Guest guest Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 - roberibus111 Nisargadatta Monday, August 03, 2009 8:09 AM Re: And then what.......? Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > roberibus111 > Nisargadatta > Sunday, August 02, 2009 10:42 PM > Re: And then what.......? > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > dan330033 > > Nisargadatta > > Sunday, August 02, 2009 2:14 PM > > Re: And then what.......? > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > dan330033 > > > Nisargadatta > > > Saturday, August 01, 2009 9:35 PM > > > Re: And then what.......? > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Geovani " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > " When there is the conviction that there is a separate inner entity, > > > > then > > > > there will be the same conviction in some next life " ...or something > > > > like > > > > that - is often said. But is that not just pure speculation, pure > > > > theory? > > > > When the light of this consciousness is gone, who knows what will > > > > happen > > > > next? Who can say that whatever conviction or lack of it in this > > > > life > > > > will > > > > hold in some next event? We know nothing about it. There may be the > > > > perception of non-dual awareness here and now....bu the body will > > > > die, > > > > memory lost, consciousness gone, > > > > and........and.......and.......then.....then.....WHAT? IMHO nobady > > > > knows. > > > > There may be a " next " life as a frog, or a human even more egotistic > > > > then > > > > the one here now, or perhaps something totaly /completely > > > > different....Or > > > > perhaps I am mistaken? > > > > -geo- > > > > > > hi geo - > > > > > > lives are not arranged linearly, not even for one life, let alone for > > > many. > > > > > > only the imagined center can pretend that it has a position in a brain > > > from > > > which to calculate a line of lives going forward and back. > > > > > > there is no before or after, except when conceptually imagining, based > > > on > > > the fictitious center. > > > > > > and since imagining befores and afters and straight lines leads to > > > having > > > jobs, building cities and highways, winning wars, and so on ... it > > > gained > > > a > > > lot of popularity over the centuries. > > > > > > without ever having a vote, the imagined center and its line of > > > befores > > > and > > > afters was put into office. > > > > > > and it's been reigning as the dictator for a long time. > > > > > > only, there isn't any (time that is). > > > > > > so, the deposing of the dictator who never got elected is an > > > ever-immanent > > > event. > > > > > > this nothing is the nothing before you were born, while you are > > > breathing, > > > and after this body's last breath. > > > > > > the breathing of this body is involuntary. > > > > > > so is everything else. > > > > > > - D - > > > > > > Yes I see it the same way, although I am not sure whether it adresses > > > the > > > issue raised: that we dont know. But...is there anything we could say > > > about > > > the matter of this non-linear matrix of events that we learned to call > > > life, > > > or lives? Perhaps if one considers very carefully, with profundity, > > > the > > > meaning of " love " and " absolute aloness " and " no authorithy " or some > > > other > > > names in place....maybe then one could speculate upon the " direction " > > > of > > > the > > > nature of this unknown matrix... > > > -geo- > > > > the nonlinear matrix is quite amazing fun. > > > > things, experiences, lives popping in and out. > > > > perceivers with perceived. > > > > endless mirrors. > > > > endless dramas. > > > > endless forms. > > > > never knowing. > > > > - d - > > > > Or...perhaps... the very same thing happening again and again...nothing > > ever > > happened otherwise..never. Why not...who can tell? > > -geo- > > there are no things. > > nothing happens. > > .b b.b. > > What things are not? > -geo- are not what? things are not what. what are you trying to say? ..b b.b. Very simple. How can you referr to something and say it is not? If it is referrable its because it is. -geo- avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090526-0, 26/05/2009 Tested on: 3/8/2009 09:17:57 avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > roberibus111 > Nisargadatta > Monday, August 03, 2009 8:09 AM > Re: And then what.......? > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > roberibus111 > > Nisargadatta > > Sunday, August 02, 2009 10:42 PM > > Re: And then what.......? > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > dan330033 > > > Nisargadatta > > > Sunday, August 02, 2009 2:14 PM > > > Re: And then what.......? > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > dan330033 > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > Saturday, August 01, 2009 9:35 PM > > > > Re: And then what.......? > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Geovani " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > " When there is the conviction that there is a separate inner entity, > > > > > then > > > > > there will be the same conviction in some next life " ...or something > > > > > like > > > > > that - is often said. But is that not just pure speculation, pure > > > > > theory? > > > > > When the light of this consciousness is gone, who knows what will > > > > > happen > > > > > next? Who can say that whatever conviction or lack of it in this > > > > > life > > > > > will > > > > > hold in some next event? We know nothing about it. There may be the > > > > > perception of non-dual awareness here and now....bu the body will > > > > > die, > > > > > memory lost, consciousness gone, > > > > > and........and.......and.......then.....then.....WHAT? IMHO nobady > > > > > knows. > > > > > There may be a " next " life as a frog, or a human even more egotistic > > > > > then > > > > > the one here now, or perhaps something totaly /completely > > > > > different....Or > > > > > perhaps I am mistaken? > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > hi geo - > > > > > > > > lives are not arranged linearly, not even for one life, let alone for > > > > many. > > > > > > > > only the imagined center can pretend that it has a position in a brain > > > > from > > > > which to calculate a line of lives going forward and back. > > > > > > > > there is no before or after, except when conceptually imagining, based > > > > on > > > > the fictitious center. > > > > > > > > and since imagining befores and afters and straight lines leads to > > > > having > > > > jobs, building cities and highways, winning wars, and so on ... it > > > > gained > > > > a > > > > lot of popularity over the centuries. > > > > > > > > without ever having a vote, the imagined center and its line of > > > > befores > > > > and > > > > afters was put into office. > > > > > > > > and it's been reigning as the dictator for a long time. > > > > > > > > only, there isn't any (time that is). > > > > > > > > so, the deposing of the dictator who never got elected is an > > > > ever-immanent > > > > event. > > > > > > > > this nothing is the nothing before you were born, while you are > > > > breathing, > > > > and after this body's last breath. > > > > > > > > the breathing of this body is involuntary. > > > > > > > > so is everything else. > > > > > > > > - D - > > > > > > > > Yes I see it the same way, although I am not sure whether it adresses > > > > the > > > > issue raised: that we dont know. But...is there anything we could say > > > > about > > > > the matter of this non-linear matrix of events that we learned to call > > > > life, > > > > or lives? Perhaps if one considers very carefully, with profundity, > > > > the > > > > meaning of " love " and " absolute aloness " and " no authorithy " or some > > > > other > > > > names in place....maybe then one could speculate upon the " direction " > > > > of > > > > the > > > > nature of this unknown matrix... > > > > -geo- > > > > > > the nonlinear matrix is quite amazing fun. > > > > > > things, experiences, lives popping in and out. > > > > > > perceivers with perceived. > > > > > > endless mirrors. > > > > > > endless dramas. > > > > > > endless forms. > > > > > > never knowing. > > > > > > - d - > > > > > > Or...perhaps... the very same thing happening again and again...nothing > > > ever > > > happened otherwise..never. Why not...who can tell? > > > -geo- > > > > there are no things. > > > > nothing happens. > > > > .b b.b. > > > > What things are not? > > -geo- > > are not what? > > things are not what. > > what are you trying to say? > > .b b.b. > > Very simple. How can you referr to something and say it is not? If it is > referrable its because it is. > -geo- no that's not simple. this however is: how would you say Santa Claus is not? or does saying (or asking) that.. in that form and fashion.. using those words. make him: real..substantive.. actually a " being " that is? who are you trying to kid? yourself? there is no self so quit trying to kid " your " self. or does the referent confuse you? ..b b.b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 - roberibus111 Nisargadatta Monday, August 03, 2009 9:29 AM Re: And then what.......? Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > roberibus111 > Nisargadatta > Monday, August 03, 2009 8:09 AM > Re: And then what.......? > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > roberibus111 > > Nisargadatta > > Sunday, August 02, 2009 10:42 PM > > Re: And then what.......? > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > dan330033 > > > Nisargadatta > > > Sunday, August 02, 2009 2:14 PM > > > Re: And then what.......? > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > dan330033 > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > Saturday, August 01, 2009 9:35 PM > > > > Re: And then what.......? > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Geovani " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > " When there is the conviction that there is a separate inner > > > > > entity, > > > > > then > > > > > there will be the same conviction in some next life " ...or > > > > > something > > > > > like > > > > > that - is often said. But is that not just pure speculation, pure > > > > > theory? > > > > > When the light of this consciousness is gone, who knows what will > > > > > happen > > > > > next? Who can say that whatever conviction or lack of it in this > > > > > life > > > > > will > > > > > hold in some next event? We know nothing about it. There may be > > > > > the > > > > > perception of non-dual awareness here and now....bu the body will > > > > > die, > > > > > memory lost, consciousness gone, > > > > > and........and.......and.......then.....then.....WHAT? IMHO nobady > > > > > knows. > > > > > There may be a " next " life as a frog, or a human even more > > > > > egotistic > > > > > then > > > > > the one here now, or perhaps something totaly /completely > > > > > different....Or > > > > > perhaps I am mistaken? > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > hi geo - > > > > > > > > lives are not arranged linearly, not even for one life, let alone > > > > for > > > > many. > > > > > > > > only the imagined center can pretend that it has a position in a > > > > brain > > > > from > > > > which to calculate a line of lives going forward and back. > > > > > > > > there is no before or after, except when conceptually imagining, > > > > based > > > > on > > > > the fictitious center. > > > > > > > > and since imagining befores and afters and straight lines leads to > > > > having > > > > jobs, building cities and highways, winning wars, and so on ... it > > > > gained > > > > a > > > > lot of popularity over the centuries. > > > > > > > > without ever having a vote, the imagined center and its line of > > > > befores > > > > and > > > > afters was put into office. > > > > > > > > and it's been reigning as the dictator for a long time. > > > > > > > > only, there isn't any (time that is). > > > > > > > > so, the deposing of the dictator who never got elected is an > > > > ever-immanent > > > > event. > > > > > > > > this nothing is the nothing before you were born, while you are > > > > breathing, > > > > and after this body's last breath. > > > > > > > > the breathing of this body is involuntary. > > > > > > > > so is everything else. > > > > > > > > - D - > > > > > > > > Yes I see it the same way, although I am not sure whether it > > > > adresses > > > > the > > > > issue raised: that we dont know. But...is there anything we could > > > > say > > > > about > > > > the matter of this non-linear matrix of events that we learned to > > > > call > > > > life, > > > > or lives? Perhaps if one considers very carefully, with profundity, > > > > the > > > > meaning of " love " and " absolute aloness " and " no authorithy " or some > > > > other > > > > names in place....maybe then one could speculate upon the > > > > " direction " > > > > of > > > > the > > > > nature of this unknown matrix... > > > > -geo- > > > > > > the nonlinear matrix is quite amazing fun. > > > > > > things, experiences, lives popping in and out. > > > > > > perceivers with perceived. > > > > > > endless mirrors. > > > > > > endless dramas. > > > > > > endless forms. > > > > > > never knowing. > > > > > > - d - > > > > > > Or...perhaps... the very same thing happening again and > > > again...nothing > > > ever > > > happened otherwise..never. Why not...who can tell? > > > -geo- > > > > there are no things. > > > > nothing happens. > > > > .b b.b. > > > > What things are not? > > -geo- > > are not what? > > things are not what. > > what are you trying to say? > > .b b.b. > > Very simple. How can you referr to something and say it is not? If it is > referrable its because it is. > -geo- no that's not simple. this however is: how would you say Santa Claus is not? or does saying (or asking) that.. in that form and fashion.. using those words. make him: real..substantive.. actually a " being " that is? who are you trying to kid? yourself? there is no self so quit trying to kid " your " self. or does the referent confuse you? ..b b.b. Santa Claus is a concept and you are referring to it as that. Now, in " the very same thing happening again and again...nothing ever happened otherwise..never. " you can question the nature of the thing that is our personal history that we call life, but to say it is not, makes no sense. I can then replay: the very same no-thing happening again.... " Any further doubts dont hesitate to ask... -geo- avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090526-0, 26/05/2009 Tested on: 3/8/2009 09:30:58 avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > roberibus111 > Nisargadatta > Monday, August 03, 2009 9:29 AM > Re: And then what.......? > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > roberibus111 > > Nisargadatta > > Monday, August 03, 2009 8:09 AM > > Re: And then what.......? > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > roberibus111 > > > Nisargadatta > > > Sunday, August 02, 2009 10:42 PM > > > Re: And then what.......? > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > dan330033 > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > Sunday, August 02, 2009 2:14 PM > > > > Re: And then what.......? > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > dan330033 > > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > > Saturday, August 01, 2009 9:35 PM > > > > > Re: And then what.......? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Geovani " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > " When there is the conviction that there is a separate inner > > > > > > entity, > > > > > > then > > > > > > there will be the same conviction in some next life " ...or > > > > > > something > > > > > > like > > > > > > that - is often said. But is that not just pure speculation, pure > > > > > > theory? > > > > > > When the light of this consciousness is gone, who knows what will > > > > > > happen > > > > > > next? Who can say that whatever conviction or lack of it in this > > > > > > life > > > > > > will > > > > > > hold in some next event? We know nothing about it. There may be > > > > > > the > > > > > > perception of non-dual awareness here and now....bu the body will > > > > > > die, > > > > > > memory lost, consciousness gone, > > > > > > and........and.......and.......then.....then.....WHAT? IMHO nobady > > > > > > knows. > > > > > > There may be a " next " life as a frog, or a human even more > > > > > > egotistic > > > > > > then > > > > > > the one here now, or perhaps something totaly /completely > > > > > > different....Or > > > > > > perhaps I am mistaken? > > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > hi geo - > > > > > > > > > > lives are not arranged linearly, not even for one life, let alone > > > > > for > > > > > many. > > > > > > > > > > only the imagined center can pretend that it has a position in a > > > > > brain > > > > > from > > > > > which to calculate a line of lives going forward and back. > > > > > > > > > > there is no before or after, except when conceptually imagining, > > > > > based > > > > > on > > > > > the fictitious center. > > > > > > > > > > and since imagining befores and afters and straight lines leads to > > > > > having > > > > > jobs, building cities and highways, winning wars, and so on ... it > > > > > gained > > > > > a > > > > > lot of popularity over the centuries. > > > > > > > > > > without ever having a vote, the imagined center and its line of > > > > > befores > > > > > and > > > > > afters was put into office. > > > > > > > > > > and it's been reigning as the dictator for a long time. > > > > > > > > > > only, there isn't any (time that is). > > > > > > > > > > so, the deposing of the dictator who never got elected is an > > > > > ever-immanent > > > > > event. > > > > > > > > > > this nothing is the nothing before you were born, while you are > > > > > breathing, > > > > > and after this body's last breath. > > > > > > > > > > the breathing of this body is involuntary. > > > > > > > > > > so is everything else. > > > > > > > > > > - D - > > > > > > > > > > Yes I see it the same way, although I am not sure whether it > > > > > adresses > > > > > the > > > > > issue raised: that we dont know. But...is there anything we could > > > > > say > > > > > about > > > > > the matter of this non-linear matrix of events that we learned to > > > > > call > > > > > life, > > > > > or lives? Perhaps if one considers very carefully, with profundity, > > > > > the > > > > > meaning of " love " and " absolute aloness " and " no authorithy " or some > > > > > other > > > > > names in place....maybe then one could speculate upon the > > > > > " direction " > > > > > of > > > > > the > > > > > nature of this unknown matrix... > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > the nonlinear matrix is quite amazing fun. > > > > > > > > things, experiences, lives popping in and out. > > > > > > > > perceivers with perceived. > > > > > > > > endless mirrors. > > > > > > > > endless dramas. > > > > > > > > endless forms. > > > > > > > > never knowing. > > > > > > > > - d - > > > > > > > > Or...perhaps... the very same thing happening again and > > > > again...nothing > > > > ever > > > > happened otherwise..never. Why not...who can tell? > > > > -geo- > > > > > > there are no things. > > > > > > nothing happens. > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > What things are not? > > > -geo- > > > > are not what? > > > > things are not what. > > > > what are you trying to say? > > > > .b b.b. > > > > Very simple. How can you referr to something and say it is not? If it is > > referrable its because it is. > > -geo- > > no that's not simple. > > this however is: > > how would you say Santa Claus is not? > > or does saying (or asking) that.. > > in that form and fashion.. > > using those words. > > make him: real..substantive.. > > actually a " being " that is? > > who are you trying to kid? > > yourself? > > there is no self so quit trying to kid " your " self. > > or does the referent confuse you? > > .b b.b. > > Santa Claus is a concept and you are referring to it as that. Now, in " the > very same thing happening again and again...nothing ever happened > otherwise..never. " you can question the nature of the thing that is our > personal history that we call life, but to say it is not, makes no sense. I > can then replay: the very same no-thing happening again.... " > > Any further doubts dont hesitate to ask... > -geo- there are no doubts. that's dumb. ..b b.b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 - roberibus111 Nisargadatta Monday, August 03, 2009 10:06 AM Re: And then what.......? Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > roberibus111 > Nisargadatta > Monday, August 03, 2009 9:29 AM > Re: And then what.......? > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > roberibus111 > > Nisargadatta > > Monday, August 03, 2009 8:09 AM > > Re: And then what.......? > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > roberibus111 > > > Nisargadatta > > > Sunday, August 02, 2009 10:42 PM > > > Re: And then what.......? > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > dan330033 > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > Sunday, August 02, 2009 2:14 PM > > > > Re: And then what.......? > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > dan330033 > > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > > Saturday, August 01, 2009 9:35 PM > > > > > Re: And then what.......? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Geovani " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > " When there is the conviction that there is a separate inner > > > > > > entity, > > > > > > then > > > > > > there will be the same conviction in some next life " ...or > > > > > > something > > > > > > like > > > > > > that - is often said. But is that not just pure speculation, > > > > > > pure > > > > > > theory? > > > > > > When the light of this consciousness is gone, who knows what > > > > > > will > > > > > > happen > > > > > > next? Who can say that whatever conviction or lack of it in this > > > > > > life > > > > > > will > > > > > > hold in some next event? We know nothing about it. There may be > > > > > > the > > > > > > perception of non-dual awareness here and now....bu the body > > > > > > will > > > > > > die, > > > > > > memory lost, consciousness gone, > > > > > > and........and.......and.......then.....then.....WHAT? IMHO > > > > > > nobady > > > > > > knows. > > > > > > There may be a " next " life as a frog, or a human even more > > > > > > egotistic > > > > > > then > > > > > > the one here now, or perhaps something totaly /completely > > > > > > different....Or > > > > > > perhaps I am mistaken? > > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > hi geo - > > > > > > > > > > lives are not arranged linearly, not even for one life, let alone > > > > > for > > > > > many. > > > > > > > > > > only the imagined center can pretend that it has a position in a > > > > > brain > > > > > from > > > > > which to calculate a line of lives going forward and back. > > > > > > > > > > there is no before or after, except when conceptually imagining, > > > > > based > > > > > on > > > > > the fictitious center. > > > > > > > > > > and since imagining befores and afters and straight lines leads to > > > > > having > > > > > jobs, building cities and highways, winning wars, and so on ... it > > > > > gained > > > > > a > > > > > lot of popularity over the centuries. > > > > > > > > > > without ever having a vote, the imagined center and its line of > > > > > befores > > > > > and > > > > > afters was put into office. > > > > > > > > > > and it's been reigning as the dictator for a long time. > > > > > > > > > > only, there isn't any (time that is). > > > > > > > > > > so, the deposing of the dictator who never got elected is an > > > > > ever-immanent > > > > > event. > > > > > > > > > > this nothing is the nothing before you were born, while you are > > > > > breathing, > > > > > and after this body's last breath. > > > > > > > > > > the breathing of this body is involuntary. > > > > > > > > > > so is everything else. > > > > > > > > > > - D - > > > > > > > > > > Yes I see it the same way, although I am not sure whether it > > > > > adresses > > > > > the > > > > > issue raised: that we dont know. But...is there anything we could > > > > > say > > > > > about > > > > > the matter of this non-linear matrix of events that we learned to > > > > > call > > > > > life, > > > > > or lives? Perhaps if one considers very carefully, with > > > > > profundity, > > > > > the > > > > > meaning of " love " and " absolute aloness " and " no authorithy " or > > > > > some > > > > > other > > > > > names in place....maybe then one could speculate upon the > > > > > " direction " > > > > > of > > > > > the > > > > > nature of this unknown matrix... > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > the nonlinear matrix is quite amazing fun. > > > > > > > > things, experiences, lives popping in and out. > > > > > > > > perceivers with perceived. > > > > > > > > endless mirrors. > > > > > > > > endless dramas. > > > > > > > > endless forms. > > > > > > > > never knowing. > > > > > > > > - d - > > > > > > > > Or...perhaps... the very same thing happening again and > > > > again...nothing > > > > ever > > > > happened otherwise..never. Why not...who can tell? > > > > -geo- > > > > > > there are no things. > > > > > > nothing happens. > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > What things are not? > > > -geo- > > > > are not what? > > > > things are not what. > > > > what are you trying to say? > > > > .b b.b. > > > > Very simple. How can you referr to something and say it is not? If it is > > referrable its because it is. > > -geo- > > no that's not simple. > > this however is: > > how would you say Santa Claus is not? > > or does saying (or asking) that.. > > in that form and fashion.. > > using those words. > > make him: real..substantive.. > > actually a " being " that is? > > who are you trying to kid? > > yourself? > > there is no self so quit trying to kid " your " self. > > or does the referent confuse you? > > .b b.b. > > Santa Claus is a concept and you are referring to it as that. Now, in " the > very same thing happening again and again...nothing ever happened > otherwise..never. " you can question the nature of the thing that is our > personal history that we call life, but to say it is not, makes no sense. > I > can then replay: the very same no-thing happening again.... " > > Any further doubts dont hesitate to ask... > -geo- there are no doubts. that's dumb. ..b b.b. Good. So that clears any pending issues upon " things " . -geo- avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090526-0, 26/05/2009 Tested on: 3/8/2009 10:08:17 avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > roberibus111 > Nisargadatta > Monday, August 03, 2009 10:06 AM > Re: And then what.......? > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > roberibus111 > > Nisargadatta > > Monday, August 03, 2009 9:29 AM > > Re: And then what.......? > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > roberibus111 > > > Nisargadatta > > > Monday, August 03, 2009 8:09 AM > > > Re: And then what.......? > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > roberibus111 > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > Sunday, August 02, 2009 10:42 PM > > > > Re: And then what.......? > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > dan330033 > > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > > Sunday, August 02, 2009 2:14 PM > > > > > Re: And then what.......? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > dan330033 > > > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > > > Saturday, August 01, 2009 9:35 PM > > > > > > Re: And then what.......? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Geovani " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " When there is the conviction that there is a separate inner > > > > > > > entity, > > > > > > > then > > > > > > > there will be the same conviction in some next life " ...or > > > > > > > something > > > > > > > like > > > > > > > that - is often said. But is that not just pure speculation, > > > > > > > pure > > > > > > > theory? > > > > > > > When the light of this consciousness is gone, who knows what > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > happen > > > > > > > next? Who can say that whatever conviction or lack of it in this > > > > > > > life > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > hold in some next event? We know nothing about it. There may be > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > perception of non-dual awareness here and now....bu the body > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > die, > > > > > > > memory lost, consciousness gone, > > > > > > > and........and.......and.......then.....then.....WHAT? IMHO > > > > > > > nobady > > > > > > > knows. > > > > > > > There may be a " next " life as a frog, or a human even more > > > > > > > egotistic > > > > > > > then > > > > > > > the one here now, or perhaps something totaly /completely > > > > > > > different....Or > > > > > > > perhaps I am mistaken? > > > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > hi geo - > > > > > > > > > > > > lives are not arranged linearly, not even for one life, let alone > > > > > > for > > > > > > many. > > > > > > > > > > > > only the imagined center can pretend that it has a position in a > > > > > > brain > > > > > > from > > > > > > which to calculate a line of lives going forward and back. > > > > > > > > > > > > there is no before or after, except when conceptually imagining, > > > > > > based > > > > > > on > > > > > > the fictitious center. > > > > > > > > > > > > and since imagining befores and afters and straight lines leads to > > > > > > having > > > > > > jobs, building cities and highways, winning wars, and so on ... it > > > > > > gained > > > > > > a > > > > > > lot of popularity over the centuries. > > > > > > > > > > > > without ever having a vote, the imagined center and its line of > > > > > > befores > > > > > > and > > > > > > afters was put into office. > > > > > > > > > > > > and it's been reigning as the dictator for a long time. > > > > > > > > > > > > only, there isn't any (time that is). > > > > > > > > > > > > so, the deposing of the dictator who never got elected is an > > > > > > ever-immanent > > > > > > event. > > > > > > > > > > > > this nothing is the nothing before you were born, while you are > > > > > > breathing, > > > > > > and after this body's last breath. > > > > > > > > > > > > the breathing of this body is involuntary. > > > > > > > > > > > > so is everything else. > > > > > > > > > > > > - D - > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes I see it the same way, although I am not sure whether it > > > > > > adresses > > > > > > the > > > > > > issue raised: that we dont know. But...is there anything we could > > > > > > say > > > > > > about > > > > > > the matter of this non-linear matrix of events that we learned to > > > > > > call > > > > > > life, > > > > > > or lives? Perhaps if one considers very carefully, with > > > > > > profundity, > > > > > > the > > > > > > meaning of " love " and " absolute aloness " and " no authorithy " or > > > > > > some > > > > > > other > > > > > > names in place....maybe then one could speculate upon the > > > > > > " direction " > > > > > > of > > > > > > the > > > > > > nature of this unknown matrix... > > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > the nonlinear matrix is quite amazing fun. > > > > > > > > > > things, experiences, lives popping in and out. > > > > > > > > > > perceivers with perceived. > > > > > > > > > > endless mirrors. > > > > > > > > > > endless dramas. > > > > > > > > > > endless forms. > > > > > > > > > > never knowing. > > > > > > > > > > - d - > > > > > > > > > > Or...perhaps... the very same thing happening again and > > > > > again...nothing > > > > > ever > > > > > happened otherwise..never. Why not...who can tell? > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > there are no things. > > > > > > > > nothing happens. > > > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > > > What things are not? > > > > -geo- > > > > > > are not what? > > > > > > things are not what. > > > > > > what are you trying to say? > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > Very simple. How can you referr to something and say it is not? If it is > > > referrable its because it is. > > > -geo- > > > > no that's not simple. > > > > this however is: > > > > how would you say Santa Claus is not? > > > > or does saying (or asking) that.. > > > > in that form and fashion.. > > > > using those words. > > > > make him: real..substantive.. > > > > actually a " being " that is? > > > > who are you trying to kid? > > > > yourself? > > > > there is no self so quit trying to kid " your " self. > > > > or does the referent confuse you? > > > > .b b.b. > > > > Santa Claus is a concept and you are referring to it as that. Now, in " the > > very same thing happening again and again...nothing ever happened > > otherwise..never. " you can question the nature of the thing that is our > > personal history that we call life, but to say it is not, makes no sense. > > I > > can then replay: the very same no-thing happening again.... " > > > > Any further doubts dont hesitate to ask... > > -geo- > > there are no doubts. > > that's dumb. > > .b b.b. > > Good. So that clears any pending issues upon " things " . > -geo- as long as you wish you may live in your glass tower of illusion. things seem clear and cleared up in glass houses don't they? it's no skin off of me and i really don't care. i have nothing pending. but i am a stockholder. ..b b.b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 - roberibus111 Nisargadatta Monday, August 03, 2009 10:16 AM Re: And then what.......? Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > roberibus111 > Nisargadatta > Monday, August 03, 2009 10:06 AM > Re: And then what.......? > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > roberibus111 > > Nisargadatta > > Monday, August 03, 2009 9:29 AM > > Re: And then what.......? > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > roberibus111 > > > Nisargadatta > > > Monday, August 03, 2009 8:09 AM > > > Re: And then what.......? > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > roberibus111 > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > Sunday, August 02, 2009 10:42 PM > > > > Re: And then what.......? > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > dan330033 > > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > > Sunday, August 02, 2009 2:14 PM > > > > > Re: And then what.......? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > dan330033 > > > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > > > Saturday, August 01, 2009 9:35 PM > > > > > > Re: And then what.......? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Geovani " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " When there is the conviction that there is a separate inner > > > > > > > entity, > > > > > > > then > > > > > > > there will be the same conviction in some next life " ...or > > > > > > > something > > > > > > > like > > > > > > > that - is often said. But is that not just pure speculation, > > > > > > > pure > > > > > > > theory? > > > > > > > When the light of this consciousness is gone, who knows what > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > happen > > > > > > > next? Who can say that whatever conviction or lack of it in > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > life > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > hold in some next event? We know nothing about it. There may > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > perception of non-dual awareness here and now....bu the body > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > die, > > > > > > > memory lost, consciousness gone, > > > > > > > and........and.......and.......then.....then.....WHAT? IMHO > > > > > > > nobady > > > > > > > knows. > > > > > > > There may be a " next " life as a frog, or a human even more > > > > > > > egotistic > > > > > > > then > > > > > > > the one here now, or perhaps something totaly /completely > > > > > > > different....Or > > > > > > > perhaps I am mistaken? > > > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > hi geo - > > > > > > > > > > > > lives are not arranged linearly, not even for one life, let > > > > > > alone > > > > > > for > > > > > > many. > > > > > > > > > > > > only the imagined center can pretend that it has a position in a > > > > > > brain > > > > > > from > > > > > > which to calculate a line of lives going forward and back. > > > > > > > > > > > > there is no before or after, except when conceptually imagining, > > > > > > based > > > > > > on > > > > > > the fictitious center. > > > > > > > > > > > > and since imagining befores and afters and straight lines leads > > > > > > to > > > > > > having > > > > > > jobs, building cities and highways, winning wars, and so on ... > > > > > > it > > > > > > gained > > > > > > a > > > > > > lot of popularity over the centuries. > > > > > > > > > > > > without ever having a vote, the imagined center and its line of > > > > > > befores > > > > > > and > > > > > > afters was put into office. > > > > > > > > > > > > and it's been reigning as the dictator for a long time. > > > > > > > > > > > > only, there isn't any (time that is). > > > > > > > > > > > > so, the deposing of the dictator who never got elected is an > > > > > > ever-immanent > > > > > > event. > > > > > > > > > > > > this nothing is the nothing before you were born, while you are > > > > > > breathing, > > > > > > and after this body's last breath. > > > > > > > > > > > > the breathing of this body is involuntary. > > > > > > > > > > > > so is everything else. > > > > > > > > > > > > - D - > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes I see it the same way, although I am not sure whether it > > > > > > adresses > > > > > > the > > > > > > issue raised: that we dont know. But...is there anything we > > > > > > could > > > > > > say > > > > > > about > > > > > > the matter of this non-linear matrix of events that we learned > > > > > > to > > > > > > call > > > > > > life, > > > > > > or lives? Perhaps if one considers very carefully, with > > > > > > profundity, > > > > > > the > > > > > > meaning of " love " and " absolute aloness " and " no authorithy " or > > > > > > some > > > > > > other > > > > > > names in place....maybe then one could speculate upon the > > > > > > " direction " > > > > > > of > > > > > > the > > > > > > nature of this unknown matrix... > > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > the nonlinear matrix is quite amazing fun. > > > > > > > > > > things, experiences, lives popping in and out. > > > > > > > > > > perceivers with perceived. > > > > > > > > > > endless mirrors. > > > > > > > > > > endless dramas. > > > > > > > > > > endless forms. > > > > > > > > > > never knowing. > > > > > > > > > > - d - > > > > > > > > > > Or...perhaps... the very same thing happening again and > > > > > again...nothing > > > > > ever > > > > > happened otherwise..never. Why not...who can tell? > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > there are no things. > > > > > > > > nothing happens. > > > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > > > What things are not? > > > > -geo- > > > > > > are not what? > > > > > > things are not what. > > > > > > what are you trying to say? > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > Very simple. How can you referr to something and say it is not? If it > > > is > > > referrable its because it is. > > > -geo- > > > > no that's not simple. > > > > this however is: > > > > how would you say Santa Claus is not? > > > > or does saying (or asking) that.. > > > > in that form and fashion.. > > > > using those words. > > > > make him: real..substantive.. > > > > actually a " being " that is? > > > > who are you trying to kid? > > > > yourself? > > > > there is no self so quit trying to kid " your " self. > > > > or does the referent confuse you? > > > > .b b.b. > > > > Santa Claus is a concept and you are referring to it as that. Now, in > > " the > > very same thing happening again and again...nothing ever happened > > otherwise..never. " you can question the nature of the thing that is our > > personal history that we call life, but to say it is not, makes no > > sense. > > I > > can then replay: the very same no-thing happening again.... " > > > > Any further doubts dont hesitate to ask... > > -geo- > > there are no doubts. > > that's dumb. > > .b b.b. > > Good. So that clears any pending issues upon " things " . > -geo- as long as you wish you may live in your glass tower of illusion. things seem clear and cleared up in glass houses don't they? it's no skin off of me and i really don't care. i have nothing pending. but i am a stockholder. ..b b.b. I dont like holding into things, much the less stocks... I am a trader. -geo- avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090526-0, 26/05/2009 Tested on: 3/8/2009 10:18:04 avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > roberibus111 > Nisargadatta > Monday, August 03, 2009 10:16 AM > Re: And then what.......? > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > roberibus111 > > Nisargadatta > > Monday, August 03, 2009 10:06 AM > > Re: And then what.......? > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > roberibus111 > > > Nisargadatta > > > Monday, August 03, 2009 9:29 AM > > > Re: And then what.......? > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > roberibus111 > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > Monday, August 03, 2009 8:09 AM > > > > Re: And then what.......? > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > roberibus111 > > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > > Sunday, August 02, 2009 10:42 PM > > > > > Re: And then what.......? