Guest guest Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 INFINITE FREEDOM Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > Questioner: How is it that the question `Who am I' attracts me little? I prefer to spend my time in the sweet company of saints. > > > > > > Nisargadatta: Abiding in your own being is also holy company. If you have no problem of suffering and release from suffering, you will not find the energy and persistence needed for self-enquiry. You cannot manufacture a crisis. It must be genuine. > > > > > > Questioner: How does a genuine crisis happen? > > > > > > Nisargadatta: It happens every moment, but you are not alert enough. A shadow on your neighbour's face, the immense and all-pervading sorrow of existence is a constant factor in your life, but you refuse to take notice. You suffer and see others suffer, but you don't respond. > > > > > > Questioner: What you say is true, but what can I do about it? Such indeed is the situation. My helplessness and dullness are a part of it. > > > > > > Nisargadatta: Good enough. Look at yourself steadily -- it is enough. The door that locks you in, is also the door that lets you out. The `I am' is the door. Stay at it until it opens. > > > > Thanks for posting this quote and others. > > > > I'm glad to learn more about Nisargadatta's teachings. The more that I've learned, the more I find resonances with what I've experienced. > > > > When I've heard people discuss Nisargadatta, they often stick to certain concepts, maybe that are more accessible, about being consciousness, and simply being, for example. > > > > His discourse about being nothing and not even nothing, is often given short shrift, as are comments such as the one above about inquiry and crisis. > > > > Yet, all of this teaching works together. One isn't simply being. Therefore, advice to simply be isn't of much use. Inquiry makes sense, as one being honest understands that one is not simply being. One is dealing with a sense of separation, division. This inevitably returns one to one's self, to one's intent to have an existence and to look out from a center, which Nisargadatta refers to as the sense " I am. " > > > > The quote above is nice, it points to the inevitability of crisis. > > > > How can there not be a crisis, if there is investment in what is not, in having what isn't there to be had? > > > > The sense of security one has attempted to establish must be rocked, which is to say one is rocked, because one is the attempt at security. To say one is rocked, is to stay that the world is rocked, because one is not separate from the world one experiences. > > > > (Notice what is happening " in the world " - this is not an individual's inquiry, the untenability of individual existence is what is inquired into, hence the world will be rocked, non-stop as a matter of fact. The more apparent individuals as attempts at existence, the more it will be rocked.) > > > > Indeed, it's a matter of honesty, because the false sense of security is being knocked and rocked, but the knocking is ignored. The knocking is ignored so further attempts can be made to fix things. The more attempted fixing, the more security is rocked and knocked, requiring more ignoring and fixing. Thus, the ever-heightening tension, conflict, and economic trouble in the world. Which is continually ignored, as new leaders are found with new promises and new fixes, who then continue to butt heads with each other and with " reality. " > > > > " I am " being knocked and rocked. Stop ignoring, and the crisis is immediate. > > > > Knock, and it shall be opened unto you. > > > > Pretty much what Nisargadatta is saying above (the door opens both ways). > > > > However, when teachers speak to students, inevitably it ends up sounding like the inquiry is made by an individual. The teacher sounds like an individual who resolved a personal dilemma. This is the limitation of teaching. It always has to be directed somewhere, and that somewhere ends up being individual students in relationship with the teacher. Any teaching involves the assumption that someone is providing something meaningful to someone else. > > > > And the inquiry is not done by an individual. The inquiry is inquiry into the untenability of an individual point of being, life, existence. Hence, the untenability of an individual's point for making an inquiry, and really the untenability of an individual's point for offering teaching. > > > > You could say the universe is the inquiry, the individual is the resistance, and the inquiry is complete the instant that the individual isn't there to try to claim the inquiry (I am seeking, I am making this inquiry) or anything else, such as a state of being (I am rich, I am good-looking, I am happy, I am powerful, I am pissed off, I am in-the-know, I am blissful, I am miserable, I am wretched, etc., etc.) So, the universe (the