Guest guest Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 The sweetness is the nature of sugar; but that sweetness is there only so long as the sugar is present. Once the sugar has been consumed or thrown away, there is no more sweetness. So this knowledge " I am, " this consciousness, this feeling or sense of Being, is the quintessence of the body. And if that body essence is gone, this feeling, the sense of Being, will also have gone. This sense of Being cannot remeain without the body, just as sweetness cannot remain without the material, which is sugar. Visitor: What remains then? Maharaj: What remains is the Original, which is unconditioned, without attributes, and without identity: that on which this temporary state of the consciousness and the three states and the three gunas have come and gone. It is called Parabrahman, the Absolute. This is my basic teaching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 - dan330033 Nisargadatta Thursday, July 02, 2009 4:35 PM Re: Without Attributes - From " I Am That " The sweetness is the nature of sugar; but that sweetness is there only so long as the sugar is present. Once the sugar has been consumed or thrown away, there is no more sweetness. So this knowledge " I am, " this consciousness, this feeling or sense of Being, is the quintessence of the body. And if that body essence is gone, this feeling, the sense of Being, will also have gone. This sense of Being cannot remeain without the body, just as sweetness cannot remain without the material, which is sugar. Visitor: What remains then? Maharaj: What remains is the Original, which is unconditioned, without attributes, and without identity: that on which this temporary state of the consciousness and the three states and the three gunas have come and gone. It is called Parabrahman, the Absolute. This is my basic teaching. === It is really simple, but the quantum leap is the grasping of the unconditioned, qualitiless, is-ness. Though, concepts, the senses, rationality, logic...alla those seem to " stand in the way " of real understanding. They can take one to the border....then...silence. -ego- avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090526-0, 26/05/2009 Tested on: 2/7/2009 16:41:14 avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 - dan330033 Nisargadatta Thursday, July 02, 2009 4:35 PM Re: Without Attributes - From " I Am That " The sweetness is the nature of sugar; but that sweetness is there only so long as the sugar is present. Once the sugar has been consumed or thrown away, there is no more sweetness. So this knowledge " I am, " this consciousness, this feeling or sense of Being, is the quintessence of the body. And if that body essence is gone, this feeling, the sense of Being, will also have gone. This sense of Being cannot remeain without the body, just as sweetness cannot remain without the material, which is sugar. Visitor: What remains then? Maharaj: What remains is the Original, which is unconditioned, without attributes, and without identity: that on which this temporary state of the consciousness and the three states and the three gunas have come and gone. It is called Parabrahman, the Absolute. This is my basic teaching. === ....and without the sugar even the taster of sweetness is non-graspable. Paradoxicaly the sugar is needed in order to the taster of sugar to be....grasped?...revealed?...be-ed?....it-ed?..... -egg- avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090526-0, 26/05/2009 Tested on: 2/7/2009 16:41:14 avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 - geo Nisargadatta Thursday, July 02, 2009 4:49 PM Re: Re: Without Attributes - From " I Am That " - dan330033 Nisargadatta Thursday, July 02, 2009 4:35 PM Re: Without Attributes - From " I Am That " The sweetness is the nature of sugar; but that sweetness is there only so long as the sugar is present. Once the sugar has been consumed or thrown away, there is no more sweetness. So this knowledge " I am, " this consciousness, this feeling or sense of Being, is the quintessence of the body. And if that body essence is gone, this feeling, the sense of Being, will also have gone. This sense of Being cannot remeain without the body, just as sweetness cannot remain without the material, which is sugar. Visitor: What remains then? Maharaj: What remains is the Original, which is unconditioned, without attributes, and without identity: that on which this temporary state of the consciousness and the three states and the three gunas have come and gone. It is called Parabrahman, the Absolute. This is my basic teaching. === It is really simple, but the quantum leap is the grasping of the unconditioned, qualitiless, is-ness. Though, concepts, the senses, rationality, logic...alla those seem to " stand in the way " of real understanding. They can take one to the border....then...silence. Thought, not though (correction) -ego- avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090526-0, 26/05/2009 Tested on: 2/7/2009 16:41:14 avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090526-0, 26/05/2009 Tested on: 2/7/2009 16:54:42 avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > dan330033 > Nisargadatta > Thursday, July 02, 2009 4:35 PM > Re: Without Attributes - From " I Am That " > > > > > > The sweetness is the nature of sugar; > but that sweetness is there only so long as the sugar is present. Once the > sugar has been consumed or thrown away, there is no more sweetness. So this > knowledge " I am, " this consciousness, this feeling or sense of Being, is the > quintessence of the body. And if that body essence is gone, this feeling, > the sense of Being, will also have gone. This sense of Being cannot remeain > without the body, just as sweetness cannot remain without the material, > which is sugar. > > Visitor: What remains then? > > Maharaj: What remains is the Original, which is unconditioned, without > attributes, and without identity: that on which this temporary state of the > consciousness and the three states and the three gunas have come and gone. > It is called Parabrahman, the Absolute. > > This is my basic teaching. > === > It is really simple, but the quantum leap is the grasping of the > unconditioned, qualitiless, is-ness. Though, concepts, the senses, > rationality, logic...alla those seem to " stand in the way " of real > understanding. They can take one to the border....then...silence. > -ego- Yes, one comes to a boundary, a limit. The " barrier that is no barrier " is the term in Zen. Not even is-ness. Quality-less. Dimensionless. Nothing for thought to grasp, or even to sense. Where reality turns inside out. And yet, day to day life is as it is. -- D -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 - dan330033 Nisargadatta Thursday, July 02, 2009 5:05 PM Re: Without Attributes - From " I Am That " Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > dan330033 > Nisargadatta > Thursday, July 02, 2009 4:35 PM > Re: Without Attributes - From " I Am That " > > > > > > The sweetness is the nature of sugar; > but that sweetness is there only so long as the sugar is present. Once the > sugar has been consumed or thrown away, there is no more sweetness. So > this > knowledge " I am, " this consciousness, this feeling or sense of Being, is > the > quintessence of the body. And if that body essence is gone, this feeling, > the sense of Being, will also have gone. This sense of Being cannot > remeain > without the body, just as sweetness cannot remain without the material, > which is sugar. > > Visitor: What remains then? > > Maharaj: What remains is the Original, which is unconditioned, without > attributes, and without identity: that on which this temporary state of > the > consciousness and the three states and the three gunas have come and gone. > It is called Parabrahman, the Absolute. > > This is my basic teaching. > === > It is really simple, but the quantum leap is the grasping of the > unconditioned, qualitiless, is-ness. Though, concepts, the senses, > rationality, logic...alla those seem to " stand in the way " of real > understanding. They can take one to the border....then...silence. > -ego- Yes, one comes to a boundary, a limit. The " barrier that is no barrier " is the term in Zen. Not even is-ness. Quality-less. Dimensionless. Nothing for thought to grasp, or even to sense. Where reality turns inside out. And yet, day to day life is as it is. -- D -- Not to leave this " grasping " too...esoteric... and I have werner in mind here, there seems to be a need to see the difference between " total-no-existence-at-all " and the " ground-of-all-possible-existence-per-se " . On a physical level: space without a plane to stand on....and....space with a virtual non-material plane to stand on. ...but, these are all ridiculous analogies... -geo- avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090526-0, 26/05/2009 Tested on: 2/7/2009 17:09:35 avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > dan330033 > Nisargadatta > Thursday, July 02, 2009 4:35 PM > Re: Without Attributes - From " I Am That " > > > > > > The sweetness is the nature of sugar; > but that sweetness is there only so long as the sugar is present. Once the > sugar has been consumed or thrown away, there is no more sweetness. So this > knowledge " I am, " this consciousness, this feeling or sense of Being, is the > quintessence of the body. And if that body essence is gone, this feeling, > the sense of Being, will also have gone. This sense of Being cannot remeain > without the body, just as sweetness cannot remain without the material, > which is sugar. > > Visitor: What remains then? > > Maharaj: What remains is the Original, which is unconditioned, without > attributes, and without identity: that on which this temporary state of the > consciousness and the three states and the three gunas have come and gone. > It is called Parabrahman, the Absolute. > > This is my basic teaching. > === > ...and without the sugar even the taster of sweetness is non-graspable. > Paradoxicaly the sugar is needed in order to the taster of sugar to > be....grasped?...revealed?...be-ed?....it-ed?..... > -egg- Yes, the taster arises nonvolitionally with the tasting and the sugar being tasted. We have a habit of referring to " I " as an ongoing entity that chooses things. " I am going to buy some sugar, because I want to taste something sweet. " This has common-sense utility. It is obvious why this kind of reference is used. It is useful for thought, in planning a