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > dan330033 > > > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > > > Sunday, August 02, 2009 2:14 PM > > > > > > Re: And then what.......? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > dan330033 > > > > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > > > > Saturday, August 01, 2009 9:35 PM > > > > > > > Re: And then what.......? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Geovani " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " When there is the conviction that there is a separate inner > > > > > > > > entity, > > > > > > > > then > > > > > > > > there will be the same conviction in some next life " ...or > > > > > > > > something > > > > > > > > like > > > > > > > > that - is often said. But is that not just pure speculation, > > > > > > > > pure > > > > > > > > theory? > > > > > > > > When the light of this consciousness is gone, who knows what > > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > happen > > > > > > > > next? Who can say that whatever conviction or lack of it in > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > life > > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > hold in some next event? We know nothing about it. There may > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > perception of non-dual awareness here and now....bu the body > > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > die, > > > > > > > > memory lost, consciousness gone, > > > > > > > > and........and.......and.......then.....then.....WHAT? IMHO > > > > > > > > nobady > > > > > > > > knows. > > > > > > > > There may be a " next " life as a frog, or a human even more > > > > > > > > egotistic > > > > > > > > then > > > > > > > > the one here now, or perhaps something totaly /completely > > > > > > > > different....Or > > > > > > > > perhaps I am mistaken? > > > > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hi geo - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > lives are not arranged linearly, not even for one life, let > > > > > > > alone > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > many. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only the imagined center can pretend that it has a position in a > > > > > > > brain > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > which to calculate a line of lives going forward and back. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there is no before or after, except when conceptually imagining, > > > > > > > based > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > the fictitious center. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and since imagining befores and afters and straight lines leads > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > having > > > > > > > jobs, building cities and highways, winning wars, and so on ... > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > gained > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > lot of popularity over the centuries. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > without ever having a vote, the imagined center and its line of > > > > > > > befores > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > afters was put into office. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and it's been reigning as the dictator for a long time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only, there isn't any (time that is). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > so, the deposing of the dictator who never got elected is an > > > > > > > ever-immanent > > > > > > > event. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this nothing is the nothing before you were born, while you are > > > > > > > breathing, > > > > > > > and after this body's last breath. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the breathing of this body is involuntary. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > so is everything else. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - D - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes I see it the same way, although I am not sure whether it > > > > > > > adresses > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > issue raised: that we dont know. But...is there anything we > > > > > > > could > > > > > > > say > > > > > > > about > > > > > > > the matter of this non-linear matrix of events that we learned > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > call > > > > > > > life, > > > > > > > or lives? Perhaps if one considers very carefully, with > > > > > > > profundity, > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > meaning of " love " and " absolute aloness " and " no authorithy " or > > > > > > > some > > > > > > > other > > > > > > > names in place....maybe then one could speculate upon the > > > > > > > " direction " > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > nature of this unknown matrix... > > > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > the nonlinear matrix is quite amazing fun. > > > > > > > > > > > > things, experiences, lives popping in and out. > > > > > > > > > > > > perceivers with perceived. > > > > > > > > > > > > endless mirrors. > > > > > > > > > > > > endless dramas. > > > > > > > > > > > > endless forms. > > > > > > > > > > > > never knowing. > > > > > > > > > > > > - d - > > > > > > > > > > > > Or...perhaps... the very same thing happening again and > > > > > > again...nothing > > > > > > ever > > > > > > happened otherwise..never. Why not...who can tell? > > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > there are no things. > > > > > > > > > > nothing happens. > > > > > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > > > > > What things are not? > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > are not what? > > > > > > > > things are not what. > > > > > > > > what are you trying to say? > > > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > > > Very simple. How can you referr to something and say it is not? If it > > > > is > > > > referrable its because it is. > > > > -geo- > > > > > > no that's not simple. > > > > > > this however is: > > > > > > how would you say Santa Claus is not? > > > > > > or does saying (or asking) that.. > > > > > > in that form and fashion.. > > > > > > using those words. > > > > > > make him: real..substantive.. > > > > > > actually a " being " that is? > > > > > > who are you trying to kid? > > > > > > yourself? > > > > > > there is no self so quit trying to kid " your " self. > > > > > > or does the referent confuse you? > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > Santa Claus is a concept and you are referring to it as that. Now, in > > > " the > > > very same thing happening again and again...nothing ever happened > > > otherwise..never. " you can question the nature of the thing that is our > > > personal history that we call life, but to say it is not, makes no > > > sense. > > > I > > > can then replay: the very same no-thing happening again.... " > > > > > > Any further doubts dont hesitate to ask... > > > -geo- > > > > there are no doubts. > > > > that's dumb. > > > > .b b.b. > > > > Good. So that clears any pending issues upon " things " . > > -geo- > > as long as you wish you may live in your glass tower of illusion. > > things seem clear and cleared up in glass houses don't they? > > it's no skin off of me and i really don't care. > > i have nothing pending. > > but i am a stockholder. > > .b b.b. > > I dont like holding into things, much the less stocks... I am a trader. > -geo- with whom does this trading occur. perchance we are talking of different concerns. it is of little import in any case. ..b b.b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 - roberibus111 Nisargadatta Monday, August 03, 2009 10:54 AM Re: And then what.......? Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > roberibus111 > Nisargadatta > Monday, August 03, 2009 10:16 AM > Re: And then what.......? > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > roberibus111 > > Nisargadatta > > Monday, August 03, 2009 10:06 AM > > Re: And then what.......? > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > roberibus111 > > > Nisargadatta > > > Monday, August 03, 2009 9:29 AM > > > Re: And then what.......? > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > roberibus111 > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > Monday, August 03, 2009 8:09 AM > > > > Re: And then what.......? > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > roberibus111 > > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > > Sunday, August 02, 2009 10:42 PM > > > > > Re: And then what.......? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > dan330033 > > > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > > > Sunday, August 02, 2009 2:14 PM > > > > > > Re: And then what.......? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > dan330033 > > > > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > > > > Saturday, August 01, 2009 9:35 PM > > > > > > > Re: And then what.......? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Geovani " <inandor@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " When there is the conviction that there is a separate inner > > > > > > > > entity, > > > > > > > > then > > > > > > > > there will be the same conviction in some next life " ...or > > > > > > > > something > > > > > > > > like > > > > > > > > that - is often said. But is that not just pure speculation, > > > > > > > > pure > > > > > > > > theory? > > > > > > > > When the light of this consciousness is gone, who knows what > > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > happen > > > > > > > > next? Who can say that whatever conviction or lack of it in > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > life > > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > hold in some next event? We know nothing about it. There may > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > perception of non-dual awareness here and now....bu the body > > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > die, > > > > > > > > memory lost, consciousness gone, > > > > > > > > and........and.......and.......then.....then.....WHAT? IMHO > > > > > > > > nobady > > > > > > > > knows. > > > > > > > > There may be a " next " life as a frog, or a human even more > > > > > > > > egotistic > > > > > > > > then > > > > > > > > the one here now, or perhaps something totaly /completely > > > > > > > > different....Or > > > > > > > > perhaps I am mistaken? > > > > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hi geo - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > lives are not arranged linearly, not even for one life, let > > > > > > > alone > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > many. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only the imagined center can pretend that it has a position in > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > brain > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > which to calculate a line of lives going forward and back. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there is no before or after, except when conceptually > > > > > > > imagining, > > > > > > > based > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > the fictitious center. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and since imagining befores and afters and straight lines > > > > > > > leads > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > having > > > > > > > jobs, building cities and highways, winning wars, and so on > > > > > > > ... > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > gained > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > lot of popularity over the centuries. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > without ever having a vote, the imagined center and its line > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > befores > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > afters was put into office. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and it's been reigning as the dictator for a long time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only, there isn't any (time that is). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > so, the deposing of the dictator who never got elected is an > > > > > > > ever-immanent > > > > > > > event. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this nothing is the nothing before you were born, while you > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > breathing, > > > > > > > and after this body's last breath. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the breathing of this body is involuntary. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > so is everything else. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - D - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes I see it the same way, although I am not sure whether it > > > > > > > adresses > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > issue raised: that we dont know. But...is there anything we > > > > > > > could > > > > > > > say > > > > > > > about > > > > > > > the matter of this non-linear matrix of events that we learned > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > call > > > > > > > life, > > > > > > > or lives? Perhaps if one considers very carefully, with > > > > > > > profundity, > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > meaning of " love " and " absolute aloness " and " no authorithy " > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > some > > > > > > > other > > > > > > > names in place....maybe then one could speculate upon the > > > > > > > " direction " > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > nature of this unknown matrix... > > > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > the nonlinear matrix is quite amazing fun. > > > > > > > > > > > > things, experiences, lives popping in and out. > > > > > > > > > > > > perceivers with perceived. > > > > > > > > > > > > endless mirrors. > > > > > > > > > > > > endless dramas. > > > > > > > > > > > > endless forms. > > > > > > > > > > > > never knowing. > > > > > > > > > > > > - d - > > > > > > > > > > > > Or...perhaps... the very same thing happening again and > > > > > > again...nothing > > > > > > ever > > > > > > happened otherwise..never. Why not...who can tell? > > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > there are no things. > > > > > > > > > > nothing happens. > > > > > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > > > > > What things are not? > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > are not what? > > > > > > > > things are not what. > > > > > > > > what are you trying to say? > > > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > > > Very simple. How can you referr to something and say it is not? If > > > > it > > > > is > > > > referrable its because it is. > > > > -geo- > > > > > > no that's not simple. > > > > > > this however is: > > > > > > how would you say Santa Claus is not? > > > > > > or does saying (or asking) that.. > > > > > > in that form and fashion.. > > > > > > using those words. > > > > > > make him: real..substantive.. > > > > > > actually a " being " that is? > > > > > > who are you trying to kid? > > > > > > yourself? > > > > > > there is no self so quit trying to kid " your " self. > > > > > > or does the referent confuse you? > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > Santa Claus is a concept and you are referring to it as that. Now, in > > > " the > > > very same thing happening again and again...nothing ever happened > > > otherwise..never. " you can question the nature of the thing that is > > > our > > > personal history that we call life, but to say it is not, makes no > > > sense. > > > I > > > can then replay: the very same no-thing happening again.... " > > > > > > Any further doubts dont hesitate to ask... > > > -geo- > > > > there are no doubts. > > > > that's dumb. > > > > .b b.b. > > > > Good. So that clears any pending issues upon " things " . > > -geo- > > as long as you wish you may live in your glass tower of illusion. > > things seem clear and cleared up in glass houses don't they? > > it's no skin off of me and i really don't care. > > i have nothing pending. > > but i am a stockholder. > > .b b.b. > > I dont like holding into things, much the less stocks... I am a trader. > -geo- with whom does this trading occur. perchance we are talking of different concerns. it is of little import in any case. ..b b.b. Trading occur among people buying and selling stocks or futures, or options, or currencies, or etc... The main difference is in the holding time. Trading is short term/very short term holding and usually based on technical analysis. Investing in stocks is based in more fundamental values/analysis (and macro economical parameters). -geo- avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090526-0, 26/05/2009 Tested on: 3/8/2009 10:59:36 avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > dan330033 > > Nisargadatta > > Sunday, August 02, 2009 2:14 PM > > Re: And then what.......? > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > dan330033 > > > Nisargadatta > > > Saturday, August 01, 2009 9:35 PM > > > Re: And then what.......? > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Geovani " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > " When there is the conviction that there is a separate inner entity, > > > > then > > > > there will be the same conviction in some next life " ...or something like > > > > that - is often said. But is that not just pure speculation, pure > > > > theory? > > > > When the light of this consciousness is gone, who knows what will happen > > > > next? Who can say that whatever conviction or lack of it in this life > > > > will > > > > hold in some next event? We know nothing about it. There may be the > > > > perception of non-dual awareness here and now....bu the body will die, > > > > memory lost, consciousness gone, > > > > and........and.......and.......then.....then.....WHAT? IMHO nobady > > > > knows. > > > > There may be a " next " life as a frog, or a human even more egotistic > > > > then > > > > the one here now, or perhaps something totaly /completely > > > > different....Or > > > > perhaps I am mistaken? > > > > -geo- > > > > > > hi geo - > > > > > > lives are not arranged linearly, not even for one life, let alone for > > > many. > > > > > > only the imagined center can pretend that it has a position in a brain > > > from > > > which to calculate a line of lives going forward and back. > > > > > > there is no before or after, except when conceptually imagining, based on > > > the fictitious center. > > > > > > and since imagining befores and afters and straight lines leads to having > > > jobs, building cities and highways, winning wars, and so on ... it gained > > > a > > > lot of popularity over the centuries. > > > > > > without ever having a vote, the imagined center and its line of befores > > > and > > > afters was put into office. > > > > > > and it's been reigning as the dictator for a long time. > > > > > > only, there isn't any (time that is). > > > > > > so, the deposing of the dictator who never got elected is an ever-immanent > > > event. > > > > > > this nothing is the nothing before you were born, while you are breathing, > > > and after this body's last breath. > > > > > > the breathing of this body is involuntary. > > > > > > so is everything else. > > > > > > - D - > > > > > > Yes I see it the same way, although I am not sure whether it adresses the > > > issue raised: that we dont know. But...is there anything we could say > > > about > > > the matter of this non-linear matrix of events that we learned to call > > > life, > > > or lives? Perhaps if one considers very carefully, with profundity, the > > > meaning of " love " and " absolute aloness " and " no authorithy " or some other > > > names in place....maybe then one could speculate upon the " direction " of > > > the > > > nature of this unknown matrix... > > > -geo- > > > > the nonlinear matrix is quite amazing fun. > > > > things, experiences, lives popping in and out. > > > > perceivers with perceived. > > > > endless mirrors. > > > > endless dramas. > > > > endless forms. > > > > never knowing. > > > > - d - > > > > Or...perhaps... the very same thing happening again and again...nothing ever > > happened otherwise..never. Why not...who can tell? > > -geo- > > > there are no things. > > nothing happens. > > .b b.b. in the sentence " nothing happens, " was anything added with the word 'happens'? just this: " nothing " was anything added by the word " nothing " ? just this: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > dan330033 > > > Nisargadatta > > > Sunday, August 02, 2009 2:14 PM > > > Re: And then what.......? > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > dan330033 > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > Saturday, August 01, 2009 9:35 PM > > > > Re: And then what.......? > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Geovani " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > " When there is the conviction that there is a separate inner entity, > > > > > then > > > > > there will be the same conviction in some next life " ...or something like > > > > > that - is often said. But is that not just pure speculation, pure > > > > > theory? > > > > > When the light of this consciousness is gone, who knows what will happen > > > > > next? Who can say that whatever conviction or lack of it in this life > > > > > will > > > > > hold in some next event? We know nothing about it. There may be the > > > > > perception of non-dual awareness here and now....bu the body will die, > > > > > memory lost, consciousness gone, > > > > > and........and.......and.......then.....then.....WHAT? IMHO nobady > > > > > knows. > > > > > There may be a " next " life as a frog, or a human even more egotistic > > > > > then > > > > > the one here now, or perhaps something totaly /completely > > > > > different....Or > > > > > perhaps I am mistaken? > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > hi geo - > > > > > > > > lives are not arranged linearly, not even for one life, let alone for > > > > many. > > > > > > > > only the imagined center can pretend that it has a position in a brain > > > > from > > > > which to calculate a line of lives going forward and back. > > > > > > > > there is no before or after, except when conceptually imagining, based on > > > > the fictitious center. > > > > > > > > and since imagining befores and afters and straight lines leads to having > > > > jobs, building cities and highways, winning wars, and so on ... it gained > > > > a > > > > lot of popularity over the centuries. > > > > > > > > without ever having a vote, the imagined center and its line of befores > > > > and > > > > afters was put into office. > > > > > > > > and it's been reigning as the dictator for a long time. > > > > > > > > only, there isn't any (time that is). > > > > > > > > so, the deposing of the dictator who never got elected is an ever-immanent > > > > event. > > > > > > > > this nothing is the nothing before you were born, while you are breathing, > > > > and after this body's last breath. > > > > > > > > the breathing of this body is involuntary. > > > > > > > > so is everything else. > > > > > > > > - D - > > > > > > > > Yes I see it the same way, although I am not sure whether it adresses the > > > > issue raised: that we dont know. But...is there anything we could say > > > > about > > > > the matter of this non-linear matrix of events that we learned to call > > > > life, > > > > or lives? Perhaps if one considers very carefully, with profundity, the > > > > meaning of " love " and " absolute aloness " and " no authorithy " or some other > > > > names in place....maybe then one could speculate upon the " direction " of > > > > the > > > > nature of this unknown matrix... > > > > -geo- > > > > > > the nonlinear matrix is quite amazing fun. > > > > > > things, experiences, lives popping in and out. > > > > > > perceivers with perceived. > > > > > > endless mirrors. > > > > > > endless dramas. > > > > > > endless forms. > > > > > > never knowing. > > > > > > - d - > > > > > > Or...perhaps... the very same thing happening again and again...nothing ever > > > happened otherwise..never. Why not...who can tell? > > > -geo- > > > > > > The meaning of anything said is past. > > > > -- Dan -- > > > > you've said that before. > > and you will again. > > time is a gnarly nothing dude. > > .b b.b. and Nothing is. - d - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > roberibus111 > Nisargadatta > Sunday, August 02, 2009 10:42 PM > Re: And then what.......? > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > dan330033 > > Nisargadatta > > Sunday, August 02, 2009 2:14 PM > > Re: And then what.......? > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > dan330033 > > > Nisargadatta > > > Saturday, August 01, 2009 9:35 PM > > > Re: And then what.......? > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Geovani " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > " When there is the conviction that there is a separate inner entity, > > > > then > > > > there will be the same conviction in some next life " ...or