all, totality) making the inquiry is the answer of the inquiry once the resistance is understood as what it is. It's a totality kind of deal. > > > > The resistance isn't something an individual is doing wrong. The resistance is the attempted holding of awareness into a position. Awareness is misunderstanding to whatever extent the positioning seems to " have a hold " or to " make a placement " for awareness. > > > > You could say that it's impossible for awareness to misunderstand. Which is true, but only at the point that there is no individual to know this. Which there in fact, is not. Which means not only that resistance is futile, but that resistance in all its aspects, isn't actually resisting anything. > > > > Thus, the dream never happened. There is nothing to wake up from or to. The world of the dream, formed by resistance, hasn't formed, hasn't taken place. > > > > Peace, > > > > - Dan > > Wow... some interesting thoughts, Dan, thanks :-). > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords wrote: > > > INFINITE FREEDOM Thanks Bbbrt... > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Questioner: How is it that the question `Who am I' attracts me little? I prefer to spend my time in the sweet company of saints. > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta: Abiding in your own being is also holy company. If you have no problem of suffering and release from suffering, you will not find the energy and persistence needed for self-enquiry. You cannot manufacture a crisis. It must be genuine. > > > > > > > > Questioner: How does a genuine crisis happen? > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta: It happens every moment, but you are not alert enough. A shadow on your neighbour's face, the immense and all-pervading sorrow of existence is a constant factor in your life, but you refuse to take notice. You suffer and see others suffer, but you don't respond. > > > > > > > > Questioner: What you say is true, but what can I do about it? Such indeed is the situation. My helplessness and dullness are a part of it. > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta: Good enough. Look at yourself steadily -- it is enough. The door that locks you in, is also the door that lets you out. The `I am' is the door. Stay at it until it opens. > > > > > > Thanks for posting this quote and others. > > > > > > I'm glad to learn more about Nisargadatta's teachings. The more that I've learned, the more I find resonances with what I've experienced. > > > > > > When I've heard people discuss Nisargadatta, they often stick to certain concepts, maybe that are more accessible, about being consciousness, and simply being, for example. > > > > > > His discourse about being nothing and not even nothing, is often given short shrift, as are comments such as the one above about inquiry and crisis. > > > > > > Yet, all of this teaching works together. One isn't simply being. Therefore, advice to simply be isn't of much use. Inquiry makes sense, as one being honest understands that one is not simply being. One is dealing with a sense of separation, division. This inevitably returns one to one's self, to one's intent to have an existence and to look out from a center, which Nisargadatta refers to as the sense " I am. " > > > > > > The quote above is nice, it points to the inevitability of crisis. > > > > > > How can there not be a crisis, if there is investment in what is not, in having what isn't there to be had? > > > > > > The sense of security one has attempted to establish must be rocked, which is to say one is rocked, because one is the attempt at security. To say one is rocked, is to stay that the world is rocked, because one is not separate from the world one experiences. > > > > > > (Notice what is happening " in the world " - this is not an individual's inquiry, the untenability of individual existence is what is inquired into, hence the world will be rocked, non-stop as a matter of fact. The more apparent individuals as attempts at existence, the more it will be rocked.) > > > > > > Indeed, it's a matter of honesty, because the false sense of security is being knocked and rocked, but the knocking is ignored. The knocking is ignored so further attempts can be made to fix things. The more attempted fixing, the more security is rocked and knocked, requiring more ignoring and fixing. Thus, the ever-heightening tension, conflict, and economic trouble in the world. Which is continually ignored, as new leaders are found with new promises and new fixes, who then continue to butt heads with each other and with " reality. " > > > > > > " I am " being knocked and rocked. Stop ignoring, and the crisis is immediate. > > > > > > Knock, and it shall be opened unto you. > > > > > > Pretty much what Nisargadatta is saying above (the door opens both ways). > > > > > > However, when teachers speak to students, inevitably it ends