Guest guest Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 There is a movement called 'change', called 'awareness', called 'freedom' that is ever new ever surprising, ever in motion, yet ever still. Ever free of any static " I " , beyond time, yet not excluding time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 - Tim G. Nisargadatta Tuesday, August 11, 2009 11:09 PM Movement There is a movement called 'change', called 'awareness', called 'freedom' that is ever new ever surprising, ever in motion, yet ever still. Ever free of any static " I " , beyond time, yet not excluding time. -tim- Awareness is a change??? Is there something that never changes with time? A qualitiless presence that never changes and everyone can " know " it? Is there seeing always only through those (these) eyes? -geo- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > Tim G. > Nisargadatta > Tuesday, August 11, 2009 11:09 PM > Movement > > > There is a movement > > called 'change', called 'awareness', > > called 'freedom' > > that is ever new > > ever surprising, > > ever in motion, > > yet ever still. > > Ever free of any static " I " , > > beyond time, yet not excluding time. > -tim- > > Awareness is a change??? > Is there something that never changes with time? A qualitiless presence that > never changes and everyone can " know " it? > Is there seeing always only through those (these) eyes? > -geo- Awareness only appears to change. It only changes in comparison. With no comparison, it isn't changing. Therefore, it is not remaining the same. Constancy is nondurational awareness. - D - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 - dan330033 Nisargadatta Wednesday, August 12, 2009 1:08 PM Re: Movement Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > Tim G. > Nisargadatta > Tuesday, August 11, 2009 11:09 PM > Movement > > > There is a movement > > called 'change', called 'awareness', > > called 'freedom' > > that is ever new > > ever surprising, > > ever in motion, > > yet ever still. > > Ever free of any static " I " , > > beyond time, yet not excluding time. > -tim- > > Awareness is a change??? > Is there something that never changes with time? A qualitiless presence > that > never changes and everyone can " know " it? > Is there seeing always only through those (these) eyes? > -geo- Awareness only appears to change. It only changes in comparison. With no comparison, it isn't changing. Therefore, it is not remaining the same. Constancy is nondurational awareness. - D - A reflection of this in a human being is something similar - I said similar - to the sense of first person in grammar. Its " direction " is changeless. -geo- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > Tim G. > > Nisargadatta > > Tuesday, August 11, 2009 11:09 PM > > Movement > > > > > > There is a movement > > > > called 'change', called 'awareness', > > > > called 'freedom' > > > > that is ever new > > > > ever surprising, > > > > ever in motion, > > > > yet ever still. > > > > Ever free of any static " I " , > > > > beyond time, yet not excluding time. > > -tim- > > > > Awareness is a change??? > > Is there something that never changes with time? A qualitiless presence that > > never changes and everyone can " know " it? > > Is there seeing always only through those (these) eyes? > > -geo- > > Awareness only appears to change. > > It only changes in comparison. > > With no comparison, it isn't changing. > > Therefore, it is not remaining the same. > > > Constancy is nondurational awareness. > > - D - > Consciousness is its content. No content -> no consciousness. What we experience as consciousness is a constant flux of changing contents. Contents which do not change won't get conscious. Werner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 - Werner Woehr Nisargadatta Wednesday, August 12, 2009 1:24 PM Re: Movement Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > Tim G. > > Nisargadatta > > Tuesday, August 11, 2009 11:09 PM > > Movement > > > > > > There is a movement > > > > called 'change', called 'awareness', > > > > called 'freedom' > > > > that is ever new > > > > ever surprising, > > > > ever in motion, > > > > yet ever still. > > > > Ever free of any static " I " , > > > > beyond time, yet not excluding time. > > -tim- > > > > Awareness is a change??? > > Is there something that never changes with time? A qualitiless presence > > that > > never changes and everyone can " know " it? > > Is there seeing always only through those (these) eyes? > > -geo- > > Awareness only appears to change. > > It only changes in comparison. > > With no comparison, it isn't changing. > > Therefore, it is not remaining the same. > > > Constancy is nondurational awareness. > > - D - > Consciousness is its content. No content -> no consciousness. What we experience as consciousness is a constant flux of changing contents. Contents which do not change won't get conscious. Werner The problem I see in your interpretation is the nature of that which experiences changes in consciousness. What is that? -geo- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > dan330033 > Nisargadatta > Wednesday, August 12, 2009 1:08 PM > Re: Movement > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > Tim G. > > Nisargadatta > > Tuesday, August 11, 2009 11:09 PM > > Movement > > > > > > There is a movement > > > > called 'change', called 'awareness', > > > > called 'freedom' > > > > that is ever new > > > > ever surprising, > > > > ever in motion, > > > > yet ever still. > > > > Ever free of any static " I " , > > > > beyond time, yet not excluding time. > > -tim- > > > > Awareness is a change??? > > Is there something that never changes with time? A qualitiless presence > > that > > never changes and everyone can " know " it? > > Is there seeing always only through those (these) eyes? > > -geo- > > Awareness only appears to change. > > It only changes in comparison. > > With no comparison, it isn't changing. > > Therefore, it is not remaining the same. > > Constancy is nondurational awareness. > > - D - > > A reflection of this in a human being is something similar - I said > similar - to the sense of first person in grammar. Its " direction " is > changeless. > -geo- I see what you mean. Yes. However, its location is not situated. And it is not viewing objects across a distance. It is not in a relationship. It does not do anything. It is. Aware-ing. And that is what appears as change. Of everything. - D - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > Tim G. > > > Nisargadatta > > > Tuesday, August 11, 2009 11:09 PM > > > Movement > > > > > > > > > There is a movement > > > > > > called 'change', called 'awareness', > > > > > > called 'freedom' > > > > > > that is ever new > > > > > > ever surprising, > > > > > > ever in motion, > > > > > > yet ever still. > > > > > > Ever free of any static " I " , > > > > > > beyond time, yet not excluding time. > > > -tim- > > > > > > Awareness is a change??? > > > Is there something that never changes with time? A qualitiless presence that > > > never changes and everyone can " know " it? > > > Is there seeing always only through those (these) eyes? > > > -geo- > > > > Awareness only appears to change. > > > > It only changes in comparison. > > > > With no comparison, it isn't changing. > > > > Therefore, it is not remaining the same. > > > > > > Constancy is nondurational awareness. > > > > - D - > > > > > Consciousness is its content. No content -> no consciousness. > > What we experience as consciousness is a constant flux of changing contents. > > Contents which do not change won't get conscious. > > Werner I understand, Werner. Yet, I wonder: why do you refer to 'contents'? Contents of what? If consciousness is its contents, then consciousness is not a container. So, events aren't contents. -- D -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 - dan330033 Nisargadatta Wednesday, August 12, 2009 1:40 PM Re: Movement Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > dan330033 > Nisargadatta > Wednesday, August 12, 2009 1:08 PM > Re: Movement > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > Tim G. > > Nisargadatta > > Tuesday, August 11, 2009 11:09 PM > > Movement > > > > > > There is a movement > > > > called 'change', called 'awareness', > > > > called 'freedom' > > > > that is ever new > > > > ever surprising, > > > > ever in motion, > > > > yet ever still. > > > > Ever free of any static " I " , > > > > beyond time, yet not excluding time. > > -tim- > > > > Awareness is a change??? > > Is there something that never changes with time? A qualitiless presence > > that > > never changes and everyone can " know " it? > > Is there seeing always only through those (these) eyes? > > -geo- > > Awareness only appears to change. > > It only changes in comparison. > > With no comparison, it isn't changing. > > Therefore, it is not remaining the same. > > Constancy is nondurational awareness. > > - D - > > A reflection of this in a human being is something similar - I said > similar - to the sense of first person in grammar. Its " direction " is > changeless. > -geo- I see what you mean. Yes. However, its location is not situated. And it is not viewing objects across a distance. It is not in a relationship. It does not do anything. It is. Aware-ing. And that is what appears as change. Of everything. - D - It is so obvious, so universal, so impersonaly first hand..that I always wonder why so many miss it. The closest. -geo- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 - Werner Woehr Nisargadatta Wednesday, August 12, 2009 1:42 PM Re: Movement Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > Werner Woehr > Nisargadatta > Wednesday, August 12, 2009 1:24 PM > Re: Movement > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > Tim G. > > > Nisargadatta > > > Tuesday, August 11, 2009 11:09 PM > > > Movement > > > > > > > > > There is a movement > > > > > > called 'change', called 'awareness', > > > > > > called 'freedom' > > > > > > that is ever new > > > > > > ever surprising, > > > > > > ever in motion, > > > > > > yet ever still. > > > > > > Ever free of any static " I " , > > > > > > beyond time, yet not excluding time. > > > -tim- > > > > > > Awareness is a change??? > > > Is there something that never changes with time? A qualitiless > > > presence > > > that > > > never