something > > > > like > > > > that - is often said. But is that not just pure speculation, pure > > > > theory? > > > > When the light of this consciousness is gone, who knows what will > > > > happen > > > > next? Who can say that whatever conviction or lack of it in this life > > > > will > > > > hold in some next event? We know nothing about it. There may be the > > > > perception of non-dual awareness here and now....bu the body will die, > > > > memory lost, consciousness gone, > > > > and........and.......and.......then.....then.....WHAT? IMHO nobady > > > > knows. > > > > There may be a " next " life as a frog, or a human even more egotistic > > > > then > > > > the one here now, or perhaps something totaly /completely > > > > different....Or > > > > perhaps I am mistaken? > > > > -geo- > > > > > > hi geo - > > > > > > lives are not arranged linearly, not even for one life, let alone for > > > many. > > > > > > only the imagined center can pretend that it has a position in a brain > > > from > > > which to calculate a line of lives going forward and back. > > > > > > there is no before or after, except when conceptually imagining, based > > > on > > > the fictitious center. > > > > > > and since imagining befores and afters and straight lines leads to > > > having > > > jobs, building cities and highways, winning wars, and so on ... it > > > gained > > > a > > > lot of popularity over the centuries. > > > > > > without ever having a vote, the imagined center and its line of befores > > > and > > > afters was put into office. > > > > > > and it's been reigning as the dictator for a long time. > > > > > > only, there isn't any (time that is). > > > > > > so, the deposing of the dictator who never got elected is an > > > ever-immanent > > > event. > > > > > > this nothing is the nothing before you were born, while you are > > > breathing, > > > and after this body's last breath. > > > > > > the breathing of this body is involuntary. > > > > > > so is everything else. > > > > > > - D - > > > > > > Yes I see it the same way, although I am not sure whether it adresses > > > the > > > issue raised: that we dont know. But...is there anything we could say > > > about > > > the matter of this non-linear matrix of events that we learned to call > > > life, > > > or lives? Perhaps if one considers very carefully, with profundity, the > > > meaning of " love " and " absolute aloness " and " no authorithy " or some > > > other > > > names in place....maybe then one could speculate upon the " direction " of > > > the > > > nature of this unknown matrix... > > > -geo- > > > > the nonlinear matrix is quite amazing fun. > > > > things, experiences, lives popping in and out. > > > > perceivers with perceived. > > > > endless mirrors. > > > > endless dramas. > > > > endless forms. > > > > never knowing. > > > > - d - > > > > Or...perhaps... the very same thing happening again and again...nothing > > ever > > happened otherwise..never. Why not...who can tell? > > -geo- > > there are no things. > > nothing happens. > > .b b.b. > > What things are not? > -geo- indeed. to negate requires something to be negated. nothing implies some thing. some thing implies nothing. either implies neither. neither implies both. - D - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > roberibus111 > > Nisargadatta > > Monday, August 03, 2009 8:09 AM > > Re: And then what.......? > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > roberibus111 > > > Nisargadatta > > > Sunday, August 02, 2009 10:42 PM > > > Re: And then what.......? > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > dan330033 > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > Sunday, August 02, 2009 2:14 PM > > > > Re: And then what.......? > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > dan330033 > > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > > Saturday, August 01, 2009 9:35 PM > > > > > Re: And then what.......? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Geovani " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > " When there is the conviction that there is a separate inner entity, > > > > > > then > > > > > > there will be the same conviction in some next life " ...or something > > > > > > like > > > > > > that - is often said. But is that not just pure speculation, pure > > > > > > theory? > > > > > > When the light of this consciousness is gone, who knows what will > > > > > > happen > > > > > > next? Who can say that whatever conviction or lack of it in this > > > > > > life > > > > > > will > > > > > > hold in some next event? We know nothing about it. There may be the > > > > > > perception of non-dual awareness here and now....bu the body will > > > > > > die, > > > > > > memory lost, consciousness gone, > > > > > > and........and.......and.......then.....then.....WHAT? IMHO nobady > > > > > > knows. > > > > > > There may be a " next " life as a frog, or a human even more egotistic > > > > > > then > > > > > > the one here now, or perhaps something totaly /completely > > > > > > different....Or > > > > > > perhaps I am mistaken? > > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > hi geo - > > > > > > > > > > lives are not arranged linearly, not even for one life, let alone for > > > > > many. > > > > > > > > > > only the imagined center can pretend that it has a position in a brain > > > > > from > > > > > which to calculate a line of lives going forward and back. > > > > > > > > > > there is no before or after, except when conceptually imagining, based > > > > > on > > > > > the fictitious center. > > > > > > > > > > and since imagining befores and afters and straight lines leads to > > > > > having > > > > > jobs, building cities and highways, winning wars, and so on ... it > > > > > gained > > > > > a > > > > > lot of popularity over the centuries. > > > > > > > > > > without ever having a vote, the imagined center and its line of > > > > > befores > > > > > and > > > > > afters was put into office. > > > > > > > > > > and it's been reigning as the dictator for a long time. > > > > > > > > > > only, there isn't any (time that is). > > > > > > > > > > so, the deposing of the dictator who never got elected is an > > > > > ever-immanent > > > > > event. > > > > > > > > > > this nothing is the nothing before you were born, while you are > > > > > breathing, > > > > > and after this body's last breath. > > > > > > > > > > the breathing of this body is involuntary. > > > > > > > > > > so is everything else. > > > > > > > > > > - D - > > > > > > > > > > Yes I see it the same way, although I am not sure whether it adresses > > > > > the > > > > > issue raised: that we dont know. But...is there anything we could say > > > > > about > > > > > the matter of this non-linear matrix of events that we learned to call > > > > > life, > > > > > or lives? Perhaps if one considers very carefully, with profundity, > > > > > the > > > > > meaning of " love " and " absolute aloness " and " no authorithy " or some > > > > > other > > > > > names in place....maybe then one could speculate upon the " direction " > > > > > of > > > > > the > > > > > nature of this unknown matrix... > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > the nonlinear matrix is quite amazing fun. > > > > > > > > things, experiences, lives popping in and out. > > > > > > > > perceivers with perceived. > > > > > > > > endless mirrors. > > > > > > > > endless dramas. > > > > > > > > endless forms. > > > > > > > > never knowing. > > > > > > > > - d - > > > > > > > > Or...perhaps... the very same thing happening again and again...nothing > > > > ever > > > > happened otherwise..never. Why not...who can tell? > > > > -geo- > > > > > > there are no things. > > > > > > nothing happens. > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > What things are not? > > > -geo- > > > > are not what? > > > > things are not what. > > > > what are you trying to say? > > > > .b b.b. > > > > Very simple. How can you referr to something and say it is not? If it is > > referrable its because it is. > > -geo- > > > > no that's not simple. > > this however is: > > how would you say Santa Claus is not? > > or does saying (or asking) that.. > > in that form and fashion.. > > using those words. > > make him: real..substantive.. > > actually a " being " that is? > > who are you trying to kid? > > yourself? > > there is no self so quit trying to kid " your " self. > > or does the referent confuse you? > > .b b.b. it would mean there is an idea of Santa Claus existing. you saying that Santa doesn't exist, affirms the existence of the idea of Santa Claus existing, so that you can negate the existence of Santa Claus. Any negation affirms at least the idea of an affirmation, which is being negated. - D - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > roberibus111 > Nisargadatta > Monday, August 03, 2009 9:29 AM > Re: And then what.......? > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > roberibus111 > > Nisargadatta > > Monday, August 03, 2009 8:09 AM > > Re: And then what.......? > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > roberibus111 > > > Nisargadatta > > > Sunday, August 02, 2009 10:42 PM > > > Re: And then what.......? > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > dan330033 > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > Sunday, August 02, 2009 2:14 PM > > > > Re: And then what.......? > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > dan330033 > > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > > Saturday, August 01, 2009 9:35 PM > > > > > Re: And then what.......? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Geovani " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > " When there is the conviction that there is a separate inner > > > > > > entity, > > > > > > then > > > > > > there will be the same conviction in some next life " ...or > > > > > > something > > > > > > like > > > > > > that - is often said. But is that not just pure speculation, pure > > > > > > theory? > > > > > > When the light of this consciousness is gone, who knows what will > > > > > > happen > > > > > > next? Who can say that whatever conviction or lack of it in this > > > > > > life > > > > > > will > > > > > > hold in some next event? We know nothing about it. There may be > > > > > > the > > > > > > perception of non-dual awareness here and now....bu the body will > > > > > > die, > > > > > > memory lost, consciousness gone, > > > > > > and........and.......and.......then.....then.....WHAT? IMHO nobady > > > > > > knows. > > > > > > There may be a " next " life as a frog, or a human even more > > > > > > egotistic > > > > > > then > > > > > > the one here now, or perhaps something totaly /completely > > > > > > different....Or > > > > > > perhaps I am mistaken? > > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > hi geo - > > > > > > > > > > lives are not arranged linearly, not even for one life, let alone > > > > > for > > > > > many. > > > > > > > > > > only the imagined center can pretend that it has a position in a > > > > > brain > > > > > from > > > > > which to calculate a line of lives going forward and back. > > > > > > > > > > there is no before or after, except when conceptually imagining, > > > > > based > > > > > on > > > > > the fictitious center. > > > > > > > > > > and since imagining befores and afters and straight lines leads to > > > > > having > > > > > jobs, building cities and highways, winning wars, and so on ... it > > > > > gained > > > > > a > > > > > lot of popularity over the centuries. > > > > > > > > > > without ever having a vote, the imagined center and its line of > > > > > befores > > > > > and > > > > > afters was put into office. > > > > > > > > > > and it's been reigning as the dictator for a long time. > > > > > > > > > > only, there isn't any (time that is). > > > > > > > > > > so, the deposing of the dictator who never got elected is an > > > > > ever-immanent > > > > > event. > > > > > > > > > > this nothing is the nothing before you were born, while you are > > > > > breathing, > > > > > and after this body's last breath. > > > > > > > > > > the breathing of this body is involuntary. > > > > > > > > > > so is everything else. > > > > > > > > > > - D - > > > > > > > > > > Yes I see it the same way, although I am not sure whether it > > > > > adresses > > > > > the > > > > > issue raised: that we dont know. But...is there anything we could > > > > > say > > > > > about > > > > > the matter of this non-linear matrix of events that we learned to > > > > > call > > > > > life, > > > > > or lives? Perhaps if one considers very carefully, with profundity, > > > > > the > > > > > meaning of " love " and " absolute aloness " and " no authorithy " or some > > > > > other > > > > > names in place....maybe then one could speculate upon the > > > > > " direction " > > > > > of > > > > > the > > > > > nature of this unknown matrix... > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > the nonlinear matrix is quite amazing fun. > > > > > > > > things, experiences, lives popping in and out. > > > > > > > > perceivers with perceived. > > > > > > > > endless mirrors. > > > > > > > > endless dramas. > > > > > > > > endless forms. > > > > > > > > never knowing. > > > > > > > > - d - > > > > > > > > Or...perhaps... the very same thing happening again and > > > > again...nothing > > > > ever > > > > happened otherwise..never. Why not...who can tell? > > > > -geo- > > > > > > there are no things. > > > > > > nothing