up sounding like the inquiry is made by an individual. The teacher sounds like an individual who resolved a personal dilemma. This is the limitation of teaching. It always has to be directed somewhere, and that somewhere ends up being individual students in relationship with the teacher. Any teaching involves the assumption that someone is providing something meaningful to someone else. > > > > > > And the inquiry is not done by an individual. The inquiry is inquiry into the untenability of an individual point of being, life, existence. Hence, the untenability of an individual's point for making an inquiry, and really the untenability of an individual's point for offering teaching. > > > > > > You could say the universe is the inquiry, the individual is the resistance, and the inquiry is complete the instant that the individual isn't there to try to claim the inquiry (I am seeking, I am making this inquiry) or anything else, such as a state of being (I am rich, I am good-looking, I am happy, I am powerful, I am pissed off, I am in-the-know, I am blissful, I am miserable, I am wretched, etc., etc.) So, the universe (the all, totality) making the inquiry is the answer of the inquiry once the resistance is understood as what it is. It's a totality kind of deal. > > > > > > The resistance isn't something an individual is doing wrong. The resistance is the attempted holding of awareness into a position. Awareness is misunderstanding to whatever extent the positioning seems to " have a hold " or to " make a placement " for awareness. > > > > > > You could say that it's impossible for awareness to misunderstand. Which is true, but only at the point that there is no individual to know this. Which there in fact, is not. Which means not only that resistance is futile, but that resistance in all its aspects, isn't actually resisting anything. > > > > > > Thus, the dream never happened. There is nothing to wake up from or to. The world of the dream, formed by resistance, hasn't formed, hasn't taken place. > > > > > > Peace, > > > > > > - Dan > > > > Wow... some interesting thoughts, Dan, thanks :-). > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 * o O INFINITE FREEDOM > Thanks Bbbrt... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Questioner: How is it that the question `Who am I' attracts me little? I prefer to spend my time in the sweet company of saints. > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta: Abiding in your own being is also holy company. If you have no problem of suffering and release from suffering, you will not find the energy and persistence needed for self-enquiry. You cannot manufacture a crisis. It must be genuine. > > > > > > > > > > Questioner: How does a genuine crisis happen? > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta: It happens every moment, but you are not alert enough. A shadow on your neighbour's face, the immense and all-pervading sorrow of existence is a constant factor in your life, but you refuse to take notice. You suffer and see others suffer, but you don't respond. > > > > > > > > > > Questioner: What you say is true, but what can I do about it? Such indeed is the situation. My helplessness and dullness are a part of it. > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta: Good enough. Look at yourself steadily -- it is enough. The door that locks you in, is also the door that lets you out. The `I am' is the door. Stay at it until it opens. > > > > > > > > Thanks for posting this quote and others. > > > > > > > > I'm glad to learn more about Nisargadatta's teachings. The more that I've learned, the more I find resonances with what I've experienced. > > > > > > > > When I've heard people discuss Nisargadatta, they often stick to certain concepts, maybe that are more accessible, about being consciousness, and simply being, for example. > > > > > > > > His discourse about being nothing and not even nothing, is often given short shrift, as are comments such as the one above about inquiry and crisis. > > > > > > > > Yet, all of this teaching works together. One isn't simply being. Therefore, advice to simply be isn't of much use. Inquiry makes sense, as one being honest understands that one is not simply being. One is dealing with a sense of separation, division. This inevitably returns one to one's self, to one's intent to have an existence and to look out from a center, which Nisargadatta refers to as the sense " I am. " > > > > > > > > The quote above is nice, it points to the inevitability of crisis. > > > > > > > > How can there not be a crisis, if there is investment in what is not, in having what isn't there to be had? > > > > > > > > The sense of security one has attempted to establish must be rocked, which is to say one is rocked, because one is the attempt at security. To say one is rocked, is to stay that the world is rocked, because one is not separate