that is and how to get it. Then next question is - how can the memory function be mistaken as constructing reality ? Allow me to cite J.K.: 'There are as many realities as there are people'. His statement makes sense because reality is a very subjective thing and there is no reality which all people are sharing. What one might expereince as reality is only what consciousness allows to experience and that is very limited because consciousness is totally subjective and limited. Werner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 - Werner Woehr Nisargadatta Tuesday, June 23, 2009 2:52 PM Re: Self-consciousness Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > In socalled " spiritual " books and in lists or fora like this here one so > > often can read about the need for the elimination or the killing of ego > > or self. The idea of ego-killing has its origin in a misunderstanding. > > > > The ego or self which is just another word for one's accumulated past > > stored up in memory combined with one's specific survival strategies. > > > > When growing up we more and more learn that the social survival strategy > > expressed in our need to be attractive and to catch the attention and > > approval of others gets questioned and uudermined by competitors who > > just want the same. > > > > The tention between one's attractivity strategies and the constant > > threat of competitors creates the verbally self-refering I-thought or > > self-consciousness. > > > > And it is this self-consciousness which is the base of conflicts which > > gets confused with the storehouse of one's past called self. > > > > Therefore it is not the killing of the ego or self which is of interest > > but the ending or self-consciousness. > > > > Werner > > What is of interest is clear understanding of memory function, and how it > is mistaken as constructing reality. > > - D - > Hm, 'clear understanding', Dan ? Can you eventually explain what is 'unclear understanding' ? That might help me to understand what is 'clear understand' because I have no idea what that is and how to get it. Then next question is - how can the memory function be mistaken as constructing reality ? Allow me to cite J.K.: 'There are as many realities as there are people'. His statement makes sense because reality is a very subjective thing and there is no reality which all people are sharing. What one might expereince as reality is only what consciousness allows to experience and that is very limited because consciousness is totally subjective and limited. Werner But dear...K's definition for reallity is simillar to consicousness - it is the illusion. That is why there are as many illusions as people. -ego- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > In socalled " spiritual " books and in lists or fora like this here one so often can read about the need for the elimination or the killing of ego or self. The idea of ego-killing has its origin in a misunderstanding. > > > > > > The ego or self which is just another word for one's accumulated past stored up in memory combined with one's specific survival strategies. > > > > > > When growing up we more and more learn that the social survival strategy expressed in our need to be attractive and to catch the attention and approval of others gets questioned and uudermined by competitors who just want the same. > > > > > > The tention between one's attractivity strategies and the constant threat of competitors creates the verbally self-refering I-thought or self-consciousness. > > > > > > And it is this self-consciousness which is the base of conflicts which gets confused with the storehouse of one's past called self. > > > > > > Therefore it is not the killing of the ego or self which is of interest but the ending or self-consciousness. > > > > > > Werner > > > > What is of interest is clear understanding of memory function, and how it is mistaken as constructing reality. > > > > - D - > > > > > Hm, 'clear understanding', Dan ? > > Can you eventually explain what is 'unclear understanding' ? D: unclear understanding is when one mistakes the memory construction for what is so and when one misunderstands the memory-constructed knower as actually the knower > That might help me to understand what is 'clear understand' because I have no idea what that is and how to get it. D: it is a disinvestment in memory process > Then next question is - how can the memory function be mistaken as constructing reality ? D: by misinterpreting, misunderstanding. by being drawn into memory constructed drama, as if. by establishing belief as a means to exist. > Allow me to cite J.K.: 'There are as many realities as there are people'. > His statement makes sense because reality is a very subjective thing and there is no reality which all people are sharing. What one might expereince as reality is only what consciousness allows to experience and that is very limited because consciousness is totally subjective and limited. D: Who or what knows what consciousness is, and can label it as subjective and limited? Is memory able to make this assessment? No, memory is the limitation. Yet the labels " subjective " and " limited " depend on memory for their sense of meaning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > Werner Woehr > Nisargadatta > Tuesday, June 23, 2009 2:52 PM > Re: Self-consciousness > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > In socalled " spiritual " books and in lists or fora like this here one so > > > often can read about the need for the elimination or the killing of ego > > > or self. The idea of ego-killing has its origin in a misunderstanding. > > > > > > The ego or self which is just another word for one's accumulated past > > > stored up in memory combined with one's specific survival strategies. > > > > > > When growing up we more and more learn that the social survival strategy > > > expressed in our need to be attractive and to catch the attention and > > > approval of others gets questioned and uudermined by competitors who > > > just want the same. > > > > > > The tention between one's attractivity strategies and the constant > > > threat of competitors creates the verbally self-refering I-thought or > > > self-consciousness. > > > > > > And it is this self-consciousness which is the base of conflicts which > > > gets confused with the storehouse of one's past called self. > > > > > > Therefore it is not the killing of the ego or self which is of interest > > > but the ending or self-consciousness. > > > > > > Werner > > > > What is of interest is clear understanding of memory function, and how it > > is mistaken as constructing reality. > > > > - D - > > > > Hm, 'clear understanding', Dan ? > > Can you