changes and everyone can " know " it? > > > Is there seeing always only through those (these) eyes? > > > -geo- > > > > Awareness only appears to change. > > > > It only changes in comparison. > > > > With no comparison, it isn't changing. > > > > Therefore, it is not remaining the same. > > > > > > Constancy is nondurational awareness. > > > > - D - > > > > Consciousness is its content. No content -> no consciousness. > > What we experience as consciousness is a constant flux of changing > contents. > > Contents which do not change won't get conscious. > > Werner > > The problem I see in your interpretation is the nature of that which > experiences changes in consciousness. What is that? > -geo- > Geo, Til today no one knows what makes consciousness experiencable. There are philosophical theroies about it and also quantum mehchanic has a theory or a model, but those models are all guesswork. Werner Who or what is speaking? -geo- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > Tim G. > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > Tuesday, August 11, 2009 11:09 PM > > > > Movement > > > > > > > > > > > > There is a movement > > > > > > > > called 'change', called 'awareness', > > > > > > > > called 'freedom' > > > > > > > > that is ever new > > > > > > > > ever surprising, > > > > > > > > ever in motion, > > > > > > > > yet ever still. > > > > > > > > Ever free of any static " I " , > > > > > > > > beyond time, yet not excluding time. > > > > -tim- > > > > > > > > Awareness is a change??? > > > > Is there something that never changes with time? A qualitiless presence that > > > > never changes and everyone can " know " it? > > > > Is there seeing always only through those (these) eyes? > > > > -geo- > > > > > > Awareness only appears to change. > > > > > > It only changes in comparison. > > > > > > With no comparison, it isn't changing. > > > > > > Therefore, it is not remaining the same. > > > > > > > > > Constancy is nondurational awareness. > > > > > > - D - > > > > > > > > > Consciousness is its content. No content -> no consciousness. > > > > What we experience as consciousness is a constant flux of changing contents. > > > > Contents which do not change won't get conscious. > > > > Werner > > I understand, Werner. > > Yet, I wonder: why do you refer to 'contents'? > > Contents of what? Very simple, Dan, Sensory input is processed in the brain by associating and comparing it with previous or old data stroed in memory. The result is made conscious by activating a network of neurons. The firing of those neurons we experienc as consciousness. Btw, that is why consciousness is total subjective. Nowadays neurology does know which parts of the brain are responisble for sound, sensations, visions, emotions etc. > > If consciousness is its contents, then xiconsciousness is not a container. Yes, consciousness is no conatainer and therefore consciousness as such does not exists. > > So, events aren't contents. Not quite, Alan, only events which have passed the assoiating an comparing processes of the brain become contents. Werner > > -- D -- > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > dan330033 > Nisargadatta > Wednesday, August 12, 2009 1:40 PM > Re: Movement > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > dan330033 > > Nisargadatta > > Wednesday, August 12, 2009 1:08 PM > > Re: Movement > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > Tim G. > > > Nisargadatta > > > Tuesday, August 11, 2009 11:09 PM > > > Movement > > > > > > > > > There is a movement > > > > > > called 'change', called 'awareness', > > > > > > called 'freedom' > > > > > > that is ever new > > > > > > ever surprising, > > > > > > ever in motion, > > > > > > yet ever still. > > > > > > Ever free of any static " I " , > > > > > > beyond time, yet not excluding time. > > > -tim- > > > > > > Awareness is a change??? > > > Is there something that never changes with time? A qualitiless presence > > > that > > > never changes and everyone can " know " it? > > > Is there seeing always only through those (these) eyes? > > > -geo- > > > > Awareness only appears to change. > > > > It only changes in comparison. > > > > With no comparison, it isn't changing. > > > > Therefore, it is not remaining the same. > > > > Constancy is nondurational awareness. > > > > - D - > > > > A reflection of this in a human being is something similar - I said > > similar - to the sense of first person in grammar. Its " direction " is > > changeless. > > -geo- > > I see what you mean. > > Yes. > > However, its location is not situated. > > And it is not viewing objects across a distance. > > It is not in a relationship. > > It does not do anything. > > It is. > > Aware-ing. > > And that is what appears as change. > > Of everything. > > - D - > It is so obvious, so universal, so impersonaly first hand..that I always > wonder why so many miss it. The closest. > -geo- People miss it because of personal attachments. Including the personality, which is an attachment. Including the life story. Including the sense of existing and becoming. And underlying all that: fear. Fear resulting in the intent to attach, resulting in