happens. > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > What things are not? > > > -geo- > > > > are not what? > > > > things are not what. > > > > what are you trying to say? > > > > .b b.b. > > > > Very simple. How can you referr to something and say it is not? If it is > > referrable its because it is. > > -geo- > > no that's not simple. > > this however is: > > how would you say Santa Claus is not? > > or does saying (or asking) that.. > > in that form and fashion.. > > using those words. > > make him: real..substantive.. > > actually a " being " that is? > > who are you trying to kid? > > yourself? > > there is no self so quit trying to kid " your " self. > > or does the referent confuse you? > > .b b.b. > > Santa Claus is a concept and you are referring to it as that. Now, in " the > very same thing happening again and again...nothing ever happened > otherwise..never. " you can question the nature of the thing that is our > personal history that we call life, but to say it is not, makes no sense. I > can then replay: the very same no-thing happening again.... " > > Any further doubts dont hesitate to ask... > -geo- The observation that " nothing ever happened, " said from awareness, is not intended, at least from my perspective, as a negation of anything except ignore-ance. It is similar to saying this: " all perceptions are transitory. awareness understands the extent of the transitory nature of perception. there is no time for an observer to separate from the observed. with no time involved, one cannot have anything as existing or as not existing. anything perceived as happening requires a kind of ignore-ance. one must ignore the extent of the transitoriness of phenomena in order to have any experience. " so, saying, " nothing happened, " or " nothing is, " is, at least for me, a kind of short-hand way of saying the above. thus " being is " or " all is " is the affirmative side of " nothing ever happened. " and one can participate in the daily common-sense consensus of an existing world with no problem. one is aware of the trance involved. the trance involves a suspension of being fully aware. yet, there is an amazement in the participation. the world of things, qualities, people, language - it's a remarkable " act " of awareness. it's the creativity of " as if " -- as if something could be located, as if something could have a quality, as if people could exist and interact. amazing in that no time is actually involved, and yet time " appears, " beings " appear " - which is the same thing, actually. I once read some teachings about this by Dogen; he called it " being-time. " - Dan - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > > The observation that " nothing ever happened, " said from awareness, is not intended, at least from my perspective, as a negation of anything except ignore-ance. > > It is similar to saying this: > > " all perceptions are transitory. > > awareness understands the extent of the transitory nature of perception. > > there is no time for an observer to separate from the observed. > > with no time involved, one cannot have anything as existing or as not existing. > > anything perceived as happening requires a kind of ignore-ance. > > one must ignore the extent of the transitoriness of phenomena in order to have any experience. " > > so, saying, " nothing happened, " or " nothing is, " is, at least for me, a kind of short-hand way of saying the above. > > thus " being is " or " all is " is the affirmative side of " nothing ever happened. " > > and one can participate in the daily common-sense consensus of an existing world with no problem. > > one is aware of the trance involved. > > the trance involves a suspension of being fully aware. > > yet, there is an amazement in the participation. > > the world of things, qualities, people, language - it's a remarkable " act " of awareness. > > it's the creativity of " as if " -- as if something could be located, as if something could have a quality, as if people could exist and interact. > > amazing in that no time is actually involved, and yet time " appears, " > beings " appear " - which is the same thing, actually. > > I once read some teachings about this by Dogen; he called it " being-time. " > > - Dan - It seems like it shouldn't be possible. " Moving without moving? " As though 'physical life' itself were a trance, a certain degree of unawareness. P.S. if Dogen is a dog, is Dzogchen a dzog?;-). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 - Tim G. Nisargadatta Monday, August 03, 2009 3:20 PM Re: And then what.......? Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > > The observation that " nothing ever happened, " said from awareness, is not > intended, at least from my perspective, as a negation of anything except > ignore-ance. > > It is similar to saying this: > > " all perceptions are transitory. > > awareness understands the extent of the transitory nature of perception. > > there is no time for an observer to separate from the observed. > > with no time involved, one cannot have anything as existing or as not > existing. > > anything perceived as happening requires a kind of ignore-ance. > > one must ignore the extent of the transitoriness of phenomena in order to > have any experience. " > > so, saying, " nothing happened, " or " nothing is, " is, at least for me, a > kind of short-hand way of saying the above. > > thus " being is " or " all is " is the affirmative side of " nothing ever > happened. " > > and one can participate in the daily common-sense consensus of an existing > world with no problem. > > one is aware of the trance involved. > > the trance involves a suspension of being fully aware. > > yet, there is an amazement in the participation. > > the world of things, qualities, people, language - it's a remarkable " act " > of awareness. > > it's the creativity of " as if " -- as if something could be located, as if > something could have a quality, as if people could exist and interact. > > amazing in that no time is actually involved, and yet time " appears, " > beings " appear " - which is the same thing, actually. > > I once read some teachings about this by Dogen; he called it " being-time. " > > - Dan - It seems like it shouldn't be possible. " Moving without moving? " As though 'physical life' itself were a trance, a certain degree of unawareness. P.S. if Dogen is a dog, is Dzogchen a dzog?;-). -tim- Funny I dont see it the way both of you do. I dont think there is need of any degree of unawareness to the seeing of the world. In fact sounds like an absurdity to say that I must be unaware in order to live. I think you are " stamping " some prerrogatives, some thought-out qualities in order to some " objectivated awareness " be. I dont think that perception needs darkness or any degree of shadowing in awareness. The ultimate is always unconditionaly without qualities. The perception of qualities, time, space, or any event of any kind... of illusion as such, thoughts, imagination, the false, does not fragment the wholeness of what is. -geo- avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090526-0, 26/05/2009 Tested on: 3/8/2009 15:51:26 avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 - geo Nisargadatta Monday, August 03, 2009 4:04 PM Re: Re: And then what.......? - Tim G. Nisargadatta Monday, August 03, 2009 3:20 PM Re: And then what.......? Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > > The observation that " nothing ever happened, " said from awareness, is not > intended, at least from my perspective, as a negation of anything except > ignore-ance. > > It is similar to saying this: > > " all perceptions are transitory. > > awareness understands the extent of the transitory nature of perception. > > there is no time for an observer to separate from the observed. > > with no time involved, one cannot have anything as existing or as not > existing. > > anything perceived as happening requires a kind of ignore-ance. > > one must ignore the extent of the transitoriness of phenomena in order to > have any experience. " > > so, saying, " nothing happened, " or " nothing is, " is, at least for me, a > kind of short-hand way of saying the above. > > thus " being is " or " all is " is the affirmative side of " nothing ever > happened. " > > and one can participate in the daily common-sense consensus of an existing > world with no problem. > > one is aware of the trance involved. > > the trance involves a suspension of being fully aware. > > yet, there is an amazement in the participation. > > the world of things, qualities, people, language - it's a remarkable " act " > of awareness. > > it's the creativity of " as if " -- as if something could be located, as if > something could have a quality, as if people could exist and interact. > > amazing in that no time is actually involved, and yet time " appears, " > beings " appear " - which is the same thing, actually. > > I once read some teachings about this by Dogen; he called it " being-time. " > > - Dan - It seems like it shouldn't be possible. " Moving without moving? " As though 'physical life' itself were a trance, a certain degree of unawareness. P.S. if Dogen is a dog, is Dzogchen a dzog?;-). -tim- Funny I dont see it the way both of you do. I dont think there is need of any degree of unawareness to the seeing of the world. In fact sounds like an absurdity to say that I must be unaware in order to live. I think you are " stamping " some prerrogatives, some thought-out qualities in order to some " objectivated awareness " be. I dont think that perception needs darkness or any degree of shadowing in awareness. The ultimate is always unconditionaly without qualities. The perception of qualities, time, space, or any event of any kind... of illusion as such, thoughts, imagination, the false, does not fragment the wholeness of what is. Actualy there is no life without perception of at least some kind, so this would lead one to say that there is no realization of the ultimate, of awareness, while there is life. I dont think this is a valid statement or fact. -geo- avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090526-0, 26/05/2009 Tested on: 3/8/2009 15:51:26 avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090526-0, 26/05/2009 Tested on: 3/8/2009 16:05:36 avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > Funny I dont see it the way both of you do. I dont think there is need of > any degree of unawareness to the seeing of the world. The unawareness (if any) is in the seeing of it as separate from oneself. > In fact sounds like an > absurdity to say that I must be unaware in order to live. Nobody ever said that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 > The observation that " nothing ever happened, " said from awareness, is not > intended, at least from my perspective, as a negation of anything except > ignore-ance. > > It is similar to saying this: > > " all perceptions are transitory. > > awareness understands the extent of the transitory nature of perception. > > there is no time for an observer to separate from the observed. > > with no time involved, one cannot have anything as existing or as not > existing. > > anything perceived as happening requires a kind of ignore-ance. > > one must ignore the extent of the transitoriness of phenomena in order to > have any experience. " > > so, saying, " nothing happened, " or " nothing is, " is, at least for me, a > kind of short-hand way of saying the above. > > thus " being is " or " all is " is the affirmative side of " nothing ever > happened. " > > and one can participate in the daily common-sense consensus of an existing > world with no problem. > > one is aware of the trance involved. > > the trance involves a suspension of being fully aware. > > yet, there is an amazement in the participation. > > the world of things, qualities, people, language - it's a remarkable " act " > of awareness. > > it's the creativity of " as if " -- as if something could be located, as if > something could have a quality, as if people could exist and interact. > > amazing in that no time is actually involved, and yet time " appears, " > beings " appear " - which is the same thing, actually. > > I once read some teachings about this by Dogen; he called it " being-time. " > > - Dan - It seems like it shouldn't be possible. " Moving without moving? " As though 'physical life' itself were a trance, a certain degree of unawareness. P.S. if Dogen is a dog, is Dzogchen a dzog?;-). -tim- Funny I dont see it the way both of you do. I dont think there is need of any degree of unawareness to the seeing of the world. In fact sounds like an absurdity to say that I must be unaware in order to live. I think you are " stamping " some prerrogatives, some thought-out qualities in order to some " objectivated awareness " be. I dont think that perception needs darkness or any degree of shadowing in awareness. The ultimate is always unconditionaly without qualities. The perception of qualities, time, space, or any event of any kind... of illusion as such, thoughts, imagination, the false, does not fragment the wholeness of what is. Actualy there is no life without perception of at least some kind, so this would lead one to say that there is no realization of the ultimate, of awareness, while there is life. I dont think this is a valid statement or fact. -geo- " Funny I dont see it the way both of you do. I dont think there is need of any degree of unawareness to the seeing of the world. " -geo- The unawareness (if any) is in the