eventually explain what is 'unclear understanding' ? That might help > me to understand what is 'clear understand' because I have no idea what that > is and how to get it. > > Then next question is - how can the memory function be mistaken as > constructing reality ? > > Allow me to cite J.K.: 'There are as many realities as there are people'. > > His statement makes sense because reality is a very subjective thing and > there is no reality which all people are sharing. What one might expereince > as reality is only what consciousness allows to experience and that is very > limited because consciousness is totally subjective and limited. > > Werner > > But dear...K's definition for reallity is simillar to consicousness - it is > the illusion. That is why there are as many illusions as people. > -ego- > Yes Geo, that makes sense, But what is beyond illusion ? Do we have any access to that ? It seems that the only we know is illusion and what lies beyond illusion we don't and cannot know - at least I don't. And so we have to meet and commune by means of illusion and yet - strangely enough, we constntly speak of 'Truth', 'Reality', 'Clarity' and so on and we beave as we are all-knowing gods. Werner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 - Werner Woehr Nisargadatta Tuesday, June 23, 2009 4:49 PM Re: Self-consciousness Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > Werner Woehr > Nisargadatta > Tuesday, June 23, 2009 2:52 PM > Re: Self-consciousness > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > In socalled " spiritual " books and in lists or fora like this here one > > > so > > > often can read about the need for the elimination or the killing of > > > ego > > > or self. The idea of ego-killing has its origin in a misunderstanding. > > > > > > The ego or self which is just another word for one's accumulated past > > > stored up in memory combined with one's specific survival strategies. > > > > > > When growing up we more and more learn that the social survival > > > strategy > > > expressed in our need to be attractive and to catch the attention and > > > approval of others gets questioned and uudermined by competitors who > > > just want the same. > > > > > > The tention between one's attractivity strategies and the constant > > > threat of competitors creates the verbally self-refering I-thought or > > > self-consciousness. > > > > > > And it is this self-consciousness which is the base of conflicts which > > > gets confused with the storehouse of one's past called self. > > > > > > Therefore it is not the killing of the ego or self which is of > > > interest > > > but the ending or self-consciousness. > > > > > > Werner > > > > What is of interest is clear understanding of memory function, and how > > it > > is mistaken as constructing reality. > > > > - D - > > > > Hm, 'clear understanding', Dan ? > > Can you eventually explain what is 'unclear understanding' ? That might > help > me to understand what is 'clear understand' because I have no idea what > that > is and how to get it. > > Then next question is - how can the memory function be mistaken as > constructing reality ? > > Allow me to cite J.K.: 'There are as many realities as there are people'. > > His statement makes sense because reality is a very subjective thing and > there is no reality which all people are sharing. What one might > expereince > as reality is only what consciousness allows to experience and that is > very > limited because consciousness is totally subjective and limited. > > Werner > > But dear...K's definition for reallity is simillar to consicousness - it > is > the illusion. That is why there are as many illusions as people. > -ego- > Yes Geo, that makes sense, But what is beyond illusion ? Do we have any access to that ? It seems that the only we know is illusion and what lies beyond illusion we don't and cannot know - at least I don't. -werner- Be humble to accept the possibility to see something differently then what you are used to. There is not the slightest possibility to " know " what lies beyond illusion. We agree. If anybody claims the contrary he is just a joke. But what is to " know " ? It is invariably a dynamic movement of memory contents. Lets us not complicate that because we agree on that also. So knowledge is dicarded. OK? NOw...how to proceed? I am all this that is going on (memory, thought, or....consciousness as per K). There is no way to see something from within the boundaries of consciousnes that could be outside of it. Agree up to here? -geo- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > In socalled " spiritual " books and in lists or fora like this here one so often can read about the need for the elimination or the killing of ego or self. The idea of ego-killing has its origin in a misunderstanding. > > > > > > The ego or self which is just another word for one's accumulated past stored up in memory combined with one's specific survival strategies. > > > > > > When growing up we more and more learn that the social survival strategy expressed in our need to be attractive and to catch the attention and approval of others gets questioned and uudermined by competitors who just want the same. > > > > > > The tention between one's attractivity strategies and the constant threat of competitors creates the verbally self-refering I-thought or self-consciousness. > > > > > > And it is this self-consciousness which is the base of conflicts which gets confused with the storehouse of one's past called self. > > > > > > Therefore it is not the killing of the ego or self which is of interest but the ending or self-consciousness. > > > > > > Werner > > > > What is of interest is clear understanding of memory function, and how it is mistaken as constructing reality. > > > > - D - > > > > > Hm, 'clear understanding', Dan ? > > Can you eventually explain what is 'unclear understanding' ? That might help me to understand what is 'clear understand' because I have no idea what that is and how to get it. > > Then next question is - how can the memory function be mistaken as constructing reality ? > > Allow me to cite J.K.: 'There are as many realities as there are people'. > > His statement makes sense because reality is a very subjective thing and there is no reality which all people are sharing. What one might expereince as reality is only what consciousness allows to experience and that is very limited because consciousness is totally subjective and limited. > > Werner anything that makes objective sense to the subjective unreal.. is nonsense. that's what's so fun about you werner. nonsense is funny. ..b b.b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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