from the world one experiences. > > > > > > > > (Notice what is happening " in the world " - this is not an individual's inquiry, the untenability of individual existence is what is inquired into, hence the world will be rocked, non-stop as a matter of fact. The more apparent individuals as attempts at existence, the more it will be rocked.) > > > > > > > > Indeed, it's a matter of honesty, because the false sense of security is being knocked and rocked, but the knocking is ignored. The knocking is ignored so further attempts can be made to fix things. The more attempted fixing, the more security is rocked and knocked, requiring more ignoring and fixing. Thus, the ever-heightening tension, conflict, and economic trouble in the world. Which is continually ignored, as new leaders are found with new promises and new fixes, who then continue to butt heads with each other and with " reality. " > > > > > > > > " I am " being knocked and rocked. Stop ignoring, and the crisis is immediate. > > > > > > > > Knock, and it shall be opened unto you. > > > > > > > > Pretty much what Nisargadatta is saying above (the door opens both ways). > > > > > > > > However, when teachers speak to students, inevitably it ends up sounding like the inquiry is made by an individual. The teacher sounds like an individual who resolved a personal dilemma. This is the limitation of teaching. It always has to be directed somewhere, and that somewhere ends up being individual students in relationship with the teacher. Any teaching involves the assumption that someone is providing something meaningful to someone else. > > > > > > > > And the inquiry is not done by an individual. The inquiry is inquiry into the untenability of an individual point of being, life, existence. Hence, the untenability of an individual's point for making an inquiry, and really the untenability of an individual's point for offering teaching. > > > > > > > > You could say the universe is the inquiry, the individual is the resistance, and the inquiry is complete the instant that the individual isn't there to try to claim the inquiry (I am seeking, I am making this inquiry) or anything else, such as a state of being (I am rich, I am good-looking, I am happy, I am powerful, I am pissed off, I am in-the-know, I am blissful, I am miserable, I am wretched, etc., etc.) So, the universe (the all, totality) making the inquiry is the answer of the inquiry once the resistance is understood as what it is. It's a totality kind of deal. > > > > > > > > The resistance isn't something an individual is doing wrong. The resistance is the attempted holding of awareness into a position. Awareness is misunderstanding to whatever extent the positioning seems to " have a hold " or to " make a placement " for awareness. > > > > > > > > You could say that it's impossible for awareness to misunderstand. Which is true, but only at the point that there is no individual to know this. Which there in fact, is not. Which means not only that resistance is futile, but that resistance in all its aspects, isn't actually resisting anything. > > > > > > > > Thus, the dream never happened. There is nothing to wake up from or to. The world of the dream, formed by resistance, hasn't formed, hasn't taken place. > > > > > > > > Peace, > > > > > > > > - Dan > > > > > > Wow... some interesting thoughts, Dan, thanks :-). > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords wrote: > > > > > > * > > o > > O > What a pride... INFINITE FREEDOM > > > Thanks Bbbrt... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Questioner: How is it that the question `Who am I' attracts me little? I prefer to spend my time in the sweet company of saints. > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta: Abiding in your own being is also holy company. If you have no problem of suffering and release from suffering, you will not find the energy and persistence needed for self-enquiry. You cannot manufacture a crisis. It must be genuine. > > > > > > > > > > > > Questioner: How does a genuine crisis happen? > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta: It happens every moment, but you are not alert enough. A shadow on your neighbour's face, the immense and all-pervading sorrow of existence is a constant factor in your life, but you refuse to take notice. You suffer and see others suffer, but you don't respond. > > > > > > > > > > > > Questioner: What you say is true, but what can I do about it? Such indeed is the situation. My helplessness and dullness are a part of it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta: Good enough. Look at yourself steadily -- it is enough. The door that locks you in, is also the door that lets you out. The `I am' is the door. Stay at it until it opens. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for posting this quote and others. > > > > > > > > > > I'm glad to learn more about Nisargadatta's teachings. The more that I've learned, the more I find resonances with what I've experienced. > > > > > > > > > > When I've heard people discuss Nisargadatta, they often stick to certain concepts, maybe that are more accessible, about being consciousness, and simply being, for example. > > > > > > > > > > His discourse about being nothing and not even nothing, is often given short shrift, as are comments such as the one above about inquiry and crisis. > > > > > > > > > > Yet, all of this teaching works together. One isn't simply being. Therefore, advice to simply be isn't of much use. Inquiry makes sense, as one being honest understands that one is not simply being. One is dealing with a sense of separation, division. This inevitably returns one to one's self, to one's intent to have an existence and to look out from a center, which Nisargadatta refers to as the sense " I am. " > > > > > > > > > > The quote above is nice, it points to the inevitability of crisis. > > > > > > > > > > How can there not be a crisis, if there is investment in what is not, in having what isn't there to be had? > > > > > > > > > > The sense of security one has attempted to establish must be rocked, which is to say one is rocked, because one is the attempt at security. To say one is rocked, is to stay that the world is rocked, because one is not separate from the world one experiences. > > > > > > > > > > (Notice what is happening " in the world " - this is not an individual's inquiry, the untenability of individual existence is what is inquired into, hence the world will be rocked, non-stop as a matter of fact. The more apparent individuals as attempts at existence, the more it will be rocked.) > > > > > > > > > > Indeed, it's a matter of honesty, because the false sense of security is being knocked and rocked, but the knocking is ignored. The knocking is ignored so further attempts can be made to fix things. The more attempted fixing, the more security is rocked and knocked, requiring more ignoring and fixing. Thus, the ever-heightening tension, conflict, and economic trouble in the world. Which is continually ignored, as new leaders are found with new promises and new fixes, who then continue to butt heads with each other and with " reality. " > > > > > > > > > > " I am " being knocked and rocked. Stop ignoring, and the crisis is immediate. > > > > > > > > > > Knock, and it shall be opened unto you. > > > > > > > > > > Pretty much what Nisargadatta is saying above (the door opens both ways). > > > > > > > > > > However, when teachers speak to students, inevitably it ends up sounding like the inquiry is made by an individual. The teacher sounds like an individual who resolved a personal dilemma. This is the limitation of teaching. It always has to be directed somewhere, and that somewhere ends up being individual students in relationship with the teacher. Any teaching involves the assumption that someone is providing something meaningful to someone else. > > > > > > > > > > And the inquiry is not done by an individual. The inquiry is inquiry into the untenability of an individual point of being, life, existence. Hence, the untenability of an individual's point for making an inquiry, and really the untenability of an individual's point for offering teaching. > > > > > > > > > > You could say the universe is the inquiry, the individual is the resistance, and the inquiry is complete the instant that the individual isn't there to try to claim the inquiry (I am seeking, I am making this inquiry) or anything else, such as a state of being (I am rich, I am good-looking, I am happy, I am powerful, I am pissed off, I am in-the-know, I am blissful, I am miserable, I am wretched, etc., etc.) So, the universe (the all, totality) making the inquiry is the answer of the inquiry once the resistance is understood as what it is. It's a totality kind of deal. > > > > > > > > > > The resistance isn't something an individual is doing wrong. The resistance is the attempted holding of awareness into a position. Awareness is misunderstanding to whatever extent the positioning seems to " have a hold " or to " make a placement " for awareness. > > > > > > > > > > You could say that it's impossible for awareness to misunderstand. Which is true, but only at the point that there is no individual to know this. Which there in fact, is not. Which means not only that resistance is futile, but that resistance in all its aspects, isn't actually resisting anything. > > > > > > > > > > Thus, the dream never happened. There is nothing to wake up from or to. The world of the dream, formed by resistance, hasn't formed, hasn't taken place. > > > > > > > > > > Peace, > > > > > > > > > > - Dan > > > > > > > > Wow... some interesting thoughts, Dan, thanks :-). > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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