Guest guest Posted September 5, 2009 Report Share Posted September 5, 2009 The topost deceit of the ego is 'I am you'. Dr. Steven C. Hayes Ph.D., Clinical Psychologist Werner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2009 Report Share Posted September 5, 2009 Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > The topost deceit of the ego is 'I am you'. > > Dr. Steven C. Hayes Ph.D., Clinical Psychologist > > > Werner The only reason one would post the above, is out of fear. " Something " has taken hold, something scary. Good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2009 Report Share Posted September 5, 2009 - fewtch Nisargadatta Saturday, September 05, 2009 8:21 AM Re: The topmost Deceit Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > The topost deceit of the ego is 'I am you'. > > Dr. Steven C. Hayes Ph.D., Clinical Psychologist > > > Werner If it is a conceptual projection - it is true. It is a mental disorder. Except that there is no ego per se...something psychologists very rarely realize. -geo- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2009 Report Share Posted September 5, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > fewtch > Nisargadatta > Saturday, September 05, 2009 8:21 AM > Re: The topmost Deceit > > > Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > The topost deceit of the ego is 'I am you'. > > > > Dr. Steven C. Hayes Ph.D., Clinical Psychologist > > > > > > Werner > > If it is a conceptual projection - it is true. It is a mental > disorder. I've truly never heard of any cases of folks walking around saying " Hey buddy... did you know I'm you? " ;-). Maybe it happens, I dunno, but it seems doubtful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2009 Report Share Posted September 5, 2009 - fewtch Nisargadatta Saturday, September 05, 2009 9:03 AM Re: The topmost Deceit Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > fewtch > Nisargadatta > Saturday, September 05, 2009 8:21 AM > Re: The topmost Deceit > > > Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > The topost deceit of the ego is 'I am you'. > > > > Dr. Steven C. Hayes Ph.D., Clinical Psychologist > > > > > > Werner > > If it is a conceptual projection - it is true. It is a mental disorder. > Except that there is no ego per se...something psychologists very rarely > realize. > -geo- Of course not... their job, career, life, lies in 'treating the ego', in attempting to make " not-OK-ness " be OK. P.S. I'm excluding 'aware psychologists' such as Dan from this, unless he wants to include himself ;-). -t- And a certain Dr.Sheinberg I know of... -geo- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2009 Report Share Posted September 5, 2009 - fewtch Nisargadatta Saturday, September 05, 2009 9:12 AM Re: The topmost Deceit Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > fewtch > Nisargadatta > Saturday, September 05, 2009 8:21 AM > Re: The topmost Deceit > > > Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > The topost deceit of the ego is 'I am you'. > > > > Dr. Steven C. Hayes Ph.D., Clinical Psychologist > > > > > > Werner > > If it is a conceptual projection - it is true. It is a mental > disorder. I've truly never heard of any cases of folks walking around saying " Hey buddy... did you know I'm you? " ;-). Maybe it happens, I dunno, but it seems doubtful. -t- There are scores of it. Preachers, religious people... It is a kind of a " forced " thing. We are all one in christ blood stuff...and many other alikes....Not to speak of the schizophrenic types...that may exhibit a variety of such disorders. -geo- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2009 Report Share Posted September 5, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > fewtch > Nisargadatta > Saturday, September 05, 2009 9:12 AM > Re: The topmost Deceit > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > fewtch > > Nisargadatta > > Saturday, September 05, 2009 8:21 AM > > Re: The topmost Deceit > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > The topost deceit of the ego is 'I am you'. > > > > > > Dr. Steven C. Hayes Ph.D., Clinical Psychologist > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > If it is a conceptual projection - it is true. It is a mental > > disorder. > > I've truly never heard of any cases of folks walking around saying " Hey > buddy... did you know I'm you? " ;-). Maybe it happens, I dunno, but it seems > doubtful. > -t- > > There are scores of it. Preachers, religious people... It is a kind of a > " forced " thing. Well, yes, that is projection. " God will damn YOU to hell if YOU don't obey " . It is actually a way of saying " I am ME " though, not " I am you " . " I am saved, but YOU are not " . Again, this is affirming the separation of " me " and " you " , as is the projection called " God " (if there's a god " out there " who created me, there must be a ME " in here " ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2009 Report Share Posted September 5, 2009 - fewtch Nisargadatta Saturday, September 05, 2009 9:41 AM Re: The topmost Deceit Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > fewtch > Nisargadatta > Saturday, September 05, 2009 9:21 AM > Re: The topmost Deceit > > > Nisargadatta , " fewtch " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > fewtch > > > Nisargadatta > > > Saturday, September 05, 2009 8:21 AM > > > Re: The topmost Deceit > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > The topost deceit of the ego is 'I am you'. > > > > > > > > Dr. Steven