trip to the grocery store, making sure there is enough money, a way to get to the store. So, the " I " isn't bad or to be gotten rid of. It is seen through. As awareness is immediate, discontinuous, the taster arises with the tasting with the sugar. The thought for planning the trip to the store, also arose with the hand reaching into the pocket to make sure the wallet was there, the hand that put the key into the ignition of the car. Momentary, immediate arisings, nondivided, consciousness/object of consciousness. All nonvolitional. No exceptions. - d - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > dan330033 > Nisargadatta > Thursday, July 02, 2009 5:05 PM > Re: Without Attributes - From " I Am That " > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > dan330033 > > Nisargadatta > > Thursday, July 02, 2009 4:35 PM > > Re: Without Attributes - From " I Am That " > > > > > > > > > > > > The sweetness is the nature of sugar; > > but that sweetness is there only so long as the sugar is present. Once the > > sugar has been consumed or thrown away, there is no more sweetness. So > > this > > knowledge " I am, " this consciousness, this feeling or sense of Being, is > > the > > quintessence of the body. And if that body essence is gone, this feeling, > > the sense of Being, will also have gone. This sense of Being cannot > > remeain > > without the body, just as sweetness cannot remain without the material, > > which is sugar. > > > > Visitor: What remains then? > > > > Maharaj: What remains is the Original, which is unconditioned, without > > attributes, and without identity: that on which this temporary state of > > the > > consciousness and the three states and the three gunas have come and gone. > > It is called Parabrahman, the Absolute. > > > > This is my basic teaching. > > === > > It is really simple, but the quantum leap is the grasping of the > > unconditioned, qualitiless, is-ness. Though, concepts, the senses, > > rationality, logic...alla those seem to " stand in the way " of real > > understanding. They can take one to the border....then...silence. > > -ego- > > Yes, one comes to a boundary, a limit. > > The " barrier that is no barrier " is the term in Zen. > > Not even is-ness. > > Quality-less. > > Dimensionless. > > Nothing for thought to grasp, or even to sense. > > Where reality turns inside out. > > And yet, day to day life is as it is. > > -- D -- > > Not to leave this " grasping " too...esoteric... and I have werner in mind > here, there seems to be a need to see the difference between > " total-no-existence-at-all " and the > " ground-of-all-possible-existence-per-se " . On a physical level: space > without a plane to stand on....and....space with a virtual non-material > plane to stand on. ...but, these are all ridiculous analogies... > -geo- a metaphor i like is the black hole/white hole the point prior to the big bang/after the collapse of the universe infinity in/as a point and prior to that point? neither is nor is not apply time doesn't apply this point isn't a matter of before or after anything " anything " is an imaginary reference point " something " is an imaginary reference point " i am " is an imaginary reference point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 - dan330033 Nisargadatta Thursday, July 02, 2009 5:51 PM Re: Without Attributes - From " I Am That " Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > dan330033 > Nisargadatta > Thursday, July 02, 2009 5:05 PM > Re: Without Attributes - From " I Am That " > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > dan330033 > > Nisargadatta > > Thursday, July 02, 2009 4:35 PM > > Re: Without Attributes - From " I Am That " > > > > > > > > > > > > The sweetness is the nature of sugar; > > but that sweetness is there only so long as the sugar is present. Once > > the > > sugar has been consumed or thrown away, there is no more sweetness. So > > this > > knowledge " I am, " this consciousness, this feeling or sense of Being, is > > the > > quintessence of the body. And if that body essence is gone, this > > feeling, > > the sense of Being, will also have gone. This sense of Being cannot > > remeain > > without the body, just as sweetness cannot remain without the material, > > which is sugar. > > > > Visitor: What remains then? > > > > Maharaj: What remains is the Original, which is unconditioned, without > > attributes, and without identity: that on which this temporary state of > > the > > consciousness and the three states and the three gunas have come and > > gone. > > It is called Parabrahman, the Absolute. > > > > This is my basic teaching. > > === > > It is really simple, but the quantum leap is the grasping of the > > unconditioned, qualitiless, is-ness. Though, concepts, the senses, > > rationality, logic...alla those seem to " stand in the way " of real > > understanding. They can take one to the border....then...silence. > > -ego- > > Yes, one comes to a boundary, a limit. > > The " barrier that is no barrier " is the term in Zen. > > Not even is-ness. > > Quality-less. > > Dimensionless. > > Nothing for thought to grasp, or even to sense. > > Where reality turns inside out. > > And yet, day to day life is as it is. > > -- D -- > > Not to leave this " grasping " too...esoteric... and I have werner in mind > here, there seems to be a need to see the difference between > " total-no-existence-at-all " and the > " ground-of-all-possible-existence-per-se " . On a physical level: space > without a plane to stand on....and....space with a virtual non-material > plane to stand on. ...but, these are all ridiculous analogies... > -geo- a metaphor i like is the black hole/white hole the point prior to the big bang/after the collapse of the universe infinity in/as a point and prior to that point? neither is nor is not apply time doesn't apply this point isn't a matter of before or after anything " anything " is an imaginary reference point " something " is an imaginary reference point " i am " is an imaginary reference point == Funny...the text that werner submited from a dialogue between K and pupul says it all...but he understood the opposite. Unfortunately that text is non copiable so I cant bring it here peace-by-peace. -geo- avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090526-0, 26/05/2009 Tested on: 2/7/2009 17:56:11 avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > dan330033 > Nisargadatta > Thursday, July 02, 2009 5:51 PM > Re: Without Attributes - From " I Am That " > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > dan330033 > > Nisargadatta > > Thursday, July 02, 2009 5:05 PM > > Re: Without Attributes - From " I Am That " > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > dan330033 > > > Nisargadatta > > > Thursday, July 02, 2009 4:35 PM > > > Re: Without Attributes - From " I Am That " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The sweetness is the nature of sugar; > > > but that sweetness is there only so long as the sugar is present. Once > > > the > > > sugar has been consumed or thrown away, there is no more sweetness. So > > > this > > > knowledge " I am, " this consciousness, this feeling or sense of Being, is > > > the > > > quintessence of the body. And if that body essence is gone, this > > > feeling, > > > the sense of Being, will also have gone. This sense of Being cannot > > > remeain > > > without the body, just as sweetness cannot remain without the material, > > > which is sugar. > > > > > > Visitor: What remains then? > > > > > > Maharaj: What remains is the Original, which is unconditioned, without > > > attributes, and without identity: that on which this temporary state of > > > the > > > consciousness and the three states and the three gunas have come and > > > gone. > > > It is called Parabrahman, the Absolute. > > > > > > This is my basic teaching. > > > === > > > It is really simple, but the quantum leap is the grasping of the > > > unconditioned, qualitiless, is-ness. Though, concepts, the senses, > > > rationality, logic...alla those seem to " stand in the way " of real > > > understanding. They can take one to the border....then...silence. > > > -ego- > > > > Yes, one comes to a boundary, a limit. > > > > The " barrier that is no barrier " is the term in Zen. > > > > Not even is-ness. > > > > Quality-less. > > > > Dimensionless. > > > > Nothing for thought to grasp, or even to sense. > > > > Where reality turns inside out. > > > > And yet, day to day life is as it is. > > > > -- D -- > > > > Not to leave this " grasping " too...esoteric... and I have werner in mind > > here, there seems to be a need to see the difference between > > " total-no-existence-at-all " and the > > " ground-of-all-possible-existence-per-se " . On a physical level: space > > without a plane to stand on....and....space with a virtual non-material > > plane to stand on. ...but, these are all ridiculous analogies... > > -geo- > > a metaphor i like is the black hole/white hole > > the point prior to the big bang/after the collapse of the universe > > infinity in/as a point > > and prior to that point? > > neither is nor is not apply > > time doesn't apply > > this point isn't a matter of before or after anything > > " anything " is an imaginary reference point > > " something " is an imaginary reference point > > " i am " is an imaginary reference point > == > Funny...the text that werner submited from a dialogue between K and pupul > says it all...but he understood the opposite. Unfortunately that text is non > copiable so I cant bring it here peace-by-peace. > -geo- Yes. I read it. It does seem to emphasize the ending of the known, of memory, of thought's domain. He uses the word " nothingness. " He indicates, I believe, that one can't choose this or force this - that would be the " me. " No matter how emphatic he is in his teaching, the teaching necessarily involves ideation - as any teaching must. He strives to use ideation to bring the listener to the point of not relying on ideation. So, this depends on the readiness of the listener. I like at the end of the dialogue, where he talks about listening without having to hear anything. This seems on-target to me. So, it's a matter of readiness to listen without holding onto anything telling you what you will hear (memory), without any plan (thought), without hearing anything - no inference, no commentary, no reaction to someone or something. Yes, this says a lot about what can't be said! Good stuff! - D - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.