seeing of it as separate from oneself. -tim- Yes agree. Life can be lived without fragmentation. -geo- > In fact sounds like an > absurdity to say that I must be unaware in order to live. -geo- Nobody ever said that. -tim " As though 'physical life' itself were a trance, a certain degree of unawareness. " This statement of yours means what then? Are you perhaps suggesting to live a non-physical life in order to awareness to be? -geo- avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090526-0, 26/05/2009 Tested on: 3/8/2009 15:51:26 avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090526-0, 26/05/2009 Tested on: 3/8/2009 16:05:36 avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090526-0, 26/05/2009 Tested on: 3/8/2009 16:22:07 avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 - geo Nisargadatta Monday, August 03, 2009 4:37 PM Re: Re: And then what.......? > The observation that " nothing ever happened, " said from awareness, is not > intended, at least from my perspective, as a negation of anything except > ignore-ance. > > It is similar to saying this: > > " all perceptions are transitory. > > awareness understands the extent of the transitory nature of perception. > > there is no time for an observer to separate from the observed. > > with no time involved, one cannot have anything as existing or as not > existing. > > anything perceived as happening requires a kind of ignore-ance. > > one must ignore the extent of the transitoriness of phenomena in order to > have any experience. " > > so, saying, " nothing happened, " or " nothing is, " is, at least for me, a > kind of short-hand way of saying the above. > > thus " being is " or " all is " is the affirmative side of " nothing ever > happened. " > > and one can participate in the daily common-sense consensus of an existing > world with no problem. > > one is aware of the trance involved. > > the trance involves a suspension of being fully aware. > > yet, there is an amazement in the participation. > > the world of things, qualities, people, language - it's a remarkable " act " > of awareness. > > it's the creativity of " as if " -- as if something could be located, as if > something could have a quality, as if people could exist and interact. > > amazing in that no time is actually involved, and yet time " appears, " > beings " appear " - which is the same thing, actually. > > I once read some teachings about this by Dogen; he called it " being-time. " > > - Dan - It seems like it shouldn't be possible. " Moving without moving? " As though 'physical life' itself were a trance, a certain degree of unawareness. P.S. if Dogen is a dog, is Dzogchen a dzog?;-). -tim- Funny I dont see it the way both of you do. I dont think there is need of any degree of unawareness to the seeing of the world. In fact sounds like an absurdity to say that I must be unaware in order to live. I think you are " stamping " some prerrogatives, some thought-out qualities in order to some " objectivated awareness " be. I dont think that perception needs darkness or any degree of shadowing in awareness. The ultimate is always unconditionaly without qualities. The perception of qualities, time, space, or any event of any kind... of illusion as such, thoughts, imagination, the false, does not fragment the wholeness of what is. Actualy there is no life without perception of at least some kind, so this would lead one to say that there is no realization of the ultimate, of awareness, while there is life. I dont think this is a valid statement or fact. -geo- " Funny I dont see it the way both of you do. I dont think there is need of any degree of unawareness to the seeing of the world. " -geo- The unawareness (if any) is in the seeing of it as separate from oneself. -tim- Yes agree. Life can be lived without fragmentation. -geo- > In fact sounds like an > absurdity to say that I must be unaware in order to live. -geo- Nobody ever said that. -tim " As though 'physical life' itself were a trance, a certain degree of unawareness. " This statement of yours means what then? Are you perhaps suggesting to live a non-physical life in order to awareness to be? I agree with something you said in another post: that unawareness is a kind of focusing that the brain (thought) does. So it seems to me that the problem is not perceptions but perceiving as a fucusing act with the aparent exclusion of parts of the total field. The perception of a physical chair in the world, in the adimensional spaceless timeless field is a total, whole. Isolating the chair from totality, living in parts, is what fragmentation is, is it not? -geo- avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090526-0, 26/05/2009 Tested on: 3/8/2009 15:51:26 avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090526-0, 26/05/2009 Tested on: 3/8/2009 16:05:36 avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090526-0, 26/05/2009 Tested on: 3/8/2009 16:22:07 avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090526-0, 26/05/2009 Tested on: 3/8/2009 16:41:57 avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > Nobody ever said that. > -tim > > " As though 'physical life' itself were a trance, a certain degree of > unawareness. " > This statement of yours means what then? Are you perhaps suggesting to live > a non-physical life in order to awareness to be? > -geo- I'm not interested in a debate about past words. Or maybe I am, depending on who " I " is referring to ;-). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > The observation that " nothing ever happened, " said from awareness, is not intended, at least from my perspective, as a negation of anything except ignore-ance. > > > > It is similar to saying this: > > > > " all perceptions are transitory. > > > > awareness understands the extent of the transitory nature of perception. > > > > there is no time for an observer to separate from the observed. > > > > with no time involved, one cannot have anything as existing or as not existing. > > > > anything perceived as happening requires a kind of ignore-ance. > > > > one must ignore the extent of the transitoriness of phenomena in order to have any experience. " > > > > so, saying, " nothing happened, " or " nothing is, " is, at least for me, a kind of short-hand way of saying the above. > > > > thus " being is " or " all is " is the affirmative side of " nothing ever happened. " > > > > and one can participate in the daily common-sense consensus of an existing world with no problem. > > > > one is aware of the trance involved. > > > > the trance involves a suspension of being fully aware. > > > > yet, there is an amazement in the participation. > > > > the world of things, qualities, people, language - it's a remarkable " act " of awareness. > > > > it's the creativity of " as if " -- as if something could be located, as if something could have a quality, as if people could exist and interact. > > > > amazing in that no time is actually involved, and yet time " appears, " > > beings " appear " - which is the same thing, actually. > > > > I once read some teachings about this by Dogen; he called it " being-time. " > > > > - Dan - > > It seems like it shouldn't be possible. > > " Moving without moving? " Yes. Or happening without anything happening. What makes something impossible? Mind, rules, expectations. And as what is, is not bound to any mind, involves no conditions or preconditions, and no time ... ?? > As though 'physical life' itself were a trance, a certain degree of unawareness. True. And if the trance is broken (e.g., identification is not), physical life is not what it was thought to be (in the trance). As any verbal explanation is for a brain processing information in a physical organism, there can be no verbal explanation of what physical life actually is (when there is not the trance of identification as a center in/as a mind/body/brain/organism surviving and living). > P.S. if Dogen is a dog, is Dzogchen a dzog?;-). LOL. Great question. And how much dzog would a dzogchen chen if a dzogchen could chen dzog? -- Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > Tim G. > Nisargadatta > Monday, August 03, 2009 3:20 PM > Re: And then what.......? > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > The observation that " nothing ever happened, " said from awareness, is not > > intended, at least from my perspective, as a negation of anything except > > ignore-ance. > > > > It is similar to saying this: > > > > " all perceptions are transitory. > > > > awareness understands the extent of the transitory nature of perception. > > > > there is no time for an observer to separate from the observed. > > > > with no time involved, one cannot have anything as existing or as not > > existing. > > > > anything perceived as happening requires a kind of ignore-ance. > > > > one must ignore the extent of the transitoriness of phenomena in order to > > have any experience. " > > > > so, saying, " nothing happened, " or " nothing is, " is, at least for me, a > > kind of short-hand way of saying the above. > > > > thus " being is " or " all is " is the affirmative side of " nothing ever > > happened. " > > > > and one can participate in the daily common-sense consensus of an existing > > world with no problem. > > > > one is aware of the trance involved. > > > > the trance involves a suspension of being fully aware. > > > > yet, there is an amazement in the participation. > > > > the world of things, qualities, people, language - it's a remarkable " act " > > of awareness. > > > > it's the creativity of " as if " -- as if something could be located, as if > > something could have a quality, as if people could exist and interact. > > > > amazing in that no time is actually involved, and yet time " appears, " > > beings " appear " - which is the same thing, actually. > > > > I once read some teachings about this by Dogen; he called it " being-time. " > > > > - Dan - > > It seems like it shouldn't be possible. > > " Moving without moving? " > > As though 'physical life' itself were a trance, a certain degree of > unawareness. > > P.S. if Dogen is a dog, is Dzogchen a dzog?;-). > -tim- > > Funny I dont see it the way both of you do. I dont think there is need of > any degree of unawareness to the seeing of the world. In fact sounds like an > absurdity to say that I must be unaware in order to live. I think you are > " stamping " some prerrogatives, some thought-out qualities in order to some > " objectivated awareness " be. I dont think that perception needs darkness or > any degree of shadowing in awareness. The ultimate is always unconditionaly > without qualities. The perception of qualities, time, space, or any event of > any kind... of illusion as such, thoughts, imagination, the false, does not > fragment the wholeness of what is. > -geo- There is no impedence to awareness. Where was it said that there must be darkness or shadowing? Where was it said you must be unaware to see the world? How is it that a " reader " states his own concepts about darkness, shadowing, and how you must be unaware - as if someone else presented those concepts as something right, then contests those concepts as wrong -- those very concepts that he projected into the situation through his " interpretation " ? There is a clue here about what a " reader " is, and what a " reader " does ... Can the clue be read? If so, where is the reader? - Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > Actualy there is no life without perception of at least some kind, so this > would lead one to say that there is no realization of the ultimate, of > awareness, while there is life. I dont think this is a valid statement or > fact. > -geo- There is no such thing as realization of the ultimate. Who would be realizing it? There just is what is. Where and how would realizing it come in, without bringing in time? I do think that the common-sense interpretation of what it means to physically be alive, based on language, a memory-chain and survival instincts, distorts the understanding of what life is (what the daily living, breathing, perceiving is). Simply being aware involves no distortion, no belief, and no reliance on conceptuality. -- Dan -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > Actualy there is no life without perception of at least some kind, so this > > would lead one to say that there is no realization of the ultimate, of > > awareness, while there is life. I dont think this is a valid statement or > > fact. > > -geo- > > > There is no such thing as realization of the ultimate. > > Who would be realizing it? > > There just is what is. > > Where and how would realizing it come in, without bringing in time? > > I do think that the common-sense interpretation of what it means to > physically be alive, based on language, a memory-chain and survival > instincts, distorts the understanding of what life is (what the > daily living, breathing, perceiving is). The 'survival instincts' are the survival instincts of thought, quite frankly. The " struggle to survive " , apparently seen everywhere, is the struggle of the thought-entity to survive. Beyond this, no struggle is seen anywhere. All appears at peace, as it is, which is as it 'should be'. > Simply being aware involves no distortion, no belief, and no > reliance on conceptuality. Yup. Perhaps no fun to talk about on a mailing list, or just doesn't add enough support for the imaginary entity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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