greed, disappointment, anger, frustration, envy, sense of lack, etc. The impersonal is - but the avoidance of it also occurs impersonally. Ironic - and contradictory. Thus, the impersonal awareness involves the falling away of self-contradiction, of avoidance, of clinging - it involves death, in other words. Impersonally aware-ing involves death, involves understanding fear from the inside out. The contradictory movement of attaching to fear while pushing it away (and the related movement of attaching to desire while pushing it away) is understood. Only through understanding does it cease. And understanding involves being it. The understanding is from the inside out, so to speak, not from outside in, not analysis from an outside position. -- D -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > Tim G. > > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > > Tuesday, August 11, 2009 11:09 PM > > > > > Movement > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is a movement > > > > > > > > > > called 'change', called 'awareness', > > > > > > > > > > called 'freedom' > > > > > > > > > > that is ever new > > > > > > > > > > ever surprising, > > > > > > > > > > ever in motion, > > > > > > > > > > yet ever still. > > > > > > > > > > Ever free of any static " I " , > > > > > > > > > > beyond time, yet not excluding time. > > > > > -tim- > > > > > > > > > > Awareness is a change??? > > > > > Is there something that never changes with time? A qualitiless presence that > > > > > never changes and everyone can " know " it? > > > > > Is there seeing always only through those (these) eyes? > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > Awareness only appears to change. > > > > > > > > It only changes in comparison. > > > > > > > > With no comparison, it isn't changing. > > > > > > > > Therefore, it is not remaining the same. > > > > > > > > > > > > Constancy is nondurational awareness. > > > > > > > > - D - > > > > > > > > > > > > > Consciousness is its content. No content -> no consciousness. > > > > > > What we experience as consciousness is a constant flux of changing contents. > > > > > > Contents which do not change won't get conscious. > > > > > > Werner > > > > I understand, Werner. > > > > Yet, I wonder: why do you refer to 'contents'? > > > > Contents of what? > > > Very simple, Dan, > > Sensory input is processed in the brain by associating and comparing it with previous or old data stroed in memory. The result is made conscious by activating a network of neurons. The firing of those neurons we experienc as consciousness. Btw, that is why consciousness is total subjective. > > Nowadays neurology does know which parts of the brain are responisble for sound, sensations, visions, emotions etc. > > > > > > If consciousness is its contents, then xiconsciousness is not a container. > > > Yes, consciousness is no conatainer and therefore consciousness as such does not exists. > > > > > > So, events aren't contents. > > > Not quite, Alan, only events which have passed the assoiating an comparing processes of the brain become contents. > > Werner How did I change from Dan to Alan? Is that a glitch in consciousness? Your explanation doesn't hold water, Werner. Neurons are constructions of consciousness, so how can you use them to explain consciousness, unless you bring in " awareness? " If neurons are producing consciousness, then what is aware of neurons, and what is constructing the apprehended form " neuron " ? - D - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > Tim G. > > > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > > > Tuesday, August 11, 2009 11:09 PM > > > > > > Movement > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is a movement > > > > > > > > > > > > called 'change', called 'awareness', > > > > > > > > > > > > called 'freedom' > > > > > > > > > > > > that is ever new > > > > > > > > > > > > ever surprising, > > > > > > > > > > > > ever in motion, > > > > > > > > > > > > yet ever still. > > > > > > > > > > > > Ever free of any static " I " , > > > > > > > > > > > > beyond time, yet not excluding time. > > > > > > -tim- > > > > > > > > > > > > Awareness is a change??? > > > > > > Is there something that never changes with time? A qualitiless presence that > > > > > > never changes and everyone can " know " it? > > > > > > Is there seeing always only through those (these) eyes? > > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > Awareness only appears to change. > > > > > > > > > > It only changes in comparison. > > > > > > > > > > With no comparison, it isn't changing. > > > > > > > > > > Therefore, it is not remaining the same. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Constancy is nondurational awareness. > > > > > > > > > > - D - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Consciousness is its content. No content -> no consciousness. > > > > > > > > What we experience as consciousness is a constant flux of changing contents. > > > > > > > > Contents which do not change won't get conscious. > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > I understand, Werner. > > > > > > Yet, I wonder: why do you refer to 'contents'? > > > > > > Contents of what? > > > > > > Very simple, Dan, > > > > Sensory input is processed in the brain by associating and comparing it with previous or old data stroed in memory. The result is made conscious by activating a network of neurons. The firing of those neurons we experienc as consciousness. Btw, that is why consciousness is total subjective. > > > > Nowadays neurology does know which parts of the brain are responisble for sound, sensations, visions, emotions etc. > > > > > > > > > > If consciousness is its contents, then xiconsciousness is not a container. > > > > > > Yes, consciousness is no conatainer and therefore consciousness as such does not exists. > > > > > > > > > > So, events aren't contents. > > > > > > Not quite, Alan, only events which have passed the assoiating an comparing processes of the brain become contents. > > > > Werner > > How did I change from Dan to Alan? > > Is that a glitch in consciousness? Sorry Dan, My thoughts were somewhere else when replying to you. > > Your explanation doesn't hold water, Werner. y > I didn't expect that you were able to let go your lovely 'awareness' straw, Dan. Nevertheless I cannot discuss 'awareness' with you because in German that word does not exist. We only have the word consciousness but not awareness. One day if you are ready no longer to ride that 'awareness' horse we can go on dicsussing consciousness. Werner > Neurons are constructions of consciousness, so how can you use them to explain consciousness, unless you bring in " awareness? " > > If neurons are producing consciousness, then what is aware of neurons, and what is constructing the apprehended form " neuron " ? > > - D - > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > Werner Woehr > Nisargadatta > Wednesday, August 12, 2009 1:42 PM > Re: Movement > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > Werner Woehr > > Nisargadatta > > Wednesday, August 12, 2009 1:24 PM > > Re: Movement > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > Tim G. > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > Tuesday, August 11, 2009 11:09 PM > > > > Movement > > > > > > > > > > > > There is a movement > > > > > > > > called 'change', called 'awareness', > > > > > > > > called 'freedom' > > > > > > > > that is ever new > > > > > > > > ever surprising, > > > > > > > > ever in motion, > > > > > > > > yet ever still. > > > > > > > > Ever free of any static " I " , > > > > > > > > beyond time, yet not excluding time. > > > > -tim- > > > > > > > > Awareness is a change??? > > > > Is there something that never changes with time? A qualitiless > > > > presence > > > > that > > > > never changes and everyone can " know " it? > > > > Is there seeing always only through those (these) eyes? > > > > -geo- > > > > > > Awareness only appears to change. > > > > > > It only changes in comparison. > > > > > > With no comparison, it isn't changing. > > > > > > Therefore, it is not remaining the same. > > > > > > > > > Constancy is nondurational awareness. > > > > > > - D - > > > > > > > Consciousness is its content. No content -> no consciousness. > > > > What we experience as consciousness is a constant flux of changing > > contents. > > > > Contents which do not change won't get conscious. > > > > Werner > > > > The problem I see in your interpretation is the nature of that which > > experiences changes in consciousness. What is that? > > -geo- > > > > Geo, > > Til today no one knows what makes consciousness experiencable. There are > philosophical theroies about it and also quantum mehchanic has a theory or a > model, but those models are all guesswork. > > Werner > > Who or what is speaking? > -geo- > Don't sell me that shit, Geo. Its rediculous to see a nestling in his pampers playing old wise man asking wise questions. Werner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 - Werner Woehr Nisargadatta Wednesday, August 12, 2009 3:55 PM Re: Movement Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > Werner Woehr > Nisargadatta > Wednesday, August 12, 2009 1:42 PM > Re: Movement > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > Werner Woehr > > Nisargadatta > > Wednesday, August 12, 2009 1:24 PM > > Re: Movement > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > Tim G. > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > Tuesday, August 11, 2009 11:09 PM > > > > Movement > > > > > > > > > > > > There is a movement > > > > > > > > called 'change', called 'awareness', > > > > > > > > called 'freedom' > > > > > > > > that is ever new > > > > > > > > ever surprising, > > > > > > > > ever in motion, > > > > > > > > yet ever still. > > > > > > > > Ever free of any static " I " , > > > > > > > > beyond time, yet not excluding time. > > > > -tim- > > > > > > > > Awareness is a change??? > > > > Is there something that never changes with time? A qualitiless > > > > presence > > > > that > > > > never changes and everyone can " know " it? > > > > Is there seeing always only through those (these) eyes? > > > > -geo- > > > > > > Awareness only appears to change. > > > > > > It only changes in comparison. > > > > > > With no comparison, it isn't changing. > > > > > > Therefore, it is not