Guest guest Posted August 14, 2009 Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 What indication do you have that there is some'thing' outside of consciousness? toombaru Lets start with anything beyond consciousness. Not a ground or awareness..just plain any thing. Lets consider X rays. Before they where discoverd they where not part of human consciousness. Infra-sound is not part of the sensory inputs either, vibs above the ultra-violet neither. Only through instruments. Some animals can feel eletromagnetic waves, we can not, so those are not part either except through needles and meters. So...can you accept that any " event " that does not impress our senses may exist, but they certainly are not part of our consciousness? -geo- avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090526-0, 26/05/2009 Tested on: 13/8/2009 22:01:27 avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 14, 2009 Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > What indication do you have that there is some'thing' outside of > consciousness? > > toombaru > > Lets start with anything beyond consciousness. Not a ground or > awareness..just plain any thing. > Lets consider X rays. Before they where discoverd they where not part of > human consciousness. > Infra-sound is not part of the sensory inputs either, vibs above the > ultra-violet neither. Only through instruments. > Some animals can feel eletromagnetic waves, we can not, so those are not > part either except through needles and meters. > So...can you accept that any " event " that does not impress our senses may > exist, but they certainly are not part of our consciousness? > -geo- > > > > > > > Each sentient organism represents a billion years of evolution through natural selection and is confined to their unique perceptual input. For them....there is nothing outside of their ability to perceive it. For the conceptual mind there is nothing outside of its ability to perceive or conceive. It is confined to its own brain. Most people believe that their minister....their guru....their professor.....knows what's going on " out there " . They do not. There is point where consciousness comes to a full stop. And that point is a permanent impenetrable boundary. There may be something outside the consciousness of man....but it can never be known until the mind can convert it into a named object and in so doing confines to dream of separation. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 14, 2009 Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Each sentient organism represents a billion years of evolution through natural selection and is confined to their unique perceptual input. > > For them....there is nothing outside of their ability to perceive it. > > For the conceptual mind there is nothing outside of its ability to perceive or conceive. > > It is confined to its own brain. > > Most people believe that their minister....their guru....their professor.....knows what's going on " out there " . > > They do not. > > There is point where consciousness comes to a full stop. There is a point where " a billion years of evolution " mean nothing anymore, because recognized as a mere idea arising now. And 'here and now' finally have the reality words can never suggest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 14, 2009 Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 - toombaru2006 Nisargadatta Friday, August 14, 2009 12:09 PM Re: Outside consciousness Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > What indication do you have that there is some'thing' outside of > consciousness? > > toombaru > > Lets start with anything beyond consciousness. Not a ground or > awareness..just plain any thing. > Lets consider X rays. Before they where discoverd they where not part of > human consciousness. > Infra-sound is not part of the sensory inputs either, vibs above the > ultra-violet neither. Only through instruments. > Some animals can feel eletromagnetic waves, we can not, so those are not > part either except through needles and meters. > So...can you accept that any " event " that does not impress our senses may > exist, but they certainly are not part of our consciousness? > -geo- > > > > > > > Each sentient organism represents a billion years of evolution through natural selection and is confined to their unique perceptual input. For them....there is nothing outside of their ability to perceive it. For the conceptual mind there is nothing outside of its ability to perceive or conceive. It is confined to its own brain. Most people believe that their minister....their guru....their professor.....knows what's going on " out there " . They do not. There is point where consciousness comes to a full stop. And that point is a permanent impenetrable boundary. There may be something outside the consciousness of man....but it can never be known until the mind can convert it into a named object and in so doing confines to dream of separation. toombaru I proposed something way much simpler than all that. No..you dont want to talk about it...you are traumatized... -geo- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 14, 2009 Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > toombaru2006 > Nisargadatta > Friday, August 14, 2009 12:09 PM > Re: Outside consciousness > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > What indication do you have that there is some'thing' outside of > > consciousness? > > > > toombaru > > > > Lets start with anything beyond consciousness. Not a ground or > > awareness..just plain any thing. > > Lets consider X rays. Before they where discoverd