C. Hayes Ph.D., Clinical Psychologist > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > If it is a conceptual projection - it is true. It is a mental > > > disorder. > > > > I've truly never heard of any cases of folks walking around > > saying " Hey buddy... did you know I'm you? " ;-). Maybe it happens, > I > > dunno, but it seems doubtful. > > > > P.S. fwiw, I've never said it either. What I've said is " I am you, *and* > you > are me " . The " and " is critical to pointing to nonconceptual non-division > (if > in fact the words point to anything for anyone). > -t- > > Frankly speaking I don't like very much the statement. It is reminiscent > of > taking A and B and then saying A=B. But this would assume an A and a B > to start off. But I understand what you want to say. > -geo- What I'm saying is that " Everything I perceive is myself " , and " everything you perceive is yourself " . Thus -- if I perceive " you " , I really perceive me. -t- If you stopped here woud be enough to me. -geo- And if you perceive " me " , you really perceive you. -t- This is the part I dont like. You are referring to a " you " ...the same you want to deny. -geo- It can get confusing, these pointers. If it doesn't work for someone, it's all good. -t- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2009 Report Share Posted September 5, 2009 - fewtch Nisargadatta Saturday, September 05, 2009 9:32 AM Re: The topmost Deceit Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > fewtch > Nisargadatta > Saturday, September 05, 2009 9:12 AM > Re: The topmost Deceit > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > fewtch > > Nisargadatta > > Saturday, September 05, 2009 8:21 AM > > Re: The topmost Deceit > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > The topost deceit of the ego is 'I am you'. > > > > > > Dr. Steven C. Hayes Ph.D., Clinical Psychologist > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > If it is a conceptual projection - it is true. It is a mental > > disorder. > > I've truly never heard of any cases of folks walking around saying " Hey > buddy... did you know I'm you? " ;-). Maybe it happens, I dunno, but it > seems > doubtful. > -t- > > There are scores of it. Preachers, religious people... It is a kind of a > " forced " thing. Well, yes, that is projection. " God will damn YOU to hell if YOU don't obey " . It is actually a way of saying " I am ME " though, not " I am you " . " I am saved, but YOU are not " . Again, this is affirming the separation of " me " and " you " , as is the projection called " God " (if there's a god " out there " who created me, there must be a ME " in here " ). -t- Yea..but you snipped the other part: we are all one in jesus thing -geo- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2009 Report Share Posted September 5, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > fewtch > Nisargadatta > Saturday, September 05, 2009 9:41 AM > Re: The topmost Deceit > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > fewtch > > Nisargadatta > > Saturday, September 05, 2009 9:21 AM > > Re: The topmost Deceit > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " fewtch " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > fewtch > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > Saturday, September 05, 2009 8:21 AM > > > > Re: The topmost Deceit > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > The topost deceit of the ego is 'I am you'. > > > > > > > > > > Dr. Steven C. Hayes Ph.D., Clinical Psychologist > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > If it is a conceptual projection - it is true. It is a mental > > > > disorder. > > > > > > I've truly never heard of any cases of folks walking around > > > saying " Hey buddy... did you know I'm you? " ;-). Maybe it happens, > I > > > dunno, but it seems doubtful. > > > > > > > P.S. fwiw, I've never said it either. What I've said is " I am you, *and* > > you > > are me " . The " and " is critical to pointing to nonconceptual non-division > > (if > > in fact the words point to anything for anyone). > > -t- > > > > Frankly speaking I don't like very much the statement. It is reminiscent > > of > > taking A and B and then saying A=B. But this would assume an A and a B > > to start off. But I understand what you want to say. > > -geo- > > What I'm saying is that " Everything I perceive is myself " , and " everything > you perceive is yourself " . > > Thus -- if I perceive " you " , I really perceive me. > -t- > > If you stopped here woud be enough to me. > -geo- OK. That's enough " here " as well. The only reason I didn't stop there, is because people believe when " others " look at them, they're being seen as they are. But really, when another looks at me, they see themselves... and so any judgment they may have of " me " is a judgment of themself. > This is the part I dont like. You are referring to a " you " ...the > same you > want to deny. > -geo- I'm not denying or affirming anything, Geo. Just 'pointers'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2009 Report Share Posted September 5, 2009 - fewtch Nisargadatta Saturday, September 05, 2009 10:12 AM Re: The topmost Deceit Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > fewtch > Nisargadatta > Saturday, September 05, 2009 9:41 AM > Re: The topmost Deceit > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > fewtch > > Nisargadatta > > Saturday, September 05, 2009 9:21 AM > > Re: The topmost Deceit > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " fewtch " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > fewtch > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > Saturday, September 05, 2009 8:21 AM > > > > Re: The topmost Deceit > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > The topost deceit of the ego is 'I am you'. > > > > > > > > > > Dr. Steven C. Hayes Ph.D., Clinical Psychologist > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > If it is a conceptual projection - it is true. It is a mental > > > > disorder. > > > > > > I've truly never heard of any cases of folks walking around > > > saying " Hey buddy... did you know I'm you? " ;-). Maybe it happens, > I > > > dunno, but it seems doubtful. > > > > > > > P.S. fwiw, I've never said it either. What I've said is " I am you, *and* > > you > > are me " . The " and " is critical to pointing to nonconceptual non-division > > (if > > in fact the words point to anything for anyone). > > -t- > > > > Frankly speaking I don't like very much the statement. It is reminiscent > > of > > taking A and B and then saying A=B. But this would assume an A and a B > > to start off. But I understand what you want to say. > > -geo- > > What I'm saying is that " Everything I perceive is myself " , and " everything > you perceive is yourself " . > > Thus -- if I perceive " you " , I really perceive me. > -t- > > If you stopped here woud be enough to me. > -geo- OK. That's enough " here " as well. The only reason I didn't stop there, is because people believe when " others " look at them, they're being seen as they are. But really, when another looks at me, they see themselves... and so any judgment they may have of " me " is a judgment of themself. > This is the part I dont like. You are referring to a " you " ...the > same you > want to deny. > -geo- I'm not denying or affirming anything, Geo. Just 'pointers'. -t- I understand what you mean - but the way it appears seems to carry a contradiction. -geo- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2009 Report Share Posted September 5, 2009 Nisargadatta , " fewtch " <fewtch wrote: > > > This is the part I dont like. You are referring to a " you " ...the > > same you > > want to deny. > > -geo- > > I'm not denying or affirming anything, Geo. Just 'pointers'. P.S. if I point to a bird up in a tree and say " look at that bird! " , I'm not affirming or denying my finger to anyone. The finger isn't important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2009 Report Share Posted September 5, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > fewtch > Nisargadatta > Saturday, September 05, 2009 8:21 AM > Re: The topmost Deceit > > > Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > The topost deceit of the ego is 'I am you'. > > > > Dr. Steven C. Hayes Ph.D., Clinical Psychologist > > > > > > Werner > > If it is a conceptual projection - it is true. It is a mental disorder. > Except that there is no ego per se...something psychologists very rarely > realize. > -geo- > Geo, there is an ego. The ego is a term used to denote the bundle of your past, your personal memories combined with your sepcific likes and dislikes and of all your conditioned responses. They undoubtedly and undeniably do exists and they revolve around your survival instinct - day for day. But there definitely exists no ego as a physical object as your ears or fingers or your stomach do. Listen Geo: DO never deny the existence and the working of that psychological machinery called ego. Never deny it ! Werner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2009 Report Share Posted September 5, 2009 - wwoehr Nisargadatta Saturday, September 05, 2009 11:36 AM Re: The topmost Deceit Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > fewtch > Nisargadatta > Saturday, September 05, 2009 8:21 AM > Re: The topmost Deceit > > > Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > The topost deceit of the ego is 'I am you'. > > > > Dr. Steven C. Hayes Ph.D., Clinical Psychologist > > > > > > Werner > > If it is a conceptual projection - it is true. It is a mental disorder. > Except that there is no ego per se...something psychologists very rarely > realize. > -geo- > Geo, there is an ego. The ego is a term used to denote the bundle of your past, your personal memories combined with your sepcific likes and dislikes and of all your conditioned responses. They undoubtedly and undeniably do exists and they revolve around your survival instinct - day for day. -w- Yes. Correct. The organism behaves as if it had some inner FIXED entity to defend. But it is an everchanging bundle of images and thoughts - NOT FIXED. No entity. -geo- But there definitely exists no ego as a physical object as your ears or fingers or your stomach do. -w- Not even some non-physical ego as some entity. Right. -geo- Listen Geo: DO never deny the existence and the working of that psychological machinery called ego. Never deny it ! Werner I never did deny the image making machinary. It is what makes one feel hurt and offended. -geo- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2009 Report Share Posted September 5, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > I never did deny the image making machinary. It is what makes one feel hurt > and offended. > -geo- That's why I said " everybody sees only themselves " . When others hurt me, they really don't mean it.... because they don't see 'me' at all. They see their own " other half " . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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