remaining the same. > > > > > > > > > Constancy is nondurational awareness. > > > > > > - D - > > > > > > > Consciousness is its content. No content -> no consciousness. > > > > What we experience as consciousness is a constant flux of changing > > contents. > > > > Contents which do not change won't get conscious. > > > > Werner > > > > The problem I see in your interpretation is the nature of that which > > experiences changes in consciousness. What is that? > > -geo- > > > > Geo, > > Til today no one knows what makes consciousness experiencable. There are > philosophical theroies about it and also quantum mehchanic has a theory or > a > model, but those models are all guesswork. > > Werner > > Who or what is speaking? > -geo- > Don't sell me that shit, Geo. Its rediculous to see a nestling in his pampers playing old wise man asking wise questions. Werner Oh OK werner. (I love the perfume of new pampers). I said NEW!! -geo- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > dan330033 > > Nisargadatta > > Wednesday, August 12, 2009 1:40 PM > > Re: Movement > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > dan330033 > > > Nisargadatta > > > Wednesday, August 12, 2009 1:08 PM > > > Re: Movement > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > Tim G. > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > Tuesday, August 11, 2009 11:09 PM > > > > Movement > > > > > > > > > > > > There is a movement > > > > > > > > called 'change', called 'awareness', > > > > > > > > called 'freedom' > > > > > > > > that is ever new > > > > > > > > ever surprising, > > > > > > > > ever in motion, > > > > > > > > yet ever still. > > > > > > > > Ever free of any static " I " , > > > > > > > > beyond time, yet not excluding time. > > > > -tim- > > > > > > > > Awareness is a change??? > > > > Is there something that never changes with time? A qualitiless presence > > > > that > > > > never changes and everyone can " know " it? > > > > Is there seeing always only through those (these) eyes? > > > > -geo- > > > > > > Awareness only appears to change. > > > > > > It only changes in comparison. > > > > > > With no comparison, it isn't changing. > > > > > > Therefore, it is not remaining the same. > > > > > > Constancy is nondurational awareness. > > > > > > - D - > > > > > > A reflection of this in a human being is something similar - I said > > > similar - to the sense of first person in grammar. Its " direction " is > > > changeless. > > > -geo- > > > > I see what you mean. > > > > Yes. > > > > However, its location is not situated. > > > > And it is not viewing objects across a distance. > > > > It is not in a relationship. > > > > It does not do anything. > > > > It is. > > > > Aware-ing. > > > > And that is what appears as change. > > > > Of everything. > > > > - D - > > It is so obvious, so universal, so impersonaly first hand..that I always > > wonder why so many miss it. The closest. > > -geo- > > People miss it because of personal attachments. > > Including the personality, which is an attachment. > > Including the life story. > > Including the sense of existing and becoming. > > And underlying all that: fear. > > Fear resulting in the intent to attach, resulting in greed, disappointment, anger, frustration, envy, sense of lack, etc. > > The impersonal is - but the avoidance of it also occurs impersonally. > > Ironic - and contradictory. > > Thus, the impersonal awareness involves the falling away of self-contradiction, of avoidance, of clinging - it involves death, in other words. > > Impersonally aware-ing involves death, involves understanding fear from the inside out. > > The contradictory movement of attaching to fear while pushing it away (and the related movement of attaching to desire while pushing it away) is understood. > > Only through understanding does it cease. > > And understanding involves being it. > > The understanding is from the inside out, so to speak, not from outside in, not analysis from an outside position. > > -- D -- > Yes. The personal identity steps into its own flowing......it stands up......looks around.....and then slips into the current once again. It is at the same time the flowing and the one watching. But now......it keeps its face above to water........eyes open............smiling. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 > > > > Til today no one knows what makes consciousness experiencable. There are > > philosophical theroies about it and also quantum mehchanic has a theory or a > > model, but those models are all guesswork. > > > > Werner > That which is named " consciousness " can see any'thing' but itself......for one very good reason. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > Werner Woehr > Nisargadatta > Wednesday, August 12, 2009 3:55 PM > Re: Movement > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > Werner Woehr > > Nisargadatta > > Wednesday, August 12, 2009 1:42 PM > > Re: Movement > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > Werner Woehr > > > Nisargadatta > > > Wednesday, August 12, 2009 1:24 PM > > > Re: Movement > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > Tim G. > > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > > Tuesday, August 11, 2009 11:09 PM > > > > > Movement > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is a movement > > > > > > > > > > called 'change', called 'awareness', > > > > > > > > > > called 'freedom' > > > > > > > > > > that is ever new > > > > > > > > > > ever surprising, > > > > > > > > > > ever in motion, > > > > > > > > > > yet ever still. > > > > > > > > > > Ever free of any static " I " , > > > > > > > > > > beyond time, yet not excluding time. > > > > > -tim- > > > > > > > > > > Awareness is a change??? > > > > > Is there something that never changes with time? A qualitiless > > > > > presence > > > > > that > > > > > never changes and everyone can " know " it? > > > > > Is there seeing always only through those (these) eyes? > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > Awareness only appears to change. > > > > > > > > It only changes in comparison. > > > > > > > > With no comparison, it isn't changing. > > > > > > > > Therefore, it is not remaining the same. > > > > > > > > > > > > Constancy is nondurational awareness. > > > > > > > > - D - > > > > > > > > > > Consciousness is its content. No content -> no consciousness. > > > > > > What we experience as consciousness is a constant flux of changing > > > contents. > > > > > > Contents which do not change won't get conscious. > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > The problem I see in your interpretation is the nature of that which > > > experiences changes in consciousness. What is that? > > > -geo- > > > > > > > Geo, > > > > Til today no one knows what makes consciousness experiencable. There are > > philosophical theroies about it and also quantum mehchanic has a theory or > > a > > model, but those models are all guesswork. > > > > Werner > > > > Who or what is speaking? > > -geo- > > > > Don't sell me that shit, Geo. Its rediculous to see a nestling in his > pampers playing old wise man asking wise questions. > > Werner > > Oh OK werner. (I love the perfume of new pampers). I said NEW!! > -geo- > Pleased to see your humor, Geo. It is a great gift ! Werner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 - toombaru2006 Nisargadatta Wednesday, August 12, 2009 4:16 PM Re: Movement > > > > Til today no one knows what makes consciousness experiencable. There are > > philosophical theroies about it and also quantum mehchanic has a theory > > or a > > model, but those models are all guesswork. > > > > Werner > That which is named " consciousness " can see any'thing' but itself......for one very good reason. toombaru There is only the eagles emanations. Consciousness contorts them, curbs them, but they are the same. -geo- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > > > > > > > Til today no one knows what makes consciousness experiencable. There are > > > philosophical theroies about it and also quantum mehchanic has a theory or a > > > model, but those models are all guesswork. > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > That which is named " consciousness " can see any'thing' but itself......for one very good reason. > You already have mentioned it, Toomb, but I forgot 'the very good reason' again. I am not lying or joking, I really did ! Werner > > > > > toombaru > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 - > > > Who or what is speaking? > > > -geo- > > > > > > > Don't sell me that shit, Geo. Its rediculous to see a nestling in his > > pampers playing old wise man asking wise questions. > > > > Werner > > > > Oh OK werner. (I love the perfume of new pampers). I said NEW!! > > -geo- > > > > > Pleased to see your humor, Geo. It is a great gift ! > > Werner P: Yes, for a two months old, he's danm precocious! ) > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Til today no one knows what makes consciousness experiencable. There are > > > > philosophical theroies about it and also quantum mehchanic has a theory or a > > > > model, but those models are all guesswork. > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > That which is named " consciousness " can see any'thing' but itself......for one very good reason. > > > > > You already have mentioned it, Toomb, but I forgot 'the very good reason' again. I am not lying or joking, I really did ! > > Werner > > > > > > > > LOL The current can be very powerful and very distracting. It is the Great Impersonal Magnus Machina. It is Life-Consciousness pushing its head out of the material world......gasping and grasping. And you are the best that it has ever had to offer. There is nothing beyond your awareness.....no Gods....no gurus.....nothing. It seems here that one can navigate the scintillating edge between the two worlds...(the conceptual and the natural). And that surfing the moment is (I imagine to be) the next natural step in the evolution of consciousness-sentience. Too far to one side leads to obsession with self....too far to the other side and you don't care if the rats eat your feet. There is a Baby Bear Just Right........and it is available in the moment......and that moment is now. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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