they where not part of > > human consciousness. > > Infra-sound is not part of the sensory inputs either, vibs above the > > ultra-violet neither. Only through instruments. > > Some animals can feel eletromagnetic waves, we can not, so those are not > > part either except through needles and meters. > > So...can you accept that any " event " that does not impress our senses may > > exist, but they certainly are not part of our consciousness? > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Each sentient organism represents a billion years of evolution through > natural selection and is confined to their unique perceptual input. > > For them....there is nothing outside of their ability to perceive it. > > For the conceptual mind there is nothing outside of its ability to perceive > or conceive. > > It is confined to its own brain. > > Most people believe that their minister....their guru....their > professor.....knows what's going on " out there " . > > They do not. > > There is point where consciousness comes to a full stop. > > And that point is a permanent impenetrable boundary. > > There may be something outside the consciousness of man....but it can never > be known until the mind can convert it into a named object and in so doing > confines to dream of separation. > > toombaru > > I proposed something way much simpler than all that. No..you dont want to > talk about it...you are traumatized... > -geo- > Life is traumatized. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 14, 2009 Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 - toombaru2006 Nisargadatta Friday, August 14, 2009 2:56 PM Re: Outside consciousness Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > toombaru2006 > Nisargadatta > Friday, August 14, 2009 12:09 PM > Re: Outside consciousness > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > What indication do you have that there is some'thing' outside of > > consciousness? > > > > toombaru > > > > Lets start with anything beyond consciousness. Not a ground or > > awareness..just plain any thing. > > Lets consider X rays. Before they where discoverd they where not part of > > human consciousness. > > Infra-sound is not part of the sensory inputs either, vibs above the > > ultra-violet neither. Only through instruments. > > Some animals can feel eletromagnetic waves, we can not, so those are not > > part either except through needles and meters. > > So...can you accept that any " event " that does not impress our senses > > may > > exist, but they certainly are not part of our consciousness? > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Each sentient organism represents a billion years of evolution through > natural selection and is confined to their unique perceptual input. > > For them....there is nothing outside of their ability to perceive it. > > For the conceptual mind there is nothing outside of its ability to > perceive > or conceive. > > It is confined to its own brain. > > Most people believe that their minister....their guru....their > professor.....knows what's going on " out there " . > > They do not. > > There is point where consciousness comes to a full stop. > > And that point is a permanent impenetrable boundary. > > There may be something outside the consciousness of man....but it can > never > be known until the mind can convert it into a named object and in so doing > confines to dream of separation. > > toombaru > > I proposed something way much simpler than all that. No..you dont want to > talk about it...you are traumatized... > -geo- > Life is traumatized. toombaru How can you tell if you are it? -geo- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 14, 2009 Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > toombaru2006 > Nisargadatta > Friday, August 14, 2009 2:56 PM > Re: Outside consciousness > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > toombaru2006 > > Nisargadatta > > Friday, August 14, 2009 12:09 PM > > Re: Outside consciousness > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > What indication do you have that there is some'thing' outside of > > > consciousness? > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > Lets start with anything beyond consciousness. Not a ground or > > > awareness..just plain any thing. > > > Lets consider X rays. Before they where discoverd they where not part of > > > human consciousness. > > > Infra-sound is not part of the sensory inputs either, vibs above the > > > ultra-violet neither. Only through instruments. > > > Some animals can feel eletromagnetic waves, we can not, so those are not > > > part either except through needles and meters. > > > So...can you accept that any " event " that does not impress our senses > > > may > > > exist, but they certainly are not part of our consciousness? > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Each sentient organism represents a billion years of evolution through > > natural selection and is confined to their unique perceptual input. > > > > For them....there is nothing outside of their ability to perceive it. > > > > For the conceptual mind there is nothing outside of its ability to > > perceive > > or conceive. > > > > It is confined to its own brain. > > > > Most people believe that their minister....their guru....their > > professor.....knows what's going on " out there " . > > > > They do not. > > > > There is point where consciousness comes to a full stop. > > > > And that point is a permanent impenetrable boundary. > > > > There may be something outside the consciousness of man....but it can > > never > > be known until the mind can convert it into a named object and in so doing > > confines to dream of separation. > > > > toombaru > > > > I proposed something way much simpler than all that. No..you dont want to > > talk about it...you are traumatized... > > -geo- > > > > Life is traumatized. > > toombaru > > How can you tell if you are it? > -geo- > That sense of impending doom that you were born with. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 14, 2009 Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 - toombaru2006 Nisargadatta Friday, August 14, 2009 3:02 PM Re: Outside consciousness Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > toombaru2006 > Nisargadatta > Friday, August 14, 2009 2:56 PM > Re: Outside consciousness > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > toombaru2006 > > Nisargadatta > > Friday, August 14, 2009 12:09 PM > > Re: Outside consciousness > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > What indication do you have that there is some'thing' outside of > > > consciousness? > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > Lets start with anything beyond consciousness. Not a ground or > > > awareness..just plain any thing. > > > Lets consider X rays. Before they where discoverd they where not part > > > of > > > human consciousness. > > > Infra-sound is not part of the sensory inputs either, vibs above the > > > ultra-violet neither. Only through instruments. > > > Some animals can feel eletromagnetic waves, we can not, so those are > > > not > > > part either except through needles and meters. > > > So...can you accept that any " event " that does not impress our senses > > > may > > > exist, but they certainly are not part of our consciousness? > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Each sentient organism represents a billion years of evolution through > > natural selection and is confined to their unique perceptual input. > > > > For them....there is nothing outside of their ability to perceive it. > > > > For the conceptual mind there is nothing outside of its ability to > > perceive > > or conceive. > > > > It is confined to its own brain. > > > > Most people believe that their minister....their guru....their > > professor.....knows what's going on " out there " . > > > > They do not. > > > > There is point where consciousness comes to a full stop. > > > > And that point is a permanent impenetrable boundary. > > > > There may be something outside the consciousness of man....but it can > > never > > be known until the mind can convert it into a named object and in so > > doing > > confines to dream of separation. > > > > toombaru > > > > I proposed something way much simpler than all that. No..you dont want > > to > > talk about it...you are traumatized... > > -geo- > > > > Life is traumatized. > > toombaru > > How can you tell if you are it? > -geo- > That sense of impending doom that you were born with. toombaru Is that traumatizing for you? -geo- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 14, 2009 Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > toombaru2006 > Nisargadatta > Friday, August 14, 2009 3:02 PM > Re: Outside consciousness > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > toombaru2006 > > Nisargadatta > > Friday, August 14, 2009 2:56 PM > > Re: Outside consciousness > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > toombaru2006 > > > Nisargadatta > > > Friday, August 14, 2009 12:09 PM > > > Re: Outside consciousness > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > What indication do you have that there is some'thing' outside of > > > > consciousness? > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > Lets start with anything beyond consciousness. Not a ground or > > > > awareness..just plain any thing. > > > > Lets consider X rays. Before they where discoverd they where not part > > > > of > > > > human consciousness. > > > > Infra-sound is not part of the sensory inputs either, vibs above the > > > > ultra-violet neither. Only through instruments. > > > > Some animals can feel eletromagnetic waves, we can not, so those are > > > > not > > > > part either except through needles and meters. > > > > So...can you accept that any " event " that does not impress our senses > > > > may > > > > exist, but they certainly are not part of our consciousness? > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Each sentient organism represents a billion years of evolution through > > > natural selection and is confined to their unique perceptual input. > > > > > > For them....there is nothing outside of their ability to perceive it. > > > > > > For the conceptual mind there is nothing outside of its ability to > > > perceive > > > or conceive. > > > > > > It is confined to its own brain. > > > > > > Most people believe that their minister....their guru....their > > > professor.....knows what's going on " out there " . > > > > > > They do not. > > > > > > There is point where consciousness comes to a full stop. > > > > > > And that point is a permanent impenetrable boundary. > > > > > > There may be something outside the consciousness of man....but it can > > > never > > > be known until the mind can convert it into a named object and in so > > > doing > > > confines to dream of separation. > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > I proposed something way much simpler than all that. No..you dont want > > > to > > > talk about it...you are traumatized... > > > -geo- > > > > > > > Life is traumatized. > > > > toombaru > > > > How can you tell if you are it? > > -geo- > > > > That sense of impending doom that you were born with. > > toombaru > > Is that traumatizing for you? > -geo- > Sentience is fear. There is a stance that includes and embraces that and a most astounding fearlessness steps out of the shadows. toombaru toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 14, 2009 Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > What indication do you have that there is some'thing' outside of > > consciousness? > > > > toombaru > > > > Lets start with anything beyond consciousness. Not a ground or > > awareness..just plain any thing. > > Lets consider X rays. Before they where discoverd they where not part of > > human consciousness. > > Infra-sound is not part of the sensory inputs either, vibs above the > > ultra-violet neither. Only through instruments. > > Some animals can feel eletromagnetic waves, we can not, so those are not > > part either except through needles and meters. > > So...can you accept that any " event " that does not impress our senses may > > exist, but they certainly are not part of our consciousness? > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Each sentient organism represents a billion years of evolution through natural selection and is confined to their unique perceptual input. > > For them....there is nothing outside of their ability to perceive it. > > For the conceptual mind there is nothing outside of its ability to perceive or conceive. > > It is confined to its own brain. > > Most people believe that their minister....their guru....their professor.....knows what's going on " out there " . > > They do not. > > There is point where consciousness comes to a full stop. > > And that point is a permanent impenetrable boundary. > > There may be something outside the consciousness of man....but it can never be known until the mind can convert it into a named object and in so doing confines to dream of separation. > > > > > toombaru If it were a permanent impenetrable boundary, you'd never be able to say correctly that it is a permanent impenetrable boundary. You would never be able to go beyond it, hence you wouldn't know that it was a boundary. For you, it would be all, and you would have no concept of it as " consciousness " nor as being a boundary. Therefore, by saying it is a permanent impenetrable boundary, either you are lying and know more than you are saying, or you believe you are telling the truth, and don't see the fallacy involved in the statement. - D - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 14, 2009 Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > Each sentient organism represents a billion years of evolution through natural selection and is confined to their unique perceptual input. > > > > For them....there is nothing outside of their ability to perceive it. > > > > For the conceptual mind there is nothing outside of its ability to perceive or conceive. > > > > It is confined to its own brain. > > > > Most people believe that their minister....their guru....their professor.....knows what's going on " out there " . > > > > They do not. > > > > There is point where consciousness comes to a full stop. > > There is a point where " a billion years of evolution " mean nothing anymore, because recognized as a mere idea arising now. > > And 'here and now' finally have the reality words can never suggest. In words, here and now will always sound relative to, and in comparison with, there and then. The absoluteness of the present can't be given in words. Just as the word " absolute " will always be in a contrast with " the relative. " One can suggest " one with no opposite, " " present that subsumes all we consider past and future, " or " nothing that is everything. " But these suggestions, being languaged, will never give what it is to be/know what is with no division into self/other, thing/no-thing, etc. If one's thought can't grasp it, if one's experience can't have it, if one's feelings can't feel into it ... What then? Simply what is. Present. Aware. Undivided. And what of the body's reality - forming a boundary from the world, needing to get food from outside itself to survive, needing to have a shelter from the weather to keep surviving, and so on? The body's reality is not an impediment. The body doesn't really form any kind of boundary to what is. The body wanting to get food, seeking shelter, surviving, is not forming any kind of obstacle to what is. The present being is never not present. The present awareness is never not aware. If misinterpretation occurs, the body is misunderstood as forming an actual boundary, other bodies are considered to have formed separately existing beings, and the dramas and conflicts involved in things like making sure one can continue to eat and breathe, are mistaken to mean there is a separately existing being that is doing things to ensure its continuity. So, the body is not the problem. Misinterpretation of what the body is, and is doing, is the misunderstanding. And that misunderstanding abounds in " spirituality " - where we find all kinds of beliefs that there are separately existing beings, and what these beings have to read, and do, and not do, in order to cure themselves of the misunderstanding that they have come to believe. There is no " they " to cure. They have not come to believe anything That is the misunderstanding. The " they " is the belief, the " they " is the misunderstanding. There is no separable being in existence due to a body-boundary, or due to a mind-boundary, or due to a perception-boundary